Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd

Plenary - Fifth Senedd

12/02/2020

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg
1. Questions to the Minister for Education

Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Joyce Watson. 

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Education, and the first question is from Joyce Watson. 

Gwasanaethau Cwnsela Mewn Ysgolion
School Counselling Services

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau cwnsela mewn ysgolion? OAQ55082

1. Will the Minister provide an update on the provision of school counselling services? OAQ55082

Our most recent statistical release, for the period of 2017-18, shows almost 11,500 children received counselling, comparable to numbers in previous years. In the current year, we also made an additional £626,000—no; yes, £626,000—available to local authorities to support improvements to the service as part of our work on developing a whole-school approach to mental health and well-being.   

Mae ein datganiad ystadegol diweddaraf, ar gyfer y cyfnod 2017-18, yn dangos bod bron i 11,500 o blant wedi cael gwasanaeth cwnsela, sy'n debyg i'r niferoedd yn y blynyddoedd blaenorol. Yn y flwyddyn gyfredol, darparwyd £626,000 yn ychwanegol gennym—na; ie, £626,000—i awdurdodau lleol i gefnogi gwelliannau i'r gwasanaeth fel rhan o'n gwaith ar ddatblygu dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl a lles.

I thank you for that answer, and it really is a good investment in the well-being of young people. But there was a report by the Children, Young People and Education Committee in 2018, and it reviewed school-based counselling and found that the service was indeed making a significant contribution to building an emotionally resilient population of young people. But there was one area of concern that was raised by the children, and that was the sense of being stigmatised about accessing the service by having to leave school lessons in order to do so. So, my question, really, is: that having been said, Minister, what actions have been taken since that report to reduce that stigma around school-based counselling so that children and young people continue to access what, for them, is a much needed service?

Diolch am eich ateb, ac mae'n fuddsoddiad da iawn yn lles pobl ifanc. Ond cafwyd adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg yn 2018 a oedd yn adolygu cwnsela yn yr ysgol, a chanfu fod y gwasanaeth yn wir yn gwneud cyfraniad sylweddol tuag at feithrin poblogaeth o bobl ifanc wydn yn emosiynol. Ond nodwyd un maes pryder gan y plant, sef yr ymdeimlad o gael eich difrïo am ddefnyddio’r gwasanaeth gan fod yn rhaid gadael gwersi ysgol er mwyn gwneud hynny. Felly, fy nghwestiwn, mewn gwirionedd, yw: yng ngoleuni hynny, Weinidog, pa gamau a gymerwyd ers yr adroddiad hwnnw i leihau’r stigma ynghylch cwnsela yn yr ysgol fel bod plant a phobl ifanc yn parhau i gael mynediad at y gwasanaeth hwn y maent ei angen yn fawr?

Thank you, Joyce. Well, since the publication of that report, a great deal of work has been undertaken and continues to be driven forward. For example, by making all aware of the availability of both counselling provided in schools, in community-based settings, and, indeed, online, in a virtual world, our revised counselling toolkit, which will be published next month, will, I believe, help reduce stigma and normalise the use of counselling services. Our draft whole-school framework guidance, which will be formally consulted on in the next few weeks, also highlights the need for schools to ensure that spaces provided for school-based counselling and other well-being work should avoid having any such space labelled, so that we can avoid such stigma. 

Of course, as we move towards the delivery of our new curriculum, our health and well-being area of learning and experience will encourage children to take better care of both their physical and their mental health, and encourage help-seeking behaviours as an acceptable response when children feel upset or distressed. 

Diolch, Joyce. Wel, ers cyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwnnw, mae llawer iawn o waith wedi'i wneud ac yn parhau i fynd rhagddo. Er enghraifft, drwy sicrhau bod pawb yn ymwybodol o argaeledd gwasanaethau cwnsela a ddarperir mewn ysgolion, mewn lleoliadau cymunedol, ac yn wir, ar-lein, mewn byd rhithwir, credaf y bydd ein pecyn cymorth cwnsela diwygiedig, a fydd yn cael ei gyhoeddi y mis nesaf, yn helpu i leihau stigma a normaleiddio'r defnydd o wasanaethau cwnsela. Mae ein canllawiau fframwaith ysgol gyfan drafft, a fydd yn destun ymgynghori ffurfiol yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf, hefyd yn tynnu sylw at yr angen i ysgolion sicrhau y dylid osgoi labelu lleoedd a ddarperir ar gyfer cwnsela yn yr ysgol, a gwaith llesiant arall, fel y gallwn osgoi stigma o'r fath.

Wrth gwrs, wrth i ni symud tuag at gyflwyno ein cwricwlwm newydd, bydd ein meysydd dysgu a phrofiad iechyd a lles yn annog plant i ofalu am eu hiechyd corfforol a meddyliol, ac yn annog ymddygiad sy'n ceisio cymorth fel ymateb derbyniol pan fydd plant yn teimlo'n boenus neu’n ofidus.

Some of the schools in my region quite rightly use part of their pupil development grant to help support on-site school counselling services for pupils. What feedback have you had from schools who don't get high levels of PDG, and have seen cuts to their core funding, about the difficulties they might have in offering counselling on site?

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Mae rhai o'r ysgolion yn fy rhanbarth, yn gwbl briodol, yn defnyddio rhan o'u grant datblygu disgyblion i helpu i gefnogi gwasanaethau cwnsela ysgolion ar y safle i ddisgyblion. Pa adborth a gawsoch gan ysgolion nad ydynt yn cael lefelau uchel o grant datblygu disgyblion, ac sydd wedi cael toriadau i'w cyllid craidd, ynghylch yr anawsterau y gallant eu hwynebu wrth gynnig cwnsela ar y safle?

Well, Suzy, as I have just answered to Joyce Watson, we are making over £600,000 extra available in this financial year to support counselling services, and, in the new financial year, additional resources will also be made available to look to extend support services for children—traditional counselling, but perhaps group-based approaches for younger children, to extend the help available to all schools. 

Wel, Suzy, fel rwyf newydd ddweud yn fy ateb i Joyce Watson, rydym yn sicrhau bod dros £600,000 yn ychwanegol ar gael yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon i gefnogi gwasanaethau cwnsela, ac yn y flwyddyn ariannol newydd, bydd adnoddau ychwanegol ar gael hefyd i geisio cynyddu gwasanaethau cymorth i blant—cwnsela traddodiadol, ond efallai dulliau grŵp ar gyfer plant iau, i gynyddu faint o gymorth sydd ar gael i bob ysgol.

Minister, in my constituency—I suppose I declare an interest, first of all, as a trustee of Eye to Eye, who provide some of the youth counselling service in my constituency—the work that is done is really in response to the fact that there are so many issues that are arising amongst young people. And the counselling service and the work that is done, I think, only re-emphasises to all of us how important that work is. What I do wonder is: across Wales, what work is being done to actually collate the overall statistics for the whole of Wales to get a picture of what is happening across Wales in respect of this incredibly important service?

Weinidog, yn fy etholaeth i—mae’n debyg fy mod yn datgan buddiant, yn gyntaf oll, fel un o ymddiriedolwyr Eye to Eye, sy'n darparu peth o'r gwasanaeth cwnsela ieuenctid yn fy etholaeth—mae’r gwaith a wneir yn ymateb i'r ffaith bod cymaint o faterion yn codi ymhlith pobl ifanc. A chredaf fod y gwasanaeth cwnsela a'r gwaith a wneir yn ailbwysleisio i bob un ohonom pa mor bwysig yw'r gwaith hwnnw. Ond tybed: ledled Cymru, pa waith sy'n mynd rhagddo i goladu'r ystadegau cyffredinol ar gyfer Cymru gyfan i gael darlun o'r hyn sy'n digwydd ledled Cymru mewn perthynas â'r gwasanaeth hynod bwysig hwn?

You're right, Mick: we need to ensure that any Government investment and policy response to promoting children's good mental health and well-being needs to be on the basis of evidence. And there are a variety of ways in which we do that. We have the formal statistics that are collated as a part of the formal counselling service. Most recently, in reporting back to the 'Mind over matter' stakeholder group, representatives of the Association of Directors of Education in Wales had canvassed each local authority and had asked for details of services across Wales that both local authorities and schools were employing. And, of course, we also hear from young people themselves, via our support for the healthy schools questionnaire that goes out to young people, where they themselves have an opportunity to express how they're feeling about their own mental health and well-being. So, we use a variety of sources and data collection points to establish a firm evidence base for investment in this important area.

Rydych yn llygad eich lle, Mick; mae angen inni sicrhau bod angen i unrhyw fuddsoddiad ac ymateb polisi gan y Llywodraeth i hyrwyddo iechyd meddwl a lles da ymhlith plant fod yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth. Ac mae nifer o ffyrdd rydym yn gwneud hynny. Mae gennym yr ystadegau ffurfiol sy'n cael eu coladu fel rhan o'r gwasanaeth cwnsela ffurfiol. Yn fwyaf diweddar, wrth adrodd yn ôl i grŵp rhanddeiliaid 'Cadernid Meddwl', canfasiodd cynrychiolwyr Cymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Addysg Cymru bob awdurdod lleol i ofyn am fanylion gwasanaethau roedd awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion yn eu defnyddio ledled Cymru. Ac wrth gwrs, rydym hefyd yn clywed gan bobl ifanc eu hunain, drwy ein cefnogaeth i'r holiadur ysgolion iach a roddir i bobl ifanc, lle maent yn cael cyfle i fynegi sut y maent yn teimlo am eu hiechyd meddwl a'u lles eu hunain. Felly, rydym yn defnyddio amrywiaeth o ffynonellau a phwyntiau casglu data i sefydlu sylfaen dystiolaeth gadarn ar gyfer buddsoddi yn y maes pwysig hwn.

13:35
Addysg ôl-16
Post-16 Education

2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ddarparu addysg ôl-16 i ddysgwyr ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni? OAQ55084

2. Will the Minister provide an update on the delivery of post-16 education for learners in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney? OAQ55084

Post-16 delivery in Wales supports access to a range of programmes that support lifelong learning. Whether it's upskilling to access employment, a first step into post-16, or a return to learning, delivery serves to improve economic prosperity and to ensure that people in all areas are equipped for their futures.

Mae darpariaeth ôl-16 yng Nghymru yn cefnogi mynediad at ystod o raglenni sy'n cefnogi dysgu gydol oes. Boed yn uwchsgilio i gael mynediad at gyflogaeth, y cam cyntaf i’r byd ôl-16, neu ddychwelyd at ddysgu, mae darpariaeth yn gwella ffyniant economaidd ac yn sicrhau bod pobl ym mhob maes wedi'u harfogi ar gyfer eu dyfodol.

Thank you, Minister. And I'm sure you'll want to join me in congratulating Merthyr College on being nominated for the TES further education college of the year award 2020. The nomination recognises outstanding achievements, continually improving learner outcomes, and their overall contribution to training for learners. And, as our First Minister said on his visit to the college last autumn, it is one of the great success stories of devolution. However, in spite of such success, the future of their funding arrangements remains a concern, especially around our departure from the European Union. Now I believe such funding has had a massive impact on the quality of the learning experience, as the college has been able to provide improved learner retention, completion rates, and contributed to a year-on-year increase in overall success rates. So, are you yet able to give any assurance that EU moneys currently being used to support learners at risk of dropping out of college—for example, on the Inspire to Achieve scheme—will be factored into the regional investment in Wales, and is such valuable learning secure as we leave the EU?

Diolch, Weinidog. Ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn awyddus i ymuno â mi i longyfarch Coleg Merthyr Tudful ar gael eu henwebu ar gyfer gwobr coleg addysg bellach y flwyddyn y Times Educational Supplement 2020. Mae'r enwebiad yn cydnabod cyflawniadau rhagorol, canlyniadau dysgwyr sy'n gwella'n barhaus, a'u cyfraniad cyffredinol at hyfforddiant i ddysgwyr. Ac fel y dywedodd ein Prif Weinidog wrth ymweld â'r coleg yn yr hydref y llynedd, mae'n un o’r enghreifftiau gwych o lwyddiant datganoli. Fodd bynnag, er gwaethaf llwyddiant o'r fath, mae dyfodol eu trefniadau cyllido yn parhau i beri pryder, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â’n hymadawiad â'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Nawr, credaf fod cyllid o'r fath wedi cael effaith enfawr ar ansawdd y profiad dysgu, gan fod y coleg wedi gallu sicrhau gwell cyfraddau cadw dysgwyr, cyfraddau cwblhau, ac wedi cyfrannu at gynnydd o flwyddyn i flwyddyn o ran cyfraddau llwyddiant cyffredinol. Felly, a allwch roi unrhyw sicrwydd eto y bydd arian yr UE sy'n cael ei ddefnyddio ar hyn o bryd i gynorthwyo dysgwyr sydd mewn perygl o adael coleg—er enghraifft, y cynllun Ysbrydoli i Gyflawni—yn cael ei ystyried fel rhan o'r buddsoddiad rhanbarthol yng Nghymru, ac a yw dysgu mor werthfawr yn ddiogel wrth i ni adael yr UE?

Well, Presiding Officer, I'm immensely proud of the success and the achievements of the FE sector in Wales. The fact that nominations have been made for six colleges, in total, from Wales in the TES 2020 awards is a testament to the good work that is going on across the sector. And I'd like to wish Merthyr College, and indeed other colleges that are nominated, all the very best when those awards take place on 20 March. The Member is right to draw attention to the issue of the successful use of EU funds by the FE sector. I wish I could give the Member some reassurance as to the continuation of those funding streams. Of course, that will be dependent on our calls as a Government for replacement funding from the UK Government to be met. In the meantime, we're continuing to work closely and productively with our stakeholders across Wales to put in place successor arrangements for Wales. And an important part of that is our regional investment for Wales's steering group, chaired by Huw Irranca-Davies, of which FE colleges are a part. And that forms an important part of that work, as we look to the future, now, to protect those particular funding streams and those successful programmes.

Wel, Lywydd, rwy'n hynod falch o lwyddiant a chyflawniadau'r sector addysg bellach yng Nghymru. Mae'r ffaith bod chwe choleg i gyd o Gymru wedi’u henwebu yng ngwobrau'r Times Educational Supplement 2020 yn dyst i'r gwaith da sy'n mynd rhagddo ar draws y sector. A hoffwn ddymuno’n dda i Goleg Merthyr Tudful, ac yn wir, i’r colegau eraill sydd wedi’u henwebu, pan gynhelir y gwobrau hynny ar 20 Mawrth. Mae'r Aelod yn iawn i dynnu sylw at ddefnydd llwyddiannus o gyllid yr UE gan y sector addysg bellach. Hoffwn pe gallwn roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd i'r Aelod ynghylch parhad y ffrydiau cyllido hynny. Wrth gwrs, bydd hynny'n ddibynnol ar Lywodraeth y DU yn ateb ein galwadau fel Llywodraeth am gyllid newydd. Yn y cyfamser, rydym yn parhau i weithio'n agos ac yn gynhyrchiol gyda'n rhanddeiliaid ledled Cymru, i roi trefniadau olyniaeth ar waith ar gyfer Cymru. A rhan bwysig o hynny yw grŵp llywio buddsoddi rhanbarthol Cymru, dan gadeiryddiaeth Huw Irranca-Davies, y mae colegau addysg bellach yn rhan ohono. Ac mae hynny'n rhan bwysig o'r gwaith hwnnw, wrth inni edrych tua'r dyfodol yn awr, i amddiffyn y ffrydiau cyllido penodol hynny, a'r rhaglenni llwyddiannus hynny.

Again, with Dawn Bowden, I want to say the same thing—Merthyr Tydfil College is one of the top-performing further education colleges in Wales. And will you join me, Minister, in welcoming the news that Merthyr college is shortlisted for the TES further education college of the year award for 2020, which seeks to recognise and reward the achievement of the very best further education providers in the United Kingdom? Equally, the teachers and students must be congratulated, who have worked very hard to make sure that this sort of teaching and training rolls out in our other schools in the region. Thank you.

Unwaith eto, gyda Dawn Bowden, hoffwn ddweud yr un peth—mae Coleg Merthyr Tudful yn un o'r colegau addysg bellach sy'n perfformio orau yng Nghymru. Ac a wnewch chi ymuno â mi, Weinidog, i groesawu’r newyddion fod Coleg Merthyr Tudful ar restr fer gwobr coleg addysg bellach y flwyddyn y Times Educational Supplement 2020, sy’n ceisio cydnabod a gwobrwyo cyflawniad y colegau addysg bellach gorau yn y Deyrnas Unedig? Yn yr un modd, mae’n rhaid llongyfarch yr athrawon a'r myfyrwyr sydd wedi gweithio'n galed iawn i sicrhau bod y math hwn o addysgu a hyfforddi yn cael ei ddarparu yn ein hysgolion eraill yn y rhanbarth. Diolch.

Presiding Officer, if the Member had missed it the first time around, I am incredibly pleased that Merthyr college finds itself subject to such nominations. And, as I said in my previous answer, I wish them—as well as Gower College, Bridgend College, Cardiff and Vale College, and Dolgellau construction and engineering team from the Llandrillo Menai Group—all the very best in those awards.

Lywydd, rhag ofn i’r Aelod fethu hyn y tro cyntaf, rwy'n hynod falch fod Coleg Merthyr Tudful yn destun enwebiadau o'r fath. Ac fel y dywedais yn fy ateb blaenorol, rwy'n dymuno'n dda iddynt—yn ogystal â Choleg Gŵyr, Coleg Penybont, Coleg Caerdydd a Fro, a thîm adeiladu a pheirianneg Dolgellau o Grŵp Menai Llandrillo—yn y gwobrau hynny.

Does the Minister believe that the advantages of consolidation of post-16 education at Merthyr Tydfil College outweigh any reduction in choice or increase in travel times for those students who, in the past, have attended school sixth forms?  

A yw'r Gweinidog yn credu bod manteision cydgrynhoi addysg ôl-16 yng Ngholeg Merthyr Tudful yn bwysicach nag unrhyw leihad yn y dewis neu gynnydd yn yr amseroedd teithio ar gyfer y myfyrwyr hynny sydd, yn y gorffennol, wedi mynychu'r chweched dosbarth mewn ysgolion?

13:40

The organisation of post-16 education is a matter for local areas. I believe in a mixed economy. I believe that both our sixth forms and our FE colleges provide really important opportunities for our young people. Of course, greater co-ordination across the post-16 sector and the ability for that sector to meet all the education and training needs of our local population form the bedrock of our post-compulsory education and training proposals and my determination to establish a commission for tertiary education and research. 

Mae trefniadaeth addysg ôl-16 yn fater i ardaloedd lleol. Rwy'n credu mewn economi gymysg. Credaf fod ein chweched dosbarth a'n colegau addysg bellach yn darparu cyfleoedd pwysig iawn i'n pobl ifanc. Wrth gwrs, mae gwell cydgysylltedd ar draws y sector ôl-16 a'r gallu i'r sector hwnnw ddiwallu holl anghenion addysg a hyfforddiant ein poblogaeth leol yn sylfaen i’n cynigion addysg a hyfforddiant ôl-orfodol a fy mhenderfyniad i sefydlu comisiwn ar gyfer ymchwil ac addysg drydyddol.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian. 

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Rydym ni'n ymwybodol bod recriwtio a chadw athrawon yn her yng Nghymru, ac mewn gwledydd eraill hefyd, yn wir, a bod yna nifer o resymau am hyn, a bod angen taclo'r broblem mewn sawl ffordd. Mae ystadegau Llywodraeth Cymru'n dangos bod 40 y cant yn llai na'r targed sydd wedi ei osod ar gyfer hyfforddeion ar gyfer y sector uwchradd, er enghraifft, ac mae adroddiadau diweddaraf y Cyngor Gweithlu Addysg yn dangos bod yna fwy o gymorthyddion nag o athrawon yn ein hysgolion ni erbyn hyn. Rŵan, dwi'n gwybod eich bod chi'n ymwybodol iawn o'r broblem yma, sydd wedi cael ei gwyntyllu dros y blynyddoedd, yn wir, yn y Siambr yma. Pa mor ffyddiog ydych chi y gwelwn ni'r sefyllfa yma yn gwella dros y blynyddoedd nesaf? 

Thank you, Llywydd. We are aware that recruitment and retention of teachers is a challenge in Wales, and in other nations too, and there are a number of reasons behind this, and we need to tackle the problem in a number of different ways. Welsh Government statistics show that 40 per cent less than the target set for trainees in the secondary sector are in place, for example, and recent reports by the Education Workforce Council demonstrate that there are more assistants than teachers in our schools now. Now, I know that you're highly aware of this problem, which has been discussed over a period of years in this Chamber, so, how confident are you that we will see this situation improving over the next few years?

Well, Siân, you're absolutely right. This is an issue that is common to education systems, actually, across the globe and was the subject of much debate when we hosted the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory conference here in Cardiff back in the autumn. There is no one single thing that we can do to address these issues, but to outline some of the actions this Government is currently taking, we have agreed a new approach to promoting teaching as a career with the Education Workforce Council and hopefully—not long now—Members will be able to see adverts on a variety of platforms highlighting the important and the rewarding career that teaching is.

We are looking at new ways in which we can support qualification for teachers. So, the Member will be aware of the recent accreditation of the Open University scheme to train teachers. We're looking particularly there to attract career changers—those people for whom perhaps a traditional way of qualification is not appropriate, but have a desire and a passion to teach. The Member will also be aware of our recent scheme, for instance, to allow Welsh-medium teachers in the primary sector, who perhaps have not been able to find work in that particular sector, to convert to be able to use their skills and their passion in the secondary sector.

So, there are a variety of actions this Government is taking to address the issue of teacher recruitment. But, of course, once they are recruited into the profession, we also have to work harder to maintain them in the profession and we're taking steps in that regard also. 

Wel, Siân, rydych yn llygad eich lle. Mae hwn yn fater sy'n gyffredin i systemau addysg ledled y byd mewn gwirionedd, a bu’n destun cryn ddadlau pan gynaliasom gynhadledd yr Atlantic Rim Collaboratory yma yng Nghaerdydd yn ôl yn yr hydref. Nid oes unrhyw beth unigol y gallwn ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn, ond i amlinellu rhai o’r camau y mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn eu cymryd ar hyn o bryd, rydym wedi cytuno ar ddull newydd o hyrwyddo addysgu fel gyrfa gyda Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg a gobeithio—cyn bo hir—y bydd yr Aelodau'n gallu gweld hysbysebion ar amrywiaeth o blatfformau a fydd yn tynnu sylw at addysgu fel gyrfa bwysig a gwerth chweil.

Rydym yn edrych ar ffyrdd newydd y gallwn gefnogi cymwysterau i athrawon. Felly, bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol o achrediad diweddar cynllun y Brifysgol Agored i hyfforddi athrawon. Rydym yn edrych yn benodol yno ar ddenu pobl sy'n newid gyrfa—y bobl nad yw cymhwyso mewn ffordd draddodiadol yn briodol iddynt, efallai, ond sydd ag awydd a dyhead i addysgu. Bydd yr Aelod hefyd yn ymwybodol o'n cynllun diweddar, er enghraifft, i ganiatáu i athrawon cyfrwng Cymraeg yn y sector cynradd nad ydynt efallai wedi gallu dod o hyd i waith yn y sector penodol hwnnw, i newid er mwyn gallu defnyddio eu sgiliau a’u hangerdd yn y sector uwchradd.

Felly, mae nifer o gamau y mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â recriwtio athrawon. Ond wrth gwrs, ar ôl iddynt gael eu recriwtio i'r proffesiwn, mae'n rhaid inni hefyd weithio'n galetach i'w cadw yn y proffesiwn ac rydym yn rhoi camau ar waith yn hynny o beth hefyd.

Diolch yn fawr, a dwi'n edrych ymlaen at weld ffrwyth y gwaith yna, achos yr athrawon ydy'r adnodd mwyaf gwerthfawr sydd gennym ni yn ein hysgolion, wrth gwrs. 

O gofio'r strategaeth miliwn o siaradwyr, a phwysigrwydd addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg i lwyddiant y nod hwnnw, mae recriwtio athrawon sy'n dysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn bryder penodol, onid ydy? Mae ystadegau'r bwletin ystadegol yn dangos mai dim ond 17.5 y cant o'r myfyrwyr ym mlwyddyn gyntaf addysg gychwynnol athrawon yn 2017-18 oedd yn hyfforddi i addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, efo'r niferoedd yn weddol gyfartal rhwng y sectorau cynradd ac uwchradd, yn digwydd bod.

Felly, dwi'n croesawu'n fawr yr hyn roeddwn yn ei ddarllen yn y wasg yr wythnos diwethaf, sef ei bod hi'n fwriad gennych chi a gan Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod partneriaid yn gweithio tuag at sicrhau y dylai 30 y cant o'r rhai sy'n cael eu recriwtio i bob rhaglen hyfforddiant cychwynnol athrawon fod yn athrawon fydd yn gallu addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Felly, prynhawn yma, hoffwn i jest gael ychydig bach mwy o wybodaeth am y polisi yma. Wnewch chi ymhelaethu ar eich rhesymau chi dros osod y targed, a pham ydych chi'n ystyried bod gosod y targed yma'n ffordd effeithiol o gynyddu sgiliau Cymraeg o fewn y gweithlu addysg?

Thank you very much, and I do look forward to seeing the upshot of that work, because the teachers are our most important, valuable asset in our schools, of course.

Given the million Welsh speakers strategy and the importance of Welsh-medium education to the success of that particular aim, the recruitment of teachers who can teach through the medium of Welsh is a specific concern, isn't it? Statistics from the statistical bulletin show that only 17.5 per cent of students in their first year of initial teacher training in 2017-18 were training to teach through the medium of Welsh, with the numbers relatively equal between the primary and secondary sectors, as it happens.

So, I do warmly welcome what I read in the press last week, namely that it is your intention, and the Welsh Government's intention, to ensure that partners do work towards ensuring that 30 per cent of those recruited to all initial teacher training programmes should be teachers who would be able to teach through the medium of Welsh. So, this afternoon, I would just like a little more information on this policy. Will you expand upon your rationale for setting that target, and why do you think that setting this target is an effective way of increasing Welsh language skills within the education workforce?

13:45

Well, Siân, you're absolutely right: recruiting more Welsh-medium teachers is a vital component of our aim to reach 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050. The requirement for teacher training providers to work towards training 30 per cent of teachers to teach through the medium of Welsh is an important instruction to them, and the Education Workforce Council, of our intention to be able to ensure that we have the right staff to respond to that target, but also to respond to the parents of Wales, who increasingly are looking to choose a Welsh-medium education for their children, and to respond positively to that. It's not the only initiative, as I referred to, but I'm grateful for the Member's support for that, and indeed the various supportive comments from Cymdeithas yr Iaith, for instance, as an important indication of this Government's intention in this regard.

Wel, Siân, rydych yn llygad eich lle: mae recriwtio mwy o athrawon cyfrwng Cymraeg yn rhan hanfodol o'n nod i gyrraedd 1 filiwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg erbyn 2050. Mae'r gofyniad i ddarparwyr hyfforddiant athrawon weithio tuag at hyfforddi 30 y cant o athrawon i addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn gyfarwyddyd pwysig iddynt, a Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg, o ran ein bwriad i allu sicrhau bod gennym y staff iawn i ymateb i'r targed hwnnw, ond hefyd i ymateb i rieni Cymru, sy'n fwyfwy awyddus i ddewis addysg Gymraeg i'w plant, ac i ymateb yn gadarnhaol i hynny. Nid hon yw'r unig fenter, fel y nodais, ond rwy'n ddiolchgar am gefnogaeth yr Aelod iddi, ac yn wir, yr amrywiol sylwadau cefnogol gan Gymdeithas yr Iaith, er enghraifft, fel arwydd pwysig o fwriad y Llywodraeth hon yn hyn o beth.

Yn sicr, mi ydyn ni'n falch o weld y targedau yma'n cael eu gosod. Mae'n rhywbeth rydym ni wedi bod yn galw amdano fo ers tro, wrth gwrs, ac rydym ni'n ei weld o fel cam positif dros ben. Hoffwn i sicrwydd gennych chi y bydd monitro cyflawniad yn erbyn y targed yn digwydd. Efallai y medrwch chi gadarnhau heddiw yma y bydd gennych chi system i fonitro cynnydd fel bod y targed yn un gwirioneddol ystyrlon. Rydych chi wedi gosod y targed yma rŵan ar gyfer un maes penodol, sef darpar athrawon, ac mae'n glir fod Comisiynydd y Gymraeg, ac eraill, yn wir, yn credu fod hwn—beth rydych chi wedi'i wneud efo darpar athrawon—yn gynsail da ar gyfer meysydd eraill. Ydych chi'n gallu sôn y prynhawn yma ynglŷn â lledaenu'r arfer o osod targedau er mwyn cynyddu sgiliau dwyieithog? Ydych chi o blaid, er enghraifft, lledaenu'r arfer yma o osod targedau ar gyfer gweithlu'r dyfodol mewn meysydd fel iechyd a gofal, ac eraill o fewn eich portffolio chi o ran addysg bellach ac uwch?

Certainly, we are pleased to see these targets being put in place. It's something that we've been calling for for some time, and we do see it as a positive step forward. I would like an assurance from you that you will be monitoring delivery against that target. Perhaps you can confirm today that you will have a system to monitor progress so that the target is truly meaningful. You have now set this target for one specific area, namely prospective teachers, and it's clear that the Welsh Language Commissioner and others believe that what you have done with prospective teachers is a good precedent for other areas. So, can you tell us this afternoon about expanding this practice of setting targets in order to enhance bilingual skills? Are you in favour, for example, of rolling out this practice of setting targets for the future workforce in areas such as health and care, and other areas within your portfolio in terms of HE and FE?

Well, Presiding Officer, I'm not in charge of health and care, but I think what's important for me is that if we are to respond, as I said, proactively to the demand that there is out there for Welsh-medium education, if we're to meet that target, then the first important element is our teaching workforce. The Member joined me and other Members recently at the event organised by our coleg cenedlaethol. We are working collectively with them and our FE partners to increase the availability of Welsh-medium FE tuition, building on the very real success the coleg has had in terms of expanding Welsh-medium tuition in the HE sector.

It is absolutely an important principle to me that we give children and young people in Wales a Welsh language continuum, from our childcare offer through to access to our nursery schools via the mudiad, into Welsh-medium schooling, and then for them to be able to continue to develop and use their language skills in both an FE and an HE setting wherever possible.

We will continue to look to ensure, in other aspects of education workforce, that we address the linguistic needs of staff, whether that be, for instance, our teaching assistants, our nursery assistants in the mudiad, or other professionals who work with our children and young people. It's really important from an equity point of view that we continue to work as hard as we can to address those linguistic skills of professionals who work alongside our children and young people.

Wel, Lywydd, nid fi sy'n gyfrifol am iechyd a gofal, ond credaf mai'r hyn sy'n bwysig i mi yw, os ydym am ymateb, fel y dywedais, yn rhagweithiol i'r galw am addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg, os ydym am gyrraedd y targed hwnnw, yr elfen bwysig gyntaf yw ein gweithlu addysgu. Ymunodd yr Aelod â mi ac Aelodau eraill yn ddiweddar yn y digwyddiad a drefnwyd gan ein coleg cenedlaethol. Rydym yn gweithio ar y cyd â hwy a'n partneriaid addysg bellach i gynyddu argaeledd hyfforddiant addysg bellach cyfrwng Cymraeg, gan adeiladu ar y llwyddiant real iawn y mae'r coleg wedi'i gael yn ehangu hyfforddiant cyfrwng Cymraeg yn y sector addysg uwch.

Mae'n egwyddor hollol bwysig i mi ein bod yn rhoi continwwm iaith Gymraeg i blant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru, o'n cynnig gofal plant hyd at fynediad at ein hysgolion meithrin drwy'r mudiad, i addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg, ac yna iddynt allu parhau i ddatblygu a defnyddio eu sgiliau iaith mewn lleoliadau addysg bellach ac addysg uwch lle bynnag y bo modd.

Byddwn yn parhau i geisio sicrhau, mewn agweddau eraill ar y gweithlu addysg, ein bod yn mynd i'r afael ag anghenion ieithyddol staff, boed hynny'n golygu, er enghraifft, ein cynorthwywyr addysgu, ein cynorthwywyr meithrin yn y mudiad, neu weithwyr proffesiynol eraill sy'n gweithio gyda'n plant a'n pobl ifanc. Mae'n bwysig iawn o safbwynt tegwch ein bod yn parhau i weithio mor galed ag y gallwn i fynd i'r afael â sgiliau ieithyddol gweithwyr proffesiynol sy'n gweithio ochr yn ochr â'n plant a'n pobl ifanc.

Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Mohammad Asghar.

Conservative spokesperson, Mohammad Asghar. 

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Last month, headteachers in Wales called on the Welsh Government to revise its draft budget proposals for education. The National Association of Headteachers Cymru said that the proposed expenditure on education set out so far does not come close to repairing the damage done by years of Welsh Government underfunding. Schools are in deficit positions, struggling to retain good teachers and support staff, and they could face difficulties in delivering the new curriculum. Minister, why have you refused to commit to spending more money directly on schools, and will you agree to ring fence the consequentials arising from the UK Government's announcement of additional spending on primary schools in England for education in Wales?

Diolch, Lywydd. Y mis diwethaf, bu penaethiaid yng Nghymru yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i adolygu ei chynigion cyllidebol drafft ar gyfer addysg. Dywedodd Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Prifathrawon Cymru nad yw'r gwariant arfaethedig ar addysg a nodwyd hyd yma yn dod yn agos at unioni'r niwed a wnaed gan flynyddoedd o danariannu gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae ysgolion mewn diffyg ariannol, yn ei chael hi'n anodd cadw staff cymorth ac athrawon da, a gallent wynebu anawsterau wrth gyflwyno'r cwricwlwm newydd. Weinidog, pam eich bod wedi gwrthod ymrwymo i wario mwy o arian yn uniongyrchol ar ysgolion, ac a wnewch chi gytuno i glustnodi'r cyllid canlyniadol sy'n deillio o gyhoeddiad Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â gwariant ychwanegol ar ysgolion cynradd yn Lloegr ar gyfer addysg yng Nghymru?

13:50

In all my dealings with headteachers' unions and with teachers' unions, Oscar, I have to say their first concern is the inability of your Government in Westminster to give this Government an appropriate level of public expenditure. One very real example, Presiding Officer: we received no consequential this year to pay for the teachers' pay rise. We were short-changed again this year to pay for teachers' pensions, which is not a devolved matter. It was the finance Minister, working across this Government, that had to fund the shortfall, and that's money that could have been spent on other aspects of education, but we've had to find that money for the non-devolved area of teachers' pensions to address the shortfall.

Let me be absolutely clear to the Member, we have worked hard to give Welsh local government, who are the main funders of our education system, the best possible settlement, as well as significantly increasing the amounts of resources that are in the education main expenditure group. I could do so much more if his Government would give Wales a fairer deal.

Yn fy holl ymwneud ag undebau penaethiaid ac undebau athrawon, Oscar, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud mai eu pryder cyntaf yw anallu eich Llywodraeth yn San Steffan i roi lefel briodol o wariant cyhoeddus i'r Llywodraeth hon. Un enghraifft real iawn, Lywydd: ni chawsom unrhyw gyllid canlyniadol eleni i dalu am godiad cyflog athrawon. Ni chawsom ddigon o arian eto eleni i dalu am bensiynau athrawon, nad yw'n fater datganoledig. Bu'n rhaid i'r Gweinidog cyllid, gan weithio ar draws y Llywodraeth hon, ariannu'r diffyg, ac roedd hwnnw'n arian y gellid bod wedi'i wario ar agwedd arall ar addysg, ond rydym wedi gorfod dod o hyd i'r arian hwnnw i fynd i'r afael â'r diffyg ym maes pensiynau athrawon nad yw wedi'i ddatganoli.

Gadewch i mi ddweud yn gwbl glir wrth yr Aelod, rydym wedi gweithio'n galed i roi'r setliad gorau posibl i lywodraeth leol Cymru, sef prif gyllidwyr ein system addysg, yn ogystal â chynyddu'n sylweddol faint o adnoddau sydd ym mhrif grŵp gwariant addysg. Gallwn wneud cymaint yn rhagor pe bai ei Lywodraeth yn rhoi bargen decach i Gymru.

Thank you for that answer. [Laughter.] NAHT actually blamed you, not us.

Minister, you recently released a progress report on the £36 million grant made available to reduce infant class sizes in Wales. Under the scheme, funding is provided for new school staff or extra school rooms for pupils aged from four to seven years old. However, most schools that appointed teachers to cut infant class sizes say that they will not be able to keep them when this grant ends. Given that reducing class sizes is, in your words,

'a key strand of our national mission to raise standards and extend opportunities',

how do you intend to further reduce class sizes in Wales now?

Diolch am eich ateb. [Chwerthin.] Roedd Cymdeithas Genedlaethol y Prifathrawon yn eich beio chi, nid ni.

Weinidog, yn ddiweddar, fe gyhoeddoch chi adroddiad cynnydd ar y grant o £36 miliwn a ddarparwyd i leihau maint dosbarthiadau babanod yng Nghymru. O dan y cynllun, darperir cyllid ar gyfer staff ysgol newydd neu ystafelloedd ysgol ychwanegol ar gyfer disgyblion rhwng pedair a saith oed. Fodd bynnag, dywed y rhan fwyaf o ysgolion a benododd athrawon i dorri maint dosbarthiadau babanod na fyddant yn gallu eu cadw pan ddaw'r grant hwn i ben. O ystyried bod lleihau maint dosbarthiadau, yn eich geiriau chi,

'yn elfen allweddol o genhadaeth ein cenedl i godi safonau a chreu cyfleoedd i’n holl bobl ifanc',

sut rydych yn bwriadu lleihau maint dosbarthiadau yng Nghymru ymhellach yn awr?

First of all, Presiding Officer, I don't want the Member's thanks for answering his question, what would be more useful to me is if he did something about it and had a conversation with his Westminster colleagues.

With regard to the class sizes reduction fund that we have made available to schools, I'm glad that the Member recognises that, first of all, small class sizes can be really beneficial to teachers and children. He is absolutely right: in the report, teachers have expressed their concern about what will happen once that grant comes to an end. That grant is safe until the end of this particular session of this Senedd. It'll be for the new Senedd to look at the evidence and to listen to teachers and parents about the importance of that grant, and I would hope to see it continue.

Yn gyntaf oll, Lywydd, nid oes arnaf eisiau diolch gan yr Aelod am ateb ei gwestiwn; yr hyn a fyddai’n fwy defnyddiol i mi yw pe bai’n gwneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch ac yn cael sgwrs gyda’i gymheiriaid yn San Steffan.

O ran y gronfa lleihau maint dosbarthiadau rydym wedi'i darparu i ysgolion, rwy'n falch fod yr Aelod yn cydnabod y gall maint dosbarthiadau bach, yn gyntaf oll, fod o fudd mawr i athrawon a phlant. Mae'n llygad ei le: yn yr adroddiad, mae athrawon wedi mynegi eu pryder ynghylch yr hyn a fydd yn digwydd pan ddaw'r grant hwnnw i ben. Mae'r grant yn ddiogel tan ddiwedd sesiwn y Senedd hon. Mater i'r Senedd newydd fydd edrych ar y dystiolaeth a gwrando ar athrawon a rhieni am bwysigrwydd y grant hwnnw, a buaswn yn gobeithio'i weld yn parhau.

Schools are required to protect pupils from radicalisation and extremism as part of their safeguarding duties. An Estyn report said recently that most schools had an understanding of their role and responsibilities in this regard; however, in a minority of schools, leaders do not perceive radicalisation and extremism as relevant to their schools or surrounding areas. They went on to say that staff in these schools may miss an opportunity to identify and address early concerns about a pupil. Minister, what action will you take, in the light of Estyn's finding, to ensure all schools in Wales meet their obligations to protect pupils from radicalisation and extremism in Wales? 

Mae'n ofynnol i ysgolion amddiffyn disgyblion rhag radicaleiddio ac eithafiaeth fel rhan o'u dyletswyddau diogelu. Dywedodd adroddiad Estyn yn ddiweddar fod gan y mwyafrif o ysgolion ddealltwriaeth o’u rôl a’u cyfrifoldebau yn hyn o beth; fodd bynnag, mewn lleiafrif o ysgolion, nid yw arweinwyr o'r farn fod radicaleiddio ac eithafiaeth yn berthnasol i'w hysgolion neu'r ardaloedd cyfagos. Aethant yn eu blaenau i ddweud y gallai staff yn yr ysgolion hyn golli cyfle i nodi a mynd i'r afael â phryderon cynnar am ddisgybl. Weinidog, pa gamau a gymerwch, yng ngoleuni canfyddiad Estyn, i sicrhau bod pob ysgol yng Nghymru yn cyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau i amddiffyn disgyblion rhag radicaleiddio ac eithafiaeth yng Nghymru?

I very much welcome Estyn's thematic report and draw the Member's attention to the good practice in schools already delivering very positive actions, whilst also accepting the recommendations in areas requiring further improvement. For instance, we are funding the Welsh Extremism and Counter Terrorism Unit, working in partnership with the all-Wales school liaison core programme, to produce videos and resources on preventing radicalisation and extremism to be delivered in schools by our school beat officers. We are currently revising our 'Keeping learners safe' guidance to ensure that any developments in the Prevent agenda are fully reflected. The message that Prevent falls squarely under the safeguarding umbrella is clearly articulated in the updated guidance that we will publish later on this year.

Rwy'n croesawu adroddiad thematig Estyn yn fawr a thynnaf sylw’r Aelod at yr ymarfer da mewn ysgolion sydd eisoes yn cyflawni camau cadarnhaol iawn, er fy mod hefyd yn derbyn yr argymhellion mewn meysydd sydd angen eu gwella ymhellach. Er enghraifft, rydym yn ariannu Uned Eithafiaeth a Gwrthderfysgaeth Cymru, gan weithio mewn partneriaeth â rhaglen graidd cyswllt ysgolion Cymru gyfan, i gynhyrchu fideos ac adnoddau ar atal radicaleiddio ac eithafiaeth i gael eu defnyddio gan ein swyddogion rhawd ysgolion. Ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn adolygu ein canllawiau 'Cadw dysgwyr yn ddiogel' i sicrhau bod unrhyw ddatblygiadau yn agenda Prevent yn cael eu hadlewyrchu'n llawn. Mae'r neges fod Prevent yn dod o dan ymbarél diogelu wedi'i mynegi'n glir yn y diweddariad i'r canllawiau y byddwn yn eu cyhoeddi yn nes ymlaen eleni.

13:55
Siarad am Hunanladdiad a Hunan-niweidio
Talking about Suicide and Self-harm

3. Pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod pob awdurdod lleol ac ysgol yn defnyddio'r canllawiau newydd ar siarad am hunanladdiad a hunan-niweidio mewn ysgolion? OAQ55100

3. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that all local authorities and schools are using the new guidance on talking about suicide and self-harm in schools? OAQ55100

Lynne, since you and I launched that guidance in September, hard copies have been distributed to schools, and it's also available online on the Hwb platform and on the Welsh Government website. We are working with partners to raise awareness of this issue as part of our whole-school approach to emotional well-being.

Lynne, ers i chi a minnau lansio'r canllawiau hynny ym mis Medi, mae copïau caled wedi'u dosbarthu i ysgolion, ac maent hefyd ar gael ar-lein ar blatfform Hwb ac ar wefan Llywodraeth Cymru. Rydym yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid i godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r mater hwn fel rhan o'n dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin â lles emosiynol.

Thank you, Minister. And of course, I very much welcome the excellent guidance that has been published. I'm also really pleased that you've made a commitment to including the guidance in the new framework that is being published on a whole-school approach to mental health. But in the meantime, what more can we do to ensure that all schools and all local authorities are aware of the guidance and are actively promoting it?

Diolch, Weinidog. Ac wrth gwrs, rwy'n croesawu'r canllawiau rhagorol sydd wedi’u cyhoeddi. Rwyf hefyd yn falch iawn eich bod wedi ymrwymo i gynnwys y canllawiau yn y fframwaith newydd sy'n cael ei gyhoeddi ar ddull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl. Ond yn y cyfamser, beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i sicrhau bod pob ysgol a phob awdurdod lleol yn ymwybodol o'r canllawiau ac yn mynd ati i'w hyrwyddo?

Lynne, back in September, the existence of the guidance was publicised in our weekly newsletter, Dysg, to all schools. We have used a variety of Welsh Government platforms to draw attention, not just to schools, but to the wider community, of the availability of the guidance. I'm very pleased to say that we've had significant traffic, with regard to clicks, on that particular guidance on our Hwb website, and we've had numerous requests for further copies of the guidance from individual schools. At the end of March, we'll be holding a conference with all secondary school headteachers and I have asked that the event is used to both further promote the availability of the guidance and to consider its usefulness and take-up by those schools.

Lynne, yn ôl ym mis Medi, cafodd y canllawiau gyhoeddusrwydd yn ein cylchlythyr wythnosol, Dysg, i bob ysgol. Rydym wedi defnyddio amrywiaeth o blatfformau Llywodraeth Cymru i dynnu sylw, nid yn unig ysgolion, ond y gymuned ehangach, at argaeledd y canllawiau. Rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud ein bod wedi cael traffig sylweddol, o ran cliciau, ar y canllawiau penodol hynny ar ein gwefan Hwb, ac rydym wedi cael nifer o geisiadau am gopïau ychwanegol o'r canllawiau gan ysgolion unigol. Ddiwedd mis Mawrth, byddwn yn cynnal cynhadledd gyda phenaethiaid yr holl ysgolion uwchradd ac rwyf wedi gofyn i'r digwyddiad gael ei ddefnyddio i hyrwyddo argaeledd y canllawiau ymhellach ac i ystyried eu defnyddioldeb a'u defnydd gan yr ysgolion hynny.

First of all, Minister, I'd like to thank you and Lynne Neagle for all the work that you are doing in this area, because it is vitally important. Lynne touched on a question that I wanted to bring up, about how we are making sure that it gets out to secondary schools and primary schools, because of course one of the big issues I have concerns over is the use of social media and the way that social media really does drive vulnerable children—particularly at an age when they've got so much happening in their lives. I'd like to see that happen in primary schools, that kind of education on social media.

So, really, I have two questions. The first is to re-emphasise the point that Lynne made about how do you get it through to all of our local authorities. Today, we've had a very disappointing report on Pembrokeshire County Council schools. So, if they're struggling to do educational standards, how are they struggling to do the well-being standards? Secondly, specifically on social media, because I think it does cause so much angst, is there anything more that the Welsh Government can do?

Yn gyntaf oll, Weinidog, hoffwn ddiolch i chi a Lynne Neagle am yr holl waith rydych yn ei wneud yn y maes hwn, gan ei fod yn hanfodol bwysig. Cyfeiriodd Lynne at gwestiwn roeddwn am ei ofyn, ynglŷn â sut rydym yn sicrhau ei fod yn cyrraedd ysgolion uwchradd ac ysgolion cynradd, oherwydd wrth gwrs, un o'r materion mawr y mae gennyf bryderon yn eu cylch yw'r defnydd o gyfryngau cymdeithasol a'r ffordd y mae cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn gyrru plant sy'n agored i niwed—yn enwedig ar oedran pan fo cymaint yn digwydd yn eu bywydau. Hoffwn weld hynny'n digwydd mewn ysgolion cynradd, y math hwnnw o addysg ar gyfryngau cymdeithasol.

Felly, mewn gwirionedd, mae gennyf ddau gwestiwn. Y cyntaf yw ailbwysleisio'r pwynt a wnaeth Lynne ynglŷn â sut rydych yn trosglwyddo hyn i'n holl awdurdodau lleol. Heddiw, cawsom adroddiad siomedig iawn ar ysgolion Cyngor Sir Penfro. Felly, os ydynt yn ei chael hi'n anodd gwneud safonau addysgol, sut y maent yn ei chael hi'n anodd gwneud y safonau llesiant? Yn ail, yn benodol ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol, gan y credaf eu bod yn achosi llawer o bryder, a oes unrhyw beth arall y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud?

Presiding Officer, I absolutely agree with Angela Burns about the importance of educating our children on the potential harms and the safe use of the internet and social media channels. Just yesterday was Safer Internet Day, as I'm sure the Member was aware, and I was delighted to join finalists in the Welsh Government's Safer Internet Day competition, where both primary and secondary schools had been producing films to highlight the dangers of inappropriate internet and social media use amongst their peers. I'm sure the Presiding Officer would be delighted that it was Ysgol Bro Pedr who won the primary school competition, and I was delighted to meet them and to watch their film yesterday. So, schools are very alive and alert. They're taking very proactive steps to work with their children and students in this regard. And of course, our digital competence framework, which is the first part of our curriculum for reform, focuses very heavily on ensuring that children know how to use social media and digital skills and the internet in a safe way, and what to do if they are unhappy or unsettled by anything that they see, or see other people doing, using those platforms. But you're absolutely right: there is a close correlation between mental ill-health and distress and some of the stuff that our children and young people are accessing online.

Lywydd, cytunaf yn llwyr ag Angela Burns ynghylch pwysigrwydd addysgu ein plant ar niwed posibl a defnydd diogel o'r rhyngrwyd a sianeli cyfryngau cymdeithasol. Ddoe oedd Diwrnod Defnyddio’r Rhyngrwyd yn Fwy Diogel, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, rwy'n siŵr, ac roeddwn yn falch iawn o ymuno â'r rheini a gyrhaeddodd y rownd derfynol yng nghystadleuaeth Diwrnod Defnyddio’r Rhyngrwyd yn Fwy Diogel Llywodraeth Cymru, lle roedd ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd wedi bod yn cynhyrchu ffilmiau i dynnu sylw at beryglon defnydd amhriodol o'r rhyngrwyd a'r cyfryngau cymdeithasol ymhlith eu cyfoedion. Rwy’n siŵr y byddai’r Llywydd wrth ei bodd mai Ysgol Bro Pedr a enillodd gystadleuaeth yr ysgolion cynradd, ac roeddwn yn falch iawn o gyfarfod â hwy a gwylio eu ffilm ddoe. Felly, mae ysgolion yn fyw ac yn effro iawn i hyn. Maent yn cymryd camau rhagweithiol iawn i weithio gyda'u plant a'u myfyrwyr yn hyn o beth. Ac wrth gwrs, mae ein fframwaith cymhwysedd digidol, sef rhan gyntaf ein cwricwlwm i gael ei diwygio, yn canolbwyntio'n fawr ar sicrhau bod plant yn gwybod sut i ddefnyddio sgiliau digidol a'r cyfryngau cymdeithasol a'r rhyngrwyd mewn ffordd ddiogel, a beth i'w wneud os ydynt yn anhapus neu'n ansicr ynghylch unrhyw beth y maent yn ei weld, neu'n gweld pobl eraill yn ei wneud, gan ddefnyddio'r platfformau hynny. Ond rydych yn llygad eich lle: mae cydberthynas agos rhwng trallod a salwch meddwl a rhywfaint o'r pethau y mae ein plant a'n pobl ifanc yn cael mynediad atynt ar-lein.

Cyllid ar gyfer Darparwyr Addysg
Funding for Education Providers

4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllid ar gyfer darparwyr addysg yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru? OAQ55078

4. Will the Minister make a statement on funding for education providers in north-east Wales? OAQ55078

The draft budget for 2020-21 outlines my priorities for education funding as set out in 'Our national mission', which includes funding for education providers in north-east Wales. This budget continues to be committed to the success and well-being of every learner, regardless of their background or personal circumstances, or whichever part of Wales they are studying and learning in.

Mae'r gyllideb ddrafft ar gyfer 2020-21 yn amlinellu fy mlaenoriaethau ar gyfer cyllid addysg fel y'u nodir yn 'Cenhadaeth ein cenedl', sy'n cynnwys cyllid ar gyfer darparwyr addysg yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru. Mae'r gyllideb hon yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i lwyddiant a lles pob dysgwr, ni waeth beth fo'u cefndir neu eu hamgylchiadau personol, nac ym mha ran o Gymru y maent yn astudio ac yn dysgu.

14:00

Thank you for that answer, Minister. With the labour market constantly changing, adults often need to retrain and upskill. This is particularly the case with the need for many to acquire new digital and technical skills. The need for a dedicated regional adult skills budget is clear. Now, this will enable us to properly react to the skills required by employers in north-east Wales and will also help to attract new employers to the area, boosting the local economy. What consideration have you given to funding such a budget for adults over the age of 19 to train full time? 

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Gyda'r farchnad lafur yn newid yn gyson, mae oedolion yn aml angen ailhyfforddi ac uwchsgilio. Mae hyn yn arbennig o wir gyda'r angen i lawer gaffael sgiliau digidol a thechnegol newydd. Mae'r angen am gyllideb bwrpasol ranbarthol ar gyfer sgiliau oedolion yn glir. Nawr, bydd hyn yn ein galluogi i ymateb yn iawn i'r sgiliau sydd eu hangen ar gyflogwyr yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru a bydd hefyd yn helpu i ddenu cyflogwyr newydd i'r ardal, gan roi hwb i'r economi leol. Pa ystyriaeth rydych wedi'i rhoi i ariannu cyllideb o'r fath ar gyfer oedolion dros 19 oed sydd eisiau hyfforddi'n llawnamser?

Well, Jack, I've recently announced my continued support for the skills development fund. That is £10 million, allocated on a regional basis, to specifically respond to priorities that are identified by the regional skills partnership to ensure that there is an alignment between curriculum and the skills needed in the labour market in a particular area. The SDF is aimed at those learners needing to upskill to improve their employment prospects and, therefore, if digital skills are identified as a key regional priority, this funding can be utilised accordingly by training providers in that area.

You will also be aware, I'm sure, that we are piloting individual learning accounts at present. The ILAs are designed for people who are currently in work but on a relatively low income. That funding is available for them to use again to upskill themselves, and those provisions are also aligned to the regional skills needs as identified by the RSP. So, for instance, whilst not in your particular area, in the Gwent area, digital skills have been acknowledged as something we need to focus on, and the individual learning accounts are there to enable people to access those new digital qualifications to allow them to enhance their career opportunities and prospects.

Wel, Jack, yn ddiweddar cyhoeddais fy nghefnogaeth barhaus i'r gronfa datblygu sgiliau. Mae'n gronfa o £10 miliwn a ddyrennir ar sail ranbarthol i ymateb yn benodol i flaenoriaethau a nodwyd gan y bartneriaeth sgiliau ranbarthol i sicrhau bod cysondeb rhwng y cwricwlwm a'r sgiliau sydd eu hangen yn y farchnad lafur mewn ardal benodol. Mae'r gronfa datblygu sgiliau wedi'i hanelu at ddysgwyr sydd angen uwchsgilio i wella eu rhagolygon cyflogaeth ac felly, os nodir sgiliau digidol fel blaenoriaeth ranbarthol allweddol, gellir defnyddio'r cyllid hwn yn unol â hynny drwy ddarparwyr hyfforddiant yn yr ardal honno.

Fe fyddwch hefyd yn ymwybodol, rwy'n siŵr, ein bod yn treialu cyfrifon dysgu unigol ar hyn o bryd. Mae'r cyfrifon dysgu unigol wedi'u cynllunio ar gyfer pobl sydd mewn gwaith ar hyn o bryd ond sydd ar incwm cymharol isel. Mae'r cyllid hwnnw ar gael iddynt i’w ddefnyddio eto i uwchsgilio, ac mae'r darpariaethau hynny hefyd yn cyd-fynd â'r anghenion sgiliau rhanbarthol fel y’u nodwyd gan y bartneriaeth sgiliau ranbarthol. Felly, er enghraifft, er nad yw yn eich ardal chi, yn ardal Gwent mae sgiliau digidol wedi cael eu cydnabod fel maes y mae angen inni ganolbwyntio arno, ac mae'r cyfrifon dysgu unigol yno i alluogi pobl i gael mynediad at y cymwysterau digidol newydd hynny er mwyn caniatáu iddynt wella eu rhagolygon a’u cyfleoedd gyrfa.

Well, it's now 17 years since secondary headteachers in Flintshire raised concern that they receive one of the lowest school budget settlements in Wales, and they told me about the constant pressures they face managing this while striving for educational excellence. They've continued to receive from Welsh Government every year since one of the lowest settlements—this current year, 2019-20, they got the nineteenth out of 22 overall school budget expenditure per pupil, and eighteenth for delegated budgets per secondary school pupil out of 22 local authorities. What action have you therefore taken, if any, since publication of a report last September showing that seven of the county's 11 secondary schools were in the red, with an overall deficit of nearly £1.5 million, made public shortly after an inspection by education watchdog Estyn found that Flintshire County Council had allowed a small number of schools to carry a shortfall for too long?

Wel, mae bellach yn 17 mlynedd ers i benaethiaid uwchradd yn sir y Fflint fynegi pryder eu bod yn cael un o'r setliadau cyllideb ysgolion isaf yng Nghymru, a dywedasant wrthyf am y pwysau cyson y maent yn ei wynebu yn rheoli hyn wrth ymdrechu am ragoriaeth addysgol. Maent wedi parhau i dderbyn gan Lywodraeth Cymru bob blwyddyn ers un o'r setliadau isaf—y flwyddyn gyfredol hon, 2019-20, roeddent yn safle 19 o'r 22 awdurdod lleol o ran gwariant cyllideb ysgolion cyffredinol y disgybl, a safle 18 o'r 22 awdurdod lleol o ran cyllidebau dirprwyedig y disgybl ysgol uwchradd. Pa gamau rydych wedi'u cymryd felly, os o gwbl, ers cyhoeddi adroddiad fis Medi diwethaf a oedd yn dangos bod nifer o 11 ysgol uwchradd y sir yn y coch gyda diffyg cyffredinol o bron i £1.5 miliwn, a gyhoeddwyd yn fuan ar ôl i archwiliad gan y corff gwarchod addysg, Estyn, ganfod bod Cyngor Sir y Fflint wedi caniatáu i nifer fach o ysgolion fod mewn diffyg am gyfnod rhy hir?  

Well, Mark, as you rightly identified, the funding of secondary schools in Flintshire is predominantly a matter for Flintshire County Council. Flintshire are in receipt of a percentage increase in their budget of over 3.5 per cent, and it is for them, now, to decide how best to use those resources.

Wel, Mark, fel rydych yn ei nodi, yn anffodus, mater i Gyngor Sir y Fflint yn bennaf yw cyllido ysgolion uwchradd yn sir y Fflint. Mae sir y Fflint yn derbyn cynnydd canrannol yn eu cyllideb o dros 3.5 y cant, a mater iddynt hwy yn awr yw penderfynu ar y ffordd orau i ddefnyddio'r adnoddau hynny.

I'll catch up with you, Minister, in a moment.

Dof yn ôl atoch, Weinidog, mewn eiliad.

Diogelu Plant sy'n mynychu Ysgolion Preifat
Safeguarding Children who attend Private Schools

Diolch, Llywydd. Mae'n werth aros amdano fe hefyd, os caf i ddweud—[Chwerthin.]

Thank you, Llywydd. It's worth waiting for, if I may say so—[Laughter.]

5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddiogelu plant sy'n mynychu ysgolion preifat yng Nghymru? OAQ55064

5. Will the Minister make a statement on the safeguarding of children who attend private schools in Wales? OAQ55064

Diolch yn fawr, Llyr. Safeguarding children in all education settings is of paramount importance. Independent schools must exercise their functions in a way that safeguards and promotes the welfare of their pupils, and they must comply with the 'Keeping learners safe' guidance to meet regulatory standards.

Diolch yn fawr, Llyr. Mae amddiffyn plant ym mhob lleoliad addysg o'r pwys mwyaf. Mae’n rhaid i ysgolion annibynnol arfer eu swyddogaethau mewn ffordd sy'n diogelu ac yn hyrwyddo lles eu disgyblion, ac mae’n rhaid iddynt gydymffurfio â chanllawiau 'Cadw dysgwyr yn ddiogel' i fodloni safonau rheoleiddio.

Thank you for your response. I know that you're very aware of the situation that arose at Ruthin School in my region. And before saying any more, I think we should thank Kelly Williams, the Daily Post journalist who did so much to expose the situation there and to bring it to the attention of the wider public, and also to help bring matters to a head. And now that some of those heads that needed to roll have rolled, we need to look forward, of course, and work with the school, but we also need to learn wider lessons from this terrible episode that we encountered at Ruthin.

And it became clear, of course, that independent schools aren't subject to the same rules as local authority schools, and that's of a huge concern, particularly when things, of course, go wrong. Now, some of the things that have been suggested to me that need addressing include making sure that those who teach in independent schools should be registered with the Education Workforce Council. We need to look at ways of ensuring more rigid requirements on councils of management, or governing bodies as most of us would describe them. We really do need representatives who are appointed by local authorities. We need to make sure that there are representatives of teachers and parents and pupils on those bodies. We need to extend the powers of Estyn so that they can remove governors and senior leadership when there are issues around professional concerns.

Now, not all of this is devolved and I appreciate that you wouldn't, maybe, be able to address all of those issues, but I just want to understand what the Welsh Government is now doing to address some of the deficiencies that are clearly in the system so that we can make sure that the experience at Ruthin School isn't one that can happen anywhere else in future. 

Diolch am eich ateb. Gwn eich bod yn ymwybodol iawn o'r sefyllfa a gododd yn Ysgol Rhuthun yn fy rhanbarth. A chyn dweud mwy, rwy'n credu y dylem ddiolch i Kelly Williams, newyddiadurwr y Daily Post a wnaeth gymaint i ddatgelu'r sefyllfa yno ac i dynnu sylw'r cyhoedd ehangach ati, a hefyd i helpu i ddod â phethau i ben. A chan fod rhai o'r pennau oedd angen eu torri bellach wedi'u torri, mae angen inni edrych ymlaen, wrth gwrs, a gweithio gyda'r ysgol, ond mae angen i ni hefyd ddysgu gwersi ehangach o'r bennod ofnadwy hon a welsom yn Rhuthun.

A daeth yn amlwg, wrth gwrs, nad yw ysgolion annibynnol yn ddarostyngedig i'r un rheolau ag ysgolion awdurdodau lleol, ac mae hynny'n destun pryder enfawr, yn enwedig pan fydd pethau'n mynd o chwith. Nawr, mae rhai o'r pethau yr awgrymwyd i mi fod angen mynd i'r afael â hwy yn cynnwys sicrhau y dylai'r rhai sy'n dysgu mewn ysgolion annibynnol fod wedi cofrestru gyda Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg. Mae angen inni edrych ar ffyrdd o sicrhau gofynion mwy cadarn i gynghorau rheoli, neu gyrff llywodraethu fel y byddai'r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn eu disgrifio. Mae gwir angen cynrychiolwyr sydd wedi’u penodi gan awdurdodau lleol arnom. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod cynrychiolwyr athrawon a rhieni a disgyblion ar y cyrff hynny. Mae angen inni ymestyn pwerau Estyn fel y gallant ddiswyddo llywodraethwyr ac uwch arweinwyr pan fydd problemau’n codi sy’n ymwneud â phryderon proffesiynol.

Nawr, nid yw hyn i gyd wedi'i ddatganoli ac rwy'n derbyn na fyddech yn gallu mynd i'r afael â'r holl faterion hynny o bosibl, ond rwyf eisiau deall beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud yn awr i fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r diffygion sy'n amlwg yn y system fel y gallwn sicrhau nad yw'r profiad yn Ysgol Rhuthun yn un a all ddigwydd yn unman arall yn y dyfodol.

14:05

Can I thank Llyr for raising these issues today and thank him also—? We have been keeping in close touch in recent months, and I know that you have been taking this very seriously in your own region, and I'm grateful for your interest and your diligence in continuing to pursue these issues, Llyr. 

You are right, the situation at Ruthin raises some fundamental points about the regulation of the independent school sector. I hope that you will be pleased, Llyr, when I tell you that there are a number of issues that we are looking at at present and hope to make progress on. 

Firstly, we are already out to consultation on changing the regulations that will require an independent school to notify its local authority of the pupils who are on the register at that school so that we know exactly who is attending that school. We are also actively looking at the requirement for staff in independent schools to register with the Education Workforce Council, going forward, as well as enhancing the EWC's powers to suspend registrants who they have concerns about. Those pieces of work are live and are actively being taken forward at the moment and I think they will take us one step forward in providing the safeguards that, I'm sure, across the Chamber, we would all want to see in all of our schools, but in this case, independent schools. 

A gaf fi ddiolch i Llyr am godi'r materion hyn heddiw a diolch iddo hefyd—? Rydym wedi bod yn cadw mewn cysylltiad agos yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, a gwn eich bod wedi bod yn edrych ar hyn o ddifrif yn eich rhanbarth, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar am eich diddordeb a'ch diwydrwydd yn parhau i fynd ar drywydd y materion hyn, Llyr. 

Rydych chi'n iawn, mae'r sefyllfa yn Rhuthun yn codi rhai pwyntiau sylfaenol ynglŷn â rheoleiddio'r sector ysgolion annibynnol. Gobeithio y byddwch yn falch, Llyr, pan ddywedaf wrthych ein bod yn edrych ar nifer o faterion ar hyn o bryd ac yn gobeithio gwneud cynnydd arnynt. 

Yn gyntaf, rydym eisoes yn ymgynghori ar newid y rheoliadau a fydd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i ysgol annibynnol hysbysu ei hawdurdod lleol ynglŷn â'r disgyblion sydd ar y gofrestr yn yr ysgol honno fel ein bod yn gwybod yn union pwy sy'n mynychu'r ysgol. Rydym hefyd wrthi'n edrych ar y gofyniad i staff mewn ysgolion annibynnol gofrestru gyda Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg, wrth symud ymlaen, yn ogystal â gwella pwerau Cyngor y Gweithlu Addysg i atal pobl ar y gofrestr dros dro os oes ganddynt bryderon yn eu cylch. Mae'r gwaith hwnnw ar y gweill ac yn cael eu datblygu ar hyn o bryd ac rwy’n credu y byddant yn mynd â ni gam ymlaen yn y broses o ddarparu'r mesurau diogelwch y byddai pawb ar draws y Siambr am eu gweld ym mhob un o'n hysgolion rwy'n siŵr, ond ysgolion annibynnol yn yr achos hwn.  

Like Llyr Huws Gruffydd, I was also very concerned about the situation at Ruthin School, Minister, and I was very grateful for your very firm message in relation to the desirability of the leadership to change at that school in order for it to be able to continue to operate. I think it did make a difference and I think that that was the straw that finally broke the camel's back in terms of moving the principal of that school on. But, of course, as has already been mentioned, unfortunately, because of the regulations, that principal could easily pop up in another independent school somewhere else in Wales, unless there is a change to the requirement to register with the Education Workforce Council. Of course, it's not just teachers; it could be a senior manager, or anybody, indeed, on those sites. 

One of the other issues that was exposed by this episode, of course, was the limitations of domestic abuse legislation also, because there were suggestions that there could have been an element of coercive control to some of the messages that had been exchanged with at least one pupil in that school, between the principal and the pupil. Can I ask whether you will be considering this more widely as a Welsh Government? And, if it's not already on your radar, in terms of being, perhaps, able to look at the law in respect of domestic abuse in particular, I do think that this needs to change. An independent school with boarders is effectively in loco parentis when those children are in its care, and yet the domestic abuse legislation doesn't seem to apply to a school as a corporate parent, which I think is inappropriate. So it clearly needs to be looked at. Is this something that you will look at with your Cabinet colleagues to see whether it can also be addressed, in addition to the good work that's already under way with regard to registration with the EWC? 

Fel Llyr Huws Gruffydd, roeddwn hefyd yn bryderus iawn am y sefyllfa yn Ysgol Rhuthun, Weinidog, ac roeddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn am eich neges gadarn iawn mewn perthynas â’r dymuniad i newid yr arweinyddiaeth yn yr ysgol honno er mwyn iddi allu parhau i weithredu. Rwy'n credu iddo wneud gwahaniaeth a chredaf mai dyna oedd ei diwedd hi o ran cael gwared ar bennaeth yr ysgol honno. Ond wrth gwrs, fel y crybwyllwyd eisoes, yn anffodus, oherwydd y rheoliadau, gallai'r pennaeth hwnnw ymddangos yn hawdd mewn ysgol annibynnol arall yn rhywle arall yng Nghymru, oni bai bod newid i'r gofyniad i gofrestru gyda Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg. Wrth gwrs, mae'n ymwneud â mwy nag athrawon yn unig; gallai fod yn uwch-reolwr, neu unrhyw un, yn wir, ar y safleoedd hynny.  

Un o'r materion eraill a amlygwyd gan y digwyddiad hwn, wrth gwrs, oedd cyfyngiadau deddfwriaeth cam-drin domestig hefyd, oherwydd roedd awgrymiadau y gallai fod elfen o reolaeth orfodol yn rhai o'r negeseuon a gyfnewidiwyd rhwng y pennaeth ac o leiaf un disgybl yn yr ysgol honno. A gaf fi ofyn a fyddwch yn ystyried hyn yn ehangach fel Llywodraeth Cymru? Ac os nad yw eisoes ar eich radar, o ran gallu edrych ar y gyfraith mewn perthynas â cham-drin domestig yn benodol efallai, rwy'n credu bod angen i hyn newid. Mae ysgol annibynnol gyda disgyblion preswyl yn gweithredu in loco parentis i bob pwrpas, pan fo'r plant hynny dan ei gofal, ac eto nid yw'n ymddangos bod y ddeddfwriaeth cam-drin domestig yn berthnasol i ysgol fel rhiant corfforaethol, sy'n amhriodol yn fy marn i. Felly mae'n amlwg bod angen edrych ar hynny. A yw hyn yn rhywbeth y byddwch yn edrych arno gyda'ch cyd-Aelodau Cabinet i weld a ellir mynd i'r afael ag ef hefyd, yn ychwanegol at y gwaith da sydd eisoes yn mynd rhagddo mewn perthynas â chofrestru gyda Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg? 

I am more than happy to look at that specific point, as to the relevance of domestic abuse legislation with regard to schools, but let me be absolutely clear and repeat once again: we already have very comprehensive 'Keeping learners safe' guidance. That is to be complied with by all schools, whether they are maintained or independent. The inability of an independent school to satisfy me of that, then, ultimately, we have the sanction of withdrawing the registration of that school, but I'm more than happy to look at the point that the Member raises. 

Rwy’n fwy na pharod i edrych ar y pwynt penodol hwnnw, o ran perthnasedd deddfwriaeth cam-drin domestig mewn perthynas ag ysgolion, ond gadewch imi fod yn hollol glir ac ailadrodd unwaith eto: mae gennym eisoes ganllawiau 'Cadw dysgwyr yn ddiogel' cynhwysfawr iawn. Mae’n rhaid i bob ysgol gydymffurfio â hwy, boed yn ysgolion annibynnol neu’n ysgolion a gynhelir. Os na all ysgol annibynnol fy modloni o ran hynny, yn y pen draw, gallwn ddiddymu cofrestriad yr ysgol honno, ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i edrych ar y pwynt y mae'r Aelod yn ei godi. 

14:10

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 6 [OAQ55099] yn ôl. Cwestiwn 7, felly, Neil Hamilton.

Question 6 [OAQ55099] is withdrawn. Question 7, Neil Hamilton.

Addysgu Perthynas
Relationship Teaching

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am addysgu perthynas mewn ysgolion? OAQ55087

7. Will the Minister provide an update on relationship teaching in schools? OAQ55087

I am committed to ensuring that all young people receive high-quality relationship and sexuality education. That's why relationship and sexuality education will be a mandatory part of our new curriculum.

Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod pob person ifanc yn cael addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb o ansawdd uchel. Dyna pam y bydd addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb yn rhan orfodol o'n cwricwlwm newydd.

The Minister is a massive supporter of the European Convention on Human Rights, and article 2 of protocol 1 says that if the state exercises any functions in relation to education and teaching, it

'shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.'

What she's just said, of course, rides coach and horses through that protocol. This is part of a trend now with the Welsh Government of ignoring the rights of parents and ordinary people. We saw it in relation to the smacking ban as well; both polling and consultation results were overwhelmingly against restricting the role of parents in bringing up their own children. So, is the Minister telling me that one of the great advantages of devolution is that people's opinions can be ignored at a more local level in Cardiff, rather than in London? 

Mae'r Gweinidog yn frwd ei chefnogaeth i’r Confensiwn Ewropeaidd ar Hawliau Dynol, ac mae erthygl 2 o brotocol 1 yn dweud, os yw'r wladwriaeth yn arfer unrhyw swyddogaethau mewn perthynas ag addysg ac addysgu, y bydd yn

'parchu hawl rhieni i sicrhau addysg ac addysgu o'r fath yn unol â'u hargyhoeddiadau crefyddol ac athronyddol eu hunain.'

Mae'r hyn y mae newydd ei ddweud, wrth gwrs, yn chwalu’r protocol hwnnw. Mae hyn yn rhan o duedd Llywodraeth Cymru o anwybyddu hawliau rhieni a phobl gyffredin. Gwelsom hyn mewn perthynas â'r gwaharddiad ar smacio hefyd; roedd canlyniadau arolygon barn ac ymgynghori yn llethol yn erbyn cyfyngu ar rôl rhieni wrth fagu eu plant eu hunain. Felly, a yw'r Gweinidog yn dweud wrthyf mai un o fanteision mawr datganoli yw y gellir anwybyddu barn pobl yn fwy lleol yng Nghaerdydd, yn hytrach nag yn Llundain?

Presiding Officer, the Member is right: this is a rights issue. It is a children's rights issue, and all children have the right to receive education that will keep them safe from harm, that will protect them and will give them the skills and the knowledge that they need to become healthy, confident individuals. And that approach to children's rights lies at the heart of my decision. 

We've just heard from another Member of the importance of coercive control and ensuring that our children and young people know what that looks like, and what to do if it happens to them. It is exactly examples like that that means we have to ensure that all children have the right to receive these lessons going forward. 

Lywydd, mae'r Aelod yn iawn: mae hwn yn fater sy’n ymwneud â hawliau. Mae'n ymwneud â hawliau plant, ac mae gan bob plentyn hawl i gael addysg a fydd yn eu cadw'n ddiogel rhag niwed, a fydd yn eu hamddiffyn ac yn darparu'r wybodaeth a’r sgiliau y maent eu hangen i ddod yn unigolion iach, hyderus. Ac mae'r agwedd honno at hawliau plant yn ganolog i fy mhenderfyniad.

Rydym newydd glywed gan Aelod arall am bwysigrwydd rheolaeth orfodol a sicrhau bod ein plant a'n pobl ifanc yn gwybod beth ydyw, a beth i'w wneud os yw'n digwydd iddynt hwy. Enghreifftiau fel hynny sy'n golygu bod rhaid inni sicrhau bod gan bob plentyn hawl i gael y gwersi hyn wrth symud ymlaen. 

Minister, aside from the statutory age ranges that are set out with regard to the five to 16 and the different ages that children will receive sex education, relationship education, I think you're on record previously as saying that there will be a certain amount of credence given to the developmental point of children within that cycle. So, perhaps there is a way, a compromise solution too here, where, on the one hand, yes, you are providing children with the education that you say is their right to receive, but at the same time parents' views and the developmental point at which an individual child is at are also taken into account to make sure that children aren't receiving education that is inappropriate for them particularly at a point in time. 

Weinidog, heblaw am yr ystodau oedran statudol a nodir mewn perthynas â phump i 16 oed a'r gwahanol oedrannau y bydd plant yn cael addysg rhyw, addysg cydberthynas, rwy'n credu eich bod wedi eich cofnodi'n dweud o'r blaen y rhoddir rhywfaint o sylw i bwynt datblygiadol plant o fewn y cylch hwnnw. Felly, efallai fod yna ffordd, neu gyfaddawd yma hefyd, lle rydych chi ar y naill law yn darparu'r addysg y credwch chi fod ganddynt hawl iddi i blant, ond ar yr un pryd, fod barn rhieni a phwynt datblygiadol plentyn unigol hefyd yn cael eu hystyried i sicrhau nad yw plant yn cael addysg sy'n amhriodol iddynt, ar adeg benodol.

I want to reassure the Member that it is more than just credence that we're giving to the age appropriateness of lessons in this part of the curriculum. It is absolutely fundamental that these lessons are delivered in an age and developmentally-appropriate way for children. I recognise that there may be some nervousness, concerns and sensitivities in this regard. That's why, as we move towards the implementation of the new curriculum, I have set up an involvement group that has parental representatives on it. That group met for the first time just last week and will provide a really valuable vehicle for us to be able to continue to work with interested parties as we develop guidance in this area, and content in this area, to reassure parents that what we propose that their children learn about is, indeed, age appropriate and is done in a way that is sensitive and is respectful of the fact that children reach levels of maturity at different points.

Rwyf eisiau sicrhau'r Aelod ein bod yn rhoi llawer o sylw i ba mor addas i oedran plant yw gwersi yn y rhan hon o'r cwricwlwm. Mae'n gwbl hanfodol fod y gwersi hyn yn cael eu cyflwyno mewn ffordd sy’n briodol i oedran a datblygiad plant. Rwy'n cydnabod y gallai fod rhywfaint o nerfusrwydd, pryderon a sensitifrwydd yn hyn o beth. Dyna pam, wrth inni symud tuag at weithredu'r cwricwlwm newydd, rwyf wedi sefydlu grŵp cynnwys sydd â chynrychiolwyr rhieni yn aelodau ohono. Cyfarfu’r grŵp hwnnw am y tro cyntaf yr wythnos diwethaf a bydd yn gyfrwng gwerthfawr iawn inni allu parhau i weithio gyda rhai sydd â diddordeb wrth inni ddatblygu arweiniad a chynnwys yn y maes hwn, i dawelu meddwl rhieni fod y pethau rydym yn argymell y dylai plant ddysgu amdanynt yn briodol i'w hoedran ac yn cael ei wneud mewn ffordd sy'n sensitif ac sy'n parchu’r ffaith bod plant yn cyrraedd lefelau aeddfedrwydd ar wahanol adegau.  

Dyslecsia
Dyslexia

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am argaeledd prawf i wneud diagnosis o ddyslecsia ar gyfer plant sy'n siarad Cymraeg? OAQ55072

8. Will the Minister make a statement on the availability of a test to diagnose dyslexia for Welsh-speaking children? OAQ55072

Thank you, Andrew. I am committed to supporting learners with special educational needs, such as dyslexia, within Welsh-medium education. Our additional learning needs reforms aim to create a bilingual system of support for learners. The availability of Welsh-medium resources is being considered as part of our ALN transformation programme.  

Diolch, Andrew. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i gefnogi dysgwyr ag anghenion addysgol arbennig, fel dyslecsia, mewn addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg. Nod ein diwygiadau anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yw creu system o gefnogaeth ddwyieithog i ddysgwyr. Mae argaeledd adnoddau cyfrwng Cymraeg dan ystyriaeth fel rhan o'n rhaglen drawsnewid ADY.  

Thank you for that answer, Minister. It is a fact that, in most classes, three children will have dyslexia of some shape or form. It is quite alarming, I have to say, to find that whilst there's a screening test, there's not a diagnostic test for children who use the medium of Welsh. I hear that your department is taking some action to understand what the needs are, but can you offer us any comfort that there might well be some assistance in this particular area before this Assembly goes into dissolution next year? Because at the moment, a huge cohort of children the length and breadth of Wales, especially as Welsh-medium education increases, are being disadvantaged and that disadvantage will carry on throughout their lives unless they get the support they need through the education system.

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Mae'n ffaith y bydd gan dri phlentyn ddyslecsia o ryw fath yn y rhan fwyaf o ddosbarthiadau. Mae'n eithaf brawychus, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, er bod prawf sgrinio, nad oes prawf diagnostig ar gyfer plant sy'n defnyddio'r Gymraeg. Rwy'n clywed bod eich adran yn rhoi rhai camau ar waith i ddeall beth yw'r anghenion, ond a allwch chi gynnig unrhyw gysur inni y gallai fod rhywfaint o gymorth yn y maes penodol hwn cyn diddymu'r Cynulliad y flwyddyn nesaf? Oherwydd ar hyn o bryd, mae carfan enfawr o blant ar hyd a lled Cymru, yn enwedig wrth i addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg gynyddu, dan anfantais a bydd yr anfantais honno’n parhau drwy gydol eu hoes oni bai eu bod yn cael y gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt drwy'r system addysg.

14:15

Well, Andrew, as the mother of two dyslexic children who have received their education in the Welsh medium, this is an issue that is really personally important to me. You are correct to say that a dyslexia screening test for learners between six years and six months and 11 years and five months is available in Welsh from Dyslexia Wales, and that particular screening test provides a profile of a learner's strengths and weaknesses that can be used to inform development and support for learners going forward.

A dyslexia screening test for learners between four years and six months and six years and five months has been translated into Welsh, but, again, there are certain constraints and disadvantages to that approach. I can give you my commitment that my officials are working with the sector to be able to identify different ways and better ways and better approaches to ensure both equity and excellence in this regard. 

Wel, Andrew, fel mam i ddau o blant dyslecsig sydd wedi cael eu haddysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, mae hwn yn fater sy'n wirioneddol bwysig i mi yn bersonol. Rydych yn gywir i ddweud bod prawf sgrinio dyslecsia ar gyfer dysgwyr rhwng chwe mlwydd a chwe mis oed ac 11 mlwydd a phum mis oed ar gael yn Gymraeg gan Dyslecsia Cymru, ac mae'r prawf sgrinio hwnnw'n darparu proffil o gryfderau a gwendidau dysgwyr y gellir ei ddefnyddio i lywio datblygiad a chymorth i ddysgwyr wrth symud ymlaen.

Mae prawf sgrinio dyslecsia ar gyfer dysgwyr rhwng pedair mlwydd a chwe mis oed a chwe mlwydd a phum mis oed wedi'i gyfieithu i'r Gymraeg, ond unwaith eto, mae rhai cyfyngiadau ac anfanteision i'r dull hwnnw. Gallaf roi ymrwymiad i chi fod fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda'r sector i allu nodi gwahanol ffyrdd a ffyrdd gwell a dulliau gwell o sicrhau tegwch a rhagoriaeth yn hyn o beth.

Presenoldeb mewn Ysgolion
School Attendance

9. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyfraddau presenoldeb mewn ysgolion yn Abertawe? OAQ55080

9. Will the Minister make a statement on school attendance rates in Swansea? OAQ55080

Diolch, Dai. The latest statistics on school absenteeism by pupils of compulsory school age in all maintained primary and special schools in Wales, which were published in December, show that Swansea's overall attendance rate is 94.4 per cent, which is just above average compared to the rest of Wales, which is 94.3 per cent.

Diolch, Dai. Mae'r ystadegau diweddaraf ar absenoldeb disgyblion oedran ysgol gorfodol ym mhob ysgol gynradd ac ysgol arbennig a gynhelir yng Nghymru a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Rhagfyr, yn dangos bod cyfradd presenoldeb cyffredinol Abertawe yn 94.4 y cant, sydd ychydig yn uwch na'r cyfartaledd o'i gymharu â gweddill Cymru, sef 94.3 y cant.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Clearly, school attendance is vital if pupils are to achieve their potential, but in looking at the local data in Swansea in more detail, what is absolutely apparent is that despite efforts by both Welsh Government and the local authority, there remains a stark contrast in school attendance rates between relatively affluent areas such as Bishopston and Pennard, at over 96 per cent attendance, and less affluent areas such as Townhill and Mayhill, where attendance rates are around 91 per cent. 

Estyn has consistently made recommendations to the effect that local authorities need to create strong links between schools and supporting services, including community groups, social services and the education welfare service, which can obviously assist in engaging and supporting vulnerable families. However, attendance is not where we would want it to be in some schools still. Do you accept that this is an area that needs additional attention and additional resource, and what steps are you taking to ensure that children in the poorest parts of Swansea do not continue to suffer in this regard?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Yn amlwg, mae presenoldeb ysgol yn hanfodol os yw disgyblion am gyflawni eu potensial, ond wrth edrych ar y data lleol yn Abertawe yn fwy manwl, yr hyn sy'n hollol amlwg yw, er gwaethaf ymdrechion Llywodraeth Cymru a'r awdurdod lleol, mae cyferbyniad llwyr o hyd yng nghyfraddau presenoldeb ysgolion rhwng ardaloedd cymharol gefnog fel Llandeilo Ferwallt a Phennard, gyda phresenoldeb o dros 96 y cant, ac ardaloedd llai cefnog fel Townhill a Mayhill, lle mae'r cyfraddau presenoldeb oddeutu 91 y cant.

Mae Estyn wedi gwneud argymhellion yn gyson i'r perwyl fod angen i awdurdodau lleol greu cysylltiadau cryf rhwng ysgolion a gwasanaethau cynnal, gan gynnwys grwpiau cymunedol, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a'r gwasanaeth lles addysg, a all yn amlwg gynorthwyo i gefnogi ac ymgysylltu â theuluoedd sy'n agored i niwed. Fodd bynnag, nid yw presenoldeb wedi cyrraedd y lefel y byddem yn ei hoffi mewn rhai ysgolion o hyd. A ydych yn derbyn bod hwn yn faes sydd angen sylw ychwanegol ac adnoddau ychwanegol, a pha gamau rydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau nad yw plant yn rhannau tlotaf Abertawe yn parhau i ddioddef yn hyn o beth?

You're absolutely right, Dai, to point to a trend not just in Swansea but across Wales, that there is a great propensity to absenteeism in schools that work with our most disadvantaged and deprived communities. Understanding the needs of individual learners and providing the right support at the right time to ensure that they access school can make all the difference. As you quite rightly outline, it is that regular attendance at school that will have a dramatic effect on the ability of that child to gain the most out of education and fulfil their potential.

Just one way in which we are looking to support this, the newest element of our pupil development grant, the access element, has been introduced to directly support parents and carers with some of the costs of the school day, which could be a reason why sometimes children don't feel able to go to school, whether that's because they haven't got the correct uniform or they haven't got the correct kit, the correct school equipment, that could be a real barrier to them going in.

We've also worked with Children in Wales to produce guides for schools around being cognisant of how decisions a school can make can influence a child coming to school. So, for instance, whilst there are lots of opportunities to be had from celebrating World Book Day, the pressure on a parent to provide a costume for that child may mean that's a day that the child does not go into school. So, being aware of some of these decisions, and how the school organises itself, can make a significant difference. That's not to say that schools can't be creative. I recently visited a school in the Ogmore constituency that plays a full part in World Book Day—they just have a wardrobe full of costumes that children can come into school and choose from so they don't feel the need to be excluded from those activities. So, we do need schools, local authorities, as well as Welsh Government, to be cognisant of those barriers and work collectively to break those barriers down.

Rydych yn llygad eich lle, Dai, i dynnu sylw at duedd nid yn unig yn Abertawe ond ledled Cymru, fod mwy o dueddiad tuag at absenoldeb mewn ysgolion sy'n gweithio gyda'n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Mae deall anghenion dysgwyr unigol a darparu'r gefnogaeth gywir ar yr adeg gywir i sicrhau eu bod yn mynychu'r ysgol yn gallu gwneud byd o wahaniaeth. Fel yr amlinellwch yn hollol gywir, bydd presenoldeb rheolaidd yn yr ysgol yn cael effaith ddramatig ar allu'r plentyn i gael y gorau o addysg a chyflawni ei botensial.

Un ffordd rydym yn edrych arni i gefnogi hyn yw drwy elfen fwyaf newydd ein grant datblygu disgyblion, yr elfen fynediad, sydd wedi'i chyflwyno i gynorthwyo rhieni a gofalwyr yn uniongyrchol gyda rhai o gostau'r diwrnod ysgol, a allai fod yn rheswm pam fod plant yn teimlo na allant fynd i’r ysgol weithiau, boed hynny oherwydd nad oes ganddynt wisg ysgol gywir neu oherwydd nad oes ganddynt y cit cywir, yr offer ysgol cywir, a gallai hynny fod yn rhwystr go iawn iddynt rhag mynychu’r ysgol.

Rydym wedi gweithio gyda Plant yng Nghymru hefyd i gynhyrchu canllawiau i ysgolion ynglŷn â gwybod sut y gall penderfyniadau y gall ysgol eu gwneud ddylanwadu ar blentyn sy'n dod i'r ysgol. Felly, er enghraifft, er bod llawer o gyfleoedd i'w cael o ddathlu Diwrnod y Llyfr, gall y pwysau ar riant i ddarparu gwisg ar gyfer eu plentyn olygu na fydd y plentyn yn mynd i’r ysgol y diwrnod hwnnw. Felly, gall bod yn ymwybodol o rai o'r penderfyniadau hyn a sut y mae'r ysgol yn trefnu ei hun wneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol. Nid yw hynny'n golygu na all ysgolion fod yn greadigol. Yn ddiweddar, ymwelais ag ysgol yn etholaeth Ogwr sy'n chwarae rhan lawn yn Niwrnod y Llyfr—mae ganddynt gwpwrdd dillad yn llawn o wisgoedd y gall plant ddod i'r ysgol a dewis o'u plith fel nad ydynt yn teimlo bod angen iddynt gael eu heithrio o'r gweithgareddau hynny. Felly, mae angen i ysgolion, awdurdodau lleol, yn ogystal â Llywodraeth Cymru, fod yn ymwybodol o'r rhwystrau a chydweithio i'w chwalu.

14:20
2. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
2. Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Mae'r cwestiynau nesaf, felly, i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Jayne Bryant. 

The next questions are to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Jayne Bryant.

Y Defnydd o'r Celfyddydau i Wella Iechyd a Lles
The Use of Arts to Improve Health and Well-Being

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r defnydd o'r celfyddydau i wella iechyd a lles mewn lleoliadau gofal cymdeithasol? OAQ55095

1. Will the Minister outline how the Welsh Government is supporting the use of arts to improve health and well-being in social care settings? OAQ55095

Arts-based initiatives can play an important role in improving the health and well-being outcomes of people in care settings. That is why we are supporting arts-based projects, including through the integrated care fund and Age Cymru's healthy ageing programme.

Gall mentrau'n seiliedig ar y celfyddydau chwarae rhan bwysig yn gwella canlyniadau iechyd a llesiant pobl mewn lleoliadau gofal. Dyna pam ein bod yn cefnogi prosiectau sy'n seiliedig ar y celfyddydau, gan gynnwys drwy'r gronfa gofal integredig a rhaglen heneiddio'n iach Age Cymru.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. The cross-party group on arts and health, which I chair, has been looking at areas of good practice around Wales. In our meetings, we've seen some innovative examples of how arts-based activities are being delivered in social care settings across Wales to improve people's physical and mental well-being. One such example has been Age Cymru's six-year programme cARTrefu. It aims to improve access to quality arts experiences for older people in residential care. Artists deliver weekly creative sessions with residents, staff and family members over eight to 12 weeks, inspiring and reigniting a passion for creativity. Since 2015, nearly 2,000 two-hour sessions have been delivered in over 25 per cent of the care homes across Wales, making it the largest project of its kind across Europe.

As demand on social care services across Wales continues to rise, and with a growing understanding of the importance of the arts on health and well-being, support and expansion of projects like cARTrefu are important. Would the Deputy Minister endeavour to look at the good practice that is taking place and how to properly embed this work in our care settings? I'd also like to extend an invitation to the Deputy Minister to attend one of our cross-party groups to hear about some of the excellent collaborative work that's going on.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Mae'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gelfyddydau ac iechyd a gadeirir gennyf wedi bod yn edrych ar feysydd ymarfer da o amgylch Cymru. Yn ein cyfarfodydd, rydym wedi gweld enghreifftiau arloesol o sut y mae gweithgareddau celfyddydol yn cael eu darparu mewn lleoliadau gofal cymdeithasol ledled Cymru i wella llesiant corfforol a meddyliol pobl. Un enghraifft o'r fath oedd rhaglen chwe blynedd Age Cymru, cARTrefu. Ei nod yw gwella mynediad at brofiadau celfyddydol o ansawdd i bobl hŷn mewn gofal preswyl. Mae artistiaid yn cyflwyno sesiynau creadigol wythnosol gyda phreswylwyr, staff ac aelodau o'r teulu dros wyth i 12 wythnos, gan ysbrydoli ac ailgynnau angerdd am greadigrwydd. Ers 2015, mae bron i 2,000 o sesiynau dwy awr wedi cael eu darparu mewn dros 25 y cant o'r cartrefi gofal ledled Cymru, sy’n golygu mai hwnnw yw’r prosiect mwyaf o'i fath ar draws Ewrop.

Wrth i'r galw ar wasanaethau gofal cymdeithasol ledled Cymru barhau i gynyddu, a chyda dealltwriaeth gynyddol o bwysigrwydd y celfyddydau i iechyd a llesiant, mae cefnogi ac ehangu prosiectau fel cARTrefu yn bwysig. A wnaiff y Dirprwy Weinidog edrych ar yr ymarfer da sy'n digwydd a sut y gellir ymgorffori'r gwaith hwn yn briodol yn ein lleoliadau gofal? Hoffwn estyn gwahoddiad i'r Dirprwy Weinidog fynychu un o'n grwpiau trawsbleidiol i glywed am beth o'r gwaith cydweithredol rhagorol sy'n digwydd.

I'd like to thank Jayne Bryant for her question and for her work on the cross-party group on the arts and health. I was a member of that group and I know what important work it does and how important the arts are for health, and I'd be very pleased to come to one of the meetings.

Obviously, one of the challenges to enable arts to happen in social care settings is cost, and I'm very pleased that the Welsh Government is continuing to support Age Cymru's healthy ageing programme. Yesterday I published the loneliness and isolation strategy, which commits the Welsh Government to working with the Arts Council of Wales to continue to raise awareness of the health and well-being benefits of participating in the arts, and this is obviously so important in social care settings. And in addition, the Arts Council of Wales will explore the role that arts on prescription can play, particularly in preventing loneliness and isolation.

And I'd like to finish, really, by saying I'm aware of the role that Jayne Bryant plays in supporting the arts in the community from my visit to Derwen Pobl housing complex, meeting the Reality Theatre yesterday.

Hoffwn ddiolch i Jayne Bryant am ei chwestiwn ac am ei gwaith yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar y celfyddydau ac iechyd. Roeddwn yn aelod o'r grŵp hwnnw ac rwy'n gwybod am y gwaith pwysig y mae'n ei wneud a pha mor bwysig yw'r celfyddydau i iechyd, a buaswn yn falch iawn o ddod i un o'r cyfarfodydd.

Yn amlwg, un o'r heriau i alluogi'r celfyddydau i ddigwydd mewn lleoliadau gofal cymdeithasol yw cost, ac rwy'n falch iawn fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i gefnogi rhaglen heneiddio'n iach Age Cymru. Ddoe, cyhoeddais y strategaeth unigrwydd ac arwahanrwydd, sy’n ymrwymo Llywodraeth Cymru i weithio gyda Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru i barhau i godi ymwybyddiaeth o’r manteision iechyd a llesiant sy’n deillio o gymryd rhan yn y celfyddydau, ac mae hyn yn amlwg mor bwysig mewn lleoliadau gofal cymdeithasol. Ac ar ben hynny, bydd Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru'n archwilio'r rôl y gall celfyddydau ar bresgripsiwn ei chwarae, yn enwedig wrth atal unigrwydd ac arwahanrwydd.

A hoffwn gloi, a dweud y gwir, drwy ddweud fy mod yn ymwybodol o'r rôl y mae Jayne Bryant yn ei chwarae wrth gefnogi'r celfyddydau yn y gymuned o fy ymweliad ag adeiladau Derwen Pobl, a chyfarfod â'r Reality Theatre ddoe.

Deputy Minister, engaging in arts activities empowers people living with dementia and enriches life for them and those who are around them. The charity, Arts 4 Dementia, helps develop activities at art venues to re-energise and inspire people in the early stages of dementia and their carers so that those who need it will be able to find artistic stimulation in their chosen art form close to where they live. Deputy Minister, what support and encouragement is the Welsh Government providing to organisations such as Arts 4 Dementia to enable people living with dementia in Wales to live more fulfilled and active lives for longer at home and in the community they live?

Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae cymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau celfyddydol yn grymuso pobl sy'n byw gyda dementia ac yn cyfoethogi bywyd iddynt hwy a'r rhai sydd o'u cwmpas. Mae'r elusen, Arts 4 Dementia, yn helpu i ddatblygu gweithgareddau mewn lleoliadau celf i fywiogi ac ysbrydoli pobl yng nghamau cynnar dementia a'u gofalwyr fel bod y rhai sydd ei angen yn gallu dod o hyd i ysgogiad artistig ar ffurf celf o'u dewis yn agos at ble maent yn byw. Ddirprwy Weinidog, pa gefnogaeth ac anogaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu darparu i sefydliadau fel Arts 4 Dementia i alluogi pobl sy'n byw gyda dementia yng Nghymru i fyw bywydau mwy cyflawn ac egnïol am gyfnod hwy yn eu cartref ac yn y gymuned y maent yn byw ynddi?

I thank Mohammad Asghar for that question, and I think he makes a very important point—how important it is for people with dementia to live as near to their homes as possible and to have the opportunity of benefiting from the arts. He'll be aware of the dementia action plan for Wales from 2018 to 2022, which sets out our vision for Wales to be a dementia-friendly nation and that absolutely recognises the rights of people with dementia to live as independently as possible. Through the implementation of the plan, we're trying to develop community approaches that will provide more opportunities for people who are affected by dementia to be involved in activities, including participation in culture and the arts. I always remember, when I think about the area of dementia and the arts, the fantastic work of the Forget-me-Not choirs, which the Member may have attended, where somebody with dementia and their carer both take part in singing, and the words all come back of the old songs to the person suffering with dementia who may not be able to communicate in any other way. So, I think there is huge power in the arts to help people with dementia.

Diolch i Mohammad Asghar am y cwestiwn hwnnw, a chredaf ei fod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn—pa mor bwysig yw hi i bobl â dementia fyw mor agos at eu cartrefi â phosibl a chael cyfle i elwa o'r celfyddydau. Fe fydd yn ymwybodol o gynllun gweithredu Cymru ar gyfer dementia rhwng 2018 a 2022, sy'n nodi ein gweledigaeth i Gymru fod yn genedl sy'n deall dementia ac sy'n cydnabod hawl pobl â dementia i fyw mor annibynnol â phosibl. Drwy roi'r cynllun ar waith, rydym yn ceisio datblygu dulliau cymunedol a fydd yn darparu mwy o gyfleoedd i bobl yr effeithir arnynt gan ddementia i gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau, gan gynnwys cyfranogi mewn diwylliant a'r celfyddydau. Rwyf bob amser yn cofio, wrth feddwl am faes dementia a'r celfyddydau, am waith gwych y corau Forget-me-Not, y gallai'r aelod fod wedi eu mynychu, lle mae rhywun â dementia a'u gofalwr ill dau'n cymryd rhan yn y canu ac mae'r person sy'n dioddef o ddementia yn cofio geiriau'r hen ganeuon er nad yw, o bosibl, yn gallu cyfathrebu mewn unrhyw ffordd arall. Felly, rwy'n credu bod grym enfawr yn y celfyddydau i helpu pobl â dementia.

14:25
Gwasanaethau Mân Anafiadau
Minor Injuries Services

2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddarparu gwasanaethau mân anafiadau yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru? OAQ55077

2. Will the Minister make a statement on the provision of minor injuries services in north-east Wales? OAQ55077

Yes. Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has established a pan-health board group to assess the scope of minor injury services across north Wales to ensure standardisation and to reduce demand on busy emergency departments within north Wales.

Gwnaf. Mae Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi sefydlu grŵp ar draws y bwrdd iechyd i asesu cwmpas gwasanaethau mân anafiadau ledled gogledd Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod safoni'n digwydd a lleihau'r pwysau ar adrannau achosion brys prysur yng ngogledd Cymru.

Thank you, Minister. The Welsh Government's Choose Well campaign rightly urges people to only use accident and emergency departments as and when they need to. It also helps them to choose and advises them to choose other healthcare services where appropriate, such as those provided by community pharmacies, general practitioner surgeries or through minor injuries services. Llywydd, a minor injuries unit in Deeside hospital in my constituency would help my residents choose well, as would fully staffed GP surgeries open at accessible hours right across my constituency. So, Minister, will you do all in your power to make sure that the health board properly considers this request for a minor injuries unit in Deeside and also looks at improving GP provision, right across Alyn and Deeside?

Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Mae ymgyrch Dewis Doeth Llywodraeth Cymru yn annog pobl yn briodol i ddefnyddio adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn ôl yr angen yn unig. Mae hefyd yn eu helpu i ddewis ac yn eu cynghori i ddewis gwasanaethau gofal iechyd eraill lle bo hynny'n briodol, megis y rhai a ddarperir gan fferyllfeydd cymunedol, meddygfeydd meddygon teulu neu wasanaethau mân anafiadau. Lywydd, byddai uned mân anafiadau yn ysbyty Glannau Dyfrdwy yn fy etholaeth i yn helpu fy nhrigolion i i ddewis yn ddoeth, yn yr un ffordd ag y byddai sicrhau bod meddygfeydd yn cael eu staffio'n llawn ac ar agor yn ystod oriau hygyrch ar draws fy etholaeth. Felly, Weinidog, a wnewch chi bopeth yn eich gallu i sicrhau bod y bwrdd iechyd yn ystyried y cais hwn am uned mân anafiadau yng Nglannau Dyfrdwy yn briodol, ac yn edrych hefyd ar wella darpariaeth meddygon teulu ar draws Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy?

Yes, I'm aware. In fact, the Member has taken the opportunity to raise this issue with me in the past and does so again, as he should do. There is current work that is already ongoing within north Wales to review minor injuries provision, as I indicated. Within the last two years, there have been about 20,000 minor injuries attendances at the Wrexham Maelor emergency department—a significant number of people going there. They've actually put in additional support, both with general practice and also advanced nurse practitioner support within Wrexham from the start of November last year. I think part of this journey is not only to understand what that means in terms of releasing pressure, but also to keep an open mind about the issues the Member is raising, whether it's Deeside or another area that is relevant, and that is being considered as part of the review. So, I'm very clear that not only is the review the right thing to do, but there also is a need to engage with local representatives, like the Member, to have an open conversation about the data and the information they've got and any potential choices they make to make this a much more accessible service for people right across the north-east of Wales.

Ie, rwy'n ymwybodol. A dweud y gwir, mae'r Aelod wedi manteisio ar y cyfle i godi'r mater hwn gyda mi yn y gorffennol ac mae'n gwneud hynny eto, fel y dylai. Mae gwaith eisoes yn mynd rhagddo yng ngogledd Cymru i adolygu'r ddarpariaeth mân anafiadau, fel y dywedais. O fewn y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf, cafwyd tua 20,000 o achosion o fân anafiadau yn adran achosion brys Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam—nifer sylweddol o bobl yn mynd yno. Mewn gwirionedd, maent wedi rhoi cymorth ychwanegol, mewn ymarfer cyffredinol yn ogystal â chymorth uwch-ymarferwyr nyrsio yn Wrecsam o ddechrau mis Tachwedd y llynedd. Rwy'n credu bod rhan o'r daith hon yn ymwneud â deall beth y mae hynny'n ei olygu o ran lleddfu pwysau, yn ogystal â chadw meddwl agored am y problemau y mae'r Aelod yn eu codi, boed yng Nglannau Dyfrdwy neu mewn ardal arall sy'n berthnasol, ac mae hynny'n cael ei ystyried fel rhan o'r adolygiad. Felly, rwy'n glir iawn mai'r adolygiad yw'r peth iawn i'w wneud, a bod angen ymgysylltu â chynrychiolwyr lleol hefyd, fel yr Aelod, i gael sgwrs agored ynglŷn â'r data a'r wybodaeth sydd ganddynt ac unrhyw ddewisiadau posibl a wnânt i sicrhau bod hwn yn wasanaeth llawer mwy hygyrch i bobl ar draws gogledd-ddwyrain Cymru.

According to Betsi Cadwaladr's website, there are, I think, five minor injury units identified, other than A&E units, across the north Wales regional constituency. Luckily for me, one of them is in Mold, but most people aren't so lucky. Of course, in accordance with Welsh Government policy, in 2013 Betsi Cadwaladr closed five others—Colwyn Bay, Ruthin, Llangollen, Flint and Chirk—despite local campaigns to retain them and despite repeated warnings that this would place extra pressure on our A&E departments and GP practices. Of course, this is exactly what's happened. So, given your comments a few moments ago, what consideration are you giving to perhaps restoring minor injury units to the communities that lost them or that are accessible to them in other communities nearby?

Yn ôl gwefan Betsi Cadwaladr, credaf fod pum uned mân anafiadau wedi'u nodi, ar wahân i unedau damweiniau ac achosion brys, ar draws rhanbarth gogledd Cymru. Yn ffodus i mi, mae un ohonynt yn yr Wyddgrug, ond nid yw'r rhan fwyaf o bobl mor lwcus. Wrth gwrs, yn unol â pholisi Llywodraeth Cymru, caeodd Betsi Cadwaladr bump arall yn 2013—Bae Colwyn, Rhuthun, Llangollen, y Fflint a'r Waun—er gwaethaf ymgyrchoedd lleol i'w cadw ac er gwaethaf sawl rhybudd y byddai hynny'n rhoi pwysau ychwanegol ar ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys a'n meddygfeydd meddygon teulu. Wrth gwrs, dyna'n union a ddigwyddodd. Felly, o ystyried eich sylwadau ychydig funudau yn ôl, pa ystyriaeth rydych yn ei rhoi i adfer unedau mân anafiadau o bosibl i'r cymunedau a'u collodd neu i gymunedau eraill gerllaw?

Well, I think I've essentially dealt with that in response to Jack Sargeant's question. In the review that is being undertaken to consider alternative locations, the challenge isn't just how many locations people may want to have, it's actually about where the need is, relatively, but also the ability to properly staff those, because if you're going to have adequate minor injuries provision on its own, you need the right number of nurses, in particular, and emergency nurse practitioners and our ability to invest in the advanced nurse practitioner workforce as well. So, it's not just about putting a pin in a map and saying, 'That's where it will be.' It is about having a proper plan to get there, with a workforce strategy to get there, and to meet the demand and need that we do recognise exist within north-east Wales. As I say, over the last two years, there have been 20,000 minor injuries attendances at Wrexham in each one of the last two calendar years.

Wel, rwy'n credu fy mod wedi trafod y pwynt hwnnw i bob pwrpas wrth ymateb i gwestiwn Jack Sargeant. Yn yr adolygiad sy'n cael ei gynnal i ystyried lleoliadau eraill, mae'r her yn ymwneud â mwy na faint o leoliadau y gallai pobl fod eisiau eu cael, mae'n ymwneud mewn gwirionedd â lle mae'r angen, yn gymharol, ond hefyd y gallu i staffio'r rheini'n briodol, oherwydd os ydych am gael gwasanaeth mân anafiadau digonol ar ei ben ei hun, rydych angen y nifer gywir o nyrsys yn arbennig, ac ymarferwyr nyrsio brys ynghyd â'r gallu i fuddsoddi yn y gweithlu uwch-ymarferwyr nyrsio hefyd. Felly, mae'n golygu mwy na rhoi pin mewn map a dweud, 'Dyna'r lleoliad.' Mae'n ymwneud â chael cynllun priodol i gyrraedd y pwynt hwnnw, gyda strategaeth ar gyfer y gweithlu i allu ei gyrraedd, ac i fodloni'r galw a'r angen rydym yn ei gydnabod yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru. Fel y dywedais, dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf, gwelwyd 20,000 o achosion o fân anafiadau yn Wrecsam ym mhob un o'r ddwy flynedd galendr ddiwethaf.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Angela Burns.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Angela Burns.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, phenylketonuria, which we'll call PKU because it's much easier, is a very rare genetic metabolic disorder that affects around one in 10,000 people in the UK. Patients living with PKU are not able to metabolise phenylalanine, which is an amino acid that's found in the proteins within your brain. And you're born with it, and, as soon as you are born, if you do not start to control those protein levels, it can lead to severe brain damage, thereby affecting the rest of your life. One of the ways that this disorder can be treated is by leading a very restricted diet. Now, the National Society for Phenylketonuria has come up with a number of recommendations to help improve PKU sufferers' lives, one of which is that all people with PKU should be followed up in an integrated, specialist, metabolic service led by an experienced physician and dietician. So, Minister, I wondered if you would give some consideration to adopting this recommendation, because, although the numbers are small, it does affect a significant group of people within Wales, and has long-term and absolutely devastating effects on their lives if they do not get the balance of this diet right.

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, anhwylder metabolig genetig prin iawn yw ffenylcetonwria, a alwn yn PKU oherwydd ei fod yn llawer haws, sy'n effeithio ar oddeutu un o bob 10,000 o bobl yn y DU. Nid yw cleifion sy'n byw gyda PKU yn gallu metaboleiddio ffenylalanin, sef asid amino a welir yn y proteinau yn eich ymennydd. Ac rydych yn cael eich geni gyda'r cyflwr, a chyn gynted ag y cewch eich geni, os na fyddwch yn dechrau rheoli lefelau'r protein, gall arwain at niwed difrifol i'r ymennydd, gan effeithio ar weddill eich bywyd. Un o'r ffyrdd y gellir trin yr anhwylder hwn yw drwy fwyta deiet cyfyngedig iawn. Nawr, mae'r gymdeithas genedlaethol ar gyfer dioddefwyr ffenylcetonwria wedi cyflwyno nifer o argymhellion i helpu i wella bywydau dioddefwyr PKU, ac un ohonynt yw y dylai pawb sydd â PKU gael eu monitro mewn gwasanaeth metabolig, integredig, arbenigol dan arweiniad meddyg a deietegydd profiadol. Felly, Weinidog, tybed a fyddech yn rhoi rhywfaint o ystyriaeth i fabwysiadu'r argymhelliad hwn, oherwydd, er bod y niferoedd yn fach, mae'n effeithio ar grŵp sylweddol o bobl yng Nghymru, a gall effeithio'n hirdymor ac yn ddifäol iawn ar eu bywydau os nad ydynt yn cael cydbwysedd y deiet yn gywir.

14:30

Thank you for the Member's question, and I think it's positive that we're talking about some of the rarer conditions that exist. There are a number of Members across the Chamber who have taken an interest in this. I know that my colleague to the left, the Trefnydd, during her time as a backbencher, took a particular interest in rare diseases and conditions, and, in fact, on this particular issue, I've seen both David Rees, the Member for Aberavon, and the Counsel General in his role as the constituency Member for Neath, who have had constituents who are concerned about the ability to adequately provide something to help them to make choices. 

And the point about diet is well made. So, there's a challenge about what we can, could and should provide and have the workforce to do so, and actually investing in having the right number of dieticians, because this is a pretty controlled regime that people need to follow to allow them to make other choices in their lives. So, I'm more than happy for my officials and the Government, and indeed the health service, to engage with the PKU society to talk about what is possible, and, equally, where that's possible to provide, and it may well mean that we need to make different choices about investing in the training of our future workforce.FootnoteLink 

Diolch am gwestiwn yr Aelod, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn gadarnhaol ein bod yn sôn am rai o'r cyflyrau prinnach sy'n bodoli. Mae nifer o Aelodau ar draws y Siambr wedi dangos diddordeb yn hyn. Gwn fod fy nghyd-Aelod ar y chwith, y Trefnydd, yn ystod ei hamser ar y meinciau cefn, wedi dangos diddordeb arbennig mewn clefydau a chyflyrau prin, ac mewn gwirionedd, ar y mater penodol hwn, gwn fod David Rees, yr Aelod dros Aberafan, a'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn ei rôl fel yr Aelod dros Gastell-nedd, wedi cael etholwyr yn mynegi pryderon ynghylch y gallu i ddarparu rhywbeth digonol i'w helpu i wneud dewisiadau.

Ac mae'r pwynt am ddeiet yn un da. Felly, mae her ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallwn, y gallem ac y dylem ei ddarparu, ynghyd â'r gweithlu i wneud hynny, a buddsoddi i sicrhau'r nifer iawn o ddeietegwyr, oherwydd mae'r drefn sy'n rhaid i bobl ei dilyn i ganiatáu iddynt wneud dewisiadau eraill yn eu bywydau yn un eithaf llym. Felly, rwy'n fwy na bodlon i fy swyddogion a'r Llywodraeth, a'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn wir, ymgysylltu â chymdeithas y PKU i siarad am yr hyn sy'n bosibl, ac yn yr un modd, lle mae'n bosibl darparu hynny, ac mae'n ddigon posibl y bydd yn golygu bod angen inni wneud dewisiadau gwahanol ynghylch buddsoddi mewn hyfforddiant ar gyfer ein gweithlu yn y dyfodol.FootnoteLink

Well, thank you for that, because that's actually quite a positive answer. I'm the current chair of the cross-party group on rare and orphan diseases here, and I was actually shocked when I met a whole group of people with PKU, because it's not just—. I think you termed it a 'pretty controlled regime'. Imagine spending your entire life living on soups and shakes, with the added disadvantage that, apparently, they taste disgusting. I was offered a sample; I did actually decline, because I could smell it before I even got anywhere near it. And it wasn't just that. These people were showing me, people with the condition, that, if they're going to eat a piece of cheese—literally, once a week, they can have a piece of cheese, which is about a centimetre by a centimetre by a centimetre. And, of course, this also has an enormous impact on their health and mental well-being as they grow older, particularly teenagers, young adults going out, having a social life, wanting to be part of normal society and just not being able to join in with the pint in the pub, the pizza down the local takeaway, or whatever it might be. 

And the other really shocking thing that I found out was that, actually, from birth, the babies have to have specialised milk, and that milk is very often not on the NHS, it's eye-wateringly expensive, and, worst of all, it's incredibly hard to get. Now, Minister, if this is something that the lack of which would be detrimental to somebody's life and long-term well-being—. Will you please also ask your officials to look at this supply situation? Because to deny a baby the right food from the moment it's born all the way through its growing life, where parents are struggling to either afford the right milk, this synthetic milk that's made, or can't even get it—because you can't order it on Amazon or whatever—is truly shocking, because that young child will actually just develop these high levels of amino acids, and, of course, in the longer term, will need more and more help from the state. So, we need to keep them as healthy as possible. And there's also just something so unfair about having a perfectly lovely little baby and not being able to get the food it needs to have as good a life as it possibly can have. 

Wel, diolch am hynny, oherwydd mae'n ateb eithaf cadarnhaol mewn gwirionedd. Fi yw cadeirydd presennol y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar glefydau prin ac amddifad yma, a chefais sioc mewn gwirionedd pan gyfarfûm â grŵp cyfan o bobl gyda PKU, oherwydd nid dim ond—. Credaf ichi ei galw'n 'drefn eithaf llym'. Dychmygwch dreulio eich bywyd cyfan yn byw ar gawl a diodydd, gyda'r anfantais ychwanegol eu bod, mae'n debyg, yn blasu'n ffiaidd. Cefais gynnig sampl; fe wrthodais mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd gallwn ei arogli cyn i mi fynd yn agos ato. Ac nid yn unig hynny. Roedd y bobl hyn yn dangos i mi, pobl â'r cyflwr, os ydynt yn bwyta darn o gaws—yn llythrennol, unwaith yr wythnos, gallant gael darn o gaws, sydd tua centimedr wrth gentimedr wrth gentimedr. Ac wrth gwrs, mae'n cael effaith enfawr ar eu hiechyd a'u llesiant meddyliol hefyd wrth iddynt dyfu'n hŷn, yn enwedig pobl yn eu harddegau, oedolion ifanc yn mynd allan, yn cael bywyd cymdeithasol, yn dymuno bod yn rhan o gymdeithas normal ac yn methu ymuno â'r peint yn y dafarn, y pizza yn y tecawê lleol, neu beth bynnag y bo.  

A'r peth brawychus arall a welais oedd bod yn rhaid i'r babanod gael llaeth arbenigol ar ôl cael eu geni, ac yn aml nid yw'r llaeth hwnnw ar gael gan y GIG, mae'n hynod o ddrud ac yn waeth na dim, mae'n anodd iawn ei gael. Nawr, Weinidog, os yw hwn yn rhywbeth angenrheidiol i fywyd a llesiant hirdymor rhywun—. A wnewch chi ofyn i'ch swyddogion edrych ar y sefyllfa o ran y cyflenwad? Oherwydd mae gwrthod y bwyd cywir i faban o'r foment y mae'n cael ei eni, lle mae rhieni'n ei chael hi'n anodd naill ai i fforddio'r llaeth cywir, y llaeth synthetig hwn sy'n cael ei greu, neu'n methu cael gafael arno hyd yn oed—oherwydd ni allwch ei archebu ar Amazon neu beth bynnag—yn wirioneddol frawychus, oherwydd bydd y plentyn ifanc hwnnw'n datblygu lefelau uchel o asidau amino, ac wrth gwrs, yn fwy hirdymor, bydd angen mwy a mwy o gymorth gan y wladwriaeth. Felly, mae angen inni eu cadw mor iach â phosibl. Ac mae yna rywbeth mor annheg hefyd ynglŷn â chael babi bach hollol hyfryd a methu cael y bwyd sydd ei angen arno i gael bywyd cystal ag y gall ei gael.  

I'm more than happy for the conversation I've offered with officials in the health service to include this specific issue around early milk supply as well. And I think there's something about—. It's a choice for the Member whether she wants to write to me in her capacity as the spokesperson for her party, or in her role as chair of the cross-party group. I'm happy to engage in either way, but I'd want to be able to share information, because I know there are other Members in this place, across parties, who take an interest in this issue as well. 

Rwy'n fwy na pharod i gael y sgwrs rwyf wedi'i chynnig gyda swyddogion yn y gwasanaeth iechyd i gynnwys y mater penodol hwn ynghylch cyflenwad llaeth cynnar hefyd. Ac rwy'n credu bod yna rywbeth am—. Croeso i'r Aelod ddewis a hoffai ysgrifennu ataf yn rhinwedd ei swydd fel llefarydd ei phlaid, neu yn rhinwedd ei rôl fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol. Rwy'n hapus i ymgysylltu y naill ffordd neu'r llall, ond buaswn eisiau gallu rhannu gwybodaeth, oherwydd gwn fod gan Aelodau eraill yn y lle hwn, ar draws y pleidiau, ddiddordeb yn y mater hefyd.

Okay. So, I'd like you to work one more miracle, and that's about a drug called Kuvan. Now, Kuvan is to people with PKU what Orkambi is to other people with conditions. Now, we've been waiting for 12 years for the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence to really get to grips with Kuvan. Earlier this month, Jeremy Hunt, the former health Secretary, called on Matt Hancock, the current holder of the post, to use the same magic to secure access to Kuvan that he used to give the go-ahead for Orkambi for cystic fibrosis. And there is a legal challenge going on by a PKU sufferer in England, currently, against NICE. It is costly, but it would make a dramatic difference to the lives of those small handfuls of people who have this really horrible condition. Minister, you're always saying that you want the NHS in Wales to follow a different path, you strive to try to be a lot more inclusive, in your view, more equitable. Will you have a real go at this, and would you consider trying to move it so that this drug, which is available in all the nations of the European Union other than Poland—I will exclude Poland—and the UK can be prescribed to patients here in Wales? Small numbers—but we can't just ignore the rare and orphan diseases and conditions simply because there aren't masses of people who need those. And you proved it with Orkambi; let's do it with Kuvan, please.

Iawn. Felly, hoffwn i chi gyflawni un wyrth arall, ac mae'n ymwneud â chyffur o'r enw Kuvan. Nawr, mae Kuvan, i bobl gyda PKU fel Orkambi i bobl â chyflyrau eraill. Nawr, rydym wedi bod yn aros ers 12 mlynedd i'r Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Ragoriaeth mewn Iechyd a Gofal fynd i'r afael o ddifrif â Kuvan. Yn gynharach y mis hwn, galwodd Jeremy Hunt, y cyn Ysgrifennydd iechyd, ar Matt Hancock, deilydd presennol y swydd, i ddefnyddio'r un swyn i sicrhau mynediad at Kuvan ag y defnyddiodd i roi sêl bendith i Orkambi ar gyfer ffeibrosis systig. Ac mae dioddefwr PKU yn Lloegr ar hyn o bryd wedi cyflwyno her gyfreithiol yn erbyn y Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Ragoriaeth mewn Iechyd a Gofal. Mae'n gostus, ond byddai'n gwneud gwahaniaeth dramatig i fywydau'r dyrnaid bach o bobl sydd â'r cyflwr ofnadwy hwn. Weinidog, rydych bob amser yn dweud eich bod eisiau i'r GIG yng Nghymru ddilyn llwybr gwahanol, rydych yn ymdrechu i geisio bod yn llawer mwy cynhwysol, ac yn eich barn chi, yn decach. A wnewch chi wneud ymdrech go iawn ar hyn, ac a fyddech yn ystyried ceisio ei symud fel y gellir rhoi'r cyffur hwn, sydd ar gael yn holl wledydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd heblaw am Wlad Pwyl—rwyf am ddiystyru Gwlad Pwyl—a'r DU, ar bresgripsiwn i gleifion yma yng Nghymru? Niferoedd bach—ond ni allwn anwybyddu'r cyflyrau a'r clefydau prin ac amddifad oherwydd nad oes llu o bobl sydd eu hangen. Ac rydych wedi'i brofi gydag Orkambi; gadewch i ni wneud yr un peth gyda Kuvan, os gwelwch yn dda.

14:35

Well, I'm broadly aware of Kuvan—it's an issue that I've seen in some of the correspondence that I've had—but I'm not so aware that I could give a pledge to determine an outcome. If, however, the manufacturers want to submit for appraisal through our own appraisal process—the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group—they are free to do so. I think the challenge about Jeremy Hunt calling on Matt Hancock to do something shows you something about the danger of having former Ministers on backbenches. But it wasn't magic that got Orkambi over the line, it was a hard, commercial conversation, because the manufacturers of that drug weren't prepared to move until a very long, damaging and unpleasant campaign—which I think damaged a number of families in the process—to actually change the offer they were prepared to make to the national health service.

And this isn't just an issue for one particular form of medication. It's pretty common, not just for new treatments for, if you like, more common conditions, but certainly on rarer conditions as well. And, in fact, in the new treatment fund, which we're celebrating three years of making a real difference, many of the treatments that are brought online are for rare conditions—rare conditions that are now supported because there's a NICE appraisal. And, often, it's that initial cost to health boards, where there's a challenge that the new treatment fund helps with to get it available more broadly within the service. And we'll face this challenge in the future with advanced therapies too. So, I'm more than happy if the Member wants to write to me, and I'll be honest about where we are in the appraisal process and the things that we can do and are prepared to do here in Wales. And I'm more than happy to maintain that level of honesty with her, both within and outside the Chamber.

Wel, rwy'n gwybod am Kuvan yn fras—mae'n fater rwyf wedi'i weld mewn rhywfaint o'r ohebiaeth rwyf wedi'i chael—ond nid wyf yn credu y gallwn ymrwymo i benderfynu ar ganlyniad. Fodd bynnag, os yw'r gweithgynhyrchwyr eisiau cyflwyno arfarniad drwy ein proses arfarnu ein hunain—Grŵp Strategaeth Feddyginiaethau Cymru—maent yn rhydd i wneud hynny. Rwy'n credu bod yr her sy'n ymwneud â Jeremy Hunt yn galw ar Matt Hancock i wneud rhywbeth yn dweud rhywbeth wrthoch chi am y perygl o gael cyn Weinidogion ar feinciau cefn. Ond llwyddwyd i gael Orkambi, nid drwy swyn, ond drwy sgwrs galed, fasnachol, oherwydd nid oedd gweithgynhyrchwyr y cyffur hwnnw'n barod i symud cyn yr ymgyrch hir, niweidiol ac annymunol iawn a gafwyd—ymgyrch a niweidiodd nifer o deuluoedd yn y broses yn fy marn i—i newid y cynnig roeddent yn barod i'w wneud i'r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol mewn gwirionedd.

Ac nid mewn perthynas ag un math penodol o feddyginiaeth yn unig y mae hon yn broblem. Mae'n eithaf cyffredin, nid yn unig ar gyfer triniaethau newydd at gyflyrau mwy cyffredin, os mynnwch, ond yn sicr at gyflyrau mwy anghyffredin hefyd. Ac mewn gwirionedd, yn y gronfa triniaethau newydd, lle rydym yn dathlu tair blynedd o wneud gwahaniaeth go iawn, mae llawer o'r triniaethau a gyflwynir yn rhai ar gyfer cyflyrau prin—cyflyrau prin sydd bellach yn cael eu cefnogi oherwydd bod arfarniad gan y Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Ragoriaeth mewn Iechyd a Gofal. Ac yn aml, mae'n ymwneud â'r gost gychwynnol honno i fyrddau iechyd, lle ceir her y mae'r gronfa triniaethau newydd yn helpu gyda hi i sicrhau bod y driniaeth ar gael yn fwy eang o fewn y gwasanaeth. A byddwn yn wynebu'r her hon yn y dyfodol gyda therapïau uwch hefyd. Felly, rwy'n fwy na hapus os yw'r Aelod eisiau ysgrifennu ataf, a byddaf yn onest ynglŷn â lle rydym arni yn y broses arfarnu a'r pethau y gallwn eu gwneud ac rydym yn barod i'w gwneud yma yng Nghymru. Ac rwy'n fwy na bodlon cynnal y lefel honno o onestrwydd gyda hi, o fewn y Siambr a thu hwnt.

Is it still the Welsh Government's policy that Wales should have fewer accident and emergency departments, so that staff can be concentrated on fewer sites—yes or no?

Ai polisi Llywodraeth Cymru o hyd yw y dylai fod gan Gymru lai o adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, fel y gellir canolbwyntio staff ar lai o safleoedd—ie neu na?

It is the policy of the Welsh Government that care should be provided as close to home as possible. And there is a recognition that, for some services, that will mean fewer specialist centres. But, in terms of any particular point about how many emergency departments there could or should be, the Welsh Government doesn't have a magic figure in its mind about the number of departments there could or should be. These are difficult questions, which are reliant both on the need of the population, but also on our ability to recruit the right numbers of staff to provide the right service that people rightly expect.

Mae'n bolisi gan Lywodraeth Cymru y dylid darparu gofal mor agos i gartref â phosibl. Ac mae cydnabyddiaeth y bydd hynny, yn achos rhai gwasanaethau, yn golygu llai o ganolfannau arbenigol. Ond o ran unrhyw bwynt penodol ynglŷn â faint o adrannau achosion brys a allai neu a ddylai fod, nid oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru ffigur hud mewn golwg ynglŷn â nifer yr adrannau a allai neu a ddylai fod. Mae'r rhain yn gwestiynau anodd, sy'n dibynnu ar angen y boblogaeth, yn ogystal ag ar ein gallu i recriwtio'r niferoedd cywir o staff i ddarparu'r gwasanaeth cywir y mae pobl yn ei ddisgwyl, a hynny'n briodol.

Do you agree with what the First Minister said yesterday, that it should be the decision made by doctors about the future of the A&E department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital?

A ydych yn cytuno â'r hyn a ddywedodd y Prif Weinidog ddoe, sef mai meddygon a ddylai wneud y penderfyniad ynghylch dyfodol yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg?

Well, the decision made about the future of the Royal Glamorgan Hospital, which we'll be debating later on today, is one where the health board have a responsibility to make a choice. They do need to listen to and engage with their medical workforce to understand what doctors are saying about the safety of that service. That's a short-term challenge and a longer term one. But they also of course have a responsibility to listen to the public. And that's not just about the numbers of people who are engaged and genuinely anxious about the future of services. They've got to be able to listen to those concerns, those fears—because, actually, the health board themselves may not know everything about the direct impact upon the communities they serve, the challenges about access, about equity—and to be able to listen to what the public are saying and to respond to that in providing any answer for the future. And of course I expect not just members of the public, but their elected representatives too, to ask those questions. And I expect those questions to be answered, in a way that is genuinely open and transparent, about any choice the health board make in providing the sort of high-quality and safe service that people in every part of Wales are entitled to expect.

Wel, mae'r penderfyniad a wnaed am ddyfodol Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, y byddwn yn ei drafod yn nes ymlaen heddiw, yn un lle mae gan y bwrdd iechyd gyfrifoldeb i wneud dewis. Mae angen iddynt wrando ar eu gweithlu meddygol ac ymgysylltu â hwy i ddeall yr hyn y mae meddygon yn ei ddweud am ddiogelwch y gwasanaeth hwnnw. Mae honno'n her yn y tymor byr ac yn y tymor hwy. Ond mae ganddynt gyfrifoldeb hefyd wrth gwrs i wrando ar y cyhoedd. Ac nid yw hynny'n ymwneud yn unig â niferoedd y bobl sy'n gysylltiedig â hyn ac sy'n wirioneddol bryderus am ddyfodol gwasanaethau. Mae'n rhaid iddynt allu gwrando ar y pryderon hynny, yr ofnau hynny—oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, efallai na fydd y bwrdd iechyd eu hunain yn gwybod popeth am yr effaith uniongyrchol ar y cymunedau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu, yr heriau ynghylch mynediad, ynghylch tegwch—a gallu gwrando ar yr hyn y mae'r cyhoedd yn ei ddweud ac ymateb i hynny wrth ddarparu unrhyw ateb ar gyfer y dyfodol. Ac wrth gwrs, rwy'n disgwyl i aelodau'r cyhoedd, a'u cynrychiolwyr etholedig hefyd, ofyn y cwestiynau hynny. Ac rwy'n disgwyl i'r cwestiynau hynny gael eu hateb, mewn ffordd sy'n wirioneddol agored a thryloyw, am unrhyw ddewis y mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn ei wneud o ran darparu'r math o wasanaeth diogel o ansawdd uchel y mae gan bobl ym mhob rhan o Gymru hawl i'w ddisgwyl.

I agree with you that the public should be listened to. It's a real shame that the 60,000 responses to the consultation that went into the south Wales programme, back in 2014, weren't listened to. 

Minister, I can reveal, this afternoon, that, in the last couple of hours, the overwhelming majority of consultants at the Royal Glamorgan have agreed, in a meeting, that a full 24-hour A&E should remain at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. Now, both yourself and the First Minister have said that this decision needs to be led by doctors. In the light of the views of those doctors, will you now commit to restoring A&E at the Royal Glamorgan and guaranteeing its long-term future?   

Rwy'n cytuno â chi y dylid gwrando ar y cyhoedd. Mae'n drueni mawr na wrandawyd ar y 60,000 o ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad a gynhaliwyd ar raglen de Cymru yn ôl yn 2014.

Weinidog, gallaf ddatgelu, y prynhawn yma, fod y mwyafrif llethol o'r meddygon ymgynghorol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, wedi cytuno yn ystod y ddwy awr ddiwethaf, mewn cyfarfod, y dylid parhau i ddarparu gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys 24 awr llawn yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Nawr, rydych chi a'r Prif Weinidog wedi dweud bod angen i'r penderfyniad hwn gael ei arwain gan feddygon. Yng ngoleuni barn y meddygon hynny, a wnewch chi ymrwymo yn awr i adfer yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg a gwarantu ei dyfodol hirdymor?

14:40

Well, actually, the health board themselves have made it clear in the statement they made yesterday that they don't have a final answer to what should happen. They do, though, have an unavoidable challenge about the future safety of that service, and that is because the last permanent consultant at the Royal Glamorgan is leaving at the end of March. Now, you can't ignore the reality of what that means for the future safety of the service. And for all those people who, understandably—within this Chamber and outside it—want to have a 24-hour service remain in the emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan and consultant-led, that has to rub up against the reality of whether or not they can recruit staff to deliver that service safely and effectively—

Wel, mewn gwirionedd, mae'r bwrdd iechyd ei hun wedi egluro yn y datganiad a wnaethant ddoe nad oes ganddynt ateb terfynol i'r hyn a ddylai ddigwydd. Fodd bynnag, mae ganddynt her anochel ynghylch diogelwch y gwasanaeth hwnnw yn y dyfodol, a hynny am fod y meddyg ymgynghorol parhaol olaf yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn gadael ar ddiwedd mis Mawrth. Nawr, ni allwch anwybyddu realiti'r hyn y mae hynny'n ei olygu i ddiogelwch y gwasanaeth yn y dyfodol. Ac i'r holl bobl sydd, yn ddealladwy—yn y Siambr hon a thu allan—eisiau gweld adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys 24 awr dan arweiniad meddyg ymgynghorol yn parhau yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, rhaid gosod hynny yn erbyn realiti eu gallu neu eu hanallu i recriwtio staff i ddarparu'r gwasanaeth hwnnw'n ddiogel ac yn effeithiol—

You need to change the south Wales programme if you're to have a chance of recruiting.

Mae angen i chi newid rhaglen de Cymru i gael gobaith o recriwtio.

And the problem—the problem that all of us face is that, if we can't recruit the right number of permanent consultants to deliver that service, then we won't be able to do that. And it's not simply a matter of saying the south Wales programme is to blame. That doesn't resolve the problem. It would just avoid the problem we face, and, actually, we all know that if you ignore safety concerns that are provided by staff, by people delivering that care—if you fail to deal with that challenge—then, actually, you will end up providing an unsafe service, harm being caused, and then people concerned will quite rightly say, 'Why didn't you do something about it? Why didn't the health board do something about it?'

And this isn't a question of the amount of effort that goes into recruitment. Emergency medicine is a shortage area of practice. Right across the United Kingdom there are challenges. This is not a situation that is unique to one part of Wales. And I understand why people have strong feelings, and I don't ask people to park their feelings or to avoid the challenges that exist. But I do want us to have a debate that is honest about the real challenges that we face and not to try to pretend to ourselves or anybody else that there is an easy answer—that, if only people tried harder, all of the challenges wouldn't exist. 

A'r broblem—y broblem sy'n ein hwynebu ni i gyd yw, os na allwn recriwtio'r nifer iawn o feddygon ymgynghorol parhaol i ddarparu'r gwasanaeth hwnnw, ni fyddwn yn gallu gwneud hynny. Ac nid yw'n fater o ddweud yn syml mai rhaglen de Cymru sydd ar fai. Nid yw hynny'n datrys y broblem. Ni fyddai ond yn osgoi'r broblem rydym yn ei hwynebu, ac mewn gwirionedd, rydym i gyd yn gwybod, os ydych yn anwybyddu pryderon diogelwch mewn perthynas â staff, mewn perthynas â'r bobl sy'n darparu'r gofal hwnnw—os ydych yn methu mynd i'r afael â'r her honno—fe fyddwch yn darparu gwasanaeth anniogel yn y pen draw, bydd niwed yn cael ei achosi, a bydd pobl yn dweud, a hynny'n gwbl briodol, 'Pam na wnaethoch chi rywbeth yn ei gylch? Pam na wnaeth y bwrdd iechyd rywbeth yn ei gylch?'

Ac nid yw'n gwestiwn o faint o ymdrech a wneir i recriwtio. Mae meddygaeth frys yn faes ymarfer sy'n brin o staff. Mae yna heriau ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig. Nid yw hon yn sefyllfa sy'n unigryw i un rhan o Gymru. Ac rwy'n deall pam fod gan bobl deimladau cryf, ac nid wyf yn gofyn i bobl roi eu teimladau o'r neilltu nac osgoi'r heriau sy'n bodoli. Ond rwyf eisiau inni gael dadl onest am yr heriau gwirioneddol rydym yn eu hwynebu a pheidio â cheisio esgus i ni'n hunain nac i neb arall fod yna ateb hawdd—sef na fyddai'r holl heriau'n bodoli pe bai pobl ond yn ymdrechu'n galetach.

Llefarydd Plaid Brexit, Caroline Jones.    

Brexit Party spokesperson, Caroline Jones. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, just a few days ago, we marked Time to Talk Day here in Wales, aimed at getting us, as a nation, talking about our mental health, but more importantly helping to change attitudes and remove the stigma that still surrounds mental health, and, while we have made some progress, it's sadly not enough.

The annual population survey ranks Wales behind all other UK nations for measures of mental well-being. One in four of us will experience mental ill health, yet a staggering 90 per cent of people have been treated negatively because they have mental health issues. Minister, what more can the Welsh Government do to encourage more positive attitudes towards mental health issues to get more of us talking about our own mental health issues in order to break down barriers? 

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, ychydig ddyddiau'n ôl, roeddem yn nodi Diwrnod Amser i Siarad yma yng Nghymru, gyda'r nod o sicrhau ein bod, fel cenedl, yn siarad am ein hiechyd meddwl, ond yn bwysicach, yn helpu i newid agweddau a chael gwared ar y stigma sy'n dal i fodoli ynghylch iechyd meddwl, ac er ein bod wedi gwneud rhywfaint o gynnydd, yn anffodus nid yw'n ddigon.

Mae'r arolwg blynyddol o'r boblogaeth yn rhestru Cymru y tu ôl i holl wledydd eraill y DU mewn perthynas â mesurau llesiant meddyliol. Bydd un o bob pedwar ohonom yn dioddef salwch meddwl, ond eto mae 90 y cant o bobl wedi cael eu trin yn negyddol oherwydd bod ganddynt broblemau iechyd meddwl. Weinidog, beth arall y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i annog agweddau mwy cadarnhaol tuag at faterion iechyd meddwl er mwyn cael mwy ohonom i siarad am ein problemau iechyd meddwl ein hunain er mwyn chwalu rhwystrau?

Well, as you know, we continue to part-fund the Time to Change Wales campaign. That has actually made a difference in persuading people to talk more openly and to be more understanding about mental health challenges, because almost all of us, if we haven't had a mental health challenge ourselves, know someone who has. This isn't an uncommon challenge and issue. So, it's not just about funding the campaign; it is about the way that we make choices and the way that we behave.

And, in fact, in the last Assembly term, Members from all of the parties in the Chamber, at that time, spoke about their own challenges. And I think that was a really important moment for this place, to have elected representatives openly talk about the challenge they face, but the fact that, despite that, they still go on and achieve. And there's a challenge here about recognising that having a mental health condition does not mean that the rest of your life needs to stop. We don't say that when people have physical health challenges either, and it's about a much more open and understanding conversation. But this is cultural change. The Government is part of leading that, but all of the answers certainly don't rest in our hands. 

Wel, fel y gwyddoch, rydym yn parhau i ariannu ymgyrch Amser i Newid Cymru yn rhannol. Mae'r ymgyrch honno wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth mewn gwirionedd o ran perswadio pobl i siarad yn fwy agored ac i ddeall heriau iechyd meddwl yn well, oherwydd mae bron bob un ohonom, os nad ydym wedi wynebu her iechyd meddwl ein hunain, yn adnabod rhywun sydd wedi gwneud hynny. Nid yw hon yn her nac yn broblem anghyffredin. Felly, mae'n ymwneud â mwy nag ariannu'r ymgyrch; mae'n ymwneud â'r ffordd rydym yn gwneud dewisiadau a'r ffordd rydym yn ymddwyn.

Ac yn wir, yn ystod tymor diwethaf y Cynulliad, siaradodd Aelodau o bob plaid yn y Siambr, ar yr adeg honno, am eu heriau eu hunain. Ac rwy'n credu bod honno'n foment wirioneddol bwysig i'r lle hwn, y ffaith bod cynrychiolwyr etholedig wedi siarad yn agored am yr her sy'n eu hwynebu, a'u bod wedi mynd ymlaen i gyflawni er gwaethaf hynny. Ac mae yna her yma ynglŷn â chydnabod nad yw cael cyflwr iechyd meddwl yn golygu bod angen i weddill eich bywyd ddod i stop. Nid ydym yn dweud hynny pan fydd pobl yn wynebu heriau iechyd corfforol chwaith, ac mae'n ymwneud â sgwrs lawer mwy agored a chydymdeimladol. Ond newid diwylliannol yw hwn. Mae'r Llywodraeth yn rhan o arwain y newid hwnnw, ond yn sicr nid yw'r atebion i gyd yn ein dwylo ni.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. When it comes to changing attitudes to mental health issues, we have to lead by example, and we have certainly set an example here in the Assembly, with Members talking freely and openly about their own health issues. Unfortunately, the positive example we have set does not pervade the public sector as a whole. I recently had to represent an elderly constituent who was facing eviction by his housing association due to the cleanliness issue of his home. My staff had to point out that this gentleman had severe mental health issues, along with other physical health issues, and was receiving zero support. Thankfully, in this case, the tenant was not evicted and is now receiving the help that he needed. However, had we not been involved, I have no doubt that this elderly gentleman would have ended up on the street, homeless. We know that mental health issues are prevalent in our homeless population. Minister, what guidance can the Welsh Government issue to local government and registered social landlords to increase awareness of mental health issues and ensure people with mental health issues receive the support they need, and staff the training that they also need? Thank you.

Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Pan ddaw'n fater o newid agweddau at broblemau iechyd meddwl, mae'n rhaid inni arwain drwy esiampl, ac rydym yn sicr wedi gosod esiampl yma yn y Cynulliad, gydag Aelodau'n siarad yn rhydd ac yn agored am eu problemau iechyd eu hunain. Yn anffodus, nid yw'r enghraifft gadarnhaol rydym wedi'i gosod yn treiddio i'r sector cyhoeddus yn ei gyfanrwydd. Yn ddiweddar, bu'n rhaid i mi gynrychioli etholwr oedrannus a oedd yn wynebu cael ei droi allan gan ei gymdeithas dai oherwydd problemau glanweithdra yn ei gartref. Roedd yn rhaid i fy staff nodi bod gan y gŵr bonheddig hwn broblemau iechyd meddwl difrifol, ynghyd â phroblemau iechyd corfforol eraill, ac nad oedd yn cael unrhyw gymorth. Yn yr achos hwn, diolch byth, ni chafodd y tenant ei droi allan ac mae bellach yn cael y cymorth roedd ei angen. Fodd bynnag, pe na baem wedi ymyrryd, nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth y byddai'r gŵr oedrannus hwn yn cysgu ar y stryd, yn ddigartref. Gwyddom fod problemau iechyd meddwl yn gyffredin ymhlith ein poblogaeth ddigartref. Weinidog, pa ganllawiau y gall Llywodraeth Cymru eu rhoi i lywodraeth leol a landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig er mwyn codi ymwybyddiaeth o broblemau iechyd meddwl a sicrhau bod pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn cael y cymorth y maent ei angen, a bod staff yn cael yr hyfforddiant y maent hwythau hefyd ei angen? Diolch.

14:45

This isn't just a single-shot measure, because actually we do know that, across both local authorities and housing association partners, there is a growing level of awareness about the stress and mental health challenge that people face for a variety of reasons. It's not just about the challenges that many people face, for example, about changes in the benefit system; real anxiety. Money worries often lead to mental health challenges. It's not just about the homeless population; people who actually live in homes and have jobs also face some of the same challenges.

So, there's no perfect way of looking at it, but I think you'll find that housing associations in particular have a pretty well-structured national campaign where they're looking to raise awareness both within their own memberships and the wider landlord sector about the challenges people do face. It's a national conversation, it takes place here in the Assembly, in public services, but also in workplaces too. Because I think we need to accept that, for all that we want to achieve, we actually do need to get alongside the public to make the sort of difference that the Member refers to.

Nid un ateb sydd i hyn, oherwydd mewn gwirionedd rydym yn gwybod, ar draws awdurdodau lleol a phartneriaid cymdeithasau tai, fod yna lefel gynyddol o ymwybyddiaeth am heriau iechyd meddwl a straen y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu am amryw o resymau. Mae'n ymwneud â mwy na'r heriau y mae llawer o bobl yn eu hwynebu, er enghraifft, am newidiadau yn y system budd-daliadau; pryder gwirioneddol. Mae pryderon ariannol yn aml yn arwain at heriau iechyd meddwl. Mae'n ymwneud â mwy na'r boblogaeth ddigartref yn unig; mae pobl sy'n byw mewn cartrefi ac sydd â swyddi hefyd yn wynebu rhai o'r un heriau.

Felly, nid oes un ffordd berffaith o edrych ar y sefyllfa, ond rwy'n credu y byddwch yn gweld bod gan gymdeithasau tai yn arbennig ymgyrch genedlaethol sydd wedi'i strwythuro'n dda lle maent yn ceisio codi ymwybyddiaeth ymysg eu haelodau eu hunain a'r sector landlordiaid yn ehangach am yr heriau y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu. Mae'n sgwrs genedlaethol, mae'n digwydd yma yn y Cynulliad, mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ond hefyd mewn gweithleoedd. Oherwydd rwy'n credu bod angen inni dderbyn, er cymaint rydym eisiau ei gyflawni, fod angen inni sefyll ochr yn ochr â'r cyhoedd i wneud y math o wahaniaeth y mae'r Aelod yn cyfeirio ato.

Therapïau Seicolegol
Psychological Therapies

3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am therapïau seicolegol yng ngogledd Cymru? OAQ55073

3. Will the Minister make a statement on psychological therapies in north Wales? OAQ55073

The health board recently commissioned an independent review of its psychological therapies provision as part of its own improvement programme. The review findings highlighted examples of positive practice but also made a number of recommendations for urgent improvement, which I expect to be implemented as a matter of priority.  

Yn ddiweddar, comisiynodd y bwrdd iechyd adolygiad annibynnol o'i ddarpariaeth o therapïau seicolegol fel rhan o'i raglen ei hun ar gyfer gwella. Tynnodd canfyddiadau'r adolygiad sylw at enghreifftiau o arferion cadarnhaol ond gwnaeth nifer o argymhellion ar gyfer gwelliant brys hefyd, ac rwy'n disgwyl i'r rhain gael eu rhoi ar waith fel mater o flaenoriaeth.

Thank you for that response, Minister. As you will know, I've been greatly concerned to read the conclusions in that report, and I've read it from cover to cover. It talks about serious unwarranted variation in the provision, access, practice and culture amongst the delivery of psychological therapies in north Wales. Unacceptably long waits in some areas; pathways that are under-resourced and not fit for purpose; an enormous data deficit; and, amongst staff, a sense of despondency and helplessness as to how the organisation might lift itself into a better place.

That, to me, makes pretty terrible reading for an organisation's psychological therapies, when we consider that the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has been in special measures for almost five years. We were told when it was placed in special measures that there would be a sense of urgency in terms of improving mental health services for patients in north Wales, and I know that that's an ambition that you and I both share. The self-evaluation reports that are produced by the health board, and then reported through its governance processes, including to the Welsh Government, are completely at odds with the findings of the psychological therapies review.

I want to know what action you will now take as Minister to make sure that the governance systems in the health board are fit for purpose; that when reports like this are commissioned they are absolutely shared in a timely manner with the Welsh Government, with Healthcare Inspectorate Wales, and the Wales Audit Office given the advice that they provide to you about special measures; and I want to know what assurances you can give to the people of north Wales that these issues will be remedied very quickly, and that we won't be here in another five years looking at a similar report again.

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Fel y gwyddoch, rwyf wedi bod yn bryderus iawn o ddarllen casgliadau'r adroddiad hwnnw, ac rwyf wedi'i ddarllen o glawr i glawr. Mae'n sôn am amrywiadau difrifol a di-alw-amdanynt yn y ddarpariaeth, mynediad, arferion a diwylliant ymhlith y rhai sy'n darparu therapïau seicolegol yng ngogledd Cymru. Amseroedd aros annerbyniol o hir mewn rhai ardaloedd; llwybrau nad ydynt yn cael digon o adnoddau ac nad ydynt yn addas i'r diben; diffyg data enfawr; ac ymhlith staff, ymdeimlad o anobaith a diymadferthedd ynglŷn â sut y gallai'r sefydliad wella ei hun.

Mae hynny, i mi, yn gwneud deunydd darllen pur ofnadwy i therapïau seicolegol sefydliad, pan ystyriwn fod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi bod yn destun mesurau arbennig ers bron i bum mlynedd. Dywedwyd wrthym pan gafodd ei wneud yn destun mesurau arbennig y byddai ymdeimlad o frys o ran gwella gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl i gleifion yng ngogledd Cymru, a gwn fod hwnnw'n uchelgais rydych chi a minnau'n ei rannu. Mae'r adroddiadau hunanwerthuso a gynhyrchir gan y bwrdd iechyd, ac a adroddir wedyn drwy ei brosesau llywodraethu, gan gynnwys i Lywodraeth Cymru, yn gwbl groes i ganfyddiadau'r adolygiad o therapïau seicolegol.

Hoffwn wybod pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd yn awr fel Gweinidog i sicrhau bod systemau llywodraethu'r bwrdd iechyd yn addas i'r diben; pan fydd adroddiadau fel hyn yn cael eu comisiynu, eu bod yn cael eu rhannu'n brydlon gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, gydag Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru o ystyried y cyngor y maent yn ei roi i chi am fesurau arbennig; ac rwyf eisiau gwybod pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i bobl gogledd Cymru y bydd y materion hyn yn cael eu hunioni'n gyflym iawn, ac na fyddwn yma ymhen pum mlynedd arall yn edrych ar adroddiad tebyg eto.

I'm happy to confirm something of a timeline that may provide some assurance and information for people who are concerned. So, the health board started to undertake the review from January last year. The report was received in September/October. It was due to go to the mental health partnership board in September/October, but that was then pulled as a result of there being apologies when people weren't able to attend the meeting. It did then go to that partnership board meeting in November last year. And after a verbal update provided to the board's quality and safety meeting, it's then gone to a formal discussion at the meeting at the end of January, where independent members commented upon the report and they put in place the range of measures to implement recommendations.

The oversight and the terms of reference for the task and finish group that will look through that will be openly discussed and endorsed and reported back, for oversight, to the quality and safety committee. So, it is going through the board process. Indeed, the report and the response to recommendations will go through the final board reporting mechanisms in March of this year, I understand. So, it is being openly dealt with. There is no challenge to people seeing the report and it being shared, and of course the response of the health board as well.

And in terms of the governance questions the Member raises, we know that both Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and indeed the Wales Audit Office regularly report on their views on governance structures within the health board and whether they are working effectively. I don't think this particular challenge—and it's a challenge that the health board themselves have uncovered, in terms of asking for the review and dealing with it—is a fair way to try to describe the whole picture on mental health services in north Wales. That rounded picture is provided by a range of evidence, and I will get the advice that I do usually receive from Healthcare Inspectorate Wales, the Wales Audit Office, and indeed my officials, in the normal way, and I look forward to reporting back on that in the Chamber on a number of occasions in the future.

Rwy'n hapus i gadarnhau rhyw fath o amserlen a all roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd a gwybodaeth i bobl sy'n pryderu. Felly, dechreuodd y bwrdd iechyd gynnal yr adolygiad o fis Ionawr y llynedd. Derbyniwyd yr adroddiad ym mis Medi/Hydref. Roedd i fod i fynd at y bwrdd partneriaeth iechyd meddwl ym mis Medi/Hydref, ond gohiriwyd hynny wedyn yn sgil ymddiheuriadau pan nad oedd pobl yn gallu mynychu'r cyfarfod. Yna, aeth gerbron cyfarfod o'r bwrdd partneriaeth ym mis Tachwedd y llynedd. Ac ar ôl i ddiweddariad llafar gael ei ddarparu yng nghyfarfod ansawdd a diogelwch y bwrdd, roedd yn destun trafodaeth ffurfiol yn y cyfarfod ar ddiwedd mis Ionawr, lle gwnaeth aelodau annibynnol sylwadau ar yr adroddiad a rhoi ystod o fesurau ar waith i weithredu argymhellion.

Bydd y trosolwg a'r cylch gorchwyl ar gyfer y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen a fydd yn edrych ar hynny'n cael eu trafod a'u cymeradwyo'n agored a'u hadrodd yn ôl i'r pwyllgor ansawdd a diogelwch eu goruchwylio. Felly, mae'n mynd drwy broses y bwrdd. Yn wir, bydd yr adroddiad a'r ymateb i'r argymhellion yn mynd drwy fecanweithiau adrodd terfynol y bwrdd ym mis Mawrth eleni, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf. Felly, mae'n cael ei drafod yn agored. Nid oes unrhyw her i rwystro pobl rhag gweld yr adroddiad a'i rannu, ac ymateb y bwrdd iechyd hefyd wrth gwrs.

Ac o ran y cwestiynau llywodraethu y mae'r Aelod yn eu codi, rydym yn gwybod bod Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru yn wir, yn adrodd yn rheolaidd ar eu barn ar strwythurau llywodraethu o fewn y bwrdd iechyd ac a ydynt yn gweithio'n effeithiol. Nid wyf yn credu bod yr her arbennig hon—ac mae'n her y mae'r bwrdd iechyd ei hun wedi'i datgelu, o ran gofyn am yr adolygiad ac ymdrin ag ef—yn ffordd deg o geisio disgrifio'r darlun cyfan ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl yng ngogledd Cymru. Darperir y darlun cyflawn hwnnw gan ystod o dystiolaeth, a byddaf yn cael y cyngor a dderbyniaf fel arfer gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, a fy swyddogion yn wir, yn y ffordd arferol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at adrodd yn ôl ar hynny yn y Siambr ar nifer o achlysuron yn y dyfodol.

14:50
Lefelau Staffio
Staffing Levels

4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am lefelau staffio mewn lleoliadau gofal iechyd cymunedol? OAQ55071

4. Will the Minister make a statement on staffing levels in community health settings? OAQ55071

The number and skills of community-based, multi-professional health and care teams should be determined by local population need. We expect health boards, local authorities and other service providers to plan multi-professional teams organised around local communities and delivering co-ordinated care and support.

Dylai nifer a sgiliau timau iechyd a gofal cymunedol amlbroffesiynol gael eu pennu yn ôl angen y boblogaeth leol. Rydym yn disgwyl i fyrddau iechyd, awdurdodau lleol a darparwyr gwasanaethau eraill gynllunio timau amlbroffesiynol wedi'u trefnu o amgylch cymunedau lleol a darparu gofal a chymorth cydgysylltiedig.

Thank you, Minister, for that answer. Phil Banfield from the British Medical Association recently said it's clear that the latest developments are getting worse, not better. He ended his comments by saying, unless the issue is taken seriously, there's a

'real chance of lives being needlessly lost.'

In between those two statements, he said what's important is that extra beds are put into hospitals, more staff are put on the front line in community settings to relieve the pressures, and additionally, out of the budget process, additional money made available to the health service.

Now, we know additional money has been made available to the health service through the budget process. What commitment can you give in light of these comments from the BMA about additional staff and, importantly, additional beds within our hospitals, so that lives are not 'needlessly lost', as he has said?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Yn ddiweddar, dywedodd Phil Banfield o Gymdeithas Feddygol Prydain ei bod yn amlwg fod y datblygiadau diweddaraf yn gwaethygu, ac nid yn gwella. Gorffennodd ei sylwadau drwy ddweud, os na roddir sylw difrifol i'r mater, fod 

perygl gwirioneddol y bydd bywydau'n cael eu colli'n ddiangen.

Rhwng y ddau ddatganiad, dywedodd mai'r hyn sy'n bwysig yw bod gwelyau ychwanegol yn cael eu darparu mewn ysbytai, fod mwy o staff yn cael eu rhoi ar y rheng flaen yn y gymuned i leddfu'r pwysau, ac yn ogystal, fod arian ychwanegol yn cael ei ddarparu i'r gwasanaeth iechyd drwy broses y gyllideb.

Nawr, gwyddom fod arian ychwanegol wedi'i ddarparu i'r gwasanaeth iechyd drwy broses y gyllideb. Pa ymrwymiad y gallwch ei roi yng ngoleuni'r sylwadau hyn gan Gymdeithas Feddygol Prydain am staff ychwanegol ac yn bwysig, am welyau ychwanegol yn ein hysbytai, fel nad yw 'bywydau'n cael eu colli'n ddiangen', fel y dywedodd?

Well, I think there's a challenge about where there's space and capacity created within our system. That doesn't necessarily mean those beds have to be within a hospital setting. If you look, for example, at winter capacity, it's been increased; there are bed equivalents in social care. We know a large part of the pressures at the front door of an emergency department in any of our district general hospitals actually comes from the inability to get people out of the hospital and into their own home, or into a different step-up/step-down bed.

We've lost capacity in domiciliary care, which supports people to return to their own homes. We're also facing a real challenge with the the independent sector, which provides most of our residential care as well. So, actually, having more stability within that part of our care system will make a real difference for the health service.

But we are already taking a range of measures on community facilities: the extra investment we're making into district nursing, there have been significant and sustained increases over the last six years in percentage terms; the extra money we're putting into general practice training; the extra money we're putting into pharmacy training as well.

I appreciate you weren't able to attend, but Dr Lloyd, who is now out of the room, hosted a meeting today for the launch of a multidisciplinary working in general practice settings event, hosted by the Royal Pharmaceutical Society and the Royal College of General Practitioners, and a report endorsed by both the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy and the Royal College of Occupational Therapists, and the Royal College of Nursing.

So, the approaches we're taking you can already see in different parts of the country. You'll continue to see that investment being made in the future of staff resource, so more people can receive care closer to home, and equally so we get more people out of the hospital when it's no longer the appropriate setting for the care to take place, and for them to be properly supported in their own home in a bed, whether that's in residential care or in their own home in a town or village in the rest of the country.

Wel, rwy'n credu bod her ynglŷn â lle mae gofod a chapasiti'n cael eu creu yn ein system. Nid yw hynny o reidrwydd yn golygu bod yn rhaid i'r gwelyau fod mewn ysbyty. Os edrychwch chi, er enghraifft, ar gapasiti'r gaeaf, mae wedi cael ei gynyddu; mae gwelyau cyfatebol mewn gofal cymdeithasol. Gwyddom fod rhan fawr o'r pwysau sydd wrth ddrws blaen adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ein hysbytai dosbarth cyffredinol yn deillio o'r anallu i gael pobl allan o'r ysbyty ac i'w cartref eu hunain, neu i wely gofal mwy dwys/llai dwys gwahanol.

Rydym wedi colli capasiti mewn gofal cartref, sy'n helpu pobl i ddychwelyd i'w cartrefi eu hunain. Rydym hefyd yn wynebu her go iawn gyda'r sector annibynnol, sy'n darparu'r rhan fwyaf o'n gofal preswyl hefyd. Felly, mewn gwirionedd, bydd cael mwy o sefydlogrwydd yn y rhan honno o'n system gofal yn gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn i'r gwasanaeth iechyd.

Ond rydym eisoes yn gweithredu ystod o fesurau mewn perthynas â chyfleusterau cymunedol: y buddsoddiad ychwanegol rydym yn ei wneud ym maes nyrsys ardal, bu cynnydd canrannol sylweddol a pharhaus dros y chwe blynedd diwethaf; yr arian ychwanegol rydym yn ei roi tuag at hyfforddiant ymarfer cyffredinol; a'r arian ychwanegol rydym yn ei roi tuag at hyfforddiant fferyllol hefyd.

Rwy'n derbyn nad oeddech yn gallu bod yn bresennol, ond roedd Dr Lloyd, sydd bellach wedi gadael yr ystafell, yn cynnal cyfarfod heddiw ar gyfer lansio achlysur ar weithio amlddisgyblaethol mewn lleoliadau ymarfer cyffredinol, a gynhaliwyd gan y Gymdeithas Fferyllol Frenhinol a Choleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol, ac adroddiad a gymeradwywyd gan Gymdeithas Siartredig Ffisiotherapi, Coleg Brenhinol y Therapyddion Galwedigaethol a'r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol.

Felly, gallwch weld rhai o'r dulliau rydym yn eu mabwysiadu eisoes mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad. Fe fyddwch yn parhau i weld y buddsoddiad hwnnw'n cael ei wneud mewn adnoddau staff yn y dyfodol, fel bod mwy o bobl yn gallu derbyn gofal yn nes at adref, ac yn yr un modd, fel ein bod yn cael mwy o bobl allan o'r ysbyty pan nad yw'n lleoliad priodol i'r gofal ddigwydd mwyach, a'u bod yn cael eu cefnogi'n briodol yn eu cartref eu hunain mewn gwely, boed hynny mewn gofal preswyl neu yn eu cartref eu hunain mewn tref neu bentref yng ngweddill y wlad.

Cyfraddau Sgrinio Ceg y Groth
Cervical Screening Rates

5. Pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i wella cyfraddau sgrinio ceg y groth yng Nghymru? OAQ55070

5. What action is the Minister taking to improve cervical screening rates in Wales, please? OAQ55070

Public Health Wales is working to improve cervical screening uptake, particularly in women from the age of 25 to 30, who are the lowest-attending demographic. I'm pleased to say that uptake has increased with over 30,000 more women screened by the programme in Wales in 2018-19 compared to the previous year.

Mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn gweithio i wella cyfraddau sgrinio ceg y groth, yn enwedig ymhlith menywod rhwng 25 a 30 oed, sef y demograffig lle ceir y nifer isaf o fenywod yn manteisio ar y prawf. Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod y cyfraddau wedi cynyddu gyda dros 30,000 yn fwy o fenywod wedi'u sgrinio gan y rhaglen yng Nghymru yn 2018-19 o'i gymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Figures provided by Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust show that cervical screening attendance in Wales is just over 73 per cent. This is well below the 80 per cent target set by your Government. However, their research reveals that 63 per cent of women who have physical disabilities have been unable to attend cervical screening. What action are you taking, Minister, to tackle this inequality in cervical screening to ensure that women with disabilities have access to this potentially life-saving test in Wales?

Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Mae ffigurau a ddarparwyd gan Ymddiriedolaeth Canser Ceg y Groth Jo yn dangos bod y lefelau sy'n manteisio ar brawf sgrinio ceg y groth yng Nghymru ychydig dros 73 y cant. Mae hyn ymhell o dan y targed o 80 y cant a osodwyd gan eich Llywodraeth. Fodd bynnag, mae eu hymchwil yn dangos bod 63 y cant o fenywod sydd ag anableddau corfforol wedi methu mynychu profion ceg y groth. Pa gamau rydych yn eu cymryd, Weinidog, i fynd i'r afael â'r anghydraddoldeb hwn ym maes sgrinio ceg y groth i sicrhau bod menywod ag anableddau yn gallu manteisio ar y prawf hwn a allai achub bywydau yng Nghymru?

14:55

Public Health Wales are already reviewing access to a range of their screening programmes to try to understand the lowest attending groups and to understand what they can do on the way the programme is provided, but are also taking a real interest in the self-screening trials that are being run in north and east London. That will be especially interesting to see if that does make a difference for those people who are invited to take part or who are at least six months overdue. So, there is a range of measures being taken, not just in Wales but across the UK. But in Wales, we have a good story to tell about the effectiveness of our screening programme, and in particular we are still the only UK country to have introduced high-risk HPV testing as a primary screening method. It's a more accurate and more sensitive test that will prevent more cancers. So, we look, and we continue to look, for areas of improvement as opposed to simply doing what we've done in the past. 

Mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru eisoes yn adolygu mynediad at ystod o'u rhaglenni sgrinio er mwyn ceisio deall y grwpiau sy'n manteisio leiaf ar brofion a deall yr hyn y gallant ei wneud ynglŷn â'r ffordd y darperir y rhaglen, ond mae ganddynt ddiddordeb mawr hefyd yn y treialon hunan-sgrinio sy'n cael eu cynnal yng ngogledd a dwyrain Llundain. Bydd yn arbennig o ddiddorol gweld a yw hynny'n gwneud gwahaniaeth i'r bobl a wahoddir i gymryd rhan neu sydd o leiaf chwe mis yn hwyr yn cael prawf. Felly, mae amryw o gamau'n cael eu cymryd, nid yn unig yng Nghymru ond ledled y DU. Ond yng Nghymru, mae gennym stori dda i'w hadrodd am effeithiolrwydd ein rhaglen sgrinio, ac yn benodol, ni yw'r unig wlad yn y DU o hyd i gyflwyno profion feirws papiloma sylfaenol risg uchel fel dull sgrinio sylfaenol. Mae'n brawf mwy cywir a mwy sensitif a fydd yn atal mwy o ganserau. Felly, rydym yn edrych, ac rydym yn parhau i edrych, am feysydd ar gyfer gwella yn hytrach na dim ond gwneud yr hyn rydym wedi'i wneud yn y gorffennol.

Last year, 260,247 individuals aged 25 to 64 were invited for screening, whilst 173,547 individuals were actively screened in 2018-19. Minister, a majority of Welsh women were invited from the screening programme to make a screening appointment, and these figures show that the Welsh national health service is progressing in a vital area for women's health. What further actions, though, can be undertaken to further increase this vital screening coverage and to further increase the uptake of screening invitations by Welsh women, which as we know saves lives?

Y llynedd, gwahoddwyd 260,247 o unigolion rhwng 25 a 64 oed i gael eu sgrinio, ac fe gafodd 173,547 o unigolion eu sgrinio yn 2018-19. Weinidog, gwahoddwyd y mwyafrif o fenywod Cymru gan y rhaglen sgrinio i wneud apwyntiad sgrinio, ac mae'r ffigurau hyn yn dangos bod gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol Cymru yn datblygu mewn maes hanfodol ar gyfer iechyd menywod. Ond pa gamau pellach y gellir eu cymryd i gynyddu ymhellach y ganran hanfodol sy'n cael eu sgrinio ac i gynyddu nifer y menywod yng Nghymru sy'n manteisio ar wahoddiadau sgrinio, sydd, fel y gwyddom, yn achub bywydau?

Yes, you're right, that final point is an important one: this screening programme saves lives. We've listened to the evidence about who to target within the programme, and also the reality that cervical cancer is the most common type of cancer in women under the age of 35. So, it's about the Government, about Public Health Wales and the campaign they're running, it's also about campaigns that other groups run. The #LoveYourCervix social marketing campaign that was launched in March aims to encourage uptake and to reduce the embarrassment that can be a barrier to some people undertaking screening, and to remind that a simple test can be the difference between having an early awareness of a challenge or actually the reality that not undertaking screening can cost lives as well. 

Ie, rydych yn iawn, mae'r pwynt olaf hwnnw'n un pwysig: mae'r rhaglen sgrinio hon yn achub bywydau. Rydym wedi gwrando ar y dystiolaeth ynglŷn â phwy i'w dargedu o fewn y rhaglen, yn ogystal â'r realiti mai canser ceg y groth yw'r math mwyaf cyffredin o ganser mewn menywod o dan 35 oed. Felly, mae'n ymwneud â'r Llywodraeth, Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru a'r ymgyrch y maent yn ei chynnal, mae hefyd yn ymwneud ag ymgyrchoedd y mae grwpiau eraill yn eu cynnal. Nod ymgyrch ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol, #LoveYourCervix, a lansiwyd ym mis Mawrth, yw annog pobl i fanteisio ar y cynllun a lleihau'r embaras a all fod yn rhwystr i rai pobl rhag cael eu sgrinio, ac i atgoffa y gall prawf syml olygu'r gwahaniaeth rhwng bod ag ymwybyddiaeth gynnar o her neu'r realiti y gall peidio â sgrinio arwain at golli bywydau hefyd.

Recriwtio a Hyfforddi Deintyddion
Recruiting and Training of Dentists

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am recriwtio a hyfforddi deintyddion yng ngogledd Cymru? OAQ55079

6. Will the Minister make a statement on the recruiting and training of dentists in north Wales? OAQ55079

There are now more dentists providing NHS care in north Wales and we have increased training for dental hygienists and therapists by 41 per cent. Building on this progress, Health Education and Improvement Wales is reviewing training provision and considering different service models that could improve dentists' workloads and make practices more sustainable.

Erbyn hyn, mae mwy o ddeintyddion yn darparu gofal y GIG yng ngogledd Cymru ac rydym wedi sicrhau cynnydd o 41 y cant yn y nifer sy'n hyfforddi i ddod yn hylenwyr a therapyddion deintyddol. Gan adeiladu ar y cynnydd hwn, mae Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru yn adolygu'r ddarpariaeth hyfforddiant ac yn ystyried modelau gwasanaeth gwahanol a allai wella llwyth gwaith deintyddion a gwneud practisau'n fwy cynaliadwy.

Diolch am yr ymateb yna. Y gwir amdani ydy mai diffyg deintyddion ydy'r broblem fwyaf rydym ni'n ei wynebu, dwi'n meddwl, yn hytrach na diffyg arian, yn y cyd-destun yma, o ran darparu gwasanaethau deintyddol yn y gogledd. Dydyn ni ddim wedi bod yn hyfforddi digon o ddeintyddion yng Nghymru, ac mae rhy ychydig o'r deintyddion sydd yn cael eu hyfforddi yn dod o Gymru ac yn bwriadu aros yma.

Mae'r rhain yn swnio'n ddadleuon cyfarwydd iawn, wrth gwrs, achos dyma'r union ddadleuon roeddem ni'n eu cyflwyno dros gyfnod llawer rhy hir o ran yr angen i gael hyfforddi meddygon yn y gogledd. Mi gymerodd yn rhy hir. Rŵan bod yr hyfforddi meddygon yna yn digwydd, mae pobl yn gweld y posibiliadau ac yn sôn yn barod am sefydlu ysgol feddygol lawn, a hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at gael uned hyfforddi deintyddion ym Mangor hefyd i gyd-fynd â'r ysgol feddygol.

Mae hyn yn rhywbeth dwi'n ei groesawu'n fawr. Gofyn ydw i am ymrwymiad gennych chi fel Llywodraeth i sicrhau na fydd yna unrhyw rwystrau o flaen sicrhau bod yr uned yma'n gallu digwydd, a digwydd yn fuan, er mwyn gwneud yn siŵr bod y broblem yma o weithlu deintyddol yn gallu cael pob siawns o gael ei datrys. 

Thank you for that response. The truth of the matter is that a shortage of dentists is the major problem we are facing, rather than a lack of money, in this context, in terms of the provision of dentistry services in north Wales. We haven't been training enough dentists in Wales, and too few of the dentists who are trained come from Wales and intend to remain here.

These may sound like very familiar arguments, because these are the very arguments that we were making over far too long a period in terms of the need to have medical training in north Wales. It took too long. Now that that medical training is in place, people are seeing the possibilities and are already talking about establishing a full medical school, and also looking forward to having a dental training unit in Bangor to run alongside the medical school.

This is something that I would warmly welcome. I'm asking for a commitment from you as a Government to ensure that there will be no barriers in terms of ensuring that this unit can be established, and established soon, in order to ensure that this problem of the dentistry workforce can be given every chance of being addressed.

Well, looking at the broader dentistry workforce, on my last visit to north Wales, I managed to visit the Valley Dental Practice on my way to celebrating the opening of the all-Wales faculty for dental professional training in Bangor University. So, we're investing in north Wales and that is, like I said, the all-Wales faculty, providing training and leadership for that wider group of dental care professionals. Actually, the example of the Valley practice is a good example of where contract reform is making a real difference, from recruiting a dentist who then works with a wider range of professionals, that now means that there are 3,000 more NHS patients on lists in that particular area compared with two years ago. And that is because of the deliberate use of skill mix and the professional development needs they've got. When I met people in the faculty in Bangor, they were talking about the help they've been able to provide to a range of practices about how they run their practice and what that means in terms of the best use of the time of the dentists themselves, and also making it a more attractive proposition for people to come into the area.

I am, of course, open-minded about the future for dental training. I don't have a hard-and-fast idea about not increasing numbers or, indeed, where those people train. It's about having a properly evidenced case and understanding what that means in terms of investment and the opportunities to do so. As we have done with general practice training, we've shown a level of ambition that we've been able to meet and to consistently increase over the last couple of years. I'm entirely open-minded about the evidence that we get from the investments we're already making about what that could mean, not just for north Wales, but for the rest of the country too.

Wel, o edrych ar y gweithlu deintyddiaeth ehangach, ar fy ymweliad diwethaf â gogledd Cymru, llwyddais i ymweld â Deintyddfa Fali ar fy ffordd i ddathlu agoriad cyfadran Cymru ar gyfer hyfforddiant deintyddol proffesiynol ym Mhrifysgol Bangor. Felly, rydym yn buddsoddi yng ngogledd Cymru a honno, fel y dywedais, yw'r gyfadran ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, sy'n darparu hyfforddiant ac arweiniad i'r grŵp ehangach o weithwyr gofal deintyddol proffesiynol. Mewn gwirionedd, mae deintyddfa Fali yn enghraifft dda o'r modd y mae diwygio contractau yn gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol, o recriwtio deintydd sydd wedyn yn gweithio gydag ystod ehangach o weithwyr proffesiynol, mae hynny bellach yn golygu bod 3,000 yn fwy o gleifion y GIG ar restrau yn yr ardal honno o gymharu â dwy flynedd yn ôl. A hynny oherwydd y defnydd bwriadol o gymysgedd sgiliau a'r anghenion datblygiad proffesiynol sydd ganddynt. Pan gyfarfûm â phobl yn y gyfadran ym Mangor, roeddent yn sôn am y cymorth y maent wedi gallu ei roi i amrywiaeth o ddeintyddfeydd ar sut i redeg eu deintyddfa a beth y mae hynny'n ei olygu o ran defnydd gorau o amser y deintyddion eu hunain, ac mae hefyd yn ei wneud yn gynnig mwy deniadol i bobl ddod i'r ardal.

Mae gennyf feddwl agored wrth gwrs am ddyfodol hyfforddiant deintyddol. Nid oes gennyf syniad pendant ynglŷn â sut i gynyddu niferoedd nac, yn wir, lle mae'r bobl hynny'n hyfforddi. Mae'n ymwneud â chael achos â thystiolaeth briodol yn sail iddo a deall beth y mae hynny'n ei olygu o ran buddsoddi a'r cyfleoedd i wneud hynny. Fel rydym wedi'i wneud gyda hyfforddiant ymarfer cyffredinol, rydym wedi dangos lefel o uchelgais y gallasom ei chyrraedd a'i chynyddu'n gyson dros y flwyddyn neu ddwy ddiwethaf. Mae gennyf feddwl cwbl agored am y dystiolaeth a gawn o'r buddsoddiadau rydym eisoes yn eu gwneud mewn perthynas â'r hyn y gallai hynny ei olygu, nid yn unig i ogledd Cymru, ond i weddill y wlad hefyd.

15:00
Gwasanaethau Iechyd yng Ngorllewin Cymru
Health Services in West Wales

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am flaenoriaethau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd yng ngorllewin Cymru dros y 12 mis nesaf? OAQ55067

7. Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's priorities for health services in west Wales for the next 12 months? OAQ55067

Our priority is to provide the people of Wales, including those in west Wales, with health services that deliver the best possible outcomes for patients. We will be guided by the best and most up-to-date clinical evidence and advice to deliver the high-quality care that the people of west Wales deserve.

Ein blaenoriaeth yw darparu gwasanaethau iechyd i bobl Cymru sy'n sicrhau'r canlyniadau gorau posibl i gleifion, gan gynnwys y gwasanaethau yng ngorllewin Cymru. Byddwn yn cael ein harwain gan y dystiolaeth a'r cyngor clinigol gorau a mwyaf diweddar i ddarparu'r gofal o ansawdd uchel y mae pobl gorllewin Cymru yn ei haeddu.

Minister, I'm sure that one of your priorities for the west Wales health service will be in response to the latest eye care measures data, which shows that only 60.6 per cent of patients are being seen within the target date at Hywel Dda University Health Board. This figure has dropped by nearly 7 per cent since April last year, when 67.5 per cent of patients were seen within the target time, so it's clear that intervention is now needed to ensure that these figures do not continue to decline. Can you, therefore, tell us what immediate steps the Welsh Government will be taking to address this issue, and can you also tell us how the Welsh Government will futureproof ophthalmic services so that enough ophthalmic staff are available to prevent long waiting lists and irreversible harm in the future? 

Weinidog, rwy'n siŵr y bydd un o'ch blaenoriaethau ar gyfer gwasanaeth iechyd gorllewin Cymru yn ymateb i'r data diweddaraf ar fesurau gofal llygaid, sy'n dangos mai 60.6 y cant yn unig o gleifion sy'n cael eu gweld o fewn y dyddiad targed ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Hywel Dda. Mae'r ffigur hwn wedi gostwng bron i 7 y cant ers mis Ebrill y llynedd, pan gafodd 67.5 y cant o gleifion eu gweld o fewn yr amser targed, felly mae'n amlwg fod angen ymyrraeth bellach i sicrhau nad yw'r ffigurau hyn yn parhau i gwympo. A allwch chi ddweud wrthym felly pa gamau uniongyrchol y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn, ac a allwch ddweud wrthym hefyd sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn diogelu gwasanaethau offthalmig ar gyfer y dyfodol fel bod digon o staff offthalmig ar gael i atal rhestrau aros hir a niwed na ellir ei wrthdroi yn y dyfodol?

It's actually about investing across the whole system, as I'm sure the Member will be aware. This isn't simply about the consultant end of the service, it's actually about getting the right people to the different parts of the service. That's why our reform programme in the primary care end is really important. I did recently discuss these matters with the chief optometric adviser, and these are matters that I intend to take up with chairs and vice-chairs of health boards in my next round of meetings, because having decided to introduce the new eye care measures because they are more accurate and useful measures, I then want to see achievement against them. 

Actually, without properly reforming the way that the system works, we won't see the sort of improvements that you and every other Member in this place would want to see. So, that is, then, about making sure that we have the availability within high-street optometry for different services so that those people don't, then, need to be on a consultant list. You can expect to see the consistent implementation of those pathways within this year, in place in every part of Wales—that's the expectation that I've set. That should, then, make better use of the capacity that exists in secondary care, and, actually, it would make our services more attractive, because consultant ophthalmologists themselves are people who can still choose where they wish to work. We need to address the whole workforce to deliver the sort of outcomes that you and I both want to see.

Mae'n ymwneud â buddsoddi ar draws y system gyfan mewn gwirionedd, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, rwy'n siŵr. Nid oes a wnelo hyn â phen ymgynghorol y gwasanaeth yn unig, mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod y bobl iawn yn mynd i wahanol rannau'r gwasanaeth. Dyna pam fod ein rhaglen ddiwygio ar y pen gofal sylfaenol yn bwysig iawn. Yn ddiweddar, bûm yn trafod y materion hyn gyda'r prif gynghorydd optometrig, ac mae'r rhain yn faterion rwy'n bwriadu eu codi gyda chadeiryddion ac is-gadeiryddion byrddau iechyd yn fy rownd nesaf o gyfarfodydd, oherwydd ar ôl penderfynu cyflwyno'r mesurau gofal llygaid newydd gan eu bod yn fesurau mwy cywir a defnyddiol, hoffwn weld cyflawniad yn eu herbyn.

Mewn gwirionedd, heb ddiwygio'r ffordd y mae'r system yn gweithio yn iawn, ni fyddwn yn gweld y math o welliannau y byddech chi a phob Aelod arall yn y lle hwn yn dymuno'u gweld. Felly, mae hynny'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod gwahanol wasanaethau ar gael mewn optometreg ar y stryd fawr fel nad oes angen i'r bobl hynny fod ar restr meddyg ymgynghorol. Gallwch ddisgwyl gweld y llwybrau hynny'n cael eu rhoi ar waith yn gyson eleni ym mhob rhan o Gymru—dyna'r disgwyliad rwyf wedi'i nodi. Dylai hynny, felly, wneud gwell defnydd o'r capasiti sy'n bodoli mewn gofal eilaidd, ac mewn gwirionedd, byddai'n gwneud ein gwasanaethau'n fwy deniadol, gan fod yr offthalmolegwyr ymgynghorol eu hunain yn bobl sy'n gallu dewis o hyd ble maent yn dymuno gweithio. Mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â'r gweithlu cyfan i gyflawni'r math o ganlyniadau rydych chi a minnau am eu gweld.

Y cwestiwn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Suzy Davies.

The final question, question 8, Suzy Davies.

Gwasanaethau Damweiniau ac Achosion Brys
Accident and Emergency Services

8. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i osgoi presenoldeb diangen y gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys yng Nghymru? OAQ55088

8. What is the Welsh Government doing to avoid unnecessary attendance of accident and emergency services in Wales? OAQ55088

We know that pressures across the whole health and social care system contribute to challenges at our emergency departments. We continue to work with NHS Wales and partners to manage demand across the system in different ways. This includes providing a broader range of care much closer to home.

Gwyddom fod pwysau ar draws y system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol gyfan yn cyfrannu at heriau yn ein hadrannau brys. Rydym yn parhau i weithio gyda GIG Cymru a phartneriaid i reoli'r galw ar draws y system mewn gwahanol ffyrdd. Mae hyn yn cynnwys darparu ystod ehangach o ofal yn llawer agosach at adref.

Thank you for that response, and I heard your earlier responses to Jack Sargeant on that question. The Choose Well campaign, of course, is very obvious at the moment, but, realistically, sometimes people have to choose between NHS Direct and A&E—it is an experience I've actually had myself. I note the minor injury unit review that you mentioned, but what increase have you seen in the number of GP surgeries that are open on the weekends that offer MIU services and the number of pharmacies that are open out of hours?

Diolch am eich ymateb, a chlywais eich ymatebion cynharach i Jack Sargeant ar y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae'r ymgyrch Dewis Doeth, wrth gwrs, yn amlwg iawn ar hyn o bryd, ond yn realistig, weithiau mae'n rhaid i bobl ddewis rhwng Galw Iechyd Cymru a'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys—mae'n brofiad rwyf wedi'i gael fy hun. Nodaf yr adolygiad o unedau mân anafiadau y sonioch chi amdano, ond pa gynnydd a welsoch yn nifer y meddygfeydd sydd ar agor ar y penwythnosau ac sy'n cynnig gwasanaethau uned mân anafiadau a nifer y fferyllfeydd sydd ar agor y tu allan i oriau?

I can't give you the exact figures on those two particular areas, but I do know that, with our deliberate investment in community pharmacy, we're seeing more services delivered consistently across community pharmacy. Good examples are, of course, the minor ailments service and the sore throat testing service available. Actually, showing the success of that measure, one of the new intake of Conservative Members of Parliament in north Wales was celebrating the success of the sore throat testing service that this Government has introduced, so it shows that we are dealing with real demand in a way that makes a difference.

It's also, then, about our ability to properly staff some of the out-of-hours services, so the 111 roll-out programme is really important as part of it. And it's investing across our whole system. That's why the additional staff that have gone into the clinical desk service in the Welsh ambulance service really matter, because there are more people who could be treated over the phone and discharged, as well as having people who can be seen and discharged without needing to go to a hospital as well. So, there's a range of progress already taking place right across the system, and I look forward to being able to report more on that success over the months ahead.  

Ni allaf roi'r union ffigurau i chi ar y ddau faes penodol hwnnw, ond gwn ein bod, gyda'n buddsoddiad bwriadol mewn fferylliaeth gymunedol, yn gweld mwy o wasanaethau'n cael eu darparu'n gyson ym maes fferylliaeth gymunedol. Enghreifftiau da, wrth gwrs, yw'r gwasanaeth mân anhwylderau a'r gwasanaeth profi dolur gwddf sydd ar gael. A dweud y gwir, i ddangos llwyddiant y mesur hwnnw, bu un o'r Aelodau Seneddol Ceidwadol newydd yng ngogledd Cymru yn dathlu llwyddiant y gwasanaeth profi dolur gwddf y mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi'i gyflwyno, felly mae'n dangos ein bod yn ymdrin â galw gwirioneddol mewn ffordd sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth.

Mae a wnelo hyn hefyd felly â'n gallu i staffio rhai o'r gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau yn iawn, felly mae'r rhaglen gyflwyno 111 yn bwysig iawn fel rhan o hynny. Ac mae'n buddsoddi ar draws ein system gyfan. Dyna pam y mae'r staff ychwanegol a gafwyd yng ngwasanaeth y ddesg glinigol yng ngwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru yn bwysig iawn, gan y gellir trin a rhyddhau mwy o bobl dros y ffôn, yn ogystal â gallu gweld a rhyddhau pobl heb fod angen iddynt fynd i'r ysbyty hefyd. Felly, mae ystod o gynnydd eisoes yn digwydd ar draws y system, ac edrychaf ymlaen at allu adrodd mwy ar y llwyddiant hwnnw dros y misoedd i ddod.

15:05

Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ateb y cwestiynau. 

Thank you, Minister, for responding to those questions. 

3. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Adrannau Brys y GIG
3. Welsh Conservatives Debate: NHS Emergency Departments

Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, gwelliant 2 yn enw Siân Gwenllian, gwelliant 3 yn enw Neil McEvoy, a gwelliant 4 yn enwau Mick Antoniw, Dawn Bowden, Huw Irranca-Davies a Vikki Howells. 

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, amendment 2 in the name of Siân Gwenllian, amendment 3 in the name of Neil McEvoy, and amendment 4 in the names of Mick Antoniw, Dawn Bowden, Huw Irranca-Davies and Vikki Howells. 

Yr eitem nesaf felly yw dadl y Ceidawdwyr Cymreig ar adrannau brys y gwasanaeth iechyd. Dwi'n galw ar Angela Burns i wneud y cynnig—Angela Burns. 

The next item is the Welsh Conservatives' debate on emergency departments in the NHS, and I call on Angela Burns to move the motion—Angela Burns. 

Cynnig NDM7266 Darren Millar

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1. Yn nodi'r pryderon a fynegwyd gan gleifion a chlinigwyr ledled Cymru ynghylch perfformiad a dyfodol adrannau achosion brys y GIG.

2. Yn gwrthod cynigion gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf Morgannwg a allai arwain at roi terfyn ar wasanaethau 24 awr a gaiff eu harwain gan feddygon ymgynghorol yn adran achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg.

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ymyrryd er mwyn atal unrhyw achos o israddio neu gau adrannau achosion brys yng Nghymru yn ystod y Cynulliad hwn.

Motion NDM7266 Darren Millar

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes the concerns expressed by patients and clinicians across Wales regarding the performance and future of NHS emergency departments.

2. Rejects proposals by Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board which could lead to an end to 24-hour consultant-led services at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital's emergency department.

3. Calls upon the Welsh Government to intervene to prevent any downgrading or closures of emergency departments in Wales during this Assembly.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Llywydd, thank you. I formally move the motion before us, tabled today in the name of the Welsh Conservatives by Darren Millar.

You will see that we ask that the Welsh Assembly

'Notes the concerns expressed by patients and clinicians across Wales regarding the performance and future of NHS emergency departments.

'Rejects proposals by Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board which could lead to an end to 24-hour consultant-led services at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital's emergency department.'

and we're calling upon the Welsh Government

'to intervene to prevent any downgrading or closures of emergency departments in Wales during this Assembly.'

Now, before I start, I do want to make it clear that the numerical information within my contribution has been taken directly from StatsWales, the Nuffield Trust, the Welsh Government itself or the Royal College of Emergency Medicine. And this is an important point to make, because we must not allow the Welsh Government to be in denial over the situation we are seeing and that staff and patients are experiencing across Wales's emergency departments. Nor can we allow Labour and the Welsh Government to continue to blame austerity or finances, the Conservatives down the M4 corridor, or untold, unknown and unexplained pressures or, indeed, the statistics they don't like, because the concerns expressed by patients and clinicians are at an all-time high. 

Yesterday, I heard the First Minister repeat the mantra that the NHS satisfaction survey reported a 93 per cent satisfaction rate, but you know, Minister, and I know that this is a use of quantitative statistics at its worst, because it pays no heed to the deeper analysis required. People are grateful for the service they've got, but when you ask them how the service performed they will tell you about the waits, they will tell you about the lost records and the moving around the hospitals. And let me quote directly from some of the responses to the big NHS survey that the Welsh Conservatives are currently running across social media platforms. Here's one:

'In the main, quite  happy with my treatment with the exception of A&E where, due to understaffing, due to too much money spent of management who don't appear to understand what a hospital's supposed to do, they work their socks off despite being under-resourced'.

Or another:

'I called an ambulance for my 87-year-old unconscious relative. It took over an hour and a half to arrive. They took her to Wrexham hospital. After eight hours, they'd done nothing. Fantastic staff are working reliably. A&E waiting times are not good enough. My relative wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the doctors and nurses, but the system was appalling.'

So, of course, they are 93 per cent satisfied that their relative is still there, but the experience was horrendous. And clinicians tell us that winter 2019-20 has been difficult, with the lowest percentage of patients being admitted, transferred or discharged within four hours since records began—and let me repeat that—since records began. In December 2019, only 66.4 per cent of patients were seen within four hours—sounds good? Well, let's flip that around. That's 33.6 per cent of patients who are not seen within four hours. Let me repeat that: that's one third of patients who waited longer than four hours to be seen at an A&E in Wales. 

But Members, the number of attendees in December 2019 is not a shocker. This is an average of 55,560 patients turning up to our emergency departments each month so far this winter, compared with 67,490 last winter, and 65,629 the winter before that. So, let me repeat that: fewer patients are turning up at our A&Es this winter than last year and the year before, but the performance has gone down. And given that a third of patients were not seen within four hours, then it is only logical that the number of patients waiting more than eight and 12 hours is increasing every winter—StatsWales, your information. 

Lywydd, diolch. Rwy'n cynnig yn ffurfiol y cynnig ger ein bron a gyflwynwyd heddiw yn enw Ceidwadwyr Cymru gan Darren Millar.

Fe welwch ein bod yn gofyn i Gynulliad Cymru

‘Nodi'r pryderon a fynegwyd gan gleifion a chlinigwyr ledled Cymru ynghylch perfformiad a dyfodol adrannau achosion brys y GIG.’

i ‘wrthod cynigion gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf Morgannwg a allai arwain at roi terfyn ar wasanaethau 24 awr a gaiff eu harwain gan feddygon ymgynghorol yn adran achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg.’

ac rydym yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i

'ymyrryd er mwyn atal unrhyw achos o israddio neu gau adrannau achosion brys yng Nghymru yn ystod y Cynulliad hwn.’

Nawr, cyn i mi ddechrau, hoffwn ddweud yn glir fod y wybodaeth rifiadol yn fy nghyfraniad wedi'i chymryd yn uniongyrchol gan StatsCymru, Ymddiriedolaeth Nuffield, Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun neu'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys. Ac mae hwn yn bwynt pwysig i'w wneud, gan fod yn rhaid i ni beidio â chaniatáu i Lywodraeth Cymru wadu’r sefyllfa rydym yn ei gweld ac y mae staff a chleifion yn ei hwynebu ar draws adrannau brys Cymru. Ni allwn ychwaith ganiatáu i Lafur a Llywodraeth Cymru barhau i feio cyni neu gyllid, y Ceidwadwyr i lawr coridor yr M4, neu bwysau di-baid, anhysbys ac anesboniadwy, neu'n wir, yr ystadegau nad ydynt yn eu hoffi, gan fod y pryderon a fynegir gan gleifion a chlinigwyr yn uwch nag erioed.

Ddoe, clywais y Prif Weinidog yn ailadrodd y mantra fod arolwg boddhad y GIG wedi nodi cyfradd boddhad o 93 y cant, ond fe wyddoch chi, Weinidog, a gwn innau mai'r defnydd o ystadegau meintiol ar ei waethaf yw hyn, gan nad yw'n rhoi unrhyw sylw i’r dadansoddi dyfnach sy'n ofynnol. Mae pobl yn ddiolchgar am y gwasanaeth sydd ganddynt, ond pan ofynnwch iddynt sut y perfformiodd y gwasanaeth, byddant yn dweud wrthych am yr amseroedd aros, byddant yn dweud wrthych am y cofnodion coll a'r symud o gwmpas yr ysbytai. A gadewch i mi ddyfynnu’n uniongyrchol o rai o’r ymatebion i arolwg mawr y GIG y mae'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn ei gynnal ar blatfformau’r cyfryngau cymdeithasol ar hyn o bryd. Dyma un:

Ar y cyfan, rwy’n eithaf hapus gyda fy nhriniaeth ac eithrio'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys lle maent yn gweithio'n ofnadwy o galed er nad oes ganddynt ddigon o adnoddau, a hynny oherwydd prinder staff, oherwydd bod gormod o arian yn cael ei wario ar reolwyr nad ymddengys eu bod yn deall beth y mae ysbyty i fod i'w wneud.

Neu un arall:

Ffoniais am ambiwlans ar gyfer fy mherthynas 87 oed, a oedd yn anymwybodol. Cymerodd dros awr a hanner i gyrraedd. Fe aethant â hi i ysbyty Wrecsam. Ar ôl wyth awr, nid oeddent wedi gwneud dim. Mae’r staff gwych yn gweithio'n ddibynadwy. Nid yw amseroedd aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn ddigon da. Ni fyddai fy mherthynas yma heddiw oni bai am y meddygon a'r nyrsys, ond roedd y system yn warthus.

Felly, wrth gwrs, maent 93 y cant yn fodlon fod eu perthynas yn dal i fod yma, ond roedd y profiad yn erchyll. A dywed clinigwyr wrthym fod gaeaf 2019-20 wedi bod yn anodd, gyda’r ganran isaf o gleifion yn cael eu derbyn, eu trosglwyddo neu eu rhyddhau o fewn pedair awr ers dechrau cadw cofnodion—a gadewch i mi ailadrodd hynny—ers dechrau cadw cofnodion. Ym mis Rhagfyr 2019, 66.4 y cant yn unig o gleifion a welwyd o fewn pedair awr—swnio'n dda? Wel, gadewch i ni droi hynny ar ei ben. Dyna 33.6 y cant o gleifion na chawsant eu gweld o fewn pedair awr. Gadewch i mi ailadrodd hynny: arhosodd traean o'r cleifion fwy na phedair awr i gael eu gweld mewn adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yng Nghymru.

Ond Aelodau, nid yw nifer y cleifion ym mis Rhagfyr 2019 yn syndod. Mae cyfartaledd o 55,560 o gleifion wedi dod i'n hadrannau brys bob mis hyd yn hyn y gaeaf hwn, o gymharu â 67,490 y gaeaf diwethaf, a 65,629 y gaeaf cyn hynny. Felly, gadewch i mi ailadrodd hynny: mae llai o gleifion yn dod i’n hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys y gaeaf hwn na'r llynedd a'r flwyddyn flaenorol, ond mae'r perfformiad wedi gwaethygu. Ac o ystyried na welwyd traean o'r cleifion o fewn pedair awr, mae'n gwneud synnwyr fod nifer y cleifion sy'n aros mwy nag wyth a 12 awr yn cynyddu bob gaeaf—StatsCymru, eich gwybodaeth chi.

15:10

I will in a moment, Jenny. In fact, winter 2019-20 represents the highest number of patients and the result is that patient safety is being compromised, staff morale is at an all-time low. While money for winter pressures, Minister, is welcome, ad hoc cash injections are simply a temporary solution. What the NHS needs is a substantial increase in resources, which should be deployed to ensure that there's measurable increase in available staff and acute beds.

Thankfully, the UK Conservative Government has committed to boost Welsh NHS funding by £1.9 billion over the next three years. This is a significant sum that could and should be used for the betterment of our NHS. Before the Labour backbenchers leap to their feet, I would make the point that no Conservative Prime Minister has ever cut an NHS budget. So, shame on Mark Drakeford and your Welsh Labour Cabinet for cutting yours. Between 2010-11 and 2015-16—[Interruption.] I most certainly will for you, First Minister.

Mewn eiliad, Jenny. Mewn gwirionedd, gaeaf 2019-20 a welodd y nifer uchaf o gleifion a'r canlyniad yw bod diogelwch cleifion yn cael ei beryglu, mae morâl staff ar ei lefel isaf erioed. Er bod arian ar gyfer pwysau'r gaeaf i'w groesawu, Weinidog, ateb dros dro yn unig yw chwistrelliadau ad hoc o arian. Yr hyn sydd ei angen ar y GIG yw cynnydd sylweddol yn ei adnoddau, y dylid eu defnyddio i sicrhau cynnydd mesuradwy yn y staff sydd ar gael a gwelyau acíwt.

Diolch byth, mae Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU wedi ymrwymo i roi hwb o £1.9 biliwn i gyllid GIG Cymru dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae hwn yn swm sylweddol y gellid ac y dylid ei ddefnyddio i wella ein GIG. Cyn i Aelodau Llafur ar y meinciau cefn godi ar eu traed, hoffwn wneud y pwynt nad oes yr un o Brif Weinidogion Ceidwadol y DU erioed wedi torri cyllideb y GIG. Felly, cywilydd ar Mark Drakeford a'ch Cabinet Llafur Cymru am dorri'ch un chi. Rhwng 2010-11 a 2015-16—[Torri ar draws.] Yn sicr, fe wnaf i chi, Brif Weinidog.

Thank you. Considering that you decided that you would name me—

Diolch. O ystyried eich bod wedi penderfynu y byddech yn fy enwi—

—name me the year in which I was in Government in which the NHS budget in this Assembly was cut. Given that you named me specifically, give me the year.

—rhowch y flwyddyn pan oeddwn yn y Llywodraeth lle torrwyd cyllideb y GIG yn y Cynulliad hwn. O ystyried eich bod wedi fy enwi'n benodol, rhowch y flwyddyn i mi.

You've cut it year on year and we can give you the statistics, First Minister. 

Rydych wedi'i thorri flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn a gallwn roi'r ystadegau i chi, Brif Weinidog.

And, First Minister, you are responsible for the Welsh Labour Government.

A chi sy'n gyfrifol am Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru, Brif Weinidog.

You can't answer the question because what you've said is not true.

Ni allwch ateb y cwestiwn gan nad yw'r hyn rydych wedi'i ddweud yn wir.

Between—. I'm giving you the years. Between 2010-11 and 2015-16—

Rhwng—. Rwy'n rhoi'r blynyddoedd i chi. Rhwng 2010-11 a 2015-16—

When I was in Government, I asked you.

Pan oeddwn yn y Llywodraeth, gofynnais i chi.

First Minister, you were the special adviser to the—. You are now in Government, you were the health Minister, you were the finance Minister and now you're the First Minister. 

Brif Weinidog, chi oedd cynghorydd arbennig y—. Rydych yn y Llywodraeth ar hyn o bryd, chi oedd y Gweinidog iechyd, chi oedd y Gweinidog cyllid, a bellach, chi yw'r Prif Weinidog.

And you'll never find a year.

Ac ni ddowch byth o hyd i flwyddyn.

Maybe I should call you First Minister Pontius Pilate. 

The Welsh Conservatives do recognise that winter pressures are no longer exclusive to winter months. Poor performance is now a year-round reality and whilst there are particular issues experienced in winter, overall performance continues to decline, which in and of itself, Llywydd, must bring a ferocious level of stress and exhaustion to the front-line staff tasked with delivering services. And to them I give my heartfelt thanks. This debate is not about trying to hammer them into the floor, but to give them the support and resources they need to lift them up so that they can do the job they love; they can have the training and career they wanted; and the work-life balance that we all need for our health and our mental well-being. 

I challenge totally the notion that untold, unknown and unexplained pressures are to blame for the situation across our emergency departments. It is a fact that attendance at emergency departments has only grown by 7.4 per cent, yet in the same time period, eight-hour waits have gone up by 254 per cent. And, Welsh Government's data has come up trumps because we know that since 2013, when data collection for 12-hour performance began, the number of people waiting for 12 hours or more has gone up by a staggering 318 per cent. We know that longer waits in emergency departments are almost always associated with poor patient flow through hospitals, congestion in hospital wards and inadequate social care provision in the community. This is certainly true when we consider the number of hospital beds available. 

I think it was Andrew who might have mentioned hospital beds earlier—somebody did—and occupancy rates. Data from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine demonstrates that the correlation between bed occupancy and the ability to meet the four-hour target is strong. In short, fellow Assembly Members, it's simple: additional bed capacity would mean a significant improvement in patient waiting time. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine strongly believes that we need 226 beds. Those extra beds would achieve a safe bed occupancy of 85 per cent. So, this pressure we see on our A&Es could be alleviated by having just under 250 extra beds.

The whole-system problem that we are seeing here will be exacerbated by the desire of Welsh Government to cut and to centralise their provision of emergency care services. Please don't roll out the recent mantra that it's up to the clinicians to decide. I think, Leanne Wood, you put your case very clearly earlier on: clinicians are saying, 'Keep our emergency services', and it's health boards, Governments, the south Wales programme, the Marcus Longley report that's all about centralisation, centralisation, centralisation.

I'm going to quickly turn to the amendments because I can see my time is running out. I do despair to see the Welsh Government has done yet another 'delete all' to stifle debate. I acknowledge that the Labour and Plaid backbenchers have signed a statement concerning the Royal Glamorgan Hospital, but point 2 of the Government's amendment is the usual hand-wringing promises that health boards will ask you for your views and then do what they've always planned to do anyway. This comes after years of uncertainty for the hospital's A&E services since the publishment of the south Wales programme consultation document in 2013.

Staffing at the hospitals is hitting dangerously low levels. Not only are all major A&E units in Cwm Taf staffed well below UK-wide standards, but on Christmas Day and Boxing Day 2019, ambulances had to be diverted from the hospital to Prince Charles because of a lack of doctors. The proposals by the health board have met with significant opposition from surrounding communities. Concerns revolve around the safety of patients who will now have to travel further to receive emergency care as well as vastly increasing the pressure on other A&E departments at a time when the other hospitals serving Cwm Taf did not even reach the Welsh average four-hour waiting times in December 2019.

I will support Plaid Cymru's amendment, which highlights the importance of workforce planning throughout the country, not just in the areas traditionally easiest to staff, such as south-east Wales, because it is only right that staff shortages should never be used to justify closures and service changes.

I also agree with Neil McEvoy's very clear amendment and the amendment from the Labour backbenches, because this Welsh Labour Government must reject proposals by Cwm Taf Morgannwg health board to end 24-hour consultant-led accident and emergency services at the Royal Glamorgan. And I would go further and say that the Welsh Government must review the Marcus Longley case for change report of 2012 and the south Wales programme, both of which are no longer current, both of which set a direction of travel that may no longer suit Wales, and, to be frank, both of which seem to promote services that are ever further away from the public that the health boards, the Minister and the NHS are there to serve.

I trust that the Labour backbenchers will support our motion and that by presenting a united front across all political parties, we can send a loud and clear message to the health boards across Wales. Listen to the people: do not close, cut or downgrade our emergency departments. I commend this motion to the Chamber.

Efallai y dylwn eich galw’n Brif Weinidog Pontiws Peilat.

Mae'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cydnabod nad yw pwysau'r gaeaf bellach yn gyfyngedig i fisoedd y gaeaf. Mae perfformiad gwael bellach yn realiti drwy gydol y flwyddyn ac er bod problemau penodol yn y gaeaf, mae perfformiad cyffredinol yn parhau i waethygu, ac mae’n rhaid bod hynny ynddo'i hun yn peri lefel aruthrol o straen a blinder i'r staff ar y rheng flaen sy’n gyfrifol am ddarparu gwasanaethau. Ac rwy’n diolch o galon iddynt. Nid pwrpas y ddadl hon yw ceisio lladd arnynt, ond rhoi'r gefnogaeth a'r adnoddau sydd eu hangen arnynt i'w codi fel y gallant wneud y gwaith y maent yn ei garu; gallant gael yr hyfforddiant a'r yrfa roeddent am ei chael; a'r cydbwysedd rhwng bywyd a gwaith sydd ei angen ar bob un ohonom ar gyfer ein hiechyd a'n lles meddyliol.

Rwy'n herio'r syniad yn gyfan gwbl mai pwysau di-baid, anhysbys ac anesboniadwy sydd ar fai am y sefyllfa ar draws ein hadrannau brys. Mae'n ffaith nad yw'r nifer sy'n mynychu adrannau achosion brys ond wedi cynyddu 7.4 y cant yn unig, ond yn yr un cyfnod, mae'r nifer sy'n aros am wyth awr wedi cynyddu 254 y cant. Ac mae data Llywodraeth Cymru wedi datgelu'r gwir gan y gwyddom, ers 2013, pan ddechreuodd y gwaith o gasglu data ar gyfer perfformiad 12 awr, fod nifer y bobl sy'n aros am 12 awr neu fwy wedi cynyddu 318 y cant, sy’n ffigur syfrdanol. Gwyddom fod amseroedd aros hirach mewn adrannau brys bron bob amser yn gysylltiedig â llif cleifion gwael drwy ysbytai, tagfeydd mewn wardiau ysbytai a darpariaeth gofal cymdeithasol annigonol yn y gymuned. Mae hyn yn sicr yn wir pan ystyriwn nifer y gwelyau ysbyty sydd ar gael.

Credaf efallai mai Andrew a soniodd am welyau ysbyty yn gynharach—gwnaeth rhywun—a chyfraddau defnydd gwelyau. Mae data gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn dangos bod y gydberthynas rhwng cyfraddau defnydd gwelyau a'r gallu i gyflawni'r targed pedair awr yn gryf. Yn gryno, gyd-Aelodau'r Cynulliad, mae'n syml: byddai capasiti gwelyau ychwanegol yn golygu gwelliant sylweddol yn amseroedd aros cleifion. Mae'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn credu'n gryf fod angen 226 o welyau arnom. Byddai'r gwelyau ychwanegol hynny'n sicrhau cyfradd defnydd gwelyau ddiogel o 85 y cant. Felly, gellid lliniaru'r pwysau a welwn ar ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys drwy gael ychydig llai na 250 o welyau ychwanegol.

Bydd y broblem system gyfan rydym yn ei gweld yma yn cael ei gwaethygu gan awydd Llywodraeth Cymru i dorri a chanoli eu darpariaeth o wasanaethau gofal brys. Peidiwch ag ailadrodd y mantra diweddar ei fod yn benderfyniad i’r clinigwyr. Rwy'n credu, Leanne Wood, eich bod chi wedi dadlau eich achos yn glir iawn yn gynharach: mae clinigwyr yn dweud, 'Cadwch ein gwasanaethau brys', a’r byrddau iechyd, Llywodraethau, rhaglen de Cymru, ac adroddiad Marcus Longley sy'n siarad am ddim ond canoli, canoli, canoli.

Rwyf am droi at y gwelliannau yn gyflym gan y gallaf weld bod fy amser yn dod i ben. Rwy'n anobeithio wrth weld bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi 'dileu popeth' unwaith eto i fygu dadl. Rwy'n cydnabod bod Aelodau meinciau cefn Llafur a Phlaid Cymru wedi llofnodi datganiad yn ymwneud ag Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ond pwynt 2 o welliant y Llywodraeth yw'r addewidion ffuantus arferol y bydd byrddau iechyd yn gofyn i chi am eich barn ac yna'n gwneud yr hyn y maent wedi cynllunio i'w wneud beth bynnag. Daw hyn ar ôl blynyddoedd o ansicrwydd i wasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys yr ysbyty ers cyhoeddi dogfen ymgynghori rhaglen de Cymru yn 2013.

Mae staffio yn yr ysbytai yn cyrraedd lefelau peryglus o isel. Nid yn unig fod pob uned damweiniau ac achosion brys fawr yng Nghwm Taf wedi'i staffio ymhell islaw safonau'r DU gyfan, ond ar Ddydd Nadolig a Gŵyl San Steffan 2019, bu'n rhaid dargyfeirio ambiwlansys o'r ysbyty i Ysbyty'r Tywysog Siarl oherwydd prinder meddygon. Mae'r cynigion gan y bwrdd iechyd wedi wynebu gwrthwynebiad sylweddol gan y cymunedau cyfagos. Mae pryderon yn ymwneud â diogelwch cleifion y bydd yn rhaid iddynt deithio ymhellach yn awr i gael gofal brys yn ogystal â chynyddu'r pwysau ar adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys eraill ar adeg pan na chyrhaeddodd yr ysbytai eraill sy'n gwasanaethu Cwm Taf amser aros cyfartalog Cymru o bedair awr hyd yn oed ym mis Rhagfyr 2019.

Byddaf yn cefnogi gwelliant Plaid Cymru, sy’n tynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd cynllunio’r gweithlu ledled y wlad, nid yn unig yn yr ardaloedd hawsaf i’w staffio yn draddodiadol, megis de-ddwyrain Cymru, gan ei bod ond yn deg na ddylid defnyddio prinder staff i gyfiawnhau cau a newid i wasanaethau.

Rwy'n cytuno â gwelliant clir iawn Neil McEvoy hefyd a’r gwelliant gan feinciau cefn Llafur, gan fod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru wrthod cynigion gan fwrdd iechyd Cwm Taf Morgannwg i ddod â gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys 24 awr dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol i ben yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. A buaswn yn mynd gam ymhellach a dweud bod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru adolygu adroddiad yr achos dros newid gan Marcus Longley yn 2012 a rhaglen de Cymru, gan nad yw'r ddau ohonynt yn gyfredol mwyach, a’r ddau ohonynt yn nodi cyfeiriad teithio nad yw'n addas i Gymru mwyach, ac a dweud y gwir, ymddengys bod y ddau ohonynt yn hyrwyddo gwasanaethau sydd ymhellach byth oddi wrth y cyhoedd y mae'r byrddau iechyd, y Gweinidog a'r GIG yno i'w gwasanaethu.

Rwy’n hyderus y bydd meinciau cefn Llafur yn cefnogi ein cynnig ac y gallwn, drwy ddangos undod ar draws yr holl bleidiau gwleidyddol, anfon neges glir i’r byrddau iechyd ledled Cymru. Gwrandewch ar y bobl: peidiwch â chau, torri nac israddio ein hadrannau brys. Rwy'n cymeradwyo'r cynnig hwn i'r Siambr.

15:15

Rwyf wedi dethol y pedwar gwelliant i'r cynnig, a dwi'n galw ar y Gweinidog iechyd i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. 

I have selected the four amendments to the motion, and I call on the Minister for health to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. 

Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans

Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:

1. Yn cydnabod y datganiad trawsbleidiol ar Ddyfodol Gofal Brys Diogel yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg.

2. Yn cydnabod yr angen i’r bwrdd iechyd fod yn agored ac yn dryloyw wrth ymgysylltu â’r cyhoedd, clinigwyr, y cyngor iechyd cymuned, cynrychiolwyr etholedig, staff a’u hundebau, i lywio eu penderfyniad ynghylch darparu pob math o ofal heb ei drefnu yn y dyfodol, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau brys.

3. Yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid i unrhyw ddarpariaeth gofal heb ei drefnu fod yn gadarn, yn ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy.

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans

Delete all and replace with:

1. Recognises the cross party statement on the Future of Safe Emergency Care in Cwm Taf Morgannwg.

2. Recognises the need for openness and transparency from the health board in their engagement with the public, clinicians, the community health council, elected representatives, staff and their unions to inform their decision on the future provision of all types of unscheduled care, including emergency services.

3. Recognises that any unscheduled care provision must be robust, safe and sustainable.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.

Amendment 1 moved.

Galwaf nawr ar Leanne Wood i gynnig gwelliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian. Leanne Wood. 

I now call on Leanne Wood to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. Leanne Wood. 

Gwelliant 2—Siân Gwenllian

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i fabwysiadu cynllun cynhwysfawr ar gyfer cynyddu'r gweithlu clinigol, gyda ffocws penodol ar arbenigeddau ac ardaloedd daearyddol y mae'n anodd recriwtio iddynt, megis mewn adrannau achosion brys, fel na ellir byth ddefnyddio prinder staff i gyfiawnhau cau a newid gwasanaethau.

Amendment 2—Siân Gwenllian

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to adopt a comprehensive plan for increasing the clinical workforce, with specific focus on specialities and geographical areas that are hard to recruit to, such as within emergency departments, so that staff shortages can never be used to justify closures and service changes.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.

Amendment 2 moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. There have been many references from many Members in this Chamber to the inverse care law, that, essentially, the section of the population most in need of care services often face the most barriers to accessing them. We've also noted on several occasions that people in the poorest areas also face the greatest burden of disease. This is due to a combination of the industrial legacy and the neglect of those people in those communities when they were de-industrialised.

We've also noted that the dismissive attitude of senior management in the NHS when it came to dealing with complaints that led to the maternity services scandal in Cwm Taf, and noted that it probably wouldn't have happened to people in a more wealthy area. But, again, lessons are not learned, as this Labour Government presides over a policy of closing A&E in one of the most deprived areas in Wales. This is despite the University of Sheffield study in 2007 finding that a 10 km increase in distance is associated with around a one per cent absolute increase in mortality, and that relationship is greater for patients with respiratory conditions. And this has been confirmed by at least two other studies for asthma patients.

Now, the board cites staff shortages for this, and it is, of course, trivially true to say that a unit without doctors is going to be dangerous. But we have to ask why. How have we got to this place?

The figures I quoted yesterday to the First Minister demonstrate that in those areas with A&E units that are not under threat, consultant numbers have increased significantly. Those areas where reconfigured proposals were agreed did not. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nobody chooses to work in a place that is under threat, when management rely on agency staff instead of advertising for long-term vacancies. My office has heard from a number of doctors who want full-time posts in the Royal Glamorgan and would take them if they were offered a little bit of flexibility in the hours.

So, what are the immediate short-term actions that need to be taken now? First of all, make a public commitment to the long-term future of the A&E department in the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. This alone will help recruitment and retention. Offer the existing agency staff full-time employment, making adjustments to the hours if needed. We know that there are many people who would accept this offer. Actually advertise some posts, using some financial incentives, like Cardiff has recently done, if that's necessary for the difficult-to-recruit positions. And, importantly, make the expectations to management clear—they have been operating with the opposite expectations and a belief that the unit should close ever since the south Wales programme was agreed.

In the longer term, Plaid Cymru has well-considered and costed policies for the training and recruitment of an extra 1,000 doctors, and that includes investment in the targeting of local recruits and the expansion of training places for doctors. These policies can and should be put in place for the benefit of all NHS services in Wales now.

I want to turn briefly to tackling some myths. First of all, the Tories need to reflect upon the fact that this process has happened in England. Jeremy Hunt made it clear that he wanted centralisation and he gave the go-ahead for this to happen back when he was health Secretary. Coincidentally, this was the date the performance in the English NHS started to decline, and that decline continues to this day. So, the Tories don't have a good track record in delivering a different model of service configuration.

Secondly, to those who want to abolish the Assembly, they need to consider what would happen if the NHS senior management had no political oversight at all. Some senior managers have been heard privately saying that they want centralisation to go far further. If they had their way, we could end up with A&E units in just Cardiff, Swansea and maybe one or two others. It's only because Labour know that they can't get away with agreeing to that that prevents this process from getting worse. But that also highlights another unavoidable truth: that the health Minister could stop these proposals right now, but he chooses not to.

I want to finish with this: we in Plaid Cymru will do everything we can to stop them closing or reducing those hours in our A&E department at the Royal Glamorgan, and we intend to win this battle. If we do, a future Plaid Cymru Government pledges to keep our A&E for the long term. But if we don't win, then we will pledge to restore it. Diolch.

Diolch, Lywydd. Mae llawer o Aelodau yn y Siambr hon wedi cyfeirio at y ddeddf gofal gwrthgyfartal, sef, yn y bôn, mai’r rhan o'r boblogaeth sydd fwyaf o angen gwasanaethau gofal sy'n wynebu'r rhwystrau mwyaf rhag cael mynediad atynt. Rydym hefyd wedi nodi ar sawl achlysur mai pobl yn yr ardaloedd tlotaf hefyd sy'n wynebu’r baich mwyaf o afiechyd. Canlyniad yw hyn i gyfuniad o'r etifeddiaeth ddiwydiannol a’r ffaith bod y bobl yn y cymunedau hynny wedi cael eu hesgeuluso pan gawsant eu dad-ddiwydiannu.

Rydym hefyd wedi nodi mai agwedd ddiystyriol uwch reolwyr yn y GIG wrth ymdrin â chwynion a arweiniodd at sgandal y gwasanaethau mamolaeth yng Nghwm Taf, ac wedi nodi na fyddai hynny wedi digwydd yn ôl pob tebyg i bobl mewn ardal fwy cyfoethog. Ond unwaith eto, nid yw'r gwersi’n cael eu dysgu, gan fod y Llywodraeth Lafur hon yn llywyddu dros bolisi o gau adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn un o'r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Mae hyn er gwaethaf yr astudiaeth gan Brifysgol Sheffield yn 2007 a ganfu fod cynnydd o 10 km mewn pellter yn gysylltiedig â chynnydd absoliwt o oddeutu un y cant mewn marwolaethau, a bod y berthynas honno'n fwy i gleifion â chyflyrau anadlol. Ac mae hyn wedi'i gadarnhau gan o leiaf ddwy astudiaeth arall o gleifion ag asthma.

Nawr, mae'r bwrdd yn nodi mai prinder staff yw’r rheswm am hyn, ac wrth gwrs, mae’n wir dweud, yn arwynebol, fod uned heb feddygon yn mynd i fod yn beryglus. Ond mae'n rhaid inni ofyn pam. Sut y cyraeddasom y sefyllfa hon?

Mae'r ffigurau a ddyfynnais ddoe i'r Prif Weinidog yn dangos bod nifer y meddygon ymgynghorol wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol yn yr ardaloedd sydd ag unedau damweiniau ac achosion brys nad ydynt dan fygythiad. Ni ddigwyddodd hynny yn yr ardaloedd lle cytunwyd ar gynigion ad-drefnu. Mae'n broffwydoliaeth hunangyflawnol. Nid oes unrhyw un yn dewis gweithio mewn lle sydd dan fygythiad, pan fydd rheolwyr yn dibynnu ar staff asiantaeth yn lle hysbysebu swyddi hirdymor. Clywodd fy swyddfa gan nifer o feddygon sy’n awyddus i gael swyddi amser llawn yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg a byddent yn eu derbyn pe byddent yn cael cynnig rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd o ran oriau.

Felly, beth yw'r camau tymor byr uniongyrchol sy'n rhaid eu cymryd yn awr? Yn gyntaf oll, gwnewch ymrwymiad cyhoeddus i ddyfodol hirdymor yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Hyn yn unig a fydd yn helpu i recriwtio a chadw staff. Cynigiwch waith amser llawn i’r staff asiantaeth presennol, gan addasu eu horiau os oes angen. Gwyddom fod llawer o bobl a fyddai'n derbyn y cynnig hwn. Hysbysebwch rai swyddi, gan ddefnyddio cymhellion ariannol, fel y mae Caerdydd wedi'i wneud yn ddiweddar, os yw hynny'n angenrheidiol ar gyfer y swyddi sy’n anodd eu recriwtio. Ac yn bwysig, gwnewch y disgwyliadau’n glir i’r rheolwyr—maent wedi bod yn gweithredu gyda disgwyliadau i’r gwrthwyneb, a chred y dylai'r uned gau ers i raglen de Cymru gael ei chytuno.

Yn y tymor hwy, mae gan Blaid Cymru bolisïau sydd wedi’u hystyried a’u costio’n drylwyr ar gyfer hyfforddi a recriwtio 1,000 o feddygon ychwanegol, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys buddsoddi mewn targedu recriwtiaid lleol a chynyddu nifer y lleoedd hyfforddi ar gyfer meddygon. Fe ellid ac fe ddylid rhoi’r polisïau hyn ar waith er budd holl wasanaethau'r GIG yng Nghymru nawr.

Hoffwn droi’n gyflym at chwalu rhai mythau. Yn gyntaf oll, mae angen i'r Torïaid ystyried y ffaith bod y broses hon wedi digwydd yn Lloegr. Dywedodd Jeremy Hunt yn glir ei fod yn dymuno canoli, a rhoddodd sêl bendith i hyn ddigwydd yn ôl pan oedd yn Ysgrifennydd iechyd. Drwy gyd-ddigwyddiad, hwn oedd y dyddiad y dechreuodd perfformiad GIG Lloegr ddirywio, ac mae'r dirywiad hwnnw'n parhau hyd heddiw. Felly, nid oes gan y Torïaid hanes da o ddarparu model gwahanol o drefnu’r gwasanaeth.

Yn ail, i'r rheini sydd am ddiddymu'r Cynulliad, mae angen iddynt ystyried beth fyddai'n digwydd pe na bai gan uwch reolwyr y GIG unrhyw oruchwyliaeth wleidyddol o gwbl. Mae rhai uwch reolwyr wedi cael eu clywed yn dweud yn breifat eu bod am i ganoli fynd yn llawer pellach. Pe byddent yn cael eu ffordd, gallem fod ag unedau damweiniau ac achosion brys yng Nghaerdydd ac Abertawe yn unig yn y pen draw, ac efallai un neu ddau arall. Dim ond y ffaith bod Llafur yn gwybod na fyddent yn cael rhwydd hynt i gytuno i hynny sy'n atal y broses hon rhag gwaethygu. Ond mae hynny hefyd yn amlygu gwirionedd arall na ellir ei osgoi: y gallai'r Gweinidog iechyd atal y cynigion hyn yr eiliad hon, ond mae'n dewis peidio.

Rwyf am gloi gyda hyn: byddwn ni ym Mhlaid Cymru yn gwneud popeth a allwn i'w hatal rhag cau neu leihau'r oriau yn ein hadran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ac rydym yn bwriadu ennill y frwydr hon. Os gwnawn, mae Llywodraeth Plaid Cymru yn y dyfodol yn addo cadw ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn hirdymor. Ond os na wnawn ennill, byddwn yn addo eu hadfer. Diolch.

15:20

Galwaf ar Neil McEvoy i gynnig gwelliant 3 a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw.

I call on Neil McEvoy to move amendment 3 tabled in his name.

Gwelliant 3—Neil McEvoy

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Yn cefnogi adran damweiniau ac achosion brys barhaol gydag adnoddau llawn yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg.

Amendment 3—Neil McEvoy

Add as new point at end of motion:

Supports a permanent and fully resourced accident and emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 3.

Amendment 3 moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. Fel arweinydd Plaid Genedlaethol Cymru, dwi'n dweud bod yn rhai inni achub adran achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg.

Thank you, Llywydd. As leader of the Welsh National Party, I say that we have to save the A&E department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital.

I'm stood here as leader of the Welsh National Party, saying that we need to save the accident and emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. The public message to us is very, very clear. I attended a public meeting, I listened intently outside. They want us to work together.

I support the motion. I cannot support amendment 1, because amendment 1 essentially wrecks the motion. I support amendment 2. I support amendment 4. My amendment is very, very simple—the message is simple. It says that this Assembly—us here, every Assembly Member—supports a permanent—and that is the key word here; it's not in any other amendment or any other motion—a permanent and fully resourced accident and emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. We can all support that, and we can all support each other's amendments so we can listen to the public today and actually hear what they told us outside, and support the motion and support each other's amendments, with the exception of amendment 1.

The health of the NHS in Wales is in crisis. Staff deserve better. The public deserves better. We heard outside, Minister—and I hope you listen—that the doctors at the Royal Glamorgan, as my colleague across the way said, want the department to remain open, consultant-led, 24 hours a day. My daughter was born at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital, and they did a tremendous job back in those days. My dad is being looked after at this moment by brilliant NHS staff at the Heath, but I was in A&E on Friday, and I was appalled at what I saw. Staff told me that it was a quiet night, and on other nights, the night before, people were sat on the floor. We have declared, or the Government has declared, a climate emergency. I feel we need to declare a health emergency. Let's vote for these different amendments, let's listen to the public, let's listen to the doctors and let's give the message out that this Assembly wants to save the accident and emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital on a permanent—the key word—permanent basis. Diolch yn fawr. 

Rwy'n sefyll yma fel arweinydd Plaid Genedlaethol Cymru, gan ddweud bod angen i ni achub yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Mae neges y cyhoedd i ni yn glir iawn. Mynychais gyfarfod cyhoeddus, gwrandewais yn ofalus y tu allan. Maent yn awyddus i ni weithio gyda'n gilydd.

Rwy’n cefnogi’r cynnig. Ni allaf gefnogi gwelliant 1, oherwydd yn y bôn mae gwelliant 1 yn dinistrio’r cynnig. Rwy'n cefnogi gwelliant 2. Rwy'n cefnogi gwelliant 4. Mae fy ngwelliant i'n syml iawn—mae’r neges yn syml. Dywed fod y Cynulliad hwn—ni yma, pob Aelod Cynulliad—yn cefnogi adran damweiniau ac achosion brys barhaol—a dyna'r gair allweddol yma; nid oes unrhyw welliant arall nac unrhyw gynnig arall yn ei gynnwys—adran damweiniau ac achosion brys barhaol sydd ag adnoddau llawn yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Gall pob un ohonom gefnogi hynny, a gall pob un ohonom gefnogi gwelliannau ein gilydd fel y gallwn wrando ar y cyhoedd heddiw a chlywed yr hyn a ddywedasant wrthym y tu allan, a chefnogi'r cynnig a chefnogi gwelliannau ein gilydd, ac eithrio gwelliant 1.

Mae iechyd y GIG yng Nghymru mewn argyfwng. Mae'r staff yn haeddu gwell. Mae'r cyhoedd yn haeddu gwell. Clywsom y tu allan, Weinidog—a gobeithio eich bod yn gwrando—fod y meddygon yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, fel y dywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod gyferbyn â mi, am i'r adran aros ar agor, dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol, 24 awr y dydd. Ganed fy merch yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ac roeddent yn gwneud gwaith aruthrol yn ôl yn y dyddiau hynny. Mae staff gwych y GIG yn ysbyty’r Mynydd Bychan yn gofalu am fy nhad ar hyn o bryd, ond roeddwn yn yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys nos Wener, a chefais fy mrawychu gan yr hyn a welais. Dywedodd staff wrthyf ei bod yn noson dawel, ac ar nosweithiau eraill, y noson gynt, roedd pobl yn eistedd ar y llawr. Rydym wedi datgan, neu mae'r Llywodraeth wedi datgan, argyfwng hinsawdd. Rwy'n teimlo bod angen inni ddatgan argyfwng iechyd. Gadewch inni bleidleisio dros y gwahanol welliannau hyn, gadewch inni wrando ar y cyhoedd, gadewch inni wrando ar y meddygon a gadewch inni gyfleu’r neges fod y Cynulliad hwn am achub yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg ar sail barhaol—y gair allweddol—yn barhaol. Diolch yn fawr.

15:25

Galwaf ar Mick Antoniw i gynnig gwelliant 4, a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw ef. 

I call on Mick Antoniw to move amendment 4, tabled in his name. 

Gwelliant 4—Mick Antoniw, Dawn Bowden, Huw Irranca-Davies, Vikki Howells

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Yn gwrthod cynigion gan Fwrdd Iechyd Cwm Taf Morgannwg i ddod â gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys 24 awr o dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg i ben ac yn galw ar y Bwrdd Iechyd i:

a) diystyru cau'r gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg neu sefydlu uned mân anafiadau 24 awr yn lle'r gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys presennol;

b) adfer yr opsiwn o gynnal gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys llawn o dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, Ysbyty'r  Tywysog Siarl ac Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru;

c) cyflwyno cynigion eraill ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd cymunedol, gan gynnwys gwelliannau i'r gwasanaeth meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau ac ymestyn oriau agor yr uned mân anafiadau yn Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda ac Ysbyty Cwm Cynon, a allai leddfu'r pwysau ar bob un o'r tair adran damweiniau ac achosion brys.

Amendment 4—Mick Antoniw, Dawn Bowden, Huw Irranca-Davies, Vikki Howells

Add as new point at end of motion:

Rejects proposals by Cwm Taf Morgannwg Health Board to end 24-hour consultant-led accident and emergency services at the Royal Glamorgan hospital and calls on the Health Board to:

a) rule out the closure of the accident and emergency service at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital or the replacing of the existing accident and emergency service with a 24 hour minor injuries unit;

b) reinstate the option of maintaining a full consultant-led accident and emergency service at the Royal Glamorgan, Prince Charles and Princess of Wales hospitals;

c) bring forward other proposals for community health services, including improvements in the out-of-hours GP service and extending the opening hours of the minor injuries unit at Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda and Ysbyty Cwm Cynon, which may alleviate the pressure on all three accident and emergency departments.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 4.

Amendment 4 moved.

Thank you, Llywydd. I move this amendment with the support of my colleagues Dawn Bowden, AM for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, Vikki Howells, AM for Cynon Valley, and Huw Irranca-Davies, the Assembly Member for Ogmore. I'm pleased to have the support of the Royal Glamorgan Hospital trade unions, who are behind this amendment. 

Llywydd, Aneurin Bevan said that

'Society becomes more wholesome, more serene, and spiritually healthier, if it knows that its citizens have at the back of their consciousness the knowledge that not only themselves, but all their fellows, have access, when ill, to the best that medical skill can provide.'

That is what this amendment is about. The establishment of the NHS is one of Labour's greatest achievements. Indeed, it is one of the Valleys's greatest achievements, since its founding principles were based on the values of our Valleys communities. In Wales we are defending the NHS, its principles, its people and its funding, from the forces of privatisation and austerity. But that is not enough. The great strength of the NHS is that it is owned by the people of Wales, and we are merely the custodians of the NHS and Nye Bevan’s legacy. To that extent we are accountable to the people who have elected us to this Welsh Parliament.

The Royal Glamorgan Hospital accident and emergency service is a vital and essential service for the people of the Pontypridd constituency who I represent, and to those in the Rhondda, Cynon Valley, Merthyr and Ogmore valleys. It is a life or death service and it is a service that none of us want to use but one we take comfort from in the knowledge that it is there for us when we need it.

It's clear to us that for six years the sword of Damocles has hung over the A&E department and has increasingly undermined the ability of Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board to recruit the necessary consultants. Last week I and my Westminster colleague Alex Davies-Jones addressed a packed public meeting in Llantrisant. Thousands more watched online, and it was clear from the health board’s contribution that recruitment is the root cause of this crisis. Indeed, many were left wondering if there would be a need for a review if the health board’s recruitment strategy had been more effective. So, whilst it is right that the health board is facing up to this emerging crisis, its starting point must be how a full, consultant-led A&E service can by guaranteed now and into the future, not what is the least painful way of closing it down.

There are five key facts emerging. The south Wales programme is massively out of date and increasingly irrelevant to the needs of the people of Rhondda Cynon Taf. Prince Charles Merthyr and Princess of Wales Bridgend do not have the capacity to safely absorb the A&E provision currently provided in Llantrisant. There is massive housing and population growth in the Taff Ely area that was never taken into account, and which will in the future only exacerbate this dilemma. Closing the department and replacing it with a minor injuries unit is just not viable. And the health board's recruitment crisis is the fundamental issue, not the hospital’s location, nor its staff, nor its funding.

The only viable options are, I believe, to rule out the option of closure of Royal Glamorgan A&E; for Cwm Taf Morgannwg LHB to reinstate the option of retaining a permanent, fully-staffed 24-hour A&E unit in the Royal Glamorgan; to bring forward additional proposals for the expansion of out-of-hours GP services and extending the opening hours of minor injuries units at Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda and Ysbyty Cwm Cynon to alleviate the pressures on all three emergency departments; and to pursue a rigorous, comprehensive recruitment campaign across all three hospitals.

Nye Bevan also said—famously said—that:

'The NHS will last as long as there are folk left with the faith to fight for it.' 

And, I think, in moving this amendment, I can assure Members that the people of the south Wales Valleys who so contributed to the establishment of the NHS have the faith to fight for the NHS and the retention of A&E services in the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. Thank you, Llywydd. 

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Cynigiaf y gwelliant hwn gyda chefnogaeth fy nghyd-Aelodau Dawn Bowden, AC Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni, Vikki Howells, AC Cwm Cynon, a Huw Irranca-Davies, Aelod Cynulliad Ogwr. Rwy'n falch o gael cefnogaeth undebau llafur Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, sydd y tu ôl i'r gwelliant hwn.

Lywydd, dywedodd Aneurin Bevan fod

Cymdeithas yn dod yn fwy iachus, yn fwy tangnefeddus, ac yn iachach yn ysbrydol, os yw'n gwybod bod ei dinasyddion yn ymwybodol nid yn unig y gallant hwy, ond y gall eu holl gymheiriaid, fanteisio ar y gorau y gall sgiliau meddygol ei ddarparu pan fyddant yn sâl.

Dyna hanfod y gwelliant hwn. Mae sefydlu'r GIG yn un o lwyddiannau mwyaf Llafur. Yn wir, mae'n un o lwyddiannau mwyaf y Cymoedd, gan fod ei egwyddorion sylfaenol yn seiliedig ar werthoedd ein cymunedau yn y Cymoedd. Yng Nghymru, rydym yn amddiffyn y GIG, ei egwyddorion, ei bobl a'i gyllid, rhag grymoedd preifateiddio a chyni. Ond nid yw hynny'n ddigon. Cryfder mawr y GIG yw ei fod yn eiddo i bobl Cymru, a gwarcheidwaid gwaddol Nye Bevan a'r GIG yn unig ydym ni. I'r graddau hynny, rydym yn atebol i'r bobl sydd wedi ein hethol i Senedd Cymru.

Mae gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn wasanaeth hanfodol a hollbwysig i bobl etholaeth Pontypridd rwy’n eu cynrychioli, ac i'r rheini yng nghymoedd y Rhondda, Cwm Cynon, Merthyr Tudful ac Ogwr. Mae'n wasanaeth bywyd neu farwolaeth ac mae'n wasanaeth nad oes yr un ohonom yn dymuno’i ddefnyddio ond un y cawn gysur o wybod ei fod yno i ni pan fydd ei angen arnom.

Mae'n amlwg i ni fod cleddyf Damocles wedi bygwth yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys ers chwe blynedd ac wedi tanseilio gallu Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf Morgannwg fwyfwy i recriwtio'r meddygon ymgynghorol angenrheidiol. Yr wythnos diwethaf, roedd un o fy nghymheiriaid yn San Steffan, Alex Davies-Jones, a minnau'n annerch cyfarfod cyhoeddus llawn dop yn Llantrisant. Roedd miloedd yn rhagor yn gwylio ar-lein, ac roedd yn amlwg o gyfraniad y bwrdd iechyd mai recriwtio sydd wrth wraidd yr argyfwng hwn. Yn wir, roedd llawer yn pendroni a fyddai angen adolygiad pe bai strategaeth recriwtio’r bwrdd iechyd wedi bod yn fwy effeithiol. Felly, er ei bod yn iawn fod y bwrdd iechyd yn wynebu'r argyfwng cynyddol hwn, mae’n rhaid i'w fan cychwyn ymwneud â sut y gellir sicrhau gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys llawn dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn awr ac yn y dyfodol, yn hytrach na beth yw'r ffordd leiaf poenus o gau'r adran.

Mae pum ffaith allweddol yn dod i'r amlwg. Mae rhaglen de Cymru wedi dyddio’n aruthrol ac yn fwyfwy amherthnasol i anghenion pobl Rhondda Cynon Taf. Nid oes gan Ysbyty'r Tywysog Siarl ym Merthyr Tudful nac Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr gapasiti i amsugno'r ddarpariaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys a ddarperir ar hyn o bryd yn Llantrisant yn ddiogel. Ceir cynnydd enfawr yn  nifer y tai a phoblogaeth yn ardal Taf Elái na chafodd ei ystyried, ac a fydd yn gwaethygu'r sefyllfa hon yn y dyfodol. Nid yw cau'r adran ac agor uned mân anafiadau yn ei lle yn ymarferol. Ac argyfwng recriwtio’r bwrdd iechyd yw’r mater sylfaenol, nid lleoliad yr ysbyty, na’i staff, na’i gyllid.

Yr unig opsiynau hyfyw, yn fy marn i, yw diystyru'r opsiwn o gau adran damweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg; fod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf Morgannwg yn adfer yr opsiwn o gadw uned damweiniau ac achosion brys 24 awr wedi’i staffio’n llawn yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg; cyflwyno cynigion ychwanegol ar gyfer ehangu gwasanaethau meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau ac ymestyn oriau agor unedau mân anafiadau yn Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda ac Ysbyty Cwm Cynon i leddfu'r pwysau ar y tair adran achosion brys; a rhoi ymgyrch recriwtio drylwyr, gynhwysfawr ar waith ar draws y tri ysbyty.

Dywedodd Nye Bevan y geiriau enwog hefyd:

Bydd y GIG yn para cyhyd â bod pobl ar ôl gyda'r ffydd i ymladd drosto.

A chredaf, wrth gynnig y gwelliant hwn, y gallaf roi sicrwydd i’r Aelodau fod gan bobl Cymoedd de Cymru, a gyfrannodd gymaint at sefydlu’r GIG, y ffydd i ymladd dros y GIG a chadw gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Diolch, Lywydd.

15:30

Back in September, I was told, on a visit, that many of the posts in the Princess of Wales were interim and subject to service-level agreements that expire later this year. Cwm Taf Morgannwg does not yet have full control over some aspects of health delivery at Princess of Wales, and, furthermore, the maternity scandal and the loss of the chief executive has delayed certain decisions. This is a heath board, a new health board, which is simply not fully separate nor fully stable— absolutely not ready to be making this kind of huge strategic change at the Royal Glamorgan. 

Members—and Mick has just done it very well now—have spoken about the demand at the Royal Glam. If it loses its consultant leads, more serious emergencies will be diverted to Bridgend, Merthyr, and even beyond. So, let's have a look at the welcome patients will get in Bridgend. The first thing to say is that they will meet warm and caring staff who work their socks off, as Angela Burns just said, who provide first-class medical and nursing care. There is no question about that. But they may have to wait 16 hours before they can be discharged by the ambulance crew into the hands of the A&E team. And they may also have to wait 72 hours for a bed to become available for them on a ward. Every inch of space in the department is utilised. Once all the bays are full, and the trolleys or chairs placed in front of the reception desk and in front of the cupboards and in the space for the Christmas tree are all full, and the corridors are full of patients in the care of ambulance crew, patients who are fit enough are asked to go and sit in the cafe. Sometimes, people who should have been transferred to wards end up having all their treatment in A&E, they’re there so long.

And all this is after the initial triage, when some patients will already have been sent to the minor injury unit section, co-located with A&E, or back out of the hospital to their GP or to the MIU in Baglan. There can be 70 people in that A&E space, which is really tiny, at any one time. And the reason for this is not lack of consultants or first-class staff. It is the inability to move patients through the hospital due to delayed transfers of care. And, as a result, there is not an inch of space for new demand displaced from the Royal Glamorgan.

Now, this is your responsibility, Minister. Whoever started this conversation, this health board is trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot, and the reason this is a pint pot is because you have not shown leadership on bedblocking. You are the Minister for Health and Social Services. Between you, both you and the now First Minister have been responsible for six years, yet my constituents with emergency needs have to sit in a chair where the Christmas tree usually goes because there is no space for them elsewhere in the hospital.

I want to move on to two points specifically on the south Wales programme, and the first is this: I went to the Princess of Wales to try and find out why their ambulance handover times were so long, whereas, in the Prince Charles Hospital, it could be as little as 15 minutes. And the answer was: a difference of opinion—a difference of medical opinion about what is safer for patients.

Minister, you and your predecessor said time after time in 2014—and you've said it again today—that you rely on medical opinion as to what constitutes a safe service. There will always be more than one medical opinion—and we've heard today from Leanne Wood that medical opinion has already changed. Your job at the time was to challenge and scrutinise, use all your lawyerly wiles to find the weaknesses in arguments put to you, as well as their strengths. What has not changed is the view of my constituents.

I don't think you did that scrutiny, Minister, hence the views of the consultants we heard earlier, and hence my second point. If you accepted in 2014, after such probing, that a safe A&E service could only be provided at two sites in what is now the CTM footprint, why is the Royal Glamorgan A&E still open? That it has become, as the argument now goes, unsafe is down to you. It is you who has allowed the department to exist—under that sword of Damocles, Mick. It cannot have been unsafe in 2014, or you'd have insisted on shutting it. But, instead of rejecting the south Wales programme, as you should have done in 2014, and allowing Cwm Taf to challenge for those consultants, to compete for them on a level playing field, you have allowed that field to tilt more and more by not challenging the board, until we are where we are now.

I am fed up, Minister, of hearing you say what you expect health boards to do. You're not the Minister for expectations—you are the Minister for Health and Social Services. So, let's see you lead like a Minister for Health and Social Services and halt these proposals now.

Yn ôl ym mis Medi, dywedwyd wrthyf, ar ymweliad, fod llawer o'r swyddi yn Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru yn rhai dros dro ac yn destun cytundebau lefel gwasanaeth sy'n dod i ben yn ddiweddarach eleni. Nid oes gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf Morgannwg reolaeth lawn eto dros rai agweddau ar y ddarpariaeth iechyd yn Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru, ac yn ychwanegol at hynny, mae'r sgandal famolaeth a cholli'r prif weithredwr wedi gohirio rhai penderfyniadau. Bwrdd iechyd yw hwn, bwrdd iechyd newydd, nad yw'n hollol ar wahân nac yn hollol sefydlog—yn sicr, nid yw’n barod i fod yn gwneud y math hwn o newid strategol enfawr yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg.

Mae'r Aelodau—ac mae Mick newydd wneud hyn yn dda iawn—wedi sôn am y galw yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Os bydd yn colli ei feddygon ymgynghorol arweiniol, bydd argyfyngau mwy difrifol yn cael eu dargyfeirio i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr, Merthyr Tudful, a hyd yn oed ymhellach. Felly, gadewch inni ystyried y croeso y bydd cleifion yn ei gael ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Y peth cyntaf i'w ddweud yw y byddant yn cyfarfod â staff twymgalon a gofalgar sy'n gweithio’n ofnadwy o galed, fel y dywedodd Angela Burns, yn darparu gofal meddygol a nyrsio o'r radd flaenaf. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth ynglŷn â hynny. Ond efallai y bydd yn rhaid iddynt aros am 16 awr cyn y gall y criw ambiwlans eu rhyddhau i ddwylo'r tîm damweiniau ac achosion brys. Ac efallai y bydd yn rhaid iddynt aros am 72 awr hefyd i wely ddod ar gael iddynt ar ward. Defnyddir pob modfedd o le yn yr adran. Pan fydd yr holl faeau’n llawn, a'r trolïau neu'r cadeiriau o flaen desg y dderbynfa ac o flaen y cypyrddau ac yn y gofod ar gyfer y goeden Nadolig i gyd yn llawn, a'r coridorau'n llawn cleifion yng ngofal y criw ambiwlans, gofynnir i gleifion sy'n ddigon iach fynd i eistedd yn y caffi. Weithiau, bydd pobl a ddylai fod wedi’u trosglwyddo i wardiau yn cael eu triniaeth i gyd yn yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys, gan iddynt fod yno cyhyd.

Ac mae hyn i gyd ar ôl y brysbennu cychwynnol, pan fydd rhai cleifion eisoes wedi cael eu hanfon i'r is-adran mân anafiadau, sydd wedi'i chydleoli gyda'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys, neu'n ôl allan o'r ysbyty at eu meddyg teulu neu i'r uned mân anafiadau ym Maglan. Gall fod 70 o bobl ar y safle damweiniau ac achosion brys hwnnw, sy'n fach iawn mewn gwirionedd, ar unrhyw un adeg. Ac nid diffyg meddygon ymgynghorol neu staff o'r radd flaenaf yw'r rheswm am hyn. Y rheswm am hyn yw’r anallu i symud cleifion drwy'r ysbyty oherwydd oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Ac o ganlyniad, nid oes modfedd o le ar gyfer galw newydd a ddaw o Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg.

Nawr, eich cyfrifoldeb chi yw hyn, Weinidog. Ni waeth pwy a ddechreuodd y sgwrs, mae'r bwrdd iechyd hwn yn ceisio gwasgu chwart i bot peint, a'r rheswm mai pot peint yw hwn yw nad ydych chi wedi dangos arweiniad ar flocio gwelyau. Chi yw'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Rhyngoch chi, rydych chi a'r Prif Weinidog bellach wedi bod yn gyfrifol am chwe blynedd, ond mae'n rhaid i fy etholwyr sydd ag anghenion brys eistedd mewn cadair lle mae'r goeden Nadolig fel arfer yn mynd gan nad oes lle iddynt mewn man arall yn yr ysbyty.

Hoffwn symud ymlaen i ddau bwynt sy’n ymwneud yn benodol â rhaglen de Cymru, a'r cyntaf yw hwn: euthum i Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru i geisio darganfod pam fod eu hamseroedd trosglwyddo o ambiwlansys mor hir, ond yn Ysbyty'r Tywysog Siarl, gallai fod cyn lleied â 15 munud. A'r ateb oedd: gwahaniaeth barn—gwahaniaeth barn feddygol am yr hyn sy'n fwy diogel i gleifion.

Weinidog, fe ddywedoch chi a'ch rhagflaenydd dro ar ôl tro yn 2014—ac rydych wedi'i ddweud eto heddiw—eich bod yn dibynnu ar farn feddygol ynglŷn â beth sy'n wasanaeth diogel. Bydd mwy nag un farn feddygol bob amser—ac rydym wedi clywed heddiw gan Leanne Wood fod barn feddygol eisoes wedi newid. Eich gwaith ar y pryd oedd herio a chraffu, defnyddio'ch holl ystrywiau twrneiaidd i ddod o hyd i'r gwendidau mewn dadleuon a gyflwynwyd i chi, ynghyd â'u cryfderau. Yr hyn nad yw wedi newid yw barn fy etholwyr.

Ni chredaf i chi wneud y gwaith craffu hwnnw, Weinidog, a dyna sydd wedi arwain at farn yr ymgynghorwyr a glywsom yn gynharach, ac felly fy ail bwynt. Os oeddech yn derbyn yn 2014, ar ôl ymchwil o'r fath, mai dim ond mewn dau safle y gellid darparu gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys diogel yn yr hyn sydd bellach yn ôl troed Bwrdd Iechyd Cwm Taf, pam fod adran damweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn dal ar agor? Eich bai chi yw ei fod bellach, fel y dywed y ddadl, yn anniogel. Chi sydd wedi caniatáu i'r adran fodoli—o dan y cleddyf Damocles hwnnw, Mick. Ni allai fod yn anniogel yn 2014, neu byddech wedi mynnu ei gau. Ond yn lle gwrthod rhaglen de Cymru, fel y dylech fod wedi’i wneud yn 2014, a chaniatáu i Gwm Taf geisio cael y meddygon ymgynghorol hynny, i gystadlu amdanynt ar gau chwarae gwastad, rydych wedi caniatáu i’r cae chwarae ogwyddo mwy a mwy drwy beidio â herio'r bwrdd, hyd nes ein bod yn y sefyllfa rydym ynddi yn awr.

Weinidog, rwyf wedi cael llond bol ar eich clywed yn dweud beth rydych yn disgwyl i fyrddau iechyd ei wneud. Nid Gweinidog disgwyliadau ydych chi—chi yw'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Felly, gadewch inni eich gweld yn arwain fel Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac yn atal y cynigion hyn yn awr.

15:35

I thank the Welsh Conservatives for tabling this important debate. Our NHS emergency departments are unable to cope and have just experienced the worst waiting times performance on record. In my region, 40 per cent of patients waited more than four hours in the Swansea Bay LHB, and almost 5,000 patients in Cwm Taf Morgannwg, which is why plans to completely or partially close the emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital are so perverse.

While the Royal Glamorgan is not in my region, these plans will have a significant and lasting impact upon my constituents. Residents in the Bridgend county borough came under Cwm Taf Morgannwg health board last April, as did the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend. I believe that the Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board's plans to either close the A&E department at the Royal Glamorgan altogether, or to operate it only during daylight hours, will have serious repercussions for the Princess of Wales Hospital. The Royal Glamorgan emergency department saw nearly 5,500 patients during December. Should the department closure go ahead, these patients would have to go to neighbouring hospitals, with the Princess of Wales in Bridgend being the closest.

The Princess of Wales is also struggling with demand. It too saw nearly 5,000 patients in December, and only around 60 per cent of those were seen within the four-hour target. The increased demand from the closure of the Royal Glamorgan emergency department could totally overwhelm the department at the Princess of Wales. And Cwm Taf say they are pressing ahead with these plans on safety grounds. However, these proposals make the service less safe, not more. My constituents are paying the price for the abject failure by the Welsh Government and the local health boards to properly plan for future demand.

While these proposals will have the greatest impact on Cwm Taf patients, their effect will be felt across Wales. And, if local health boards are allowed to concentrate services around a handful of hospitals, then we are going to need a much bigger fleet of ambulances. Are the Welsh Government recruiting more paramedics, training more ambulance staff? No, they are not—in much the same way that they did not have any integrated workforce plans, which has led us to a shortage of A&E doctors and nurses.

And it has also been suggested that politicians should not meddle in decisions about the Royal Glamorgan. But, as it puts people's lives at risk, I am proud to be standing shoulder to shoulder with our constituents for something that, if implemented, has disastrous consequences for staff and patients alike. It is pleasing that there have been Members from all parties speaking out against the closure plans, and I wholeheartedly support Mick Antoniw's amendment, and I urge others to do so. And supporting this motion and amendments 2, 3 and 4 sends out a clear message that all parties have Members who oppose the downgrading of A&E services. 

And I repeat, as Mick Antoniw said, Nye Bevan said the NHS will last as long as there are people willing to fight for it, and fight we will. 

Diolch i’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am gyflwyno'r ddadl bwysig hon. Nid yw adrannau brys ein GIG yn gallu ymdopi, ac maent newydd wynebu’r perfformiad gwaethaf erioed o ran amseroedd aros. Yn fy rhanbarth i, arhosodd 40 y cant o gleifion fwy na phedair awr ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Bae Abertawe, a bron i 5,000 o gleifion yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg, a dyna pam fod cynlluniau i gau’r adran achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn llwyr neu’n rhannol mor wrthnysig.

Er nad yw Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn fy rhanbarth i, bydd y cynlluniau hyn yn cael effaith sylweddol a pharhaol ar fy etholwyr. Daeth trigolion bwrdeistref sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr o dan fwrdd iechyd Cwm Taf Morgannwg fis Ebrill diwethaf, fel y gwnaeth Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Credaf y bydd cynlluniau Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf Morgannwg naill ai i gau'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn gyfan gwbl, neu i’w gweithredu yn ystod oriau'r dydd yn unig, yn cael effaith ddifrifol ar Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru. Gwelodd adran achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg bron i 5,500 o gleifion ym mis Rhagfyr. Pe bai’r adran yn cael ei chau, byddai'n rhaid i'r cleifion hyn fynd i ysbytai cyfagos, ac Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr yw’r agosaf.

Mae Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru hefyd yn cael trafferth gyda'r galw. Gwelsant hwythau bron i 5,000 o gleifion ym mis Rhagfyr, ac oddeutu 60 y cant yn unig o'r rheini a welwyd o fewn y targed pedair awr. Gallai'r galw cynyddol yn sgil cau adran frys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg orlethu'r adran yn Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru yn llwyr. Ac mae Cwm Taf yn dweud eu bod yn bwrw ymlaen â'r cynlluniau hyn ar sail diogelwch. Fodd bynnag, mae'r cynigion hyn yn gwneud y gwasanaeth yn llai diogel, nid yn fwy diogel. Mae fy etholwyr yn talu'r pris am fethiant llwyr Llywodraeth Cymru a'r byrddau iechyd lleol i gynllunio'n iawn ar gyfer y galw yn y dyfodol.

Er y bydd y cynigion hyn yn effeithio'n bennaf ar gleifion Cwm Taf, bydd eu heffaith i'w theimlo ledled Cymru. Ac os caniateir i fyrddau iechyd lleol ganolbwyntio gwasanaethau o amgylch llond llaw o ysbytai, bydd angen fflyd lawer mwy o ambiwlansys arnom. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn recriwtio mwy o barafeddygon, yn hyfforddi mwy o staff ambiwlans? Nac ydynt—yn yr un ffordd nad oedd ganddynt unrhyw gynlluniau integredig ar gyfer y gweithlu, sydd wedi ein harwain at brinder meddygon a nyrsys mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys.

Ac awgrymwyd hefyd na ddylai gwleidyddion ymyrryd mewn penderfyniadau am Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Ond gan ei fod yn peryglu bywydau pobl, rwy'n falch o sefyll ochr yn ochr â'n hetholwyr dros rywbeth a fyddai, pe deuai'n weithredol, yn arwain at ganlyniadau trychinebus i staff a chleifion fel ei gilydd. Mae'n braf fod Aelodau o bob plaid wedi siarad yn erbyn y cynlluniau i gau, ac rwy'n cefnogi gwelliant Mick Antoniw yn frwd, ac rwy’n annog pobl eraill i wneud hynny. Ac mae cefnogi'r cynnig hwn a gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn anfon neges glir fod gan bob plaid Aelodau sy'n gwrthwynebu israddio gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys.

Ac rwy’n ailadrodd, fel y dywedodd Mick Antoniw, fod Nye Bevan wedi dweud y bydd y GIG yn para cyhyd â bod pobl yn barod i ymladd drosto, ac fe wnawn ni ymladd.

15:40

I'm pleased to contribute to today's important debate. I think an important point to be made at the start of this debate is that nobody—certainly nobody in this Chamber—denies that the NHS needs to change and to change in a transformative way that makes it fit for the twenty-first century, not just the twentieth-century, for which it was originally designed. It is, of course, the type of change that is in question. Is that change progressive? And, most importantly, does it carry the public with it? Too often, we see that it doesn't. 

Point 1 of our motion draws attention to the concerns of patients and clinicians regarding the performance and future of NHS emergency departments. The arguments against the downgrading of services in rural Wales are well-versed. Withybush hospital in Pembrokeshire is often discussed in this Chamber; today, we have the discussion surrounding the Royal Glamorgan. The loss of vital services, including paediatrics and accident and emergency, leaves patients having to travel much greater distances for their treatment.

Now, I know, from this debate and questions earlier, and indeed previous debates that the health Minister has taken part in, that he will argue that it is the quality of the healthcare on offer that matters, and its long-term sustainability, its safety, not the distance travelled for it. But the point is that the public are clearly not convinced about this and are not being carried along with the argument in the way that they should be. So, something is clearly going wrong with the proposals before us and the Government's way of consulting. 

Now, to be fair to the Welsh Government, it's not a universally gloomy picture across Wales. The reconfiguration of services in my area, in south-east Wales, as result, primarily, of the Gwent Clinical Futures programme, which I know Lynne Neagle, Member for Torfaen, has been involved in along with me over the years as well, has, by and large, met with support from local people. There have, however, been recent concerns about the extent of the loss of services, particularly A&E from Nevill Hall, to the new Grange university hospital in Cwmbran. There is a moral here—that people support change, but can only take so much in one go, and it has to be sold to them, they have to be part of that change, engaged in it, consulted on it and action it. 

A&E is a very sensitive issue, perhaps one of the most sensitive issues in the health service. Out-patients want to be reassured that those services are going to be available where and when they need them. The term 'minor injuries unit'— and I think it was Mick Antoniw in his excellent speech who mentioned minor injuries units—whilst it may work well on paper, when people are planning the layout and the division of new services, the sad thing is that, when you're out there, on the ground, talking to people, the term 'minor injuries unit' simply does not wash. It does not cut it with the patients and it does not cut it with the clinicians. It is no substitute for an accident and emergency unit, certainly not along the lines of what we've been used to previously. 

As I say, the reconfiguration in Gwent has largely been supported and accepted, but that is certainly not the case in other parts of Wales—certainly Hywel Dda. The proposals to end 24-hour consultant-led services at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital's emergency department have, of course, caused major concerns and those have been raised in this debate. There are choices here. Yes, the NHS requires massive resourcing. Modern treatments cost money. Money has been tight. Resources are tight. But, as previous Members have said, the Welsh Government can give a steer. It can intervene, if appropriate, and it can stand up for local people and local services if it wants to, if it believes that those priorities are the priorities of the Government and of the people, and, let's face it, this is what most people want. 

I think we need to recognise that there are no easy solutions here. There are structural problems that have built up over many, many years in the NHS—prior to devolution, in fact—and problems that are not easy to resolve. Simply saying 'We will downgrade services in one area and beef up services in another'—if you're lucky—just doesn't wash in the current climate. Transformative change needs to be accompanied by a vision, a vision that carries the public and clinicians with it, that truly does what the Welsh Government often in debates in this Chamber says that it wants to do: puts the patient at the centre of the process. How often do we talk about co-production, putting the patient at the centre, putting the recipient at the centre? Yes, a great idea on paper, but it hasn't happened hitherto in debates such as this, and that is what needs to happen.

In the absence of that vision, I believe, along with other Members, that downgrades of services should at least be put on hold, that they should at least be reconsidered, and that there should be a reassessment of restructuring across Wales where it is blatantly obvious that that restructuring is not supported. And the patient really should be put at the centre of the process.

Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl bwysig hon heddiw. Credaf mai un pwynt pwysig i'w wneud ar ddechrau'r ddadl hon yw nad oes unrhyw un—yn sicr neb yn y Siambr hon—yn gwadu bod angen i'r GIG newid a newid mewn ffordd drawsnewidiol sy'n sicrhau ei fod yn addas ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, nid yr ugeinfed ganrif yn unig, fel y cafodd ei gynllunio ar ei chyfer yn wreiddiol. Y math o newid sydd dan sylw, wrth gwrs. A yw'r newid hwnnw'n flaengar? Ac yn bwysicaf oll, a yw'n mynd â’r cyhoedd gydag ef? Yn rhy aml, gwelwn nad ydyw.

Mae pwynt 1 yn ein cynnig yn tynnu sylw at bryderon cleifion a chlinigwyr ynghylch perfformiad a dyfodol adrannau brys y GIG. Mae'r dadleuon yn erbyn israddio gwasanaethau yng nghefn gwlad Cymru yn gyfarwydd. Trafodir Ysbyty Llwynhelyg yn Sir Benfro yn aml yn y Siambr hon; heddiw, cawn drafodaeth ynglŷn ag Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Mae colli gwasanaethau hanfodol, gan gynnwys pediatreg a damweiniau ac achosion brys, yn golygu bod yn rhaid i gleifion deithio pellteroedd llawer mwy i gael eu triniaeth.

Nawr, rwy'n gwybod o'r ddadl hon a chwestiynau yn gynharach, ac yn wir, o ddadleuon blaenorol y mae'r Gweinidog iechyd wedi cymryd rhan ynddynt, y bydd yn dadlau mai ansawdd y gofal iechyd a gynigir sy'n bwysig, a'i gynaliadwyedd yn y tymor hir, ei ddiogelwch, nid y pellter a deithiwyd i'w gael. Ond y pwynt yw ei bod hi'n amlwg nad yw'r cyhoedd wedi eu darbwyllo ynglŷn â hyn ac nad ydynt wedi'u perswadio gan y ddadl yn y ffordd y dylent. Felly, mae rhywbeth yn amlwg yn mynd o'i le gyda'r cynigion sydd ger ein bron a ffordd y Llywodraeth o ymgynghori.

Nawr, a bod yn deg â Llywodraeth Cymru, nid yw'n ddarlun tywyll ym mhob man yng Nghymru. Mae ad-drefnu gwasanaethau yn fy ardal i, yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, o ganlyniad, yn bennaf, i'r rhaglen Dyfodol Clinigol Gwent, y gwn fod Lynne Neagle, yr Aelod dros Dorfaen, wedi bod yn rhan ohoni gyda mi dros y blynyddoedd hefyd, ar y cyfan, wedi cael cefnogaeth y bobl leol. Fodd bynnag, cafwyd pryderon yn ddiweddar ynghylch symud gwasanaethau, yn enwedig yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys o Ysbyty Nevill Hall i ysbyty athrofaol newydd y Grange yng Nghwmbrân. Mae moeswers i’w chael yma—fod pobl yn cefnogi newid, ond fesul tipyn yn unig, ac mae'n rhaid ei werthu iddynt, mae'n rhaid iddynt fod yn rhan o'r newid hwnnw, ymwneud ag ef, mynegi barn arno a'i weithredu.

Mae adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn fater sensitif iawn, un o'r elfennau mwyaf sensitif yn y gwasanaeth iechyd o bosibl. Mae cleifion allanol yn dymuno cael sicrwydd y bydd y gwasanaethau hynny ar gael lle a phan fo'u hangen arnynt. Y term 'uned mân anafiadau'—a chredaf mai Mick Antoniw yn ei araith ragorol a soniodd am unedau mân anafiadau—er ei fod yn gweithio'n dda ar bapur o bosibl, pan fydd pobl yn cynllunio trefn a rhaniad gwasanaethau newydd, y peth trist yw, pan fyddwch chi allan ar lawr gwlad yn siarad â phobl, nid yw'r term 'uned mân anafiadau' yn gwneud y tro. Nid yw'n gwneud y tro gyda'r cleifion ac nid yw'n gwneud y tro gyda'r clinigwyr. Nid yw'n cymryd lle uned damweiniau ac achosion brys, yn sicr nid yn yr un modd â'r hyn rydym wedi arfer ag ef yn flaenorol.

Fel y dywedaf, mae'r ad-drefnu yng Ngwent wedi'i chefnogi a'i derbyn i raddau helaeth, ond yn sicr, nid yw hynny'n wir mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru—nid yn Hywel Dda yn sicr. Mae'r cynigion i ddod â gwasanaethau 24 awr dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn adran achosion brys Ysbyty Morgannwg Brenhinol i ben, wrth gwrs, wedi achosi cryn bryder ac mae'r rheini wedi'u nodi yn y ddadl hon. Mae dewisiadau i'w cael yma. Oes, mae angen adnoddau enfawr ar y GIG. Mae triniaethau modern yn costio arian. Mae arian wedi bod yn brin. Mae'r adnoddau'n brin. Ond fel y mae'r Aelodau wedi’i ddweud eisoes, gall Llywodraeth Cymru lywio pethau. Gall ymyrryd, os yw hynny’n briodol, a gall sefyll dros bobl leol a gwasanaethau lleol os yw am wneud hynny, os yw'n credu mai'r blaenoriaethau hynny yw blaenoriaethau'r Llywodraeth a'r bobl, a gadewch inni wynebu hynny, dyma y mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl ei eisiau.

Credaf fod angen inni gydnabod nad oes atebion hawdd yma. Mae problemau strwythurol wedi cronni dros flynyddoedd lawer yn y GIG—cyn datganoli, mewn gwirionedd—a phroblemau nad yw’n hawdd eu datrys. Nid yw dweud 'Byddwn yn israddio gwasanaethau mewn un ardal ac yn eu cynyddu mewn ardal arall’—os ydych yn lwcus—yn ddigon da yn y byd sydd ohoni. I gyd-fynd â newid trawsnewidiol, mae angen gweledigaeth, gweledigaeth sy'n cynnwys y cyhoedd a chlinigwyr, sy'n gwneud yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud yn aml mewn dadleuon yn y Siambr ei bod am ei wneud: rhoi'r claf ynghanol y broses. Pa mor aml y siaradwn am gydgynhyrchu, rhoi'r claf ynghanol y broses, rhoi'r sawl sy'n derbyn y gwasanaeth yn y canol? Ydy, mae'n syniad gwych ar bapur, ond nid yw wedi digwydd hyd yn hyn mewn dadleuon fel hon, a dyna ddylai ddigwydd.

Yn absenoldeb y weledigaeth honno, fel yr Aelodau eraill, rwy'n credu y dylid gohirio’r broses o israddio gwasanaethau fan lleiaf, y dylid eu hailystyried fan lleiaf, ac y dylid ailasesu ailstrwythuro ledled Cymru lle mae'n gwbl amlwg nad oes cefnogaeth i ailstrwythuro. A dylid sicrhau bod y claf ynghanol y broses.

15:45

Today's debate is the chance to send a strong message of support in favour of retaining A&E at Royal Glamorgan Hospital; to show just how many people will be affected by these health board proposals; to show just how important it is that the health board thinks again and instead brings to the table strong, safe and sustainable solutions.

I have co-submitted amendment 4 to put on the record my opposition to the closure of the A&E unit at the Royal Glamorgan. For my constituents living in Cilfynydd, Glyncoch and Ynysybwl, patient flows are towards the Royal Glamorgan. Closure of its A&E would have a clear and incontrovertible impact on their ability to access emergency healthcare.

From the number of people sending e-mails, joining social media groups, signing up to the statement of support for the Royal Glamorgan Hospital A&E issued jointly by Labour and Plaid Cymru politicians and a range of trade unions, people attending public meetings across the health board footprint, rallying outside the Senedd earlier today, we can clearly see the passionate attachment that members of the local community have to retaining the service, to making sure the people who need to use that service can access a consultant-led A&E service within their own local community.

Closure also simply doesn't make sense. For example, during 2019, the A&E service at the Royal Glamorgan was attended by nearly 64,000 people. That's over 2,000 more than Prince Charles Hospital, and 4,500 more than the Princess of Wales. While it would be iniquitous to pit one hospital against another, it is only fair to recognise that the Royal Glamorgan has the busiest A&E department in Cwm Taf Morgannwg, and it also performs extremely well. Using four, eight and 12-hour indicators, the Royal Glamorgan Hospital's A&E consistently records the highest percentage of patients being seen within less than the target waiting times. Its figures are also above the all-Wales averages for treating patients. Moreover, closure of A&E services there would increase pressure on other A&E departments, not just in Cwm Taf Morgannwg, but potentially further afield. I mentioned the A&E department in the Royal Glamorgan seeing 64,000 people in 2019. Well, let's break that down. That's over 5,000 people a month, or 166 people a day.

The health board is proposing that these people are to be seen in its other district general hospitals, but do they have the capacity to see this spike in patient numbers, especially when we consider additional house building in the area in the future will add around 20,000 additional properties just in the immediate vicinity of the Royal Glamorgan Hospital itself? No figures have been brought forward by the health board to suggest that either the Princess of Wales Hospital or the Prince Charles Hospital can absorb those extra flows. 

Such plans also ignore the geography that makes the south Wales Valleys such wonderful places to live. Distances and journey times to access the proposed alternatives are further and longer. That means more risk of missing the all-important golden hour for treatment. And when we factor in the age profile of the areas concerned, and the high levels of underlying health conditions, this is all the more serious. Indeed, the most powerful testimony in support of retaining A&E at the Royal Glamorgan is from family members attesting how accessing the service saved the lives of their loved ones.

I hope that today's debate and the united show of support from residents and representatives will encourage the health board to think again. It is already possible to see extra effort finally being put into the recruitment of much-needed consultants. So, I want to place on the record my thanks to the health board for that. But it is also a chance for us to reconsider how we make current provision even better to relieve some of the pressure from front-line A&E services. Let's re-examine the role of minor injuries units in community hospitals; they can relieve pressure from A&E units and do so much more than their name suggests—treating broken bones, for example. I believe it is frankly ludicrous that the minor injuries unit in Ysbyty Cwm Cynon isn't a walk-in clinic but rather an appointment-only service. These things need to be looked at again, and I hope that can be part of the health board's proposals.

The strength of feeling that this has aroused is clear, so I would urge colleagues to send a strong message today and to back amendment 4.

Mae'r ddadl heddiw yn gyfle i anfon neges gref o gefnogaeth o blaid cadw’r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg; i ddangos faint yn union o bobl a fydd yn cael eu heffeithio gan y cynigion hyn gan y bwrdd iechyd; i ddangos pa mor bwysig yw hi fod y bwrdd iechyd yn ailfeddwl ac yn cynnig atebion cryf, diogel a chynaliadwy yn lle hynny.

Rwyf wedi cyd-gyflwyno gwelliant 4 i gofnodi fy ngwrthwynebiad i gau'r uned damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. I fy etholwyr sy'n byw yng Nghilfynydd, Glyn-coch ac Ynys-y-bŵl, mae llif cleifion yn mynd tuag at Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Byddai cau ei adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn cael effaith glir a diymwad ar eu gallu i gael mynediad at ofal iechyd brys.

O'r nifer o bobl sy'n anfon e-byst, yn ymuno â grwpiau cyfryngau cymdeithasol, yn arwyddo'r datganiad o gefnogaeth i adran damweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg a gyhoeddwyd ar y cyd gan wleidyddion Llafur a Phlaid Cymru ac ystod o undebau llafur, pobl sy'n mynychu cyfarfodydd cyhoeddus ar draws ôl troed y bwrdd iechyd, yn ymgynnull y tu allan i'r Senedd yn gynharach heddiw, gallwn weld yn glir yr ymlyniad angerddol sydd gan aelodau o'r gymuned leol i gadw'r gwasanaeth, i sicrhau bod y bobl sydd angen defnyddio'r gwasanaeth hwnnw yn gallu cael mynediad at wasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys dan arweiniad meddyg ymgynghorol yn eu cymuned leol eu hunain.

Hefyd, nid yw cau yn gwneud synnwyr. Er enghraifft, yn 2019, mynychodd bron i 64,000 o bobl y gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Mae hynny dros 2,000 yn fwy nag Ysbyty'r Tywysog Siarl, a 4,500 yn fwy nag Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru. Er y byddai'n annheg cymharu un ysbyty â’r llall, mae'n deg cydnabod mai adran damweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yw'r brysuraf yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg, ac mae hefyd yn perfformio'n dda iawn. Gan ddefnyddio dangosyddion pedair, wyth a 12 awr, cofnodir yn gyson mai yn adran damweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg y mae'r ganran uchaf o gleifion sy'n cael eu gweld o fewn llai na'r amseroedd aros targed. Mae ei ffigurau hefyd yn uwch na chyfartaledd Cymru gyfan ar gyfer trin cleifion. Yn ogystal â hynny, byddai cau gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys yno'n cynyddu'r pwysau ar adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys eraill, nid yn unig yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg, ond ymhellach i ffwrdd o bosibl. Soniais fod yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg wedi gweld 64,000 o bobl yn 2019. Wel, gadewch i ni ddadansoddi hynny. Dyna dros 5,000 o bobl y mis, neu 166 o bobl y dydd.

Mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn cynnig y dylid gweld y bobl hyn yn ei ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth eraill, ond a oes ganddynt gapasiti i weld y cynnydd sydyn hwn yn nifer y cleifion, yn enwedig pan ystyriwn y bydd y gwaith o adeiladu tai ychwanegol yn yr ardal yn y dyfodol yn ychwanegu oddeutu 20,000 eiddo ychwanegol yng nghyffiniau Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg ei hun? Nid yw'r bwrdd iechyd wedi darparu unrhyw ffigurau sy’n awgrymu y gall naill ai Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru neu Ysbyty'r Tywysog Siarl ymdopi â llif ychwanegol o'r fath.

Mae cynlluniau o'r fath hefyd yn anwybyddu'r ddaearyddiaeth sy'n gwneud Cymoedd de Cymru’n lleoedd mor wych i fyw ynddynt. Mae pellteroedd ac amseroedd teithio i ddefnyddio'r dewisiadau amgen arfaethedig yn bellach ac yn hirach. Mae hynny'n golygu mwy o risg o golli'r awr euraidd hollbwysig ar gyfer triniaeth. A phan fyddwn yn ystyried proffil oedran yr ardaloedd dan sylw, a lefelau uchel y cyflyrau iechyd gwaelodol, mae hyn yn fwy difrifol o lawer. Yn wir, daw’r dystiolaeth fwyaf pwerus o blaid cadw’r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg gan aelodau o deuluoedd sy'n cadarnhau sut y gwnaeth mynediad at y gwasanaeth achub bywydau eu hanwyliaid.

Gobeithio y bydd y ddadl heddiw a’r gefnogaeth unedig gan drigolion a chynrychiolwyr yn annog y bwrdd iechyd i ailfeddwl. Mae eisoes yn bosibl gweld ymdrech ychwanegol yn cael ei gwneud o'r diwedd i recriwtio meddygon ymgynghorol mawr eu hangen. Felly, rwyf am gofnodi fy niolch i'r bwrdd iechyd am hynny. Ond mae hefyd yn gyfle inni ailystyried sut y gwnawn y ddarpariaeth gyfredol hyd yn oed yn well er mwyn lleddfu peth o'r pwysau ar wasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys y rheng flaen. Gadewch i ni ailedrych ar rôl unedau mân anafiadau mewn ysbytai cymunedol; gallant leddfu pwysau ar unedau damweiniau ac achosion brys a gwneud cymaint yn fwy nag y mae eu henw yn ei awgrymu—trin esgyrn sydd wedi torri, er enghraifft. Credaf ei bod yn warthus, a dweud y gwir, nad yw'r uned mân anafiadau yn Ysbyty Cwm Cynon yn glinig galw i mewn ond yn hytrach yn wasanaeth apwyntiad yn unig. Mae angen edrych ar y pethau hyn eto, ac rwy'n gobeithio y gall hynny fod yn rhan o gynigion y bwrdd iechyd.

Mae cryfder y teimlad y mae hyn wedi’i ennyn yn glir, felly hoffwn annog fy nghyd-Aelodau i anfon neges gref heddiw a chefnogi gwelliant 4.

15:50

I rise to speak to the motion today because of the solidarity I want to show with those people who are campaigning for their hospital services in south Wales at the moment, particularly in terms of the emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. I've been there, I've done that, I've got the T-shirt, and I've got the scars to show it: for the campaign, which was a cross-party campaign, that we had to have in order to save our maternity services in north Wales. 

The tall and short of the lesson that I learned in that campaign was that you only ever get the right result when Ministers actually intervene, because that was the situation for us. We were told that services were unsafe and unstable; they had been made unsafe and unstable because of the uncertainty surrounding the future of those services, which is exactly the same case as the situation at the Royal Glamorgan's emergency department right now. The situation was so unstable, we were told that the service would have to close, and there were plans, of course, then to change those services and remove the consultant-led maternity services from Glan Clwyd Hospital, as was the case at the time. 

It took thousands of people marching on the streets—tens of thousands; it took tens of thousands of people signing letters and signing petitions in order to make their voice heard; and it took politicians putting their party politics aside, embracing one another and standing shoulder to shoulder in order to campaign for those services to be retained. Because of that action, that concerted action on a cross-party basis, the then First Minister did actually decide to intervene. And we look to you today as health Minister here in Wales, Vaughan Gething, and we plead with you to be brave enough to challenge the information that's been put before you and to listen to the chorus of voices that was chanting outside of the Senedd earlier on this afternoon, calling for the sitaution to be resolved through your intervention, because I don't believe that it will be resolved without it. 

I want to talk just for a few moments about the fragility of emergency departments, not just in south Wales at the Royal Glamorgan, but of course elsewhere in the country. We know that we have a 95 per cent target for people to be in and out of emergency departments within four hours. Regrettably, that target has never been met. In fact, the situation in terms of the worst performance against that target is, unfortunately, in north Wales. The poorest performing hospital in north Wales at the moment is Wrexham Maelor, which has been breaking records across the whole of the NHS, UK wide. You've got just a one in two chance of getting out of that emergency department within that four-hour target at the moment in Wrexham Maelor Hospital, and a slightly better chance at Glan Clwyd, but still one in two. Two out of 10 people at Glan Clwyd Hospital will wait more than 12 hours—two out of 10. One in five people who walks through the door in an emergency situation will not be discharged for at least 12 hours. 

Now, we know that it's a combination of things that gives rise to these appalling performance statistics. One of them, as has already been referred to, is the number of beds in a hospital. We've seen, over the past decade, certainly in north Wales, one in four beds have been axed from our hospitals. That's bound to have pressure at the front door, which is the emergency department, because if you can't discharge a person from the emergency department into a hospital bed when they need one, then unfortunately they're going to clog the front end of the hospital.

Of course, that leads on to problems then with our ambulance services, because ambulances arrive, they want to discharge patients into the emergency department so that they can get off to respond to the next call, and they're unable to do so. As a result of that, unfortunately, we've seen patients dying while waiting for ambulances, and sometimes facing the indignity of dying in car parks in the back of ambulances outside of our hospital front doors, when the assistance they need is just yards away. It is absolutely frightening.

So, we need extra resources in our national health service, more beds in our hospitals, and we need you, Minister, to intervene in this situation in the Royal Glamorgan Hospital and stand shoulder to shoulder with your colleagues on the backbenches—and I take my hat off to each and every one of them today for challenging your Government over this. We will continue to campaign with those people who were marching outside the Senedd today until we know that the future of these services is secure.

Codaf i siarad am y cynnig heddiw oherwydd yr undod yr hoffwn ei ddangos gyda'r bobl hynny sy'n ymgyrchu dros eu gwasanaethau ysbyty yn ne Cymru ar hyn o bryd, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â’r adran achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Rwyf wedi bod yno, wedi gwneud hynny, mae gennyf y crys-T, ac mae gennyf y creithiau i ddangos hynny: yr ymgyrch, a oedd yn ymgyrch drawsbleidiol, y bu’n rhaid i ni ei chael er mwyn achub ein gwasanaethau mamolaeth yng ngogledd Cymru.

Hyd a lled y wers a ddysgais yn yr ymgyrch honno oedd mai dim ond pan fydd Gweinidogion yn ymyrryd y byddwch yn cael y canlyniad cywir mewn gwirionedd, gan mai dyna oedd y sefyllfa i ni. Dywedwyd wrthym fod gwasanaethau'n anniogel ac yn ansefydlog; fe'u gwnaed yn anniogel ac yn ansefydlog oherwydd yr ansicrwydd ynghylch dyfodol y gwasanaethau hynny, sy'n union yr un peth â'r sefyllfa yn adran achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg ar hyn o bryd. Roedd y sefyllfa mor ansefydlog, dywedwyd wrthym y byddai'n rhaid i'r gwasanaeth gau, ac roedd cynlluniau wedyn, wrth gwrs, i newid y gwasanaethau hynny a chael gwared ar y gwasanaethau mamolaeth dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol o Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, fel oedd hi ar y pryd.

Bu’n rhaid i filoedd o bobl orymdeithio ar y strydoedd—degau o filoedd; bu’n rhaid i ddegau o filoedd o bobl lofnodi llythyrau a llofnodi deisebau er mwyn sicrhau bod eu llais yn cael ei glywed; a bu’n rhaid i wleidyddion roi gwleidyddiaeth bleidiol o’r neilltu, a chroesawu ei gilydd a sefyll ochr yn ochr er mwyn ymgyrchu dros gadw’r gwasanaethau hynny. Oherwydd gweithredu o'r fath, gweithredu cydunol ar sail drawsbleidiol, penderfynodd y Prif Weinidog ar y pryd ymyrryd. Ac edrychwn tuag atoch chi heddiw fel Gweinidog iechyd yma yng Nghymru, Vaughan Gething, ac rydym yn erfyn arnoch i fod yn ddigon dewr i herio'r wybodaeth a gyflwynwyd i chi ac i wrando ar y corws o leisiau a fu’n siantio y tu allan i'r Senedd yn gynharach y prynhawn yma, yn galw am eich ymyrraeth i ddatrys y broblem, gan na chredaf y caiff ei datrys fel arall.

Hoffwn siarad am ychydig eiliadau'n unig am ba mor fregus yw adrannau brys, nid yn unig yn ne Cymru yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ond mewn rhannau eraill o'r wlad, wrth gwrs. Gwyddom fod gennym darged o 95 y cant i bobl fod i mewn ac allan o adrannau brys o fewn pedair awr. Yn anffodus, nid yw’r targed hwnnw wedi’i gyrraedd erioed. Mewn gwirionedd, yn anffodus, mae'r sefyllfa o ran y perfformiad gwaethaf yn erbyn y targed hwnnw yng ngogledd Cymru. Yr ysbyty sy'n perfformio waethaf yng ngogledd Cymru ar hyn o bryd yw Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam, sydd wedi bod yn gwneud yn waeth nag unrhyw le arall ar draws y GIG cyfan, ledled y DU. Mae eich gobaith o adael yr adran achosion brys o fewn y targed pedair awr ar hyn o bryd yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam yn 50 y cant, ac nid yw fawr gwell yng Nglan Clwyd, ond yn dal i fod tua 50 y cant. Bydd dau o bob 10 o bobl yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd yn aros mwy na 12 awr—dau o bob 10. Ni fydd un o bob pump o bobl sy'n dod drwy'r drws mewn argyfwng yn cael eu rhyddhau am o leiaf 12 awr.

Nawr, gwyddom fod cyfuniad o bethau'n arwain at yr ystadegau perfformiad echrydus hyn. Un ohonynt, fel y nodwyd eisoes, yw nifer y gwelyau mewn ysbyty. Dros y degawd diwethaf, yn sicr yng ngogledd Cymru, rydym wedi gweld bod un o bob pedwar gwely wedi cael eu golli o'n hysbytai. Mae hynny'n sicr o arwain at bwysau wrth ddrws blaen yr ysbyty, sef yr adran achosion brys, oherwydd os na allwch ryddhau unigolyn o'r adran achosion brys i wely ysbyty pan fydd angen un arnynt, yna yn anffodus, maent yn mynd i achosi tagfeydd ar ben blaen yr ysbyty.

Wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n arwain at broblemau wedyn gyda'n gwasanaethau ambiwlans, gan fod ambiwlansys yn cyrraedd, maent am ryddhau cleifion i'r adran achosion brys fel y gallant ymateb i'r alwad nesaf, ac ni allant wneud hynny. O ganlyniad i hynny, yn anffodus, rydym wedi gweld cleifion yn marw wrth aros am ambiwlansys, ac weithiau'n wynebu’r sarhad o farw mewn meysydd parcio mewn ambiwlansys y tu allan i ddrysau blaen ein hysbytai, pan fydd y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt ychydig lathenni i ffwrdd. Mae'n hollol frawychus.

Felly, mae arnom angen adnoddau ychwanegol yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, mwy o welyau yn ein hysbytai, ac mae angen i chi, Weinidog, ymyrryd yn y sefyllfa hon yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg a sefyll ochr yn ochr â'ch cyd-Aelodau ar y meinciau cefn—a chodaf fy het i bob un ohonynt heddiw am herio'ch Llywodraeth ar hyn. Byddwn yn parhau i ymgyrchu gyda’r bobl a fu’n gorymdeithio y tu allan i’r Senedd heddiw hyd nes y gwyddom fod dyfodol y gwasanaethau hyn yn ddiogel.

15:55

Mae Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg angen ei adran achosion brys.

The Royal Glamorgan Hospital needs its emergency department.

The Royal Glamorgan Hospital needs its A&E, and it needs it to be consultant led to be able to deal 24/7 with acute medical emergencies and significant trauma. Of course, major traumas—burns and so on—are better treated in specialist centres, but lives will be lost and pressure will become unbearable on other accident and emergency units within the health board and beyond if the downgrade or closure were to take place. I'm sure Ministers are aware that, as well as the consultants at the Royal Glamorgan saying today that they want to keep their A&E, doctors at the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff are screaming, 'Please don't close the A&E at the Royal Glam, because we'll be overwhelmed.' Centralisation and the potential pitfalls of that has been a decade-long theme in Welsh politics. It's happening now with the disastrous removal of vascular services from Ysbyty Gwynedd. We're seeing it again at the Royal Glamorgan with A&E.

We have plenty of studies that suggest this isn't the right thing to do. There was a University of Sheffield study in 2007 analysing over 10,000 emergency calls that found a relationship between distance to hospital and mortality. It found that a 10 km increase in distance is associated with around 1 per cent absolute increase in mortality. There are other studies too: a study finding that an increase in journey time of 10 minutes has a 7 per cent increase in the relative risk of death. In this case—with this hospital, that geography, the weather as it can be, and traffic as it can be—10 minutes isn't close to what people would have to travel in addition if this A&E were to close. So, on balance, apart from those major trauma issues and so on that I mentioned, we are convinced here that we need to keep this A&E for the sake of patient safety.

On recruitment, consultants at the Royal Glamorgan are confident that the right medics can be recruited, not least by raising the threat of the closure of the department itself or the downgrading of it. I remember the plan to remove consultant-led maternity services from Ysbyty Gwynedd. We, the community, protested and the decision was overturned. And do you know what? Suddenly, recruitment was no problem and staffing levels were brought up to what was needed in terms of patient safety. So, let's build a future for A&E at the Royal Glamorgan as we seek to build a sustainable and locally focused Welsh NHS as a whole, and let's do it for the sake of the communities and the people that it serves.

Mae angen ei adran damweiniau ac achosion brys ar Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ac mae angen iddi gael ei harwain gan feddygon ymgynghorol i allu ymdrin bob awr o bob dydd ag argyfyngau meddygol acíwt a thrawma sylweddol. Wrth gwrs, mae trawma sylweddol—llosgiadau ac ati—yn cael eu trin yn well mewn canolfannau arbenigol, ond byddai bywydau'n cael eu colli a byddai pwysau'n dod yn llethol ar unedau damweiniau ac achosion brys eraill yn y bwrdd iechyd a thu hwnt pe bai'r adran yn cael ei hisraddio neu ei chau. Rwy'n siŵr fod y Gweinidogion yn ymwybodol, yn ogystal â bod y meddygon ymgynghorol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn dweud heddiw eu bod am gadw eu hadran damweiniau ac achosion brys, fod meddygon yn Ysbyty Athrofaol Cymru yng Nghaerdydd yn sgrechian, 'Peidiwch â chau'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, gan y byddwn yn cael ein gorlethu.' Mae canoli a’r peryglon posibl yn sgil hynny wedi bod yn thema yng ngwleidyddiaeth Cymru ers degawd. Mae'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd, gyda’r trychineb o gael gwared ar wasanaethau fasgwlaidd o Ysbyty Gwynedd. Rydym yn ei weld eto yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg gyda'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys.

Mae gennym ddigon o astudiaethau sy'n awgrymu nad dyma'r peth iawn i'w wneud. Cynhaliwyd astudiaeth gan Brifysgol Sheffield yn 2007 a ddadansoddodd dros 10,000 o alwadau brys, a chanfu berthynas rhwng pellter i'r ysbyty a marwolaethau. Canfu fod cynnydd o 10 km mewn pellter yn gysylltiedig â chynnydd absoliwt o oddeutu 1 y cant mewn marwolaethau. Ceir astudiaethau eraill hefyd: astudiaeth a ganfu fod cynnydd o 10 munud yn yr amser teithio yn arwain at gynnydd o 7 y cant yn y risg gymharol o farwolaeth. Yn yr achos hwn—gyda’r ysbyty hwn, y ddaearyddiaeth honno, y tywydd fel y gall fod, a'r traffig fel y gall fod—nid yw 10 munud yn agos at yr amser ychwanegol y byddai'n rhaid i bobl deithio pe bai'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys hon yn cau. Felly, ar ôl pwyso a mesur, ar wahân i'r materion trawma mawr hynny ac ati y soniais amdanynt, rydym yn argyhoeddedig yma fod angen inni gadw'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys hon er diogelwch y cleifion.

O ran recriwtio, mae meddygon ymgynghorol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn hyderus y gellir recriwtio’r meddygon cywir, yn anad dim drwy gael gwared ar y bygythiad o gau’r adran neu ei hisraddio. Cofiaf y cynllun i gael gwared ar wasanaethau mamolaeth dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol o Ysbyty Gwynedd. Buom ni, y gymuned, yn protestio a chafodd y penderfyniad ei wrthdroi. Ac a wyddoch chi beth? Yn sydyn, nid oedd recriwtio’n broblem a chodwyd lefelau staffio i'r lefel angenrheidiol o ran diogelwch cleifion. Felly, gadewch inni adeiladu dyfodol i'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg wrth i ni geisio adeiladu GIG Cymru sy'n gynaliadwy ac sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr ardaloedd lleol, a gadewch inni wneud hynny er lles y cymunedau a'r bobl y mae'n eu gwasanaethu.

Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Vaughan Gething.

I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething.

Thank you, Llywydd. Before I deal with the wider issues raised by Members in today's debate, I want to start by thanking our staff, because the quality and the compassion of our staff is always the focus for praise when people contact me. It helps to explain why, despite the continuing pressures our NHS faces, we continue to see such extraordinarily high levels of public satisfaction across NHS Wales. As the First Minister reminded Members yesterday, when the public are asked, 93 per cent of people are happy with their own experience of local or hospital-based care. The importance of our NHS and the public attachment to it has been reflected on the Senedd steps and in today's debate, as it has been on so many occasions before. So many of us, including me, have good reason to be grateful for our national health service. The safety of our NHS now and in the future is of paramount importance.

Many of the questions that I have faced in this Chamber as the health Minister over the last year have focused upon where the safety and transparency of the service were not the first and overriding priority. I will not, and I'm sure that Members across the Chamber do not seriously expect me to intervene by directing or attempting to direct any health board or trust to try to run an unsafe service as long as it is local. The professional judgment call on the future immediate safety of the A&E service at the Royal Glamorgan has been made, as it should be, by the medical director, the senior doctor in the health board.

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Cyn i mi sôn am y materion ehangach a godwyd gan Aelodau yn y ddadl heddiw, hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i’n staff, gan fod ansawdd a thosturi ein staff bob amser yn cael ei ganmol pan fydd pobl yn cysylltu â mi. Mae hynny'n helpu i egluro pam ein bod yn parhau i weld lefelau mor eithriadol o uchel o foddhad ymhlith y cyhoedd ar draws GIG Cymru, er gwaethaf y pwysau parhaus y mae ein GIG yn ei wynebu. Fel y gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog atgoffa’r Aelodau ddoe, pan ofynnir i’r cyhoedd, mae 93 y cant o bobl yn fodlon â’u profiad eu hunain o ofal lleol neu mewn ysbyty. Mae pwysigrwydd ein GIG a'r ymlyniad cyhoeddus wrtho wedi'i adlewyrchu ar risiau'r Senedd ac yn y ddadl heddiw, fel sydd wedi digwydd ar gymaint o achlysuron o'r blaen. Mae gan gynifer ohonom, gan fy nghynnwys i, reswm da i fod yn ddiolchgar am ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae diogelwch ein GIG yn awr ac yn y dyfodol o'r pwys mwyaf.

Mae llawer o'r cwestiynau rwyf wedi'u hwynebu yn y Siambr hon fel y Gweinidog iechyd dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf wedi canolbwyntio ar achosion lle nad oedd diogelwch a thryloywder y gwasanaeth yn flaenoriaeth gyntaf a phwysicaf. Ni wnaf ymyrryd, ac rwy'n siŵr nad yw'r Aelodau ar draws y Siambr yn disgwyl o ddifrif i mi ymyrryd drwy gyfarwyddo neu geisio cyfarwyddo unrhyw fwrdd iechyd neu ymddiriedolaeth i geisio gweithredu gwasanaeth anniogel cyhyd â'i fod yn lleol. Mae'r farn broffesiynol ar ddiogelwch uniongyrchol y gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg wedi'i rhoi, fel y dylai, gan y cyfarwyddwr meddygol, yr uwch feddyg yn y bwrdd iechyd.

16:00

But that, however, is plainly not the end of the matter. The health board, in considering any possible change of this nature, has to be open and transparent about the following matters as a minimum—

Ond yn amlwg nid dyna ddiwedd y mater. Wrth ystyried unrhyw newid posibl o'r math hwn, mae’n rhaid i’r bwrdd iechyd fod yn agored ac yn dryloyw ynghylch y materion canlynol fan lleiaf—

I'm going to deal with this, because I've got lots to deal with.

The immediate and longer term reasons behind any potential service change; the options that it is considering; and the impact of any of those options, including the impacts of doing nothing. And the impacts of options for change should, of course, include the impact on quality, safety and access in terms of time and geography. And the information on demand and need for current and future services should be openly shared with the public. The health board should set out how it will listen to and engage with the public and its staff. 

All of these matters should be shared with elected representatives and, of course, the local community health council. And that staff and trade union engagement is essential to current and any future provision. I really do understand that people have very real concerns and fears about the future service at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital and what it will mean for their families and community. I fully expect elected representatives to represent the concerns of their constituents and to press for alternatives, and that includes the impact of any proposals on community services on Ysbyty Cwm Cynon and the future of Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda, as well as Prince Charles Hospital, the Princess of Wales Hospital and Cardiff. 

It may be helpful to respond to the concerns that some Members have expressed today, both within and outside the Chamber, about other services. The health board set out yesterday that they will not be closing other services—no theatres and no intensive therapy units closing, and there will not be job losses if service change proceeds.

The Government amendment notes the joint cross-party statement about the future of emergency services in Cwm Taf Morgannwg. Within that statement, a range of information is requested from the health board about the evidence underpinning proposals for change and their impact. I expect that information to be made publicly available or an explanation of why not.

And I hear what Members have said today and before about the south Wales programme. Now, this wasn't determined centrally by the Welsh Government; it came from engaging over 500 front-line clinicians who live, work in and serve communities across south Wales. The final agreed position of the south Wales programme six years ago was for a 24-hour minor injury unit at the Royal Glamorgan. It's already developed and been at the leading edge across Wales at the Royal Glamorgan of acute medical care that would have previously gone to A&E. It's already developing, of course, the £6 million diagnostic hub we've heard so much about in reference to its impact upon cancer services.

However, I recognise that the health board are already reconsidering the 24-hour MIU plan, and they have set out possible options for consultant-led care to continue on the site. In considering a way forward, I understand that the health board are indeed reflecting upon the outcome of the south Wales programme, the changes made since then to the delivery of healthcare and the healthcare needs of current and the future population in the area and, of course, the unavoidable reality of staff recruitment. As Members across the Chamber know, simply calling for the south Wales programme to end doesn't answer the problem; it avoids the problem.

I've discussed at length and on a number of occasions the challenges of attracting and retaining emergency medicine consultants in what is a shortage profession across the UK, and indeed a highly competitive international field of recruitment. The immediacy of the current position in Cwm Taf Morgannwg has arisen because of immediate staff shortages that will arise at the end of March. It would not be honest or realistic for any Government to sign up to the wording of the Plaid Cymru amendment. It isn't a credible plan to simply instruct staff from Merthyr or Bridgend to work nights at a different hospital, and we all know from our own experience that staff shortages have led to service change because otherwise the service would be unsafe.

But we are not standing by and doing nothing. We are already developing a joint health and social care workforce strategy. Four doctors in training are expected to complete their certificate of completion training in emergency medicine this summer and to take up posts as consultants across Wales. Between 2021 and 2025, a further 62 doctors are expected to complete their certificate of completion of training for emergency medicine as well. The national unscheduled care board has been established and has reviewed workforce requirements for emergency medicine and further expansion of the consultant workforce, which is supported by Health Education and Improvement Wales. However, that in itself isn't an answer to all the concerns of Members and the public. The truth is that there are no quick or easy fixes.

The Government will vote against the motion to ensure that we reach the Government amendment that balances our expectations on how the health board makes a decision with the legal responsibility of Ministers. As Members across the Chamber know, Ministers, myself in particular, could ultimately have to determine a final service decision. The Government will, therefore, abstain on amendments 3 and 4.

I know that people care deeply about the future of our NHS. I do too. I expect all of our decision makers in our national health service to listen to what the public and their elected representatives have to say, and to be open, honest and transparent with the public and their staff. I expect our NHS to make choices that deliver a robust and safe service. It's what I expect for my family and I expect nothing less for the country.

Rwy'n mynd i ymdrin â hyn oherwydd mae gennyf lawer i’w drafod. 

Y rhesymau uniongyrchol a mwy hirdymor am unrhyw newid posibl i’r gwasanaeth; yr opsiynau y mae'n eu hystyried; ac effaith unrhyw rai o'r opsiynau hynny, gan gynnwys effeithiau gwneud dim. Ac wrth gwrs, dylai effeithiau opsiynau ar gyfer newid gynnwys yr effaith ar ansawdd, diogelwch a mynediad o ran amser a daearyddiaeth. A dylid rhannu'r wybodaeth am y galw a'r angen am wasanaethau presennol ac yn y dyfodol yn agored gyda'r cyhoedd. Dylai'r bwrdd iechyd nodi sut y bydd yn gwrando ar y cyhoedd a'i staff ac yn ymgysylltu â hwy. 

Dylai'r holl faterion hyn gael eu rhannu â chynrychiolwyr etholedig, a’r cyngor iechyd cymuned lleol wrth gwrs. Ac mae ymgysylltiad staff ac undebau llafur yn hanfodol i'r ddarpariaeth bresennol ac unrhyw ddarpariaeth yn y dyfodol. Rwy'n deall yn iawn fod gan bobl bryderon ac ofnau gwirioneddol am y gwasanaeth yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn y dyfodol a'r hyn y bydd yn ei olygu i'w teuluoedd a'u cymunedau. Rwy’n disgwyl i gynrychiolwyr etholedig gyflwyno pryderon eu hetholwyr a phwyso am ddewisiadau amgen, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys effaith unrhyw gynigion ynghylch gwasanaethau cymunedol ar Ysbyty Cwm Cynon a dyfodol Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda, yn ogystal ag Ysbyty’r Tywysog Siarl, Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru a Chaerdydd. 

Efallai y byddai'n ddefnyddiol ymateb i'r pryderon y mae rhai o’r Aelodau wedi'u mynegi heddiw yn y Siambr a'r tu allan ynglŷn â gwasanaethau eraill. Mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi nodi ddoe na fyddant yn cau gwasanaethau eraill—ni fydd unrhyw theatrau'n cau, nac unedau therapi dwys, ac ni fydd swyddi'n cael eu colli os bydd y newid i wasanaethau'n mynd rhagddo. 

Mae gwelliant y Llywodraeth yn nodi’r datganiad trawsbleidiol ar y cyd am ddyfodol gwasanaethau brys yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg. Yn y datganiad hwnnw, gofynnir am ystod o wybodaeth gan y bwrdd iechyd am y dystiolaeth sy'n sail i gynigion ar gyfer newid a'u heffaith. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r wybodaeth honno gael ei rhyddhau i'r cyhoedd neu esboniad pam na wneir hynny. 

Ac rwy'n clywed yr hyn y mae'r Aelodau wedi'i ddweud heddiw a chyn hynny am raglen de Cymru. Nawr, ni phenderfynwyd ar hyn yn ganolog gan Lywodraeth Cymru; deilliodd o ymgysylltu â dros 500 o glinigwyr rheng flaen sy'n byw, yn gweithio ac yn gwasanaethu mewn cymunedau ledled de Cymru. Y safbwynt terfynol y cytunwyd arno ynghylch rhaglen de Cymru chwe blynedd yn ôl oedd cael uned mân anafiadau 24 awr yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Eisoes, mae wedi datblygu ac mae wedi bod ar flaen y gad ledled Cymru yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg o ran gofal meddygol acíwt a fyddai wedi mynd yn flaenorol i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Wrth gwrs, mae eisoes yn datblygu’r hyb diagnostig gwerth £6 miliwn y clywsom gymaint o sôn amdano mewn perthynas â'i effaith ar wasanaethau canser.

Fodd bynnag, rwy’n cydnabod bod y bwrdd iechyd eisoes yn ailystyried y cynllun uned mân anafiadau 24 awr, ac maent wedi nodi opsiynau posibl er mwyn i ofal dan arweiniad meddyg ymgynghorol barhau ar y safle. Wrth ystyried ffordd ymlaen, deallaf fod y bwrdd iechyd yn ystyried canlyniadau rhaglen de Cymru, y newidiadau a wnaed ers hynny i'r ddarpariaeth gofal iechyd ac anghenion gofal iechyd y boblogaeth bresennol a’r boblogaeth yn y dyfodol yn yr ardal ac wrth gwrs, y realiti na ellir ei osgoi o ran recriwtio staff. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau ar draws y Siambr, nid yw galw’n unig am ddod â rhaglen de Cymru i ben yn ateb y broblem; mae'n osgoi'r broblem. 

Rwyf wedi trafod yn helaeth ac ar sawl achlysur yr heriau o ddenu a chadw meddygon ymgynghorol meddygaeth frys mewn proffesiwn lle ceir prinder ledled y DU, ac yn wir mewn maes recriwtio sy’n gystadleuol iawn yn rhyngwladol. Y rheswm dros natur ddisyfyd y sefyllfa bresennol yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg yw prinder staff uniongyrchol a welir ddiwedd mis Mawrth. Ni fyddai'n onest nac yn realistig i unrhyw Lywodraeth gytuno â geiriad gwelliant Plaid Cymru. Nid yw gwneud dim mwy na chyfarwyddo staff o Ferthyr Tudful neu Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr i weithio nosweithiau mewn ysbyty gwahanol yn gynllun credadwy, ac mae pawb ohonom yn gwybod o'n profiad ein hunain fod prinder staff wedi arwain at newid gwasanaethau oherwydd fel arall ni fyddai'r gwasanaeth yn ddiogel.

Ond nid ydym yn sefyll naill ochr a gwneud dim. Rydym eisoes yn datblygu strategaeth gweithlu iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ar y cyd. Disgwylir i bedwar meddyg sy'n hyfforddi gwblhau eu tystysgrif cwblhau hyfforddiant mewn meddygaeth frys yn ystod yr haf eleni ac i gael swyddi fel meddygon ymgynghorol ledled Cymru. Rhwng 2021 a 2025, disgwylir i 62 yn rhagor o feddygon gwblhau eu tystysgrif cwblhau hyfforddiant ar gyfer meddygaeth frys hefyd. Mae'r bwrdd cenedlaethol ar ofal heb ei drefnu wedi'i sefydlu ac mae wedi adolygu gofynion y gweithlu ar gyfer meddygaeth frys ac ehangu'r gweithlu meddygon ymgynghorol ymhellach, camau a gefnogir gan Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny ynddo'i hun yn ateb i holl bryderon yr Aelodau a'r cyhoedd. Y gwir amdani yw nad oes atebion cyflym na hawdd.

Bydd y Llywodraeth yn pleidleisio yn erbyn y cynnig i sicrhau ein bod yn cyrraedd gwelliant y Llywodraeth sy'n cydbwyso ein disgwyliadau ynglŷn â sut y mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn gwneud penderfyniad gyda chyfrifoldeb cyfreithiol Gweinidogion. Fel y gŵyr Aelodau ar draws y Siambr, gallai Gweinidogion, a minnau'n benodol, orfod gwneud penderfyniad terfynol ar wasanaeth. Felly, bydd y Llywodraeth yn ymatal ar welliannau 3 a 4.

Gwn fod pobl yn poeni'n fawr am ddyfodol ein GIG. Rwy'n poeni hefyd. Rwy'n disgwyl i'n holl wneuthurwyr penderfyniadau yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol wrando ar yr hyn sydd gan y cyhoedd a'u cynrychiolwyr etholedig i'w ddweud, ac i fod yn agored, yn onest ac yn dryloyw gyda'r cyhoedd a'u staff. Rwy'n disgwyl i'n GIG wneud dewisiadau sy'n darparu gwasanaeth cadarn a diogel. Dyna rwy'n ei ddisgwyl ar gyfer fy nheulu ac nid wyf yn disgwyl dim sy'n llai na hynny ar gyfer y wlad.

16:05

Galwaf ar Andrew R.T. Davies i ymateb i'r ddadl. Andrew R.T. Davies.

I call on Andrew R.T. Davies to reply to the debate. Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. In the time afforded to me, I'll do my best to sum up, which is about two minutes and 40 seconds.

I have to say that on that performance, Minister, I can fully understand how Jo Coburn on Daily Politics began her interview with you some months ago by saying, 'What is it like to be the worst health Minister in the United Kingdom?' You did not respond at all to a single point that various Members in this institution made to you, from the Government benches, from the opposition benches, and you failed to take a single intervention. That shows the weakness of the ground that you're on, Minister.

Also, the latter part of the statement that you made, where you said that you ultimately might have to make a decision on some of these service changes, that shows that you are responsible, and the Welsh Government are responsible, for the strategic direction of the health service. We need a decision from you to the health board to make sure that this A&E provision is kept in place. If you're not prepared to do that, at least make sure that the electorate have a chance to do that as this motion has to be put before the next Assembly election.

I would implore colleagues across this Chamber to support this motion unamended because, ultimately, it satisfies all the concerns that have been raised, from Vikki Howells's point that the Royal Glamorgan A&E department deals with 64,000 patients on an annual basis. Your own Government bench did not even respond to that, about how that service provision would be taken care of at the other two hospitals. If they're not prepared to engage with you, engage with this motion and vote for this unamended motion today because, ultimately, it'll show the Assembly speaking with one voice and calling on the Government, the only organisation that can make sure that this proposal is taken off the table.

From the Plaid Cymru benches, it was well made, the point, that if you're labouring under the south Wales programme, is it any wonder that no doctors or very few doctors have looked at this as a career opportunity, when they know that at any time soon the department is going to close down? 

Mick Antoniw, the Member for Pontypridd, touched on the point about development, and other Members touched on the point about development across the area. Twenty thousand new houses are going into this area. This is a district general hospital that is serving a growing population and, actually, to deal with proposals that were first put on the table some six years ago is completely out of synch with what is the requirement for this particular area, an area I know exceptionally well, because I've lived and breathed in that area for many, many years, and I know the people who rely on that service.

And I can see you shaking your head. Come and challenge me, then, Minister. If you want to intervene on me, intervene on me, because I'll take your intervention. You have the ability to intervene here and change the direction of these proposals, and I thank each and every one of the protesters who came before the Senedd today to show their frustration and their anger. Many of those faces, I recognise, had taken days off work because they're so concerned about these proposals that they came to the home of Welsh democracy. This motion has been put down today to respond to those concerns, and the Senedd can speak with one voice—one clear voice, as Darren Millar pointed out in his contribution. When, actually, the senior figures of Government intervene, things start to happen, as in maternity services in north Wales. So, I call on the Senedd to support this motion that's before the Chamber. Instead of just the words, start the action: press that green button and support this motion unamended today.

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Yn yr amser a roddir i mi, fe wnaf fy ngorau i grynhoi, sef tua dau funud a 40 eiliad.

Rhaid imi ddweud, ar y perfformiad hwnnw, Weinidog, gallaf ddeall yn llwyr sut y dechreuodd Jo Coburn ei chyfweliad â chi ar Daily Politics rai misoedd yn ôl drwy ddweud, 'Sut beth yw hi i fod yn Weinidog iechyd gwaethaf y Deyrnas Unedig?' Ni wnaethoch ymateb o gwbl i unrhyw bwynt a wnaeth yr amrywiol Aelodau yn y sefydliad hwn, o feinciau'r Llywodraeth, o feinciau'r gwrthbleidiau, ac fe fethoch chi dderbyn unrhyw ymyriad. Mae hynny'n dangos pa mor simsan yw'r tir rydych chi'n sefyll arno, Weinidog.

Hefyd, rhan olaf y datganiad a wnaethoch, lle dywedoch chi y gallai fod yn rhaid ichi wneud penderfyniad yn y pen draw ar rai o'r newidiadau hyn i wasanaethau, sy'n dangos mai chi sy'n gyfrifol, a Llywodraeth Cymru sy'n gyfrifol, am gyfeiriad strategol y gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae angen penderfyniad gennych chi i'r bwrdd iechyd i wneud yn siŵr fod y ddarpariaeth ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yn cael ei chadw yn ei lle. Os nad ydych chi'n barod i wneud hynny, o leiaf gwnewch yn siŵr fod yr etholwyr yn cael cyfle i wneud hynny gan fod yn rhaid cyflwyno'r cynnig hwn gerbron yn etholiad nesaf y Cynulliad.

Rwy'n erfyn ar gyd-Aelodau ar draws y Siambr i gefnogi'r cynnig hwn heb ei ddiwygio oherwydd, yn y pen draw, mae'n ateb i'r holl bryderon a godwyd, o bwynt Vikki Howells fod adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn trin 64,000 o gleifion yn flynyddol. Ni wnaeth mainc eich Llywodraeth eich hun ymateb i hynny hyd yn oed, ynglŷn â sut y byddai'r ddarpariaeth honno'n cael ei rhoi yn y ddau ysbyty arall. Os nad ydynt yn barod i ymgysylltu â chi, dylech gefnogi'r cynnig hwn a phleidleisio o blaid y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio heddiw oherwydd, yn y pen draw, bydd yn dangos bod y Cynulliad yn siarad ag un llais ac yn galw ar y Llywodraeth, yr unig sefydliad a all wneud yn siŵr fod y cynnig hwn yn cael ei dynnu'n ôl.

O feinciau Plaid Cymru, gwnaethpwyd pwynt da a nodai, os ydych yn llafurio dan raglen de Cymru, a oes ryfedd nad oes unrhyw feddygon neu nad os ond ychydig iawn o feddygon wedi edrych ar hyn fel cyfle gyrfaol, pan wyddant fod yr adran yn mynd i gau'n fuan?  

Crybwyllodd Mick Antoniw, yr Aelod dros Bontypridd, y pwynt am ddatblygu, a chrybwyllodd Aelodau eraill y pwynt am ddatblygu ar draws yr ardal. Mae 20,000 o dai newydd yn mynd i gael eu codi yn yr ardal hon. Dyma ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth sy'n gwasanaethu poblogaeth sy'n tyfu ac mewn gwirionedd, mae ymdrin â chynigion a gyflwynwyd gyntaf tua chwe blynedd yn ôl yn gwbl anghydnaws â'r hyn sydd ei angen ar yr ardal benodol hon, ardal rwy'n ei hadnabod yn eithriadol o dda, oherwydd rwyf wedi byw yno ers blynyddoedd lawer, ac rwy'n adnabod y bobl sy'n dibynnu ar y gwasanaeth hwnnw.

A gallaf eich gweld yn ysgwyd eich pen. Dewch, heriwch fi felly, Weinidog. Os ydych am ymyrryd, gwnewch hynny, oherwydd fe dderbyniaf eich ymyriad. Fe allwch ymyrryd yma a newid cyfeiriad y cynigion hyn, a diolch i bob un o'r protestwyr a ddaeth i'r Senedd heddiw i ddangos eu rhwystredigaeth a'u dicter. Rwy'n deall bod llawer o'r wynebau hynny wedi cymryd diwrnod i ffwrdd o'r gwaith am eu bod mor bryderus am y cynigion hyn ac wedi dod i gartref democratiaeth yng Nghymru. Cyflwynwyd y cynnig hwn heddiw i ymateb i'r pryderon hynny, a gall y Senedd siarad ag un llais—un llais clir, fel y dywedodd Darren Millar yn ei gyfraniad. Pan fydd ffigurau uwch y Llywodraeth yn ymyrryd mewn gwirionedd, mae pethau'n dechrau digwydd, fel yn y gwasanaethau mamolaeth yng ngogledd Cymru. Felly, galwaf ar y Senedd i gefnogi'r cynnig sydd gerbron y Siambr. Yn hytrach na dim ond y geiriau, dechreuwch weithredu: gwasgwch y botwm gwyrdd a chefnogwch y cynnig hwn heb ei ddiwygio heddiw.

16:10

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Dwi'n gohirio'r bleidlais, felly, tan y cyfnod pledleisio.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

4. Cwestiynau Amserol
4. Topical Questions

Yr eitem nesaf yw'r cwestiynau amserol, ac ni ddewiswyd rhai heddiw. 

The next item is the topical questions, and no topical questions were chosen today.

5. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
5. 90-second Statements

Felly'r datganiadau 90 eiliad sydd nesaf. Dwi'n galw ar Vikki Howells.

So, it's the 90-second statements next, and I call on Vikki Howells.

Diolch, Llywydd. February is LGBT+ history month. It's an opportunity to commemorate the past of the LGBT+ community, to celebrate its diversity and achievements and to offer hope for the future, whilst also serving as a reminder of the struggle for equal rights for all. It was first celebrated in the UK in 2005. Founded by Sue Sanders and the late Paul Patrick, its focus was on educating young people about the issues that members of the LGBT+ community face and making sure that schools feel inclusive for everyone. Since then, the occasion has gone from strength to strength.

This year, the sixteenth LGBT+ history month takes as its theme poetry, prose and plays. During the month, we can remember the rich tradition of LGBT+ poets, authors and playwrights. We can also remember the steps that have been taken towards equality in this Senedd and beyond. I would like to offer a word of congratulations on the National Assembly for Wales once again being the No. 1 workplace in Wales for LGBTQ+ employees. But there are still challenges, not least when a same-sex dance on prime-time tv can lead to hundreds of complaints to Ofcom.

I would like to offer a word of thanks to local groups, like Project Unity in my constituency, who do such important work in tackling discrimination and offering support and advice, and to say, as a proud LGBT+ ally, I stand with you during LGBT+ history month and throughout the year.

Diolch, Lywydd. Mis Chwefror yw mis hanes pobl lesbiaidd, hoyw, ddeurywiol a thrawsrywiol+. Mae'n gyfle i goffáu gorffennol y gymuned LGBT+, i ddathlu ei hamrywiaeth a'i chyflawniadau ac i gynnig gobaith i'r dyfodol, gan ein hatgoffa hefyd o'r frwydr dros hawliau cyfartal i bawb. Cafodd ei ddathlu am y tro cyntaf yn y DU yn 2005. Sefydlwyd y grŵp gan Sue Sanders a'r diweddar Paul Patrick, a chanolbwyntiai ar addysgu pobl ifanc am y problemau y mae aelodau o'r gymuned LGBT+ yn eu hwynebu a gwneud yn siŵr fod ysgolion yn teimlo'n gynhwysol i bawb. Ers hynny, mae'r achlysur wedi mynd o nerth i nerth.

Eleni, mae'n 16 o flynyddoedd ers y mis hanes LGBT+ cyntaf, a'r thema yw barddoniaeth, rhyddiaith a dramâu. Yn ystod y mis, gallwn gofio traddodiad cyfoethog beirdd, awduron a dramodwyr LGBT+. Gallwn hefyd gofio'r camau a gymerwyd tuag at gydraddoldeb yn y Senedd hon a thu hwnt. Hoffwn longyfarch Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru unwaith eto am fod yn weithle Rhif 1 yng Nghymru ar gyfer gweithwyr LGBTQ+. Ond mae yna heriau o hyd, yn enwedig pan fydd dawns rhwng pobl o'r un rhyw ar deledu oriau brig yn arwain at gannoedd o gwynion i Ofcom.

Hoffwn gynnig gair o ddiolch i grwpiau lleol, fel y Prosiect Undod yn fy etholaeth, sy'n gwneud gwaith mor bwysig ar fynd i'r afael â gwahaniaethu a chynnig cymorth a chyngor, ac i ddweud, fel cyfaill LGBT+ balch, fy mod yn sefyll gyda chi yn ystod mis hanes LGBT+ a thrwy gydol y flwyddyn.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

6. Dadl Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv): Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Ar-lein ac All-lein
6. Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Online and Offline Public Services

Item 6 on our agenda this afternoon is the Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): online and offline public services, and I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to move the motion. Rhun.

Eitem 6 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw'r ddadl Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv): gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar-lein ac all-lein, a galwaf ar Rhun ap Iorwerth i gyflwyno'r cynnig. Rhun.

Cynnig NDM7263 Rhun ap Iorwerth, Angela Burns, Janet Finch-Saunders, Llyr Gruffydd, Siân Gwenllian, Neil Hamilton, Mike Hedges, Vikki Howells, Mark Isherwood, Delyth Jewell, Helen Mary Jones, Dai Lloyd

Cefnogwyd gan Suzy Davies, Huw Irranca-Davies

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1. Yn nodi bod mwy a mwy o wasanaethau ar gael ar-lein yn unig.

2. Yn cydnabod nad oes gan bawb fynediad i'r rhyngrwyd.

3. Yn cydnabod nad yw pawb yn teimlo'n gyfforddus yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd.

4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

a) sicrhau bod dewisiadau all-lein ar gael o ran gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar-lein, megis gyda'r system adnewyddu tocynnau bws; a

b) trafod gyda banciau, busnesau a sefydliadau eraill i sicrhau nad yw cwsmeriaid yn cael eu hynysu os mai dim ond gwasanaethau ar-lein a gynigir.

Motion NDM7263 Rhun ap Iorwerth, Angela Burns, Janet Finch-Saunders, Llyr Gruffydd, Sian Gwenllian, Neil Hamilton, Mike Hedges, Vikki Howells, Mark Isherwood, Delyth Jewell, Helen Mary Jones, Dai Lloyd

Supported by Suzy Davies, Huw Irranca-Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that more and more services are only available online.

2. Recognises that not everyone has access to the internet.

3. Recognises that not everyone is comfortable with using the internet.

4. Calls on Welsh Government to:

a) ensure there are offline alternatives to online public services, such as with the bus pass renewal system; and

b) discuss with banks, businesses and other organisations to make sure that customers are not isolated if only online services are offered.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i'r Pwyllgor Busnes am ganiatáu i fi gael cyflwyno'r ddadl yma heddiw yma. Diolch hefyd i'r 13 o Aelodau eraill a oedd yn barod i'w chyd-gyflwyno efo fi neu ei chefnogi. Rydw i'n meddwl bod y nifer yna'n dangos bod hwn yn fater sydd wedi taro deuddeg efo aelodaeth y Senedd yma'n gyffredinol.

Nodi ydym ni yn y ddadl yma y nifer cynyddol o wasanaethau sydd ar gael ar-lein yn unig, tra bod llawer o bobl yn dal unai heb fynediad at y rhyngrwyd—neu heb fynediad hawdd, yn sicr—neu sydd ddim yn gyfforddus yn defnyddio'r we am ba bynnag reswm. Ac rydym ni'n gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru gamu i mewn i helpu. Nid rhyw agwedd hen ffasiwn ydy hyn. Nid ymwrthod â thechnoleg newydd ydw i; dwi'n gyfforddus iawn, fy hun, yn defnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein, a fel cymaint o bobl, mae technoleg o'r math yma wedi gwneud fy mywyd i, yn sicr, yn haws mewn llawer ffordd. Ond, fel mae mwy a mwy o wasanaethau yn mynd ar-lein, o wasanaethau bancio, post, adnewyddu tocyn bws, llysoedd, hyd yn oed, mae mwy a mwy o bobl mewn peryg o golli allan, a dwi'n gweld o waith achos yn fy swyddfa i bod hyn yn gallu bod yn boen meddwl go iawn i rai, yn enwedig pobl hŷn.

Mae diffyg mynediad at y rhyngrwyd yn broblem i rai, fel y dywedais i, nid yn unig drwy broblemau band llydan—rydych chi wedi fy nghlywed i'n sôn amdanyn nhw droeon, rydw i'n siŵr, ynghyd â nifer o Aelodau eraill—ond hefyd y ffaith bod yna lawer o bobl, eto pobl hŷn yn bennaf, heb gyfrifiaduron na ffonau clyfar. Mae swyddfa'r comisiynydd pobl hŷn yn dweud wrthyf fi fod gan bron i 30 y cant o bobl rhwng 50 a 64 oed a 65 i 74 ddim mynediad i'r rhyngrwyd. Mae hynny'n mynd i fyny bron i dros 50 y cant ymhlith pobl dros 75 oed.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank the Business Committee for allowing me to bring forward this debate today. I also thank the 13 Assembly Members who were my co-submitters of this motion, or supporters of the motion. I think that number does demonstrate that this is an issue that has struck a chord with the membership of this Senedd more generally.

We are noting in this debate the increasing number of services that are available online only, whilst many people still don't have access to the internet or don't have convenient access, certainly, or simply aren't comfortable in using the internet for whatever reason. We are asking the Welsh Government to step in to assist. This isn't some old-fashioned opinion; we're not rejecting new technology. I'm more than comfortable, myself, using online services, and like so many people, technology of this kind has certainly made my life easier in very many ways. But as more and more services do go online—banking services, postal services, bus pass renewal systems, even the courts—more and more people are at risk of being excluded. And I do see from casework in my own office that this can cause real anxiety for some people, particularly older people.

Lack of access to the internet is a problem for some, as I said, not only because of broadband problems that you will have heard me discussing numerous times in the past, along with many other Members, but also because many people, particularly older people, don't have computers or smartphones. The older people's commissioner's office tell me that almost 30 per cent of people between 50 and 64 and 65 to 75 don't have access to the internet, and that goes up to around 50 per cent, or over 50 per cent, in fact, among people over 75 years of age.

Ond nid dim ond mynediad at y rhyngrwyd sydd yn rhwystro pobl, ond y ffaith bod nifer o bobl hŷn ddim yn teimlo'n gyfforddus yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd, hyd yn oed y rhai sydd efallai'n teimlo'n gyfforddus efo e-bost neu Facebook. Efallai eu bod nhw'n dal i fod yn nerfus pan mae'n dod i wneud cais am rywbeth swyddogol fel tocyn bws neu ymdrin â gwasanaethau ariannol ar y we.

Oes, mae yna waith wedi cael ei wneud i gynyddu cynhwysiant digidol, hybu sgiliau pobl yn eu cymunedau ac ati, ond mae yna lawer o bobl hŷn yn enwedig yn mynd ati i ddewis peidio â mynd ar-lein, a dylen nhw ddim colli allan ar gyngor neu wasanaethau hanfodol o'r herwydd. Mae pobl sydd ddim ar-lein hefyd yn aml yn colli allan ar well fargeinion pan fydd hi'n dod i siopa neu wasanaethau fel newid darparwr trydan neu nwy. 

Felly, beth all y Llywodraeth ei wneud? Dwi'n galw ar y Llywodraeth i wneud dau beth, mewn difri, i gynorthwyo pobl rhag teimlo'n ynysig a rhag colli allan. Y cyntaf ydy edrych ar y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus y maen nhw eu hunain yn eu cynnig. Yr enghraifft ddiweddaraf, yr amlycaf, ydy penderfyniad Llywodraeth Cymru i wneud y system gais am docynnau bws am ddim yn un ar-lein yn unig, yn enwedig o ystyried pwy oedd y gynulleidfa darged, mi oedd hwn yn ddewis annoeth iawn, dwi'n credu. Mi ddaeth hi'n amlwg iawn yn fuan iawn drwy sgwrsio efo etholwyr fod pobl yn poeni'n fawr am orfod gwneud hyn ar-lein, a llawer ddim yn gwybod lle i ddechrau.

Mi wnaeth fy swyddfa i felly gynnig y byddem ni'n helpu pobl i wneud ceisiadau tocyn bws ar-lein, gan hysbysebu hynny drwy boster yn y ffenest, poster yn y swyddfa bost ac, wrth gwrs, lledaenu'r gair ar lafar. Ers mis Medi, mae fy swyddfa i wedi delio efo dros 300 o geisiadau am gerdyn bws newydd drwy wefan Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Tri chant o bobl oedd un ai ddim yn teimlo'n gyfforddus yn gwneud y cais eu hunain, neu heb fynediad at ryngrwyd i wneud hynny heblaw drwy ddod at ein swyddfa ni.

Buon ni'n clywed straeon am bobl yn colli cwsg yn poeni sut oedden nhw'n mynd i adnewyddu eu tocyn am eu bod nhw mor ddibynnol ar fysus. Rydyn ni dal rŵan yn cael pobl yn dod atom ni i ddweud eu bod nhw wedi trio gwneud cais ar bapur ond bod yna oedi mawr wedi bod efo hynny, a rhyw deimlad bod y ceisiadau papur wedi mynd i gefn y ciw, a hynny pan oedd y system ar-lein yn 'crash-o' drwy'r amser hyd yn oed ar y dechrau. 

Mi oedd etholwyr yn dweud wrthym ni hefyd eu bod nhw'n cael trafferth dod o hyd i gymorth wyneb yn wyneb mewn llefydd eraill er mwyn gwneud ceisiadau. Mi gafodd nifer eu cyfeirio atom ni gan lyfrgelloedd yn Ynys Môn, gan y cyngor ac ati. Mi oedden ni'n hapus iawn i helpu etholwyr, ond mae'n rhaid cwestiynu a oedd y ddarpariaeth yna gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn briodol ac a oedd y cymorth roedden nhw'n dweud oedd ar gael i gynorthwyo pobl yn ddigonol.

Mae'n amlwg bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhoi gwerth ar y tocyn bws i bobl hŷn neu bydden nhw ddim yn cynnig y gwasanaeth am ddim iddyn nhw, ac rydyn ni'n cefnogi hynny, wrth gwrs. Mae o'n bwysig iawn, iawn. Felly doedd o ddim yn gwneud synnwyr wedyn i fi eu bod nhw wedi rhoi'r rhwystr yma i'r broses hollbwysig o adnewyddu tocynnau.

I roi enghraifft arall ichi yn fy etholaeth i sy'n ymwneud â thrafnidiaeth: mi oedd etholwr yn mynd i orsaf rheilffordd ym mis Rhagfyr i ofyn am gopi papur o'r amserlen drenau newydd. Ond yr unig beth oedd ar gael i deithwyr oedd taflen yn cynghori bod yr amserlen yn newid ac i fynd ar y we. Dydy hynny ddim yn dderbyniol.

Felly, mi fuaswn i'n licio ymrwymiad gan y Llywodraeth eu bod nhw'n edrych ar sicrhau bod dewisiadau traddodiadol, dewisiadau all-lein, os liciwch chi, ar gael lle mae gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn cael eu cynnig ar-lein, ac yn enwedig—does prin angen imi ddweud hyn—pan fydd y gwasanaethau hynny wedi eu targedu at grwpiau fel pobl hŷn neu rai sydd efo anawsterau dysgu sy'n wynebu problemau tebyg.

Yr ail beth dwi'n galw amdano fo ydy i'r Llywodraeth roi pwysau ar drydydd partïon, ar y sector breifat, er enghraifft, i sicrhau nad ydy cwsmeriaid yn cael eu hynysu, ac nad ydy cwsmeriaid yn dod dan anfantais os mai dim ond gwasanaethau ar-lein sy'n cael eu cynnig. Yr enghreifftiau mwyaf amlwg, am wn i, ydy gwasanaethau bancio; dwi'n siŵr bod yna ddim un etholaeth—cywirwch fi os dwi'n anghywir—sydd ddim wedi cael ei heffeithio gan ganghennau banc yn cau. Mae 63 y cant o ganghennau yn Ynys Môn wedi cau ers Ionawr 2015, a dim ond chwe changen ar ôl ar draws yr ynys i gyd. Mi glywch chi fanc yn dweud wrth gau, 'Peidiwch â phoeni—mi all pobl ddefnyddio'r gangen yn y dref nesaf', ond yn cau honno yn ddiweddarach hefyd. Ar ben hynny, mae gennych chi sefyllfa fel gwelsom ni gan Barclays yn dweud, 'Wel, chaiff ein cwsmeriaid ni ddim tynnu arian allan yn y post, chwaith.' Roeddwn yn falch iawn ein bod ni wedi llwyddo i roi pwysau arnyn nhw i sgrapio'r syniad hwnnw.

Ond mae o'n dangos, onid ydy, ddiffyg ymrwymiad y banciau mawr i feddwl am eu cwsmeriaid, yn enwedig y rhai hŷn, ac yn benodol, byddwn i'n dweud, mewn ardaloedd gwledig? Ydw, dwi yn bancio ar-lein, ac, ydw, dwi yn sylweddoli bod hynny'n cryfhau achos y banciau dros gau. Dydw i ddim yn ddall i newid diwylliant, newid arferion y boblogaeth, a beth ydy sgileffeithiau hynny. Ond mae yna bobl sydd ddim eisiau bancio ar-lein. Dydyn nhw ddim yn ymddiried mewn bancio ar-lein, achos ei fod o'n ormod o newid diwylliant o'r hyn y maen nhw wedi arfer efo fo. Wnawn nhw ddim newid, ac maen nhw'n colli allan.

Dwi'n cofio pan es i i ymweld â chymdeithas adeiladu Yorkshire yn Llangefni pan gyhoeddwyd bod honno yn cau, ac roedd y staff yn eu dagrau yn llythrennol yn disgrifio wrthyf i'r cwsmeriaid hynny a oedd yn dod i mewn i nôl eu harian, ac yn derbyn nid un taliad mewn un amlen, ond 'Dyma chi eich arian rhent, Mrs Jones. Dyma chi eich arian ar gyfer bwyd.' Mae hwnna'n wasanaeth personol y bydd byth yn cael ei ddyblygu ar-lein, ac eithrio digidol, digital exclusion, ydy colli'r math yna o beth. Twf gwasanaethau digidol yn lleihau gwasanaethau traddodiadol a phobl sydd heb fynediad atyn nhw yn cael eu heithrio.

Enghraifft arall yn fy etholaeth yn ddiweddar oedd efo'r gwasanaeth nwy: etholwraig 92 oed yn derbyn llythyr gan British Gas yn gofyn iddi drefnu boiler maintenance check, a'i chynghori i drefnu apwyntiad ar-lein drwy'r ap. Rŵan, mi oedd hi'n poeni'n arw ar y pwynt yma, yn poeni bod yna broblem efo'i boeler hi—ac mae problem efo boeler yn gallu lladd pobl—ac yn poeni bod yna broblem efo'i boeler a hithau'n methu gwneud apwyntiad. Felly, mi ddaeth hi at fy swyddfa i, ac mi wnaethon ni gysylltu efo British Gas i wneud apwyntiad iddi hi. Eu hymateb nhw i ni oedd:

But it's not just access to the internet that is a barrier for people, but the fact that many older people simply don't feel comfortable using the internet, even those who do feel comfortable with e-mail or Facebook. Perhaps they are still nervous when it comes to making an application for something official such as a bus pass or dealing with financial services online.

Yes, some work has been done to increase digital inclusion, increase people's skills in communities and so on, but there are many older people, particularly, who choose not to go online, and they shouldn't miss out on crucial services or advice as a result of that. And people who aren't online often miss out on better deals when it comes to shopping or services such as selecting a gas or electricity provider.

So, what can the Government do? I'm calling on the Government to do two things to assist people from feeling isolated and from losing out. The first thing is to look at the public services that they themselves provide. The latest example, the more prominent example, is the decision of the Welsh Government to make the bus pass renewal system an online-only system. Particularly given who the demographic was, this was a very unwise choice, in my eyes, and you very clearly see, by speaking to constituents, that people are deeply concerned about having to do this online, and many people don't know where to start.

My office therefore offered that we would help people in making these online applications, and we advertised that through a poster in the window, a poster in the post office, and we spread the word. And since September, my office has dealt with over 300 bus pass renewal applications through the Transport for Wales website. Three hundred people who either didn't feel comfortable in making the application themselves or didn't have access to the internet in order to do that had they not come to my office.

And there were stories about people losing sleep as they were so concerned about how they were going to renew their bus pass because they were so reliant on buses. We are still now having people coming to us telling us that they've tried to make an application on paper and that there were huge delays with that, and some feeling that the paper-based application had gone to the back of the queue. And that was when the online system was crashing continuously at the outset.

Constituents also tell us that they have difficulty in finding face-to-face support in order to make these applications. Many were referred to us by libraries on Anglesey and by the council and so on and so forth. We were more than happy to help our constituents, of course, but we must ask questions as to whether that provision by Transport for Wales was appropriate, and whether the support that they claimed was available to assist people was sufficient.

It is clear that the Welsh Government values the bus pass for older people or they wouldn't offer that free service to them, and we support that, of course. It's very important indeed. So, it didn't make sense, then, to me, to put this barrier in place of the crucial process of renewing these bus passes.

I'll give you another example in my own constituency related to transport: a constituent had gone to a railway station in December to ask for a paper copy of the train timetable, the new timetable, but the only thing that was available for passengers was a sheet advising people that the timetable was changing and that they should go online to see the changes. That's not acceptable.

So, I would like a commitment from the Government that they will look to ensure that traditional options—off-line options, if you like—are available where public services are provided online, and particularly, I hardly need to say, when those services are targeted at groups such as older people or people who have learning difficulties who face similar problems.

The second thing I'm calling for is that Government should put pressure on third parties, the private sector, for example, in order to ensure that customers aren't excluded and that customers aren't disadvantaged if only online services are provided. The most prominent examples are banking services. I'm sure there's no constituency—correct me if I'm wrong—but I'm sure there's no single constituency that hasn't been impacted by bank branch closures. Sixty-three per cent of branches on Anglesey have closed since December 2015, and there are only six left across the whole of the island. You will hear the bank saying, 'Well, don't worry, people can use the branch in the next town', but then they'll close that one too. And in addition to that, you have the situation that we saw with Barclays saying, 'Well, our customers can't withdraw funds from the post office either.' I was very pleased that we had managed to put pressure on them to scrap that particular idea.

But it does demonstrate, doesn't it, the lack of commitment among the major banks to think about their customers, particularly older customers, and specifically, I would say, in rural areas? Yes, I do bank online myself and, yes, I do realise that that strengthens the case for the banks for closure. I am not blind to the change of culture that's happening, the change of habits among the population and the impacts of that. But there are people who simply don't want to bank online. They don't trust online banking because it is too much of a culture shift from what they have been used to. They simply won't change, and they are losing out.

I remember when I visited the Yorkshire Building Society in Llangefni when it was announced that that was to close, and the staff were literally in tears describing the customers who would come in to withdraw money, and it wasn't a single payment in one envelope, but it was, 'Here's your rent money, Mrs Jones, and here’s your money to buy food’, and so on. And that is a personal service that will never be duplicated online, and digital exclusion, that's what that means. It's the growth of online services reducing traditional services and people who don't have access to those online services are excluded and isolated.

Another example in my constituency was with the gas service. A 92-year-old constituent receiving a letter from British Gas asking her to organise a boiler maintenance check, and she was advised to make an appointment online through the app. Now, she was hugely concerned at this point. She was concerned that there was a problem with her boiler and a problem with a boiler can be fatal, but she was worried about that, and she couldn't make an appointment. So, she came to my office and we got in touch with British Gas to make that appointment for her. And their response was:

'Our letters currently no longer provide telephone numbers and do direct customers to our online booking system. However, the telephone numbers for customers to contact us on are always provided on our terms and conditions, which are reviewed approximately every 18 months and sent out to all customers.'

Nid yw ein llythyrau'n darparu rhifau ffôn mwyach ac maent yn cyfeirio cwsmeriaid yn uniongyrchol at ein system archebu ar-lein. Fodd bynnag, mae'r rhifau ffôn i gwsmeriaid gysylltu â ni bob amser yn cael eu darparu ar ein telerau a'n hamodau ni, a adolygir bob tua 18 mis a'u hanfon at bob cwsmer.

Ond mae'n teimlo yn annigonol iawn, rywsut, i fi, i ddisgwyl bod pobl yn cadw gafael ar y terms and conditions pan mai mater bach ydy parhau i roi'r rhifau cyswllt ar yr holl lythyrau. Achos mae'r gwasanaeth hwn yn bodoli.

Felly, dwi'n galw ar y Llywodraeth i drafod efo banciau, busnesau, gwasanaethau a sefydliadau eraill i sicrhau nad ydy pobl yn teimlo eu bod nhw'n cael eu gadael allan ohoni os mai dim ond gwasanaethau ar-lein sy'n cael eu cynnig. Fel dywedais i, dwi'n ddiolchgar iawn fod yna gymaint wedi cefnogi'r cynnig yma ymlaen llaw, ac mae'n brawf, dwi'n meddwl, fod hwn yn fater o bwys. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen i glywed eich cyfraniadau, nifer ohonoch chi, ac wrth gwrs ymateb y Llywodraeth hefyd.

But it feels very inadequate for me to expect people to keep hold of those terms and conditions when it's a small matter to continue to provide those contact numbers on all letters. Because that telephone service does exist.

So, I call on the Government to discuss with banks, businesses and services and other institutions to ensure that people don't feel that they are being excluded if online services are the only services provided. As I said, I'm very grateful that so many Members have supported this motion. It is proof, I think, that this is an important issue. I look forward to hearing your contributions and the Government's response too.

16:20

I am very pleased to support this debate, and I thank Rhun ap Iorwerth for bringing it forward. It is an issue that is very important to many of my constituents, including people who I socialise with. Lots of people are not on their—. Like my wife accusing me of being on my smartphone at all times—in fact, many people haven't got a smartphone.

Looking at it from the viewpoint of an organisation, what is there to not like about providing online services? It saves processing time, it saves staff, it saves on money, it checks all parts of the form are completed, because if you don't complete a part of the form it gives you a little red dot and it won't let you go on to the next part. I'm sure other people have had that problem, which seems to beset me with most online forms I fill in. It checks all parts of the form are completed, but also makes sure that everything is valid. So, you put your date in in the right format and you can cross-match key fields. It provides a faster response to the individual. What is there not to like?

But I think this exemplifies the distance between people and governments and big organisations. And can I just say something that might raise shock horror to a large number of people running large organisations and senior people in a lot of the public sector? Many people do not own a smartphone, an iPad or a computer. Many others, for lots of reasons—some relating to health—are not happy using ICT equipment, even when it has been adapted for a disability. And I know you can get a concept keyboard to put over the top, and I'll tell you what—good luck if you're looking for one. But they're not happy and they like—. There's another group of people who just like talking to people. They like getting on a phone and actually talking to people. That's the second-best means of contacting somebody. The best means of contacting somebody is actually talking to them face-to-face, which used to be a way that you could deal with organisations, which seems to be coming less and less available currently.

And Rhun ap Iorwerth mentioned banks. People used to go into the bank to do all sorts of discussions, and it was part of their social lives as well, which is something—. Again, we talked about isolation yesterday—part of the problem of isolation is that people don't have these community meetings in post offices, banks and other places.

Let's look at the bus pass renewal application. Both my office staff and staff at local libraries have spent a huge amount of time helping people to apply online. I've also spoken to lots of people who've had to ask children, grandchildren or other relatives to help them or do it for them.

Can I give the Welsh Government some credit? Transport for Wales has got a paper-based form as well, and that was available to apply for the new bus pass. It wasn't online only. And can I just say, there's an awful lot of things that I deal with that are online only, or not only online only—'Please use the app.' That's sort of saying that everybody's got it on their phone. The benefits system is almost wholly online. It is wholly online—the information is provided online or applications have to be online. At a very minimum, a paper-based version of every Welsh and Westminster Government form should be available for people if they want it, and a lot of people feel much happier filling in paper-based forms.

Rhun ap Iorwerth started talking about it—can I just also turn to the private sector? There's a financial benefit for us if we deal with utility companies online. They actually give us some money off for having online bills and paying by direct debit and all those things. Of course, we get the benefit, but the reverse is true—there's a financial penalty for not dealing online. That's another one of the many ways where it becomes expensive to be poor, because the people who don't deal online are more likely to be poor than people who have double-fuel, direct debit, online bills, which I'm sure affect most of us in here, but an awful lot of my constituents don't have those things and they're paying a price for that.

Finally, I just think every online process should have a paper-based alternative. Some people will want to do it online—I actually prefer doing things online—but many people would like to use a pen and paper. In fact, anybody who's seen my handwriting would realise exactly why I prefer to do it online, but I think it is important that people have the choice and let's see that everybody can have a paper-based alternative and not pay a financial penalty for doing so.

Rwy'n falch iawn o gefnogi'r ddadl hon, a diolch i Rhun ap Iorwerth am ei chyflwyno. Mae'n fater sy'n bwysig iawn i lawer o fy etholwyr, gan gynnwys pobl rwy'n cymdeithasu â hwy. Mae llawer o bobl nad ydynt ar eu—. Fel fy ngwraig yn fy nghyhuddo o fod ar fy ffôn clyfar drwy'r amser—yn wir, mae yna lawer o bobl nad oes ganddynt ffôn clyfar.

O edrych arno o safbwynt sefydliad, beth sydd o'i le ar ddarparu gwasanaethau ar-lein? Mae'n arbed amser prosesu, mae'n arbed staff, mae'n arbed arian, mae'n gwirio bod pob rhan o'r ffurflen wedi'i llenwi, oherwydd os nad ydych yn llenwi rhan o'r ffurflen mae'n rhoi dot bach coch i chi ac ni fydd yn gadael i chi barhau i'r rhan nesaf. Rwy'n siŵr fod pobl eraill wedi cael y broblem honno, sydd i'w gweld yn fy wynebu gyda'r rhan fwyaf o'r ffurflenni ar-lein rwy'n eu llenwi. Mae'n gwirio bod pob rhan o'r ffurflen wedi'i chwblhau, ond mae hefyd yn sicrhau bod popeth yn ddilys. Felly, rydych yn rhoi eich dyddiad yn y fformat cywir a gallwch groesgyfeirio meysydd allweddol. Mae'n darparu ymateb cyflymach i'r unigolyn. Beth sydd ddim i'w hoffi?

Ond rwy'n credu bod hon yn enghraifft o'r pellter rhwng pobl a llywodraethau a sefydliadau mawr. Ac a gaf fi ddweud rhywbeth a allai godi arswyd ar nifer fawr o bobl sy'n rhedeg sefydliadau mawr ac uwch reolwyr mewn llawer o'r sector cyhoeddus? Mae yna lawer o bobl nad ydynt yn berchen ar ffôn clyfar, iPad na chyfrifiadur. Mae llawer o rai eraill, am lawer o resymau—rhai'n ymwneud ag iechyd—nad ydynt yn hapus i ddefnyddio offer TGCh, hyd yn oed pan fydd wedi'i addasu ar gyfer anabledd. Ac rwy'n gwybod y gallwch gael cyffyrddell i'w roi ar ei ben, ac fe ddywedaf wrthych chi beth—pob lwc os ydych chi'n chwilio am un. Ond nid ydynt yn hapus ac maent yn hoffi—. Mae yna grŵp arall o bobl sy'n hoffi siarad â phobl. Maent yn hoffi mynd ar ffôn a siarad â phobl. Dyna'r ffordd ail orau o gysylltu â rhywun. Y ffordd orau o gysylltu â rhywun mewn gwirionedd yw siarad â hwy wyneb yn wyneb, a arferai fod yn ffordd o ymdrin â sefydliadau sydd ar gael yn fwyfwy anfynych ar hyn o bryd, mae'n ymddangos.

A soniodd Rhun ap Iorwerth am fanciau. Arferai pobl fynd i mewn i'r banc i gael pob math o drafodaethau, ac roedd yn rhan o'u bywydau cymdeithasol hefyd, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth—. Unwaith eto, soniasom am ynysu ddoe—rhan o broblem ynysu yw nad yw pobl yn cael y cyfarfodydd cymunedol hyn mewn swyddfeydd post, banciau a lleoedd eraill.

Gadewch i ni edrych ar y cais i adnewyddu pàs bws. Mae staff fy swyddfa a staff llyfrgelloedd lleol wedi treulio llawer iawn o amser yn helpu pobl i wneud cais ar-lein. Rwyf wedi siarad â llawer o bobl hefyd sydd wedi gorfod gofyn i blant, wyrion neu wyresau neu berthnasau eraill i'w helpu neu i'w wneud ar eu rhan.

A gaf fi roi rhywfaint o glod i Lywodraeth Cymru? Mae gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru ffurflen bapur hefyd, ac roedd honno ar gael ar gyfer gwneud cais am y pàs bws newydd. Nid ar-lein yn unig y gellid dod o hyd iddi. Ac a gaf fi ddweud, mae llawer iawn o bethau rwy'n ymdrin â hwy sydd ond i'w cael ar-lein yn unig, neu nid yn unig ar-lein yn unig—'Defnyddiwch yr ap.' Mewn ffordd, mae hynny'n dweud ei fod gan bawb ar eu ffôn. Mae'r system fudd-daliadau bron yn gyfan gwbl ar-lein. Mae'n gyfan gwbl ar-lein—darperir y wybodaeth ar-lein neu mae'n rhaid i geisiadau fod ar-lein. Fan lleiaf, dylai fersiwn bapur o bob ffurflen Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth San Steffan fod ar gael i bobl os ydynt am ei chael, ac mae llawer o bobl yn teimlo'n llawer hapusach yn llenwi ffurflenni papur.

Dechreuodd Rhun ap Iorwerth siarad amdano—a gaf innau droi hefyd at y sector preifat? Mae budd ariannol i ni os byddwn yn ymdrin â chwmnïau cyfleustodau ar-lein. Maent yn tynnu rhywfaint o arian oddi ar ein biliau am eu cael ar-lein a thalu drwy ddebyd uniongyrchol a'r holl bethau hynny. Wrth gwrs, cawn y budd, ond mae'r gwrthwyneb yn wir—mae cosb ariannol am beidio ag ymdrin â hwy ar-lein. Dyna un arall o'r ffyrdd niferus lle mae'n ddrutach i fod yn dlawd, gan fod y bobl nad ydynt yn ymdrin â chwmnïau ar-lein yn fwy tebygol o fod yn dlawd na phobl sydd â biliau tanwydd dwbl debyd uniongyrchol ar-lein, sef y rhan fwyaf ohonom yma, rwy'n siŵr, ond mae llawer iawn o fy etholwyr heb y pethau hynny ac maent yn talu pris am hynny.

Yn olaf, rwy'n meddwl y dylai fod dewis i gael ffurflen bapur ar gyfer pob proses ar-lein. Bydd rhai pobl am ei wneud ar-lein—mae'n well gennyf fi wneud pethau ar-lein—ond byddai llawer o bobl yn hoffi defnyddio beiro a phapur. Yn wir, byddai unrhyw un sydd wedi gweld fy llawysgrifen yn sylweddoli'n union pam ei bod hi'n well gennyf ei wneud ar-lein, ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig i bobl gael y dewis a gadewch inni sicrhau y gall pawb gael dull papur o'i wneud a pheidio â thalu cosb ariannol am wneud hynny.

16:25

Well, I agree with you completely there, Mike, and with apps in particular—if I haven't got a pair of these with me, then I may as well not have an app at all.

I have to say, it’s almost six years, actually, since I did a short debate on a very similar issue, and at the end of this, I really would like to hear from the Deputy Minister what she thinks has changed, particularly on that first ask from Rhun ap Iorwerth about what our Government can do within its powers to mitigate decisions by some large organisations to stop communicating with customers by post, or, as Mike alluded to, actually charging customers for the privilege of receiving mail.

Receiving your bills, statements and necessary information, basically, via the mail, allowing paper applications for various services rather than using the web—. Of course, this may be a matter of simple preference for some people, but for a surprisingly large number of people it's no choice at all, and for that they should not be penalised. It's the position of the 'Keep Me Posted' campaign—it's a UK-wide campaign—which has been working to highlight this discrimination since August 2013. And, actually, I'd just like to place on record my thanks to them for keeping me updated on this issue.

Since 2013, the number of adults in the UK with no access to the internet has actually fallen from 9 million people to just over 5 million people and, in Wales, apparently, almost 90 per cent of adults now say they have used the internet over the course of the year. Of course, that doesn't mean they have their own computer, but it looks like a surge, doesn't it? Suddenly it looks like we're a virtually, computer savvy nation. I do wonder how much of that survey was done on the internet, because the number of adults in the UK who admit to not having enough knowledge of the internet to use it confidently—a different question—remains at a very stubborn 16 million. So, even though more people are going on the internet, it doesn't mean that they're feeling very safe using it. The fact that that figure has not changed in six years speaks volumes, I think.

The Office for National Statistics says that more older people are using the internet. Perhaps that's because a number of us have moved from one statistical age category to another, taking our youthful skills with us. Yet the number of over-75s who use the internet has hardly changed at all, and, if my own family experience is anything to go by, dementia can quickly rob you of any IT skills you did have, even in its early stages.

Only this week, I spoke to representatives of Lloyds Bank, which is closing its branch in Mumbles in May—yes, one of the many, Rhun. Sixty per cent of their customers are over 55. That's quite a high amount. A lot of them will be eligible for a free bus pass to get to the branch in the city centre, and of course they've got to go online to get those bus passes. So, some of them, yes, have caved in and they've gone for internet banking, but 22 per cent—that's almost a quarter—of all that branch's customers are over 75. So, these are the people who are targeted by scammers. And, of course, banks don't tend to use e-mail for their customers, but you try telling that to a much older person who's either new to online banking or losing their computer savvy. Two per cent of fraud in this country takes place via the post; 70 per cent of it takes place online. So, we're not just talking about a service for those who have no option but to use paper, but we are talking about those who are safe and confident to use online services. I genuinely think that, for some people, trusting the postman is still far preferable to trusting your password.

Even when people have internet access, they may prefer paper—I'm one of them, actually. Between 39 per cent and 42 per cent of people admit that they often forget to check their statements online, find it easier to keep track of their finances if they have stuff in print, and fear missing payments if they rely solely on online information. So, people have higher levels of debt if they conduct their financial affairs solely online.

Due diligence rules mean that people are experiencing difficulties proving their identity. Some financial institutions and even Government departments insist on original statements. Well, sometimes you don't have an original statement. We'll also have problems with a lack of a paper trail if you're exercising a power of attorney or identifying the assets in the estate of a deceased—and I've got personal experience of this. No password? No access. You may not even know these accounts exist.

One final consideration, and this is for small businesses: even if they have good broadband—and you mentioned this, actually, Mike—if they're conducting their financial affairs online, they may still be employing people with support needs, and sometimes that kit still doesn't mean that people feel confident using the internet.

In Canada, just to finish, telecom firms must exempt the over-65s, disabled people and those without a home broadband connection from being denied postal communication. The French can insist upon free paper bills. In Spain, they can receive all their bills through the post at no cost, unless they're specifically requested by e-mail, and no charge is imposed for those who already receive or switch to paper billing.

I appreciate that not all the levers sit here, but the Assembly—I just want to finish with this, Dirprwy Lywydd—is proud of its rights-based laws and the Government has introduced its economic contract with social purpose at its core. So, how about making the preference for paper part of that contract? Thank you.

Wel, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi, Mike, a chydag apiau yn arbennig—os nad oes gennyf bâr o'r rhain gyda mi, waeth i mi beidio â bod ag ap o gwbl.

Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, mae bron i chwe blynedd mewn gwirionedd ers i mi gyflwyno dadl fer ar fater tebyg iawn, ac ar ddiwedd hyn, hoffwn glywed gan y Dirprwy Weinidog beth sydd wedi newid yn ei barn hi, yn enwedig ar gwestiwn cyntaf Rhun ap Iorwerth ynglŷn â'r hyn y gall ein Llywodraeth ei wneud o fewn ei phwerau i liniaru penderfyniadau gan rai sefydliadau mawr i roi'r gorau i gyfathrebu â chwsmeriaid drwy'r post, neu godi tâl ar gwsmeriaid, fel y soniodd Mike, am y fraint o dderbyn eu post.

Mae cael eich biliau, eich datganiadau a gwybodaeth angenrheidiol yn y bôn, drwy'r post, gan ganiatáu ceisiadau papur ar gyfer gwahanol wasanaethau yn hytrach na defnyddio'r we—. Wrth gwrs, gallai fod hyn yn fater syml o ddewis i rai pobl, ond i nifer ryfeddol o fawr o bobl nid yw'n ddewis o gwbl, ac ni ddylid eu cosbi am hynny. Dyna yw safbwynt yr ymgyrch 'Keep Me Posted'—mae'n ymgyrch ledled y DU—sydd wedi bod yn gweithio i dynnu sylw at y gwahaniaethu hwn ers mis Awst 2013. A hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch iddynt am ddal ati i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i mi am y mater.

Ers 2013, mae nifer yr oedolion yn y DU sydd heb fynediad at y rhyngrwyd wedi gostwng o 9 miliwn o bobl i ychydig dros 5 miliwn o bobl ac yng Nghymru, mae'n debyg, mae bron i 90 y cant o oedolion bellach yn dweud eu bod wedi defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd yn ystod y flwyddyn. Wrth gwrs, nid yw hynny'n golygu bod ganddynt eu cyfrifiadur eu hunain, ond mae'n edrych fel ymchwydd, onid yw? Yn sydyn mae'n edrych yn debyg ein bod ni'n genedl sy'n gyfarwydd iawn â defnyddio'r cyfrifiadur. Rwy'n meddwl tybed faint o'r arolwg hwnnw a wnaethpwyd ar y rhyngrwyd, oherwydd mae nifer yr oedolion yn y DU sy'n cyfaddef nad oes ganddynt ddigon o wybodaeth am y rhyngrwyd i'w ddefnyddio'n hyderus—cwestiwn gwahanol—yn dal i fod yn ystyfnig o uchel ar 16 miliwn. Felly, er bod mwy o bobl yn mynd ar y rhyngrwyd, nid yw'n golygu eu bod yn teimlo'n ddiogel iawn yn ei ddefnyddio. Mae'r ffaith nad yw'r ffigur hwnnw wedi newid mewn chwe blynedd yn siarad cyfrolau, rwy'n credu.

Mae'r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn dweud bod mwy o bobl hŷn yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd. Efallai mai'r rheswm am hynny yw bod nifer ohonom wedi symud o un categori oedran ystadegol i'r llall, gan fynd â'n sgiliau ifanc gyda ni. Eto i gyd, nid yw nifer y bobl dros 75 oed sy'n defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd wedi newid fawr ddim o gwbl, ac os yw fy mhrofiad teuluol fy hun yn brawf o unrhyw beth, gall dementia eich amddifadu o unrhyw sgiliau TG a arferai fod gennych, hyd yn oed yn ei gamau cynnar.

Yr wythnos hon, siaradais â chynrychiolwyr Lloyds Bank, sy'n cau eu cangen yn y Mwmbwls ym mis Mai—ie, un o'r llu, Rhun. Mae 60 y cant o'u cwsmeriaid dros 55 oed. Mae'n nifer eithaf uchel. Bydd llawer ohonynt yn gymwys i gael pàs bws am ddim i gyrraedd y gangen yng nghanol y ddinas, ac wrth gwrs mae'n rhaid iddynt fynd ar-lein i gael y pasys bws hynny. Felly, mae rhai ohonynt, do, wedi ildio ac wedi troi at fancio ar y rhyngrwyd, ond mae 22 y cant—sef bron chwarter—o holl gwsmeriaid y gangen honno dros 75 oed. Felly, dyma'r bobl sy'n cael eu targedu gan sgamwyr. Ac wrth gwrs, nid yw banciau'n tueddu i ddefnyddio e-bost ar gyfer eu cwsmeriaid, ond ceisiwch chi ddweud hynny wrth rywun llawer hŷn sydd naill ai'n newydd i fancio ar-lein neu'n colli eu gallu cyfrifiadurol. Mae dau y cant o'r holl dwyll yn y wlad hon yn digwydd drwy'r post; mae 70 y cant ohono'n digwydd ar-lein. Felly, nid sôn yn unig am wasanaeth i'r rhai sydd heb unrhyw ddewis ond defnyddio papur ydym ni, ond am y rhai sy'n ddiogel ac yn hyderus i ddefnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein. Rwy'n credu'n ddiffuant, i rai pobl, fod ymddiried yn y postmon yn dal i fod yn llawer gwell nag ymddiried yn eich cyfrinair.

Hyd yn oed pan fydd gan bobl fynediad at y rhyngrwyd, efallai y bydd yn well ganddynt bapur—rwy'n un ohonynt mewn gwirionedd. Mae rhwng 39 y cant a 42 y cant o bobl yn cyfaddef eu bod yn aml yn anghofio gwirio eu datganiadau ar-lein, yn ei chael hi'n haws cadw golwg ar eu sefyllfa ariannol os oes ganddynt bethau wedi'u hargraffu, ac yn ofni colli taliadau os ydynt yn dibynnu ar wybodaeth ar-lein yn unig. Felly, mae gan bobl lefelau uwch o ddyled os ydynt yn cyflawni eu materion ariannol ar-lein yn unig.

Mae rheolau diwydrwydd dyladwy yn golygu bod pobl yn cael anawsterau wrth geisio profi pwy ydynt. Mae rhai sefydliadau ariannol a hyd yn oed adrannau'r Llywodraeth yn mynnu cael datganiadau gwreiddiol. Wel, weithiau ni fydd gennych ddatganiad gwreiddiol. Byddwn hefyd yn cael problemau gyda diffyg llwybr papur os ydych yn arfer atwrneiaeth neu'n nodi'r asedau yn ystâd rhywun ymadawedig—ac mae gennyf brofiad personol o hyn. Dim cyfrinair? Dim mynediad. Efallai nad ydych yn gwybod bod y cyfrifon hyn yn bodoli hyd yn oed.

Un ystyriaeth derfynol, ac mae hyn ar gyfer busnesau bach: hyd yn oed os oes ganddynt fand eang da—ac fe sonioch chi am hyn mewn gwirionedd Mike—os ydynt yn cyflawni eu materion ariannol ar-lein, efallai y byddant yn dal i gyflogi pobl ag anghenion cymorth, ac weithiau, nid yw'r pecyn hwnnw'n golygu bod pobl yn teimlo'n hyderus yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd.

Yng Nghanada, i orffen, rhaid i gwmnïau telathrebu eithrio rhai dros 65 oed, pobl anabl a rhai sydd heb gysylltiad band eang yn y cartref rhag cael eu hamddifadu o gyfathrebiadau drwy'r post. Gall y Ffrancwyr fynnu biliau papur am ddim. Yn Sbaen, gallant gael eu holl filiau drwy'r post am ddim, oni bai eu bod wedi cael cais penodol drwy e-bost, ac ni chodir tâl ar y rhai sydd eisoes yn derbyn neu'n newid i filiau papur.

Rwy'n sylweddoli nad yw'r holl ddulliau yn ein dwylo ni yma, ond mae'r Cynulliad—rwyf am orffen gyda hyn, Ddirprwy Lywydd—yn falch o'i ddeddfau seiliedig ar hawliau ac mae'r Llywodraeth wedi cyflwyno'i chontract economaidd gyda diben cymdeithasol yn ganolog iddo. Felly, beth am sicrhau bod dewis papur yn rhan o'r contract hwnnw? Diolch.

16:30

Perhaps I should start by acknowledging the huge amount of work the Welsh Government has done to ensure almost all of us in Wales can access internet facilities and to assure the Minister this is not in any way a condemnation of your efforts in this area.

For all of us, the changing world of communications has altered our lifestyles forever. For most of us, it has been a real and positive change. We can communicate quickly, whether by voice, text or social media, and it's become the norm to walk into a room and to see each and every person staring at a digital screen.

The world of commerce has been quick to exploit these innovations, often to the detriment of all of us. Such manifestations as the closing of the once-familiar high-street banks, and the huge growth of online shopping, leading to the loss of high-street shops and stores, all contribute to the changing tenor and panorama of our high streets. But, for some, often the most vulnerable in our society, this exponential growth in online services has a much greater effect on their lives. Far from giving greater access, it often means limited access or even no access at all.

The impact of this access negativity is most felt in the need to contact relevant authorities or businesses. This necessity for access could be for such essential things as benefits, tax queries, energy facilities—even access to doctors' surgeries and job applications. Local authority and schools notifications are increasingly using digital communications. Schools are also using the internet to facilitate homework, et cetera. This affects those children from poorer families, where digital devices may have to be shared or, worse still, are not available at all.

So, digital isolation is when people find themselves in a position where they can't access the internet or digital media and devices as easily as other people, or even not at all. There are many factors that can affect this inability to connect. It could be that they cannot afford the necessary devices, such as computers, laptops, even smartphones, and, crucially, it can also be a lack of understanding as to how to operate such devices.

Over a third of the people in Wales aged 50 or over do not use online services at all. As mentioned by Mike Hedges, people who do not use digital technology, especially the elderly, are increasingly missing out on benefits and financial savings as a result of their continued use of traditional methods of banking and commerce. Research suggests that older people are paying a high price for not participating in digital services. It has been calculated that offline households miss out on savings of up to £560 a year by not shopping and paying bills online.

We now find that a number of companies are phasing out letters, telephone numbers and even occupation of physical buildings, moving exclusively to digital-only services and customer interaction. These sorts of developments are increasing the isolation of those we think of as vulnerable, especially the elderly, who are used to, and prefer, face-to-face communication, where empathy and understanding are more likely to be evident.

This digital isolation is an issue that homelessness charities are seeing become more widespread, as more and more lifeline services move online. It is true that attempts are being made by authorities to address some of the exclusion. Some temporary accommodation hostels have ICT suites in them, but, with many using these hostels having a lack of understanding in the use of the equipment, it still leaves them in a state of digital isolation. Clearly, there is a training issue that needs to be addressed, perhaps not just in hostels but in the vulnerable population as a whole. The closure of many of our libraries, once the pillars of our education and learning, does not help in this lack of digital training.

Can I finish by saying that this debate today is an extremely important one, in that it addresses a growing problem and one that affects a significant portion of the Welsh population? Can I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing this debate to the Chamber today? It is one that I and my colleagues are happy to support.  

Efallai y dylwn ddechrau drwy gydnabod y gwaith aruthrol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud i sicrhau bod bron pob un ohonom yng Nghymru yn gallu cael mynediad at gyfleusterau rhyngrwyd ac i sicrhau'r Gweinidog nad yw hyn mewn unrhyw fodd yn gondemniad o'ch ymdrechion yn y maes.

I bob un ohonom, mae'r newid ym myd cyfathrebu wedi newid ein ffordd o fyw am byth. I'r rhan fwyaf ohonom, mae wedi bod yn newid real a chadarnhaol. Gallwn gyfathrebu'n gyflym, boed drwy lais, testun neu gyfryngau cymdeithasol, a'r norm bellach yw cerdded i mewn i ystafell a gweld pawb yn syllu ar sgrin ddigidol.

Mae byd masnach wedi mynd ati'n gyflym i ymelwa ar y datblygiadau arloesol hyn, a hynny'n aml ar draul pob un ohonom. Mae pethau fel cau banciau'r stryd fawr a oedd unwaith mor gyfarwydd, a thwf enfawr siopa ar-lein, gan arwain at golli siopau ar y stryd fawr, i gyd yn cyfrannu at newid cywair a phanorama ein strydoedd mawr. Ond i rai, yn aml y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas, mae'r twf cynyddol hwn mewn gwasanaethau ar-lein yn effeithio llawer mwy ar eu bywydau. Yn bell o gynnig mwy o fynediad, mae'n aml yn golygu mynediad cyfyngedig neu ddim mynediad o gwbl hyd yn oed.

Mae effaith y diffyg mynediad hwn i'w theimlo fwyaf yn yr angen i gysylltu ag awdurdodau neu fusnesau perthnasol. Gallai'r rheidrwydd i gael mynediad fod ar gyfer pethau mor hanfodol â budd-daliadau, ymholiadau treth, cyfleustodau ynni—hyd yn oed mynediad at feddygfeydd a cheisiadau am swyddi. Gwneir defnydd cynyddol o gyfathrebu digidol ar gyfer hysbysiadau awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion. Mae ysgolion hefyd yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd i hwyluso gwaith cartref, ac ati. Mae hyn yn effeithio ar blant o deuluoedd tlotach, lle mae'n bosibl y bydd rhaid rhannu dyfeisiau digidol neu'n waeth byth, nad ydynt ar gael o gwbl.

Felly, ynysu digidol yw pan fydd pobl mewn sefyllfa lle na allant gael mynediad at y rhyngrwyd neu gyfryngau digidol a dyfeisiau mor hawdd â phobl eraill, neu ddim o gwbl hyd yn oed. Ceir llawer o ffactorau a all effeithio ar yr anallu hwn i gysylltu. Efallai na allant fforddio'r dyfeisiau angenrheidiol, megis cyfrifiaduron, gliniaduron, ffonau clyfar hyd yn oed, ac yn hollbwysig, gall hefyd fod yn ddiffyg dealltwriaeth ynglŷn â sut i ddefnyddio dyfeisiau o'r fath.

Nid yw dros draean o'r bobl yng Nghymru sy'n 50 oed neu'n hŷn yn defnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein o gwbl. Fel y crybwyllwyd gan Mike Hedges, mae pobl nad ydynt yn defnyddio technoleg ddigidol, yn enwedig yr henoed, yn colli cyfle yn gynyddol i gael budd-daliadau ac arbedion ariannol o ganlyniad i'r ffaith eu bod yn parhau i ddefnyddio dulliau traddodiadol o fancio a masnachu. Mae ymchwil yn awgrymu bod pobl hŷn yn talu pris uchel am beidio â defnyddio gwasanaethau digidol. Cyfrifwyd bod aelwydydd all-lein yn colli hyd at £560 y flwyddyn o arbedion drwy beidio â siopa a thalu biliau ar-lein.

Gwelwn yn awr fod nifer o gwmnïau'n cael gwared yn raddol ar lythyrau, rhifau ffôn a hyd yn oed yn rhoi'r gorau i bresenoldeb mewn adeiladau ffisegol, gan symud yn gyfan gwbl at wasanaethau a rhyngweithio â chwsmeriaid yn ddigidol yn unig. Mae'r mathau hyn o ddatblygiadau yn ynysu'r rhai yr ystyriwn eu bod yn agored i niwed, yn enwedig yr henoed, sy'n gyfarwydd â chyfathrebu wyneb yn wyneb, ac sy'n well ganddynt gyfathrebu felly, lle mae empathi a dealltwriaeth yn fwy tebygol o fod yn amlwg.

Mae ynysu digidol o'r fath yn broblem y mae elusennau digartrefedd yn ei gweld yn dod yn fwy cyffredin wrth i fwy a mwy o wasanaethau hanfodol symud ar-lein. Mae'n wir fod awdurdodau'n ymdrechu i fynd i'r afael â rhywfaint o'r ynysu. Mae gan rai hosteli llety dros dro ystafelloedd TGCh ynddynt, ond gyda llawer o'r rhai sy'n defnyddio'r hosteli hyn heb ddigon o ddealltwriaeth sut i ddefnyddio'r offer, mae'n dal i'w gadael wedi'u hynysu'n ddigidol. Yn amlwg, ceir problem hyfforddi sy'n galw am sylw, nid yn unig mewn hosteli o bosibl ond yn y boblogaeth agored i niwed yn gyffredinol. Nid yw cau llawer o'n llyfrgelloedd, a fu gynt yn bileri i'n haddysg a'n dysg, yn helpu i unioni'r diffyg hyfforddiant digidol hwn.

A gaf fi orffen drwy ddweud bod y ddadl hon heddiw yn un eithriadol o bwysig, gan ei bod yn mynd i'r afael â phroblem gynyddol ac un sy'n effeithio ar gyfran sylweddol o boblogaeth Cymru? A gaf fi ddiolch i Blaid Cymru am ddod â'r ddadl hon gerbron y Siambr heddiw? Mae'n un rwyf i a fy nghyd-Aelodau'n hapus i'w chefnogi.    

16:35

As the older people’s commissioner noted in her 'State of the Nation' report:

'The increasing use of digital technology means that the way we access services and information, and the way we communicate, has changed significantly in recent years.'

However, not everyone has access to the internet. Superfast availability is 77 per cent in rural areas. Around 87 per cent of businesses in Wales have access to superfast broadband, and yet only 93 per cent of all premises in Wales can access superfast broadband, compared to a UK average of 95 per cent. Ofcom estimates that the number of premises currently without access to superfast broadband in Wales is around 156,000. Bearing that figure in mind and the fact that BT Openreach are only planning to provide 26,000 premises with access to fast, reliable broadband by March 2021, it is clear that many, including my constituents in the Crafnant valley, will continue to be bogged down by lack of access to reliable internet. Equally problematic is the fact that internet usage remains very low amongst our older generations. A third of older people do not make personal use of the internet. The figure is even higher for those aged over 75—that's 60 per cent. 

I acknowledge that the Welsh Government has taken steps to try and address the problem of digital inclusion. For example, the digital inclusion strategic framework and delivery plan of March 2016 set out a goal for reducing digital exclusion for adults aged 16 and over, so that more people could benefit from being online and using digital technologies. However, according to the digital inclusion progress report and forward look 2018, only 77 per cent of social housing residents have internet access, just 51 per cent of single pensioner households are likely to have internet access, and 25 per cent of disabled people are digitally excluded.

I am pleased that the report highlights the need to work with all sectors to tackle digital exclusion. It does recognise that telecommunications companies such as EE, Three, O2, BT and Virgin, and utility companies such as British Gas, Welsh Water, and E.ON, financial services such as Natwest, Lloyds, Principality, Santander and Barclays, and insurance companies such as Aviva, Admiral and Endsleigh—there's a bit of a namecheck going on there—are increasingly looking to customers to manage their accounts online. A promise, however, was made to encourage the private sector to try and lead by example and to consider their digitally-excluded customers. So, I would appreciate an update on what progress has been made through ministerial and deputy ministerial interventions on this issue to date.

I believe that the aim should be amended so to include the need to discuss with banks, businesses and other organisations the need to ensure that alternatives to online services are offered. In fact, this could be supported by adding it as a seventh pledge to the digital inclusion charter. None of us can ignore the fact that alternatives to online services are needed. The older people's commissioner found that offline households miss out on savings of up to £560 a year from shopping and paying bills online. That being the case, being offline is costing our constituents a fortune. According to the national survey for Wales, only 79 per cent of people buy goods or services online. We must act to ensure that services remain as affordable and accessible offline too.

Our colleague Rhun ap Iorwerth has highlighted the example of the bus pass renewal system. I would like to add to the list by including blue badge application forms. I have had many constituents unable to even access these without going online or using a computer, and they come into my office for us to help, but they should have that facility to be able to have that blue badge without having to go to those extremes. 

Undoubtedly, we need to help more people get online and do more to boost superfast availability. But we want a fair Wales too, so I strongly support this motion today and thank Rhun for starting this off in the first place. And I implore the Welsh Government to take steps such as have been suggested here today to ensure that, whilst keeping up with the digital age of technology, we will always ensure that traditional ways of accessing information, advice, support and services remain in place. Thanks. 

Fel y nododd y comisiynydd pobl hŷn yn ei hadroddiad 'Cyflwr y Genedl':

'Mae’r defnydd cynyddol a wneir o dechnoleg ddigidol yn golygu bod y ffordd yr ydym yn manteisio ar wasanaethau a gwybodaeth, a’r ffordd yr ydym yn cyfathrebu, wedi newid yn sylweddol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf.'

Fodd bynnag, nid oes gan bawb fynediad at y rhyngrwyd. Mae argaeledd band eang cyflym iawn yn 77 y cant mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae gan tua 87 y cant o fusnesau yng Nghymru fynediad at fand eang cyflym iawn, ac eto dim ond 93 y cant o'r holl safleoedd yng Nghymru sy'n gallu cael mynediad at fand eang cyflym iawn o'i gymharu â chyfartaledd y DU o 95 y cant. Mae Ofcom yn amcangyfrif mai tua 156,000 yw nifer y safleoedd sydd heb fynediad at fand eang cyflym iawn yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. O gofio'r ffigur hwnnw a'r ffaith nad yw BT Openreach ond yn bwriadu darparu mynediad at fand eang cyflym a dibynadwy i 26,000 o adeiladau erbyn mis Mawrth 2021, mae'n amlwg y bydd llawer, gan gynnwys fy etholwyr yng nghwm Crafnant, yn dal i gael eu llethu gan ddiffyg mynediad at ryngrwyd dibynadwy. Yr un mor broblemus yw'r ffaith bod y defnydd o'r rhyngrwyd yn parhau i fod yn isel iawn ymysg ein cenedlaethau hŷn. Nid yw traean o bobl hŷn yn gwneud defnydd personol o'r rhyngrwyd. Mae'r ffigur hyd yn oed yn uwch ar gyfer pobl dros 75 oed—sef 60 y cant.  

Rwy'n cydnabod bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi camau ar waith i geisio mynd i'r afael â phroblem cynhwysiant digidol. Er enghraifft, pennwyd nod yn y fframwaith strategol a'r cynllun cyflenwi ar gyfer cynhwysiant digidol ym mis Mawrth 2016 i leihau allgáu digidol ymysg oedolion 16 oed a hŷn, er mwyn i fwy o bobl elwa o fod ar-lein a defnyddio technolegau digidol. Fodd bynnag, yn ôl yr adroddiad cynnydd a rhagolwg 2018 ar gynhwysiant digidol, dim ond 77 y cant o breswylwyr tai cymdeithasol sydd â mynediad at y rhyngrwyd, dim ond 51 y cant o aelwydydd pensiynwyr sengl sy'n debygol o fod â mynediad at y rhyngrwyd, ac mae 25 y cant o bobl anabl wedi'u hallgáu'n ddigidol.

Rwy'n falch fod yr adroddiad yn tynnu sylw at yr angen i weithio gyda phob sector i fynd i'r afael ag allgáu digidol. Mae'n cydnabod bod cwmnïau telathrebu megis EE, Three, O2, BT a Virgin, a chwmnïau cyfleustodau megis Nwy Prydain, Dŵr Cymru, ac E.ON, gwasanaethau ariannol fel NatWest, Lloyds, Principality, Santander a Barclays, a chwmnïau yswiriant megis Aviva, Admiral ac Endsleigh—i mi gael eu henwi—yn gynyddol yn ceisio cael eu cwsmeriaid i reoli eu cyfrifon ar-lein. Gwnaethpwyd addewid, fodd bynnag, i annog y sector preifat i geisio arwain drwy esiampl ac i ystyried eu cwsmeriaid sydd wedi'u hallgáu'n ddigidol. Felly, buaswn yn gwerthfawrogi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynglŷn â pha gynnydd a wnaethpwyd drwy ymyriadau Gweinidogion a Dirprwy Weinidogion ar y mater hyd yma.

Credaf y dylid diwygio'r nod er mwyn cynnwys y gofyniad i drafod gyda banciau, busnesau a sefydliadau eraill yr angen i sicrhau bod dewisiadau amgen yn lle gwasanaethau ar-lein yn cael eu cynnig. Yn wir, gellid cefnogi hyn drwy ei ychwanegu fel seithfed adduned i'r siarter cynhwysiant digidol. Ni all yr un ohonom anwybyddu'r ffaith bod angen dewisiadau amgen yn lle gwasanaethau ar-lein. Canfu'r comisiynydd pobl hŷn fod cartrefi all-lein yn colli arbedion o hyd at £560 y flwyddyn drwy siopa a thalu biliau ar-lein. Felly, mae bod all-lein yn costio ffortiwn i'n hetholwyr. Yn ôl arolwg cenedlaethol Cymru, dim ond 79 y cant o bobl sy'n prynu nwyddau neu wasanaethau ar-lein. Mae'n rhaid i ni weithredu i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau'n parhau i fod mor fforddiadwy a hygyrch all-lein hefyd.

Mae ein cyd-Aelod, Rhun ap Iorwerth, wedi tynnu sylw at enghraifft y system adnewyddu pasys bws. Hoffwn ychwanegu at y rhestr drwy gynnwys ffurflenni cais am y bathodyn glas. Rwyf wedi cael llawer o etholwyr na allant hyd yn oed ddod o hyd i'r rhain heb fynd ar-lein neu ddefnyddio cyfrifiadur, ac maent yn dod i fy swyddfa er mwyn inni helpu, ond dylent allu cael y bathodyn glas heb orfod mynd i'r eithafion hynny.  

Yn ddiamau, mae angen inni helpu mwy o bobl i fynd ar-lein a gwneud mwy i hybu argaeledd band eang cyflym iawn. Ond rydym am gael Cymru deg hefyd, felly rwy'n cefnogi'r cynnig hwn yn gryf heddiw a hoffwn ddiolch i Rhun am roi cychwyn arno yn y lle cyntaf. Ac erfyniaf ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gymryd camau fel yr awgrymwyd yma heddiw i sicrhau, wrth inni ddal i fyny ag oes ddigidol technoleg, y byddwn bob amser yn sicrhau bod ffyrdd traddodiadol o gael gafael ar wybodaeth, cyngor, cymorth a gwasanaethau yn parhau ar waith. Diolch.  

16:40

Thank you. Can I now call the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan? 

Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Julie Morgan?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I welcome the opportunity provided by today's very important debate to highlight how the Welsh Government is working across departments to try to ensure everyone can access the support they need, regardless of whether they use the internet. We recognise that more services, as Rhun said in introducing the debate, including vital public services, are moving online and that digitally excluded people are at risk of being left behind in society. As Mike Hedges said, not everyone has a smartphone and, of course, as has also been said, some people do like talking to people. People who do not use digital technology can miss out on vital services, job opportunities and improvements to their health. To be a fair Wales, as Janet Finch-Saunders said in her speech, we must ensure equality of access to public services for all. 

Older people do account for the largest demographic of people who are not online. However, there are other groups in society as well who've also been mentioned here today: disabled people were mentioned; David Rowlands mentioned homeless people. But, certainly, older people are the largest group. Twenty-two per cent of those aged over 50 and—a figure that's already been used—51 per cent of those aged over 75 are digitally excluded.

Following Cabinet's agreement last week, we will be launching a public consultation on our strategy for an ageing society in early spring. I think that many of the issues and many of the proposals that have come up in this debate today could be taken forward by that strategy for an ageing society. This strategy is Welsh Government's response to the wider implications of demographic change for future generations in Wales, but also for today's oldest people. The success of this strategy will rely on cross-Governmental action on a range of pressing issues, which will of course include digital inclusion.

Our vision is an age-friendly Wales that supports people of all ages to live and age well; a Wales where individuals can take responsibility for their own health and well-being, while feeling confident that support will be available and easily accessible if needed. We're already taking steps to achieve this vision. For example, the Welsh Government has made £8 million of grant funding available to the single advice fund this year. Funded services will reach deep into communities to engage with households that tend not to use traditional advice services. The services will also be delivered from venues at the heart of local communities, such as GP practices, so people will be able, through that money for advice services, to have face-to-face advice.

I'm very pleased that today's motion mentions the work of Transport for Wales to offer alternatives to online services for people renewing their bus passes. Although applicants are encouraged to use the online portal, as it is easier and faster, as many people have said here today, paper applications, as I think Mike Hedges said, are also available, and face-to-face support is also available. It's been reported that over 25,000 paper applications have been received. However, I am aware that many people did believe that they had to do it only online, and I certainly had a lot of people coming to my advice surgeries where we, as well as many others in this room, did help them to fill in the online applications. [Interruption.]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle yn y ddadl bwysig hon heddiw i dynnu sylw at sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio ar draws adrannau i geisio sicrhau y gall pawb gael mynediad at y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt, p'un a ydynt yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd ai peidio. Cydnabyddwn fod mwy o wasanaethau, fel y dywedodd Rhun wrth gyflwyno'r ddadl, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol, yn symud ar-lein a bod pobl sydd wedi'u hallgáu'n ddigidol mewn perygl o gael eu gadael ar ôl mewn cymdeithas. Fel y dywedodd Mike Hedges, nid oes gan bawb ffôn clyfar ac wrth gwrs, fel y dywedwyd hefyd, mae rhai pobl yn hoffi siarad â phobl. Gall pobl nad ydynt yn defnyddio technoleg ddigidol fethu cael gwasanaethau hanfodol, cyfleoedd swyddi a gwelliannau i'w hiechyd. Er mwyn bod yn Gymru deg, fel y dywedodd Janet Finch-Saunders yn ei haraith, rhaid inni sicrhau mynediad cyfartal at wasanaethau cyhoeddus i bawb.  

Pobl hŷn yw'r ddemograffeg fwyaf o bobl nad ydynt ar-lein. Fodd bynnag, mae grwpiau eraill mewn cymdeithas wedi cael eu crybwyll yma heddiw hefyd: soniwyd am bobl anabl; soniodd David Rowlands am bobl ddigartref. Ond yn sicr, pobl hŷn yw'r grŵp mwyaf. Mae 22 y cant o'r rhai dros 50 oed a—ffigur sydd eisoes wedi'i ddefnyddio—51 y cant o'r rhai sydd dros 75 oed wedi'u hallgáu'n ddigidol.

Yn dilyn cytundeb y Cabinet yr wythnos diwethaf, byddwn yn lansio ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar ein strategaeth ar gyfer cymdeithas sy'n heneiddio ddechrau'r gwanwyn. Rwy'n meddwl y gallai'r strategaeth honno ar gyfer cymdeithas sy'n heneiddio ddatblygu llawer o'r materion a llawer o'r argymhellion sydd wedi codi yn y ddadl hon heddiw. Y strategaeth hon yw ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i oblygiadau ehangach newid demograffig i genedlaethau'r dyfodol yng Nghymru, ond hefyd i'r bobl hynaf heddiw. Bydd llwyddiant y strategaeth hon yn dibynnu ar weithredu trawslywodraethol ar ystod o faterion pwysig, a fydd yn cynnwys cynhwysiant digidol wrth gwrs.

Ein gweledigaeth yw Cymru sy'n ystyriol o oedran ac sy'n helpu pobl o bob oed i fyw a heneiddio'n dda; Cymru lle gall unigolion fod yn gyfrifol am eu hiechyd a'u lles eu hunain, gan deimlo'n hyderus ar yr un pryd y bydd cymorth ar gael ac yn hawdd dod o hyd iddo os oes angen. Rydym eisoes yn rhoi camau ar waith i gyflawni'r weledigaeth hon. Er enghraifft, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhyddhau £8 miliwn o gyllid grant i'r gronfa gynghori sengl eleni. Bydd gwasanaethau a ariennir yn estyn yn ddwfn i mewn i gymunedau i ymgysylltu ag aelwydydd sy'n tueddu i beidio â defnyddio gwasanaethau cynghori traddodiadol. Darperir y gwasanaethau hefyd o leoliadau sy'n ganolog i gymunedau lleol, megis meddygfeydd, fel y gall pobl gael cyngor wyneb yn wyneb drwy'r arian hwnnw ar gyfer gwasanaethau cynghori.

Rwy'n falch iawn fod y cynnig heddiw yn sôn am waith Trafnidiaeth Cymru i gynnig dewisiadau amgen yn lle gwasanaethau ar-lein i bobl sy'n adnewyddu eu pasys bws. Er bod y rhai sy'n gwneud cais yn cael eu hannog i ddefnyddio'r porth ar-lein am ei fod yn haws ac yn gyflymach, fel y mae llawer o bobl wedi dweud yma heddiw, mae'n bosibl gwneud ceisiadau ar bapur hefyd, fel y dywedodd Mike Hedges, rwy'n credu, ac mae cymorth wyneb yn wyneb ar gael. Adroddwyd bod dros 25,000 o geisiadau papur wedi dod i law. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n ymwybodol fod llawer o bobl wedi meddwl bod yn rhaid iddynt ei wneud ar-lein yn unig, ac yn sicr daeth llawer o bobl i fy nghymorthfeydd cyngor lle gwnaethom ni, yn ogystal â llawer o rai eraill yn yr ystafell hon, eu helpu i lenwi'r ceisiadau ar-lein. [Torri ar draws.]

16:45

Thank you for taking the intervention. Thank you very much. Isn't the fact that you're reminding us again that doing it on paper is slower and more problematic again symptomatic of the message that's going out to people? Rather than telling people, 'Listen, we believe online works very well, but please feel free to use paper if you feel more comfortable in doing so.'

Diolch i chi am dderbyn yr ymyriad. Diolch yn fawr iawn. Onid yw'r ffaith eich bod yn ein hatgoffa eto fod ei wneud ar bapur yn arafach ac yn fwy problemus eto yn arwydd o'r neges sy'n mynd allan at bobl? Yn hytrach na dweud wrth bobl, 'Gwrandewch, rydym yn credu bod ar-lein yn gweithio'n dda iawn, ond mae croeso i chi ddefnyddio papur os ydych chi'n teimlo'n fwy cyfforddus yn gwneud hynny.'

Yes, I think that is the message that should go, and is going out, really: that paper applications are available.

The other thing, of course, with all this—I think we've discussed the bus pass quite a bit—is that it has illustrated how popular the bus pass is and how important it is to older people. I know this issue of the bus pass applications has caused anxiety, and we certainly don't want that to be the case. Last year, we allocated £20,000 of additional funding to the older people's commissioner to support her work to increase pension credit take-up. This was actually done via paper. The commissioner produced a flyer that was sent out to older people in letters reminding them to renew their bus pass. I think it's very important that we take opportunities like that.

I'd like to share another example of how we've reached people who don't use the internet. Welsh Government recently launched a national awareness campaign to improve take-up of vital information and support about council tax entitlements. We work collaboratively with local authorities, the third sector, and MoneySavingExpert.com, the UK's biggest consumer website, to develop simple and consistent advice. We also placed posters in relevant settings, disseminated hard-copy leaflets to local authorities, and included printed slips with debt advice in council tax reminders, final notices and summonses. These models have been successful in reaching people who do not use the internet, and going forward we will learn from these successes.

However, it's very important to note—and I think the points have been made well here today—that there are many barriers to accessing online services, particularly for those on low incomes, older and disabled people. Barriers can include a lack of skills, confidence, access and mobility. I've also spoken with older people who are worried that they will be targeted by online scammers, and I know Suzy mentioned in her contribution about fraud online, and people do trust the postman more than the password, and I think that is a very important point. She also raised the issue of what they're doing in Canada and France, and I think it would be very beneficial for us to have a good look at what is actually happening in other countries on this issue. So, I think that again is something that the strategy for an ageing society could take on board. 

But although we recognise that not everyone is comfortable with the internet, we want to support people to make informed choices about how they participate safely in a world that is increasingly digital. So, we do want to encourage people to use the internet, because we know that the advantages are there, but we must provide for those people who don't want to use the internet or are not able to use the internet. So, we are taking efforts to encourage the use of the internet: Digital Communities Wales's digital heroes initiative has trained over 5,000 young volunteers to help older people in hospitals and care homes get online, and another innovative project is the Vale tablet loan scheme, which is allowing residents across the Vale of Glamorgan to borrow internet-enabled but secure iPads from local libraries almost as easily as they would a book.

For some, being digitally excluded is not a choice but a result of poor broadband coverage, which has also been mentioned here today. We want to make sure that everyone who wants to access the internet can do so. To date, Superfast Cymru has provided more than 733,000 premises across Wales with access to fast fibre broadband. We've also invested more than £200 million to step in when the market has failed to connect 95 per cent of properties in Wales, including many situated in rural areas.

I think the key principle of all this is that we should design public services around the needs of the end user, and typically this will mean a service that works digitally but also meets the needs of end users who are digitally excluded, and that is what the Welsh Government wants to do.

I'd like to end by addressing the proposal that Welsh Government talks to banks, businesses and other organisations to make sure that customers are not isolated if only online services are offered. I want to raise attention to our support for credit unions, which does enable some citizens in Wales to have access to affordable loans and savings, despite the withdrawal of large banks from Welsh high streets. Credit unions do ensure that people are able to discuss their requirements face to face and access products best suited to their needs.

It's also pleasing just to note—I can see that my time is going—that last year, the number of rural post offices in Wales increased from 619 to 636. Of course, local post offices can't replace banks, but they can offer their customers basic face-to-face banking services. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. 

Ie, rwy'n credu mai dyna'r neges a ddylai fynd, ac sy'n mynd allan mewn gwirionedd: fod modd gwneud ceisiadau ar bapur.

Y peth arall gyda hyn i gyd wrth gwrs—rwy'n credu ein bod wedi trafod cryn dipyn ar y pàs bws—yw ei fod wedi dangos pa mor boblogaidd yw'r pàs bws a pha mor bwysig ydyw i bobl hŷn. Gwn fod ceisiadau'r pàs bws wedi achosi pryder, ac yn sicr nid ydym am i hynny ddigwydd. Y llynedd, dyrannwyd £20,000 o arian ychwanegol i'r comisiynydd pobl hŷn i gefnogi ei gwaith i gynyddu'r nifer sy'n manteisio ar gredydau pensiwn. Gwnaed hyn drwy gyfrwng papur mewn gwirionedd. Cynhyrchodd y comisiynydd daflen a anfonwyd at bobl hŷn mewn llythyrau yn eu hatgoffa i adnewyddu eu pàs bws. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn achub ar gyfleoedd fel hynny.

Hoffwn rannu enghraifft arall o sut rydym wedi cyrraedd pobl nad ydynt yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd. Yn ddiweddar, lansiodd Llywodraeth Cymru ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth genedlaethol i gynyddu'r defnydd o wybodaeth a chymorth hanfodol am hawliau mewn perthynas â'r dreth gyngor. Rydym yn gweithio ar y cyd ag awdurdodau lleol, y trydydd sector, a MoneySavingExpert.com, gwefan defnyddwyr fwyaf y DU, i ddatblygu cyngor syml a chyson. Gosodwyd posteri mewn lleoliadau perthnasol, dosbarthwyd taflenni copi caled i awdurdodau lleol, a chafodd slipiau printiedig eu cynnwys gyda chyngor ar ddyledion yn llythyrau atgoffa'r dreth gyngor, hysbysiadau terfynol a gwysion. Mae'r modelau hyn wedi llwyddo i gyrraedd pobl nad ydynt yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd, ac wrth symud ymlaen byddwn yn dysgu o'r llwyddiannau hyn.

Fodd bynnag, mae'n bwysig iawn nodi—ac rwy'n credu bod y pwyntiau wedi cael eu gwneud yn dda yma heddiw—fod llawer o rwystrau i ddefnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein, yn enwedig i'r rheini ar incwm isel, pobl hŷn a phobl anabl. Gall rhwystrau gynnwys diffyg sgiliau, hyder, mynediad a symudedd. Rwyf hefyd wedi siarad â phobl hŷn sy'n poeni y byddant yn cael eu targedu gan sgamwyr ar-lein, ac rwy'n gwybod bod Suzy wedi sôn yn ei chyfraniad am dwyll ar-lein, a bod pobl yn ymddiried yn y postmon yn fwy na'r cyfrinair, ac rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n bwynt pwysig iawn. Soniodd hefyd am yr hyn y maent yn ei wneud yng Nghanada a Ffrainc, a chredaf y byddai'n fuddiol iawn inni edrych yn drylwyr ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd mewn gwledydd eraill ar y mater hwn. Felly, credaf fod hynny eto'n rhywbeth y gallai'r strategaeth ar gyfer cymdeithas sy'n heneiddio ei ystyried.  

Ond er ein bod yn cydnabod nad yw pawb yn gyfforddus gyda'r rhyngrwyd, rydym eisiau cefnogi pobl i wneud dewisiadau gwybodus ynglŷn â sut i gymryd rhan yn ddiogel mewn byd sy'n gynyddol ddigidol. Felly, rydym am annog pobl i ddefnyddio'r rhyngrwyd, oherwydd gwyddom fod manteision i wneud hynny, ond rhaid inni ddarparu ar gyfer pobl nad ydynt am ddefnyddio'r rhyngrwyd neu nad ydynt yn gallu defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd. Felly, rydym yn gwneud ymdrechion i annog defnydd o'r rhyngrwyd: mae menter arwyr digidol Cymunedau Digidol Cymru wedi hyfforddi dros 5,000 o wirfoddolwyr ifanc i helpu pobl hŷn mewn ysbytai a chartrefi gofal i fynd ar-lein, a phrosiect arloesol arall yw cynllun benthyca tabled y Fro, sy'n caniatáu i drigolion ar draws Bro Morgannwg fenthyg iPads sy'n rhoi mynediad diogel at y rhyngrwyd o lyfrgelloedd lleol bron yr un mor hawdd ag y byddent yn benthyca llyfr.

I rai, nid dewis yw allgáu digidol ond canlyniad signal band eang gwael, sydd hefyd wedi'i grybwyll yma heddiw. Rydym eisiau gwneud yn siŵr fod pawb sy'n dymuno gwneud hynny yn gallu defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd. Hyd yma, mae Cyflymu Cymru wedi darparu mynediad band eang ffeibr cyflym i fwy na 733,000 o safleoedd ledled Cymru. Rydym hefyd wedi buddsoddi mwy na £200 miliwn i gamu i mewn am fod y farchnad wedi methu cysylltu 95 y cant o'r eiddo yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys nifer mewn ardaloedd gwledig.

Credaf mai egwyddor allweddol hyn oll yw y dylem gynllunio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar gyfer anghenion y defnyddiwr terfynol, ac fel arfer bydd hyn yn golygu gwasanaeth sy'n gweithio'n ddigidol ond sydd hefyd yn diwallu anghenion defnyddwyr terfynol sydd wedi'u hallgáu'n ddigidol, a dyna beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru am ei wneud.

Hoffwn orffen drwy roi sylw i'r cynnig y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru siarad â banciau, busnesau a sefydliadau eraill i wneud yn siŵr nad yw cwsmeriaid yn cael eu hynysu os mai dim ond gwasanaethau ar-lein a gynigir. Hoffwn dynnu sylw at ein cymorth i undebau credyd, sy'n galluogi rhai dinasyddion yng Nghymru i allu cael benthyciadau fforddiadwy ac arbedion, er bod banciau mawr yn gadael strydoedd mawr Cymru. Mae undebau credyd yn sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu trafod eu gofynion wyneb yn wyneb a chael mynediad at y cynhyrchion mwyaf addas i'w hanghenion.

Mae hefyd yn braf nodi—gallaf weld bod fy amser yn dod i ben—y llynedd, cynyddodd nifer y swyddfeydd post gwledig yng Nghymru o 619 i 636. Wrth gwrs, ni all swyddfeydd post lleol gymryd lle banciau, ond gallant gynnig gwasanaethau bancio sylfaenol wyneb yn wyneb i'w cwsmeriaid. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.  

16:50

Thank you. Can I now call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to reply to the debate?

Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Rhun ap Iorwerth i ymateb i'r ddadl?

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Weinidog. Diolch i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl yma'r prynhawn yma. Mae yna gytundeb, onid oes, bod yna fater yn fan hyn sydd wirioneddol yn rhywbeth sydd angen ei gymryd o ddifrif? 

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I thank everyone who has taken part in this debate this afternoon, and there is agreement, isn't there, that there is an issue here that is genuinely something that needs to be taken seriously?

I like the point that Mike Hedges made: some people just like talking to someone. And it's true. We were in this Chamber yesterday talking about loneliness and isolation. Having that access to people is very, very important. Also, I said that I'm very, very comfortable with online banking. I still don't think I'd arrange a mortgage online. To me, that's something a little bit too far; I'd like to actually look into somebody's eyes to arrange a mortgage. So, there are times when you genuinely want to have that face-to-face contact.

Suzy Davies made a very good point that figures on the number of older people using online services are growing, and she suggested maybe that's because people who have been using online services for a long time are just reaching that age bracket. It's true. But there's a serious point in that—there will come a time when everybody, or the vast majority of people, will be relatively comfortable with using online services, because that's what they've always done—there will be something else then. Will I, when I'm 80, be comfortable using the hologram services or whatever will be available at that time? The technology and the context might change, but the issue and point will remain the same, in that you have to be considerate of people's different needs and the varying rates at which people are willing and able to move ahead with technological change.

David Rowlands's description of walking into a room and seeing everybody staring at a digital screen—. I thought you were describing the Senedd Chamber there for a second, David [Laughter.] But again, there's a comparison there, isn't there? This is a modern Chamber, this is a young Chamber, where we did put digital technology in, but we have to make sure that—. There are other people who think that perhaps we've gone too far in being able to be online in here.

Thanks also to Janet Finch-Saunders for her contribution. And to the Deputy Minister, I don't doubt at all that Welsh Government is sincere and agrees with the principles that we're putting forward here today. It's whether Government is going far enough in its actions.

Thank you for taking the intervention on the Transport for Wales free bus passes issue. I do take issue with your claim that enough face-to-face support was offered. It's because people felt there wasn't enough face-to-face support or alternative support to going online that they did come in their hundreds through my office door. Again, there is, at best, a lack of equality, or there has been a lack of equality between people's ability to apply for that bus pass online and to do it on paper.

There probably won't be an exercise quite that big that will test the system in the same way, but certainly I hope that the point has been made today that, be it putting pressure on third parties or on taking action yourselves, Government has to show—. And we will hold Government to account if you trip up again or if we think that things aren't moving forward quickly enough. But I'm confident that the point has been made strongly today by everybody that has taken part, and, again, I thank those who've supported this today.

Technology is racing forward. A huge amount of good comes from changing and developing technology, obviously, but there do come some risks too. One of those risks is that people are, from time to time, left behind. We can't let that happen. So, as I say, I trust our message has been heard here today and we'll keep a close eye on firmer Government action on this in months and years to come. Diolch yn fawr.

Rwy'n hoffi'r pwynt a wnaeth Mike Hedges: mae rhai pobl yn hoffi siarad â rhywun. Ac mae'n wir. Roeddem yn y Siambr hon ddoe yn sôn am unigrwydd ac arwahanrwydd. Mae cael cysylltiad â phobl yn bwysig tu hwnt. Hefyd, dywedais fy mod yn gyfforddus iawn gyda bancio ar-lein. Er hynny, nid wyf yn meddwl y buaswn yn trefnu morgais ar-lein. I mi, mae hynny'n mynd ychydig bach yn rhy bell; hoffwn allu edrych i lygaid rhywun wrth drefnu morgais. Felly, mae yna adegau pan fyddwch o ddifrif eisiau cael cyswllt wyneb yn wyneb.

Gwnaeth Suzy Davies bwynt da iawn fod niferoedd y bobl hŷn sy'n defnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein yn cynyddu, ac awgrymodd efallai mai'r rheswm am hynny yw bod pobl sydd wedi bod yn defnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein ers amser hir yn cyrraedd y grŵp oedran hwnnw. Mae'n wir. Ond mae pwynt difrifol yn hynny—fe ddaw amser pan fydd pawb, neu'r mwyafrif llethol o bobl, yn gymharol gyfforddus â defnyddio gwasanaethau ar-lein, gan mai dyna y maent wedi'i wneud erioed—bydd rhywbeth arall erbyn hynny. A fyddaf fi, pan fyddaf yn 80 oed, yn gyfforddus yn defnyddio gwasanaethau hologram neu beth bynnag a fydd ar gael bryd hynny? Gallai'r dechnoleg a'r cyd-destun newid, ond bydd y broblem a'r pwynt yn aros yr un fath, yn yr ystyr fod yn rhaid i chi ystyried anghenion gwahanol pobl a'r cyfraddau amrywiol lle mae pobl yn barod ac yn gallu symud ymlaen â newid technolegol.

Roedd disgrifiad David Rowlands o gerdded i mewn i ystafell a gweld pawb yn syllu ar sgrin ddigidol—. Roeddwn yn meddwl eich bod yn disgrifio Siambr y Senedd am eiliad, David [Chwerthin.] Ond eto, mae yna gymhariaeth yno, onid oes? Mae hon yn Siambr fodern, Siambr ifanc, lle gwnaethom roi technoleg ddigidol i mewn, ond rhaid inni wneud yn siŵr fod—. Mae yna bobl eraill sy'n meddwl efallai ein bod wedi mynd yn rhy bell o ran gallu bod ar-lein yma.

Diolch hefyd i Janet Finch-Saunders am ei chyfraniad. Ac i'r Dirprwy Weinidog, nid wyf yn amau o gwbl fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ddiffuant ac yn cytuno â'r egwyddorion a gyflwynwn yma heddiw. A yw'r Llywodraeth yn mynd yn ddigon pell yn ei gweithredoedd yw'r cwestiwn.

Diolch am dderbyn yr ymyriad ar basys bws am ddim Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Rwy'n anghytuno â'ch honiad fod digon o gymorth wyneb yn wyneb wedi'i gynnig. Y rheswm pam y daeth pobl yn eu cannoedd drwy ddrws fy swyddfa oedd oherwydd eu bod yn teimlo nad oedd digon o gymorth wyneb yn wyneb na chymorth arall yn hytrach na mynd ar-lein wedi'i roi. Unwaith eto, mae diffyg cydraddoldeb ar y gorau, neu bu diffyg cydraddoldeb rhwng gallu pobl i wneud cais am y pàs bws hwnnw ar-lein a'i wneud ar bapur.

Mae'n debyg na cheir ymarfer mor fawr â hwnnw a fydd yn profi'r system yn yr un ffordd, ond yn sicr rwy'n gobeithio bod y pwynt wedi cael ei wneud heddiw, o ran rhoi pwysau ar drydydd partïon neu weithredu eich hunain, mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth ddangos—. A byddwn yn dwyn y Llywodraeth i gyfrif os byddwch yn baglu eto neu os credwn nad yw pethau'n symud yn eu blaenau'n ddigon cyflym. Ond rwy'n hyderus fod y pwynt wedi'i wneud yn gadarn heddiw gan bawb a gymerodd ran, ac unwaith eto, diolch i'r rhai a gefnogodd hyn heddiw.

Mae technoleg yn rhuthro yn ei blaen. Yn amlwg, daw llawer iawn o les yn sgil technoleg sy'n newid ac yn datblygu, ond mae rhai risgiau hefyd. Un o'r risgiau yw bod pobl, o bryd i'w gilydd, yn cael eu gadael ar ôl. Ni allwn adael i hynny ddigwydd. Felly, fel y dywedais, hyderaf fod ein neges wedi'i chlywed yma heddiw, a byddwn yn cadw llygad barcud ar gamau gweithredu mwy cadarn gan y Llywodraeth yn ystod y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd nesaf. Diolch yn fawr.

16:55

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, thank you. We defer voting on this item until voting time.

Diolch. Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Iawn, diolch. Gohiriwn y bleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

7. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau: Gwaith dilynol ar gysgu ar y stryd—Gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a gwasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau
7. Debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee Report: Rough sleeping follow up—Mental health and substance misuse services

Item 7 on the agenda is a debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee report 'Rough sleeping follow up: Mental health and substance misuse services.' I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—John Griffiths.

Eitem 7 ar yr agenda yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, 'Gwaith dilynol ar gysgu ar y stryd: Gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a gwasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau.' Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i gyflwyno'r cynnig—John Griffiths.

Cynnig NDM7267 John Griffiths

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, 'Gwaith dilynol ar gysgu ar y stryd—Gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a gwasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 19 Rhagfyr 2019.

Motion NDM7267 John Griffiths

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, 'Rough sleeping follow up—Mental health and substance misuse services', which was laid in the Table Office on 19 December 2019.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to open today's debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee report on the level of support for rough-sleepers with substance misuse and mental health issues, or co-occurring disorders as they are regularly referred to.

As a committee, we have been looking at rough-sleeping since the winter of 2017. Since we began this work, I think it's fair to say we've seen a real change in the sense of pace and urgency from Welsh Government in tackling these crucial matters. This is most evident in the establishment of the homelessness action group, and the Welsh Government's acceptance of the group's first set of recommendations. These looked at the very short-term actions that could be taken to alleviate levels of rough-sleeping over the winter. We look forward to the final set of recommendations from the group, and the Government’s response.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch o agor y ddadl heddiw ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau ar lefel y gefnogaeth i rai sy'n cysgu allan sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau, neu anhwylderau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd fel y cyfeirir atynt yn fynych.

Fel pwyllgor, buom yn edrych ar gysgu allan ers gaeaf 2017. Ers inni ddechrau ar y gwaith hwn, rwy'n credu ei bod yn deg dweud ein bod wedi gweld newid gwirioneddol yn yr ymdeimlad o gyflymder a brys gan Lywodraeth Cymru i fynd i'r afael â'r materion hollbwysig hyn. Mae hyn yn fwyaf amlwg yn y gwaith o sefydlu'r grŵp gweithredu ar ddigartrefedd, a'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn y set gyntaf o argymhellion gan y grŵp. Edrychodd y rhain ar y camau tymor byr iawn y gellid eu cymryd i leddfu lefelau o gysgu allan dros y gaeaf. Edrychwn ymlaen at y set olaf o argymhellion gan y grŵp, ac ymateb y Llywodraeth.

We are hopeful that some of the short-term actions, in particular around assertive outreach, will have started to help get some people off the streets. This is even more pressing when we consider the recent publication of the annual rough-sleeping count. As we stated in our original report, this count can only ever provide a snapshot, and cannot be seen as a definitive figure. However, it does provide us with some sense of the numbers sleeping rough. It is therefore worrying that the 2019 count showed a 17 per cent increase in the numbers compared to 2018.

Moving on to this particular piece of committee work, this is a case of the committee being very much led by the lived experience of those who slept rough. As part of our follow-up work on our original report, we spoke to rough-sleepers across all areas of Wales and those who provide them with support. Time and time again, we kept hearing about the barriers faced by those with co-occurring disorders. We heard that the right support is simply not there for people to get the help they need when they need it. We are incredibly grateful to all those who were willing and able to share their often difficult memories and experiences. 

There has been a worrying increase in the number of homeless people dying on the streets. Of these deaths, two in five are caused by drug poisoning. This is unacceptable, and provided further impetus to look in more detail at the issue.

I would like to thank the stakeholders who gave evidence to us. They were open and frank in their assessment of where the system was going wrong. They also had lots of ideas as to what could be done better. There were two things that they said to us that I would highlight. One was that this is an issue where the solutions are known, and that we just need to get on with implementing them. Secondly, we were told that being open and honest with us could have ramifications. This was not the first time that we had heard such concerns during our consideration of these issues. So, I would welcome the Minister today making a clear statement of support that organisations should be able to voice concerns about services or support without the risk of jeopardising their own funding.

As we highlight in our report, there are a lot of policies, strategic documents and action plans covering this area. This is to be expected when it cuts across so many different policy fields. However, it does mean that co-occurring disorders can fall between the gaps, as there is no one person or organisation to ensure that it is all brought together. But we are seeing positive change on this front, with actions in both the substance misuse delivery plan and the mental health delivery plan that seek to address some of the barriers to getting the right support to some of the most vulnerable people.

In the Welsh Government response, they state that the current deep dive project on co-occurring disorders will be looking at how issues can be unblocked to ensure full implementation of the service framework for co-occurring disorders. So, it would be useful if the Minister could outline what some of these particular issues are and whether they chime with the committee’s findings, in particular on commissioning, culture and leadership.

We have heard of pockets of good practice delivering life-changing support to people, but we are concerned that there is not the ability for this good practice to be replicated across Wales. We heard from the witnesses that often, the competitive nature of commissioning means that this does not happen. Organisations cannot then learn from others either what works well or what doesn't. I am therefore pleased that the Government has accepted recommendation 2. I would welcome some more detail today on the research and evaluation work being undertaken by Government to support dissemination of best practice.

Closely linked to the sharing of good practice is that of culture and leadership. Dr Sankey from the Community Care Collaborative told us about the silos she has tried to break down in bringing all the support services under one roof. But this has been challenging and difficult. Yet, Dr Sankey’s work and the Housing First models show us that services can work together to deliver integrated and cohesive support. And it is that sort of support that helps deliver the life-changing help that sticks, brings people off the streets and enables them to manage their substance misuse and mental health conditions.

The Welsh Government accepted in principle our recommendation 4, which called for them to take a lead role in bringing forward the necessary culture change. In their response, they emphasise the importance of local authorities stepping up to deliver this strategic leadership. We are slightly concerned that this could mean a continuation of fragmented delivery, with integration varying from one local authority to another. So, how will the Welsh Government endeavour to ensure that this does not happen?

We also note the emphasis that Welsh Government place on the housing support grant in their response, and we will continue to make our calls for the budget for this important funding to be increased in the 2020-21 budget.

Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing, we hope that we will start to see the necessary changes that mean that we see far fewer people on our streets, and those who are there get support in a quick and timely manner. I very much look forward to hearing the views of other Members and, of course, the Minister’s response. Diolch yn fawr.

Rydym yn obeithiol y bydd rhai o'r camau gweithredu tymor byr, yn enwedig mewn perthynas ag allgymorth grymusol, wedi dechrau helpu i gael rhai pobl oddi ar y strydoedd. Mae hyn yn fwy pwysig byth pan ystyriwn y cyfrif blynyddol o nifer y rhai sy'n cysgu allan a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar. Fel y nodwyd yn ein hadroddiad gwreiddiol, dim ond ciplun y gall y cyfrif ei roi, ac ni ellir ei ystyried yn ffigur pendant. Fodd bynnag, mae'n rhoi syniad inni o'r niferoedd sy'n cysgu allan. Mae'n destun pryder felly fod y cyfrif ar gyfer 2019 yn dangos cynnydd o 17 y cant yn y niferoedd o'i gymharu â 2018.

Gan symud ymlaen at y gwaith penodol hwn gan y pwyllgor, mae'n deillio o'r ffaith bod y pwyllgor yn cael ei arwain i raddau helaeth gan brofiad bywyd y rhai sy'n cysgu allan. Fel rhan o'n gwaith dilynol ar ein hadroddiad gwreiddiol, buom yn siarad â rhai sy'n cysgu allan ar draws pob ardal yng Nghymru a'r rheini sy'n rhoi cymorth iddynt. Dro ar ôl tro, clywsom am y rhwystrau sy'n wynebu pobl ag anhwylderau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd. Clywsom nad yw'r gefnogaeth gywir ar gael i bobl gael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt pan fyddant ei angen. Rydym yn hynod ddiolchgar i bawb a oedd yn barod ac yn abl i rannu eu hatgofion a'u profiadau digon anodd yn aml.

Bu cynnydd gofidus yn nifer y bobl ddigartref sy'n marw ar y strydoedd. O'r marwolaethau hyn, achosir dau o bob pump gan wenwyn cyffuriau. Mae hyn yn annerbyniol, a rhoddodd ysgogiad pellach i edrych yn fanylach ar y mater.

Hoffwn ddiolch i'r rhanddeiliaid a roddodd dystiolaeth i ni. Roeddent yn agored ac yn onest yn eu hasesiad o ble roedd y system yn mynd o'i le. Roedd ganddynt hefyd lawer o syniadau am yr hyn y gellid ei wneud yn well. Hoffwn dynnu sylw at ddau o'r pethau a ddywedwyd wrthym. Un ohonynt oedd bod hwn yn fater lle mae'r atebion yn hysbys, a bod angen inni fwrw ati i'w gweithredu. Yn ail, dywedwyd wrthym y gallai fod goblygiadau yn sgil bod yn agored ac yn onest â ni. Nid dyma'r tro cyntaf inni glywed pryderon o'r fath wrth inni ystyried y materion hyn. Felly, buaswn yn falch pe bai'r Gweinidog yn gwneud datganiad clir o gefnogaeth heddiw y dylai sefydliadau allu lleisio pryderon am wasanaethau neu gymorth heb risg o beryglu eu cyllid eu hunain.

Fel yr amlygwn yn ein hadroddiad, ceir llawer o bolisïau, dogfennau strategol a chynlluniau gweithredu ar gyfer y maes hwn. Mae hyn i'w ddisgwyl pan fydd yn torri ar draws cynifer o feysydd polisi gwahanol. Fodd bynnag, mae'n golygu y gall anhwylderau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd ddisgyn rhwng y bylchau, gan nad oes un unigolyn na sefydliad i sicrhau bod y cyfan yn cael ei dynnu at ei gilydd. Ond rydym yn gweld newid cadarnhaol yn hyn o beth, gyda chamau gweithredu yn y cynllun cyflawni ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau a'r cynllun cyflawni ar gyfer iechyd meddwl sy'n ceisio mynd i'r afael â rhai o'r rhwystrau i gael y cymorth cywir i rai o'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed.

Yn ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru, maent yn datgan y bydd y prosiect at wraidd y mater ar anhwylderau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd yn edrych ar sut y gellid dadflocio problemau i sicrhau y gweithredir fframwaith y gwasanaeth yn llawn ar gyfer anhwylderau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd. Felly, byddai'n ddefnyddiol pe gallai'r Gweinidog amlinellu beth yw rhai o'r materion penodol hyn ac a ydynt yn cyd-fynd â chanfyddiadau'r pwyllgor, yn enwedig ar gomisiynu, diwylliant ac arweinyddiaeth.

Clywsom am bocedi o ymarfer da sy'n cynnig cymorth sy'n newid bywydau pobl, ond rydym yn pryderu nad oes gallu i efelychu'r ymarfer da hwnnw ledled Cymru. Clywsom gan y tystion fod natur gystadleuol comisiynu yn aml yn golygu nad yw hyn yn digwydd. Ni all sefydliadau ddysgu gan eraill felly beth sy'n gweithio'n dda neu beidio. Rwy'n falch felly fod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhelliad 2. Buaswn yn croesawu rhagor o fanylion heddiw am y gwaith ymchwil a gwerthuso a wneir gan y Llywodraeth i gefnogi'r broses o ledaenu ymarfer gorau.

Mae cysylltiad agos rhwng rhannu ymarfer da a diwylliant ac arweinyddiaeth. Dywedodd Dr Sankey o'r Gydweithfa Gofal Cymunedol wrthym am y seilos y mae wedi ceisio eu chwalu i ddod â'r holl wasanaethau cymorth o dan yr un to. Ond mae hyn wedi bod yn heriol ac yn anodd. Eto i gyd, mae gwaith Dr Sankey a'r modelau Tai yn Gyntaf yn dangos i ni y gall gwasanaethau weithio gyda'i gilydd i ddarparu cefnogaeth integredig a chydlynol. A dyma'r math o gefnogaeth sy'n helpu i ddarparu'r cymorth sy'n newid bywydau'n barhaol, yn dod â phobl oddi ar y strydoedd ac yn eu galluogi i reoli eu camddefnydd o sylweddau a'u cyflyrau iechyd meddwl.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn ein hargymhelliad 4 mewn egwyddor, argymhelliad a oedd yn galw arnynt i arwain y gwaith o gyflwyno'r newid diwylliant sy'n angenrheidiol. Yn eu hymateb, maent yn pwysleisio pa mor bwysig yw hi i awdurdodau lleol gamu ymlaen i ddarparu'r arweinyddiaeth strategol hon. Rydym braidd yn bryderus y gallai hyn olygu bod darpariaeth dameidiog yn parhau, gydag integreiddio'n amrywio o un awdurdod lleol i'r llall. Felly, sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymdrechu i sicrhau nad yw hyn yn digwydd?

Rydym hefyd yn nodi'r pwyslais y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei roi ar y grant cymorth tai yn eu hymateb, a byddwn yn parhau i alw am gynyddu'r cyllid pwysig hwn yng nghyllideb 2020-21.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, wrth gloi, gobeithiwn y byddwn yn dechrau gweld y newidiadau angenrheidiol sy'n golygu ein bod yn gweld llawer llai o bobl ar ein strydoedd, a bod y rhai sydd yno'n cael cymorth yn gyflym ac yn amserol. Edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr at glywed barn Aelodau eraill, ac at ymateb y Gweinidog wrth gwrs. Diolch yn fawr.

17:05

Well, as our report states:

'An issue that kept being raised was the difficulty for rough sleepers to access integrated substance misuse and mental health services'

and

'we have concerns on the level of integrated support for rough sleepers with co-occurring disorders.'

Although we noted that:

'There may be some small pockets of integrated services such as the work of the Community Care Collaborative in Wrexham',

referred to by the Chair,

'these appear to be the exception and not the norm.' 

Briefing us on her research into priority need and rough-sleeping, Dr Helen Taylor from Cardiff Metropolitan University, told us that just making someone a priority would not address the issues that they were experiencing. She said that it won't solve the problems—giving them somewhere to live and giving them help; they have to want to do it. You have to give them that chance. Dr Taylor also told us that many spoke of their experience in schools, which did not know how to deal with their conditions and behaviours.

In accepting our first recommendation, the Welsh Government stated that it has

'established a Welsh Government Co-occurring Substance Misuse/Mental Health Deep Dive to consider progress in the development of co-occurring mental health and substance misuse and the challenges that remain.'

Perhaps it could tell us in plain language what that means, how and when this will report, when things will be done differently, and how performance will be monitored. 

The Welsh Government only accepts in principle our recommendation 4 calling on it to take

'a lead role in working with organisations across sectors to drive forward the necessary cultural change',

and dodges our statement that it should

'update the Committee on the actions it has taken and timescales for future actions to deliver this recommendation at six, nine and twelve months.'

And we thought long and hard about that, and that was an important recommendation for us. It instead states that:

'Implementing the Housing Support Grant will be the key mechanism through which we will achieve this objective.'

Despite this, as we've heard, the Welsh Government played fast and loose with this grant in its draft budget by giving it a cash-flat settlement—a cut in real terms—with Cymorth Cymru, Community Housing Cymru and Welsh Women's Aid warning that services preventing homelessness and supporting independent living have now reached tipping point. As a supported-living service provider in north Wales told me, and I'll say it again, the consequences will be increased pressures on the NHS, A&E and blue-light services, adding that this, combined with the Welsh Government's planned redistribution of housing support grant, will be 'devastating to north Wales'.

The Welsh Government accepts our recommendation 7, and says that it is currently undertaking further work to understand the barriers faced by rough-sleepers with co-occurring disorders and neurodiverse conditions, and that this,

'will form part of developing future services which better meet the needs of vulnerable individuals.'

Several witnesses with experience of rough-sleeping referred to their own Asperger’s or autism or that of loved ones. What has the Welsh Government been doing all these years, despite being told repeatedly that, too often, autistic people are being treated as the problem by public sector officials at senior levels, who have failed to establish and meet their communication and sensory processing needs?

In accepting our recommendation 9, the Welsh Government states that it remains committed to ensuring that residential rehabilitation and in-patient detoxification services are available and that it allocates £1 million ring-fenced annual funding to area planning boards for the provision of these tier 4 services and that it is currently tendering for a contract for an all-Wales substance misuse residential rehabilitation framework, which will provide a list of approved residential rehabilitation and detoxification service providers. What they don't say is that it’s still unclear whether the £1 million is ring-fenced; that their previous framework, which resulted in referrals to non-framework units outside Wales, has expired; that, following damning reports, a previous Welsh Government stated that it was taking forward work on three units in Wales, but two of these have since closed; or that the latest ONS figures show that Wales saw an 84 per cent increase in drug-related deaths over the previous decade and that, across England and Wales, Wales comes second only to the north-east of England for the highest mortality rate for drug-related deaths.

As the Wallich's chief executive told us,

'we definitely need to improve access to tier 4, but, at the moment, my services can't get people through the assessment.'

As the chief executive of Kaleidoscope told us, tier 4 is chronically underfunded and there's very little funding for anyone with a drugs issue to get into a tier 4 service.

Wel, fel y dywed ein hadroddiad:

'Mater a oedd yn cael ei godi dro ar ôl tro oedd yr anhawster i bobl sy’n cysgu ar y stryd gael mynediad at wasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau ac iechyd meddwl integredig'

ac

'mae gennym bryderon ynghylch lefel y gefnogaeth integredig i bobl sy’n cysgu ar y stryd ac sydd ag anhwylderau sy’n cyd-ddigwydd.'

Er i ni nodi:

'Efallai y bydd rhai pocedi bach o wasanaethau integredig fel gwaith y Gydweithfa Gofal Cymunedol yn Wrecsam',

y cyfeiriwyd ato gan y Cadeirydd,

'ymddengys mai eithriad yw’r rhain ac nid y norm.'

Wrth ein briffio ar ei hymchwil i angen blaenoriaethol a chysgu allan, dywedodd Dr Helen Taylor o Brifysgol Metropolitan Caerdydd wrthym na fyddai gwneud rhywun yn flaenoriaeth ynddo'i hun yn mynd i'r afael â'r problemau yr oeddent yn eu dioddef. Dywedodd na fyddai'n datrys y problemau—rhoi rhywle iddynt fyw a rhoi cymorth iddynt; mae'n rhaid iddynt fod eisiau ei wneud. Rhaid ichi roi'r cyfle hwnnw iddynt. Dywedodd Dr Taylor wrthym hefyd fod llawer yn sôn am eu profiad mewn ysgolion, nad oeddent yn gwybod sut i ymdrin â'u cyflyrau a'u hymddygiad.

Wrth dderbyn ein hargymhelliad cyntaf, dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei bod wedi

'sefydlu ymchwiliad at wraidd Camddefnyddio Sylweddau/Iechyd Meddwl i ystyried cynnydd o ran datblygu gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd, a'r heriau sy'n parhau.' 

Efallai y gallai ddweud wrthym mewn iaith glir beth y mae hynny'n ei olygu, sut a phryd y bydd hwn yn adrodd, pa bryd y gwneir pethau'n wahanol, a sut y caiff perfformiad ei fonitro.  

Mewn egwyddor yn unig y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn derbyn ein hargymhelliad 4 sy'n galw arni i fabwysiadu

'rôl arweiniol wrth weithio gyda sefydliadau ar draws sectorau i fwrw ymlaen â’r newid diwylliannol angenrheidiol',

ac mae'n osgoi ein datganiad y dylai

'ddiweddaru’r Pwyllgor ar y camau y mae wedi’u cymryd a’r amserlenni ar gyfer camau yn y dyfodol i gyflawni’r argymhelliad hwn ar ôl chwech, naw a deuddeg mis.'

Ac fe fuom yn meddwl yn hir ac yn galed am hynny, ac roedd hwnnw'n argymhelliad pwysig inni. Mae'n dweud, yn lle hynny:

'Rhoi'r Grant Cymorth Tai ar waith fydd y prif fecanwaith a fydd yn ein helpu i gyflawni'r amcan hwn.'

Er gwaethaf hyn, fel y clywsom, fe fu Llywodraeth Cymru yn anghyfrifol gyda'r grant hwn yn ei chyllideb ddrafft drwy roi setliad arian gwastad iddo—toriad mewn termau real—gyda Cymorth Cymru, Cartrefi Cymunedol Cymru a Cymorth i Fenywod Cymru yn rhybuddio bod gwasanaethau sy'n atal digartrefedd a chefnogi byw'n annibynnol bellach wedi cyrraedd pwynt tyngedfennol. Fel y dywedodd darparwr gwasanaeth byw â chymorth yng ngogledd Cymru wrthyf, ac fe'i dywedaf eto, y canlyniadau fydd mwy o bwysau ar y GIG, adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys a golau glas, gan ychwanegu y bydd hyn, ynghyd â bwriad Llywodraeth Cymru i ailddosbarthu grant cymorth tai, yn 'ddinistriol i ogledd Cymru'.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn derbyn ein hargymhelliad 7, ac yn dweud ei bod yn gwneud gwaith pellach ar hyn o bryd i ddeall y rhwystrau a wynebir gan rai sy'n cysgu allan ag anhwylderau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd a chyflyrau niwroamrywiol, ac y bydd hyn,

'yn rhan o ddatblygu gwasanaethau at y dyfodol, a rheiny’n wasanaethau sy'n diwallu anghenion unigolion sy'n agored i niwed yn well.'

Cyfeiriodd sawl tyst â phrofiad o gysgu allan at eu syndrom Asperger neu eu hawtistiaeth eu hunain neu rywun annwyl. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn ei wneud yr holl flynyddoedd hyn, er iddi glywed dro ar ôl tro fod pobl awtistig yn rhy aml yn cael eu trin fel problem gan swyddogion y sector cyhoeddus ar lefelau uwch sydd wedi methu sefydlu a diwallu eu hanghenion cyfathrebu a phrosesu synhwyraidd?

Wrth dderbyn ein hargymhelliad 9, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn datgan ei bod yn parhau'n ymrwymedig i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau adsefydlu preswyl a dadwenwyno ar gyfer cleifion mewnol ar gael a'i bod yn dyrannu £1 filiwn o gyllid blynyddol wedi'i glustnodi i fyrddau cynllunio ardal ar gyfer darparu'r gwasanaethau haen 4 hyn a'i bod ar hyn o bryd yn tendro am gontract ar gyfer fframwaith adsefydlu preswyl ar gyfer camddefnyddio sylweddau i Gymru gyfan, a fydd yn darparu rhestr o ddarparwyr gwasanaethau adsefydlu preswyl a dadwenyno cymeradwy. Yr hyn nad ydynt yn ei ddweud yw ei bod yn aneglur o hyd a yw'r £1 filiwn wedi'i glustnodi; fod eu fframwaith blaenorol, a arweiniodd at atgyfeiriadau at unedau nad oeddent yn rhai fframwaith y tu allan i Gymru, wedi dod i ben; fod Llywodraeth Cymru flaenorol wedi datgan, yn dilyn adroddiadau damniol, ei bod yn bwrw ymlaen â gwaith ar dair uned yng Nghymru, ond bod dwy o'r rhain wedi cau ers hynny; neu fod ffigurau diweddaraf y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn dangos bod Cymru wedi gweld cynnydd o 84 y cant yn nifer y marwolaethau cysylltiedig â chyffuriau dros y degawd diwethaf ac ar draws Cymru a Lloegr, gogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr yn unig sydd â chyfradd farwolaethau uwch o farwolaethau cysylltiedig â chyffuriau.

Fel y dywedodd prif weithredwr Wallich wrthym,

yn bendant mae angen inni wella mynediad at haen 4, ond ar hyn o bryd, ni all fy ngwasanaethau gael pobl drwy'r asesiad.

Fel y dywedodd prif weithredwr Kaleidoscope wrthym, mae haen 4 wedi'i danariannu'n eithafol ac ychydig iawn o gyllid sydd ar gael i unrhyw un sydd â phroblem gyffuriau allu cael gwasanaeth haen 4.

17:10

I wasn't a member of the committee during the course of this inquiry, but having read the report subsequently, I'd like to thank my new colleagues for this comprehensive and detailed piece of work. So I'd like to start off by thanking the committee for doing a sterling job and to say that I look forward to playing an active role in future inquiries. 

I'd also like to thank all the organisations and individuals who gave evidence during this inquiry. I know that dedicated staff pour their life and souls into trying to help people who have very complex needs; it can be a very difficult job, and I'd like to pay tribute to all those workers and volunteers for their efforts. 

The scale of the challenge facing vulnerable people who are at risk of homelessness or who are already homeless is truly daunting. Homelessness is increasing year on year. Wales faces a rough-sleeping emergency, according to the the homelessness action group. The ONS estimates that 34 people died in Wales in 2018 as a result of homelessness. Let's just pause a moment on that point: 34 people died because of homelessness in Wales, our civilised society, in 2018. Who can disagree with the committee's assertion that these are shocking statistics and, in one of the richest economies of the world, unacceptable? Let's remember that homelessness is not inevitable, it's a political choice, given that governments have the power to prevent it. So what's going wrong in Wales, given that there are no fewer than six separate Welsh Government programmes to try to reduce this problem?

Let me quote from the report: rough-sleepers have difficulty accessing substance misuse and mental health services and 

'there are currently very limited, if any integrated services for rough sleepers with co-occurring disorders.'

The report goes on to highlight specific systemic problems and offers solutions. 

Its first recommendation is that the Welsh Government provides a report on the implementation of the rough-sleeping action plan so that faults within provision can be rectified. The Welsh Government's response: this isn't necessary. 

We learn that there is a lack of sharing of good practice where we have pockets of success—the Community Care Collaborative in Wrexham and Housing First programmes in Gwent are given as examples of excellent practice that should be replicated elsewhere. 

The Welsh Government does accept the committee's recommendation to improve shared practice and remove the barriers that exist within commissioning systems that can act as a disincentive for people to be able to be honest about initiatives that haven't worked. Yet, what are they actually going to change? Nothing. There's a general consensus that establishing consumption rooms has the potential to protect vulnerable people from dangerous situations. The north Wales police and crime commissioner, Arfon Jones, has been campaigning to be allowed a consumption room pilot scheme in order to see whether positive results that have been seen in other countries can be replicated in Wales. Here is an example of an elected representative seeking to improve people's lives proactively, but he was denied the right by the UK Government that is ideologically opposed to this.

The committee report urges the Welsh Government to look at clarifying whether the devolution settlement enables safe injecting rooms to be set up in Wales, and if it isn't, to demand the power be devolved. Their response was 'no'.

The other recurring theme is a lack of time and resource for staff to be able to adequately deal with the issues they face every day, so let's see an increase in the housing support grant, as has already been said. I have no doubt that the Minister has a real desire to solve these problems, and that she would love to be able to tell this Senedd in a year's time that real progress has been made, but I'm afraid I am sceptical whether she'll be able to do so. As one witness told the inquiry:

'I really hope we're not sat here again in three years having the same conversation, because I suspect we will be.'

So, I would urge her to treat this report with utmost seriousness—I'm sure she does—and to think again about using the considerable levers of Government power that the Government has in order to drive through change with passion and vigour, rather than keeping faith with what witnesses to the committee described as a broken system. Minister, you have the power to effect change, please use it.

Nid oeddwn yn aelod o'r pwyllgor yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn, ond ar ôl darllen yr adroddiad wedi hynny, hoffwn ddiolch i fy nghydweithwyr newydd am y gwaith cynhwysfawr a manwl hwn. Felly hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am wneud gwaith rhagorol a dweud fy mod yn edrych ymlaen at chwarae rhan weithredol mewn ymchwiliadau yn y dyfodol.  

Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i'r holl sefydliadau ac unigolion a roddodd dystiolaeth yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn. Gwn fod staff ymroddedig yn tywallt eu bywydau a'u heneidiau i mewn i geisio helpu pobl sydd ag anghenion cymhleth iawn; gall fod yn waith anodd iawn, a hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'r holl weithwyr a gwirfoddolwyr am eu hymdrechion. 

Mae maint yr her sy'n wynebu pobl agored i niwed sydd mewn perygl o fod yn ddigartref neu sydd eisoes yn ddigartref yn wirioneddol frawychus. Mae digartrefedd yn cynyddu o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Mae Cymru'n wynebu argyfwng cysgu allan yn ôl y grŵp gweithredu ar ddigartrefedd. Mae'r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn amcangyfrif bod 34 o bobl wedi marw yng Nghymru yn 2018 o ganlyniad i ddigartrefedd. Gadewch i ni oedi am eiliad ar y pwynt hwnnw: bu farw 34 o bobl oherwydd digartrefedd yng Nghymru, ein cymdeithas wâr, yn 2018. Pwy all anghytuno â haeriad y pwyllgor fod y rhain yn ystadegau brawychus, ac annerbyniol yn un o economïau cyfoethocaf y byd? Gadewch inni gofio nad yw digartrefedd yn anochel, mae'n ddewis gwleidyddol, o ystyried bod gan lywodraethau bŵer i'w atal. Felly beth sy'n mynd o'i le yng Nghymru, o gofio bod cymaint â chwe rhaglen wahanol gan Lywodraeth Cymru i geisio lleihau'r broblem hon?

Gadewch imi ddyfynnu o'r adroddiad: mae pobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd yn cael anhawster i gael gafael ar wasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau a gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac   

'ar hyn o bryd... cyfyngedig, os o gwbl, yw’r gwasanaethau integredig sydd ar gael ar gyfer pobl sy’n cysgu ar y stryd ac sydd ag anhwylderau sy’n cyd-ddigwydd.'

Mae'r adroddiad yn mynd rhagddo i dynnu sylw at broblemau systemig penodol ac yn cynnig atebion.  

Ei argymhelliad cyntaf yw bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu adroddiad ar weithredu'r cynllun gweithredu ar gysgu ar y stryd fel y gellir unioni diffygion o fewn y ddarpariaeth. Ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru: nid oes angen hyn.  

Dysgwn fod diffyg rhannu ymarfer da lle mae gennym bocedi o lwyddiant—rhoddir y Gydweithfa Gofal Cymunedol yn Wrecsam a rhaglenni Tai yn Gyntaf yng Ngwent fel enghreifftiau o ymarfer rhagorol y dylid ei efelychu mewn mannau eraill.  

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn derbyn argymhelliad y pwyllgor y dylid gwella ymarfer a rennir a dileu'r rhwystrau sy'n bodoli mewn systemau comisiynu a all atal pobl rhag gallu bod yn onest am fentrau nad ydynt wedi gweithio. Eto i gyd, beth y maent yn mynd i'w newid mewn gwirionedd? Dim. Mae yna gonsensws cyffredinol fod gan sefydlu ystafelloedd cymryd cyffuriau botensial i amddiffyn pobl sy'n agored i niwed rhag sefyllfaoedd peryglus. Mae comisiynydd heddlu a throsedd gogledd Cymru, Arfon Jones, wedi bod yn ymgyrchu dros gael cynllun peilot ar gyfer ystafell gymryd cyffuriau i weld a ellir ailadrodd canlyniadau cadarnhaol a welwyd mewn gwledydd eraill yng Nghymru. Dyma enghraifft o gynrychiolydd etholedig sy'n ceisio gwella bywydau pobl yn rhagweithiol, ond gwrthodwyd hawl iddo wneud hynny gan Lywodraeth y DU sy'n gwrthwynebu hyn yn ideolegol.

Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i ystyried egluro a yw'r setliad datganoli yn ei gwneud hi'n bosibl sefydlu ystafelloedd chwistrellu cyffuriau diogel yng Nghymru, ac os nad ydyw, i fynnu bod y pŵer yn cael ei ddatganoli. Eu hymateb oedd 'na'.

Y thema gyson arall yw diffyg amser ac adnoddau i staff allu ymdrin yn ddigonol â'r problemau y maent yn eu hwynebu bob dydd, felly gadewch inni weld cynnydd yn y grant cymorth tai, fel y dywedwyd eisoes. Nid oes gennyf amheuaeth nad oes gan y Gweinidog awydd gwirioneddol i ddatrys y problemau hyn, ac y byddai wrth ei bodd yn gallu dweud wrth y Senedd hon ymhen blwyddyn fod cynnydd gwirioneddol wedi'i wneud, ond mae arnaf ofn fy mod yn amau y gall gwneud hynny. Fel y dywedodd un tyst wrth yr ymchwiliad:

Rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr na fyddwn ni'n eistedd yma eto ymhen tair blynedd yn cael yr un sgwrs, oherwydd rwy'n tybio y byddwn.

Felly, byddwn yn ei hannog i drin yr adroddiad hwn gyda'r difrifoldeb mwyaf—rwy'n siŵr ei bod—ac yn ailfeddwl ynglŷn â defnyddio'r grym sylweddol sydd gan y Llywodraeth i sbarduno newid gydag angerdd ac egni, yn hytrach na pharhau i roi ffydd yn yr hyn a ddisgrifiwyd gan dystion i'r pwyllgor fel system doredig. Weinidog, mae gennych bŵer i weithredu newid: defnyddiwch ef os gwelwch yn dda.

17:15

Can I begin my contribution by thanking members of the committee, and our new member as well, for their contributions today, but also John and his chairing for taking us back to look at this issue, which predecessors on this committee, under his stewardship, have looked at—both this and also wider issues related to it as well? I think it was well worth doing, because it's probably one of the most rewarding experiences that I've had as a committee member in my time to actually be sitting down with people with lived experience of rough-sleeping, of homelessness, and them talking us through it. It was very difficult, very challenging—both for them but also for us to hear what they are telling us, frankly, where they've been through the mill time and time again. It's like a game of snakes and ladders, but where the snakes are immeasurably longer and the fall much deeper than the ladders—the slow step up, bit by bit.

We did hear of good practice, but in pockets, and this difficulty of not only leadership locally on the ground within individual organisations, within individual areas, but also how to disseminate that wider, because one of the themes that was consistently said to us is that, actually, we can see what works. When you have all of the services properly co-ordinated, when, as was said to us, there should be a no-wrong-door approach—when you present with an issue of rough-sleeping or homelessness, the services there should pick you up and then wrap around you, one way or the other.

Of course, one of the examples of this that we heard that there was good success, in Wrexham and in other places, was, of course, the Housing First approach there, but it's not, we were told as well, by many people, including those representing organisations involved directly in providing the Housing First approach, the magic bullet. It's a very good approach, and credit to those who are taking it forward and the Welsh Government for supporting it, but it's not a one-size-fits-all model on it.

But it's worth reflecting not just on some of the challenges but the way forward, because we were told by people—by witnesses in front of us—that we have the right framework in Wales that should be able to fix this, so that we can get to the point where the best practice we see is as normal. We were told this by people who came in front of us, and the frustration over, as Delyth has just said, people saying to us, 'We don't want to be back here in three years' time under John or somebody else's stewardship saying, "Let's have a look at this again" and point out the same things, and how we're still failing on culture, on leadership, on sharing best practice and on that no-wrong-door approach there.'

So, let me just pick up on a couple of things here that came directly out of the report that Ministers have looked at. We were told by many witnesses that one problem was the commissioning process. We were told, and it's there in the report, as one witness told us—. So, if you've got a sector driven by competition, and we did pick that up a lot—even though many organisations out there were trying to do the right thing, many of them also felt a little bit guarded, because they felt they were also in competition with other organisations that are overlapping but not quite with the same objectives, which is quite interesting.

So, if you've got a sector driven by competition, we were told, it means, first of all, nobody can be vulnerable, nobody can say, 'These are the lessons we've learnt, look at what a cock-up we made over here, we need to change it.' Nobody can be vulnerable, everybody has to be brilliant all of the time, especially so Ministers can see they're being brilliant to keep their contracts, to keep doing their work. Well, if you can't have a system that's vulnerable, you don't have learning cultures that are swift and agile and can flex, unless you completely step outside the system and are prepared to do something else. In fact, we did speak to some people who had stepped outside of the system entirely, and had chosen, then, to do things outside of the system without support. And to commend them, they were achieving amazing things but they couldn't fit it into the boxes that they were told to do it within.

And we also heard about this big dilemma where people were choosing not to access services sometimes because they felt it was better for them to be on the streets. That was quite remarkable. Members of the public out there, my constituents would say, 'Surely that cannot be right', but we heard about this. We heard from one witness, 'The real thing that's stopping people coming in is that the offer we have in services is less than what the streets offer.' If you're in the throes of addiction, you've got all these complex mental health issues and other things—you can turn that pain off with spice or heroin quite easily. We can't offer that. You can be nobody in a flat or you can be somebody on the streets. There are cultural implications as well for people who've been out there for a long time.

This is getting beyond the tabloid headlines with this stuff—the complexity of this. I was immensely proud to be part of this. I think the homelessness action group will pick up on some of the acceptance in principle positions of the Minister, and bring forward, I think, some of the solutions, because this is still a work-in-progress. Lots of good work is going on, Minister, but getting a grip on this I think will be day after day, week after week, month after month, until we don't have to come back in three years and say, 'Look at what we're pointing to again.'

A gaf fi ddechrau fy nghyfraniad drwy ddiolch i aelodau'r pwyllgor, a'n haelod newydd yn ogystal, am eu cyfraniadau heddiw, ond hefyd i John a'i gadeiryddiaeth am fynd â ni'n ôl i edrych ar y mater hwn y mae rhagflaenwyr ar y pwyllgor hwn, o dan ei stiwardiaeth, wedi edrych arno—y materion hyn a materion ehangach yn ymwneud ag ef yn ogystal? Rwy'n credu ei fod yn werth ei wneud, oherwydd mae'n debyg mai un o'r profiadau mwyaf boddhaus a gefais fel aelod o'r pwyllgor yn fy amser oedd eistedd gyda phobl a oedd â phrofiad o gysgu ar y stryd, o ddigartrefedd, a'u cael i siarad drwy'r profiad gyda ni. Roedd yn anodd iawn, yn heriol iawn—iddynt hwy ond hefyd i ni wrth i ni wrando ar yr hyn roeddent yn ei ddweud wrthym yn onest, lle roeddent wedi bod drwy'r felin dro ar ôl tro. Mae fel gêm nadroedd ac ysgolion, ond lle mae'r nadroedd yn hirach o lawer a'r cwymp yn llawer dyfnach na'r ysgolion—y camu i fyny araf, fesul tipyn.

Clywsom am ymarfer da, ond mewn pocedi, a'r anhawster nid yn unig o ran arweiniad lleol ar lawr gwlad mewn sefydliadau unigol, mewn ardaloedd unigol, ond hefyd o ran sut i ledaenu hynny'n ehangach, gan mai un o'r themâu a glywsom yn gyson yw ein bod yn gallu gweld beth sy'n gweithio. Pan fydd pob un o'r gwasanaethau wedi'u cydlynu'n iawn gennych, ac fel y dywedwyd wrthym, dylid cael ymagwedd sy'n pennu nad oes un drws anghywir—os oes gennych broblem sy'n gysylltiedig â chysgu allan neu ddigartrefedd, dylai'r gwasanaethau yno ddod i wybod amdanoch a dod atoch i'ch helpu mewn rhyw ffordd neu'i gilydd.

Wrth gwrs, un o'r enghreifftiau o hyn y clywsom ei bod yn llwyddiant oedd yr un yn Wrecsam ac mewn mannau eraill, sef y dull Tai yn Gyntaf yno wrth gwrs, ond dywedwyd wrthym gan lawer o bobl hefyd, gan gynnwys y rhai sy'n cynrychioli sefydliadau sy'n ymwneud yn uniongyrchol â darparu'r dull Tai yn Gyntaf, nad yw'n ateb i bob dim. Mae'n ddull da iawn, ac yn glod i'r rhai sy'n ei ddatblygu a Llywodraeth Cymru am ei gefnogi, ond nid yw'n fodel sy'n un ateb i bawb.

Ond mae'n werth ystyried nid yn unig rhai o'r heriau ond y ffordd ymlaen, oherwydd dywedodd pobl wrthym—tystion a ddaeth ger ein bron—fod gennym fframwaith cywir a ddylai allu datrys hyn yng Nghymru, fel y gallwn gyrraedd pwynt lle mae'r ymarfer gorau a welwn yn normal. Cawsom wybod hyn gan bobl a ddaeth ger ein bron, a'r rhwystredigaeth, fel y mae Delyth newydd ei ddweud, o glywed pobl yn dweud wrthym, 'Nid ydym am fod yn ôl yma ymhen tair blynedd dan stiwardiaeth John neu rywun arall yn dweud, "Gadewch inni edrych ar hyn eto" a nodi'r un pethau, a sut rydym yn dal i fethu o ran diwylliant, arweinyddiaeth, rhannu ymarfer gorau a dull gweithredu sy'n pennu nad oes un drws anghywir.'

Felly, gadewch imi sôn am ychydig o bethau a ddaeth yn uniongyrchol o'r adroddiad y mae Gweinidogion wedi'u hystyried. Dywedodd llawer o dystion wrthym mai un broblem oedd y broses gomisiynu. Dywedwyd wrthym, ac mae yn yr adroddiad, fel y dywedodd un tyst wrthym—. Os oes gennych chi sector sy'n cael ei yrru gan gystadleuaeth, a gwnaethom nodi hynny'n aml—er bod llawer o sefydliadau yn ceisio gwneud y peth iawn, roedd llawer ohonynt yn teimlo braidd yn ochelgar hefyd, am eu bod yn teimlo eu bod yn cystadlu â sefydliadau eraill sy'n gorgyffwrdd ond heb fod â'r un amcanion yn union, sy'n eithaf diddorol.

Felly, dywedwyd wrthym os oes gennych chi sector sy'n cael ei yrru gan gystadleuaeth, mae'n golygu, yn gyntaf oll, na all neb fod yn agored i niwed, ni all neb ddweud, 'Dyma'r gwersi a ddysgasom, edrychwch ar y llanast a wnaethom draw yma, mae angen inni ei newid.' Ni all neb fod yn agored i niwed, rhaid i bawb fod yn wych drwy'r amser, yn enwedig er mwyn i Weinidogion weld eu bod yn wych iddynt allu cadw eu contractau, i barhau i wneud eu gwaith. Wel, os na allwch chi gael system sy'n fregus, ni fydd gennych ddiwylliannau sy'n dysgu sy'n gyflym ac yn ystwyth ac yn gallu addasu, oni bai eich bod chi'n camu tu allan i'r system yn llwyr ac yn barod i wneud rhywbeth arall. Yn wir, gwnaethom siarad â phobl a oedd wedi camu y tu allan i'r system yn gyfan gwbl, ac wedi dewis gwneud pethau y tu allan i'r system heb gymorth. Ac er clod iddynt, roeddent yn cyflawni pethau rhyfeddol ond ni allent ei ffitio i'r bocsys y dywedwyd wrthynt am ei wneud.

A chlywsom hefyd am y cyfyng-gyngor mawr lle roedd pobl yn dewis peidio â defnyddio gwasanaethau weithiau oherwydd eu bod yn teimlo ei bod yn well iddynt fod ar y strydoedd. Roedd hynny'n eithaf rhyfeddol. Byddai aelodau o'r cyhoedd allan yno, byddai fy etholwyr yn dweud, 'Does bosibl fod hynny'n iawn', ond clywsom am hyn. Clywsom gan un tyst, 'Y peth go iawn sy'n atal pobl rhag dod i mewn yw bod y cynnig sydd gennym o ran gwasanaethau yn llai na'r hyn y mae'r strydoedd yn ei gynnig.' Os ydych yn gaeth i sylwedd, mae gennych yr holl broblemau iechyd meddwl cymhleth hyn a phethau eraill—gallwch ddiffodd y boen yn eithaf hawdd â chyffur 'spice' neu heroin. Ni allwn gynnig hynny. Gallwch fod yn neb mewn fflat neu gallwch fod yn rhywun ar y strydoedd. Mae goblygiadau diwylliannol hefyd i bobl sydd wedi bod allan yno ers amser maith.

Mae hyn yn mynd y tu hwnt i benawdau'r papurau tabloid gyda'r pethau hyn—cymhlethdod hyn oll. Roeddwn yn hynod o falch o fod yn rhan o hyn. Rwy'n credu y bydd y grŵp gweithredu ar ddigartrefedd yn ymdrin â rhai o safbwyntiau derbyn mewn egwyddor y Gweinidog, ac yn cyflwyno rhai o'r atebion, rwy'n meddwl, oherwydd mae'n dal i fod yn waith ar y gweill. Mae llawer o waith da'n digwydd, Weinidog, ond rwy'n credu y bydd mynd i'r afael â hyn yn galw am waith ddydd ar ôl dydd, wythnos ar ôl wythnos, fis ar ôl mis, nes na fydd yn rhaid inni ddod yn ôl ymhen tair blynedd a dweud, 'Edrychwch eto ar yr hyn a nodwn.'

17:20

I would like to thank all those who took part in our inquiry and our excellent committee clerks for facilitating this follow-up inquiry into rough-sleeping, notwithstanding the passion for this subject shown by our Chair, John Griffiths, who has taken us to meet people with lived experience, which is very humbling.

We all know that we have a homelessness crisis and that the official figures greatly underestimate the number of people forced to sleep rough. We should feel ashamed that even one person is forced to sleep rough on our streets. It is morally reprehensible in the twenty-first century. Of course, the reasons for homelessness are varied and complicated, and are often far more complex than we can imagine. Not having a roof over your head and our follow-up focused upon rough-sleepers with co-occurring mental health and substance misuse issues. We must ensure that homeless people are treated when they go to seek help with the respect and the understanding that they deserve, so that they don't feel that it's an us and them approach. So, culture towards homeless people when they go to services seeking help must change.

It’s a shocking statistic that two thirds of deaths among the homeless are as a result of drug poisoning. When we look at the time an outreach worker has to talk to a person to build up a rapport and gain their trust, it equates to 2.5 minutes, and this is by far inadequate. This is why I was surprised that the Welsh Government did not unreservedly accept all of our recommendations, particularly recommendation 3. And while I am grateful that the Minister has accepted the principle of the recommendation, Welsh Government must do more to work with the UK Government to mitigate the harms from substance misuse.

I'm also disappointed that the Welsh Government is prepared to step back and hand the reins over to local government when it comes to driving cultural change. Our fourth recommendation was made because evidence was given to the committee that the main barrier to delivering truly integrated services was a lack of leadership and a silo approach. Although the Minister has said that she accepts the principle of our recommendation that Welsh Government takes a lead role in driving cultural change, in the same breath they indicate that Welsh local authorities are to step into that space occupied by Welsh Government direction in the past. This is not leadership, it's abdication. The last thing we need is 22 different approaches to integrated services. Part of the reason we have such a rough-sleeping crisis is because of different organisations taking different approaches. Co-occurring mental health and substance misuse get overlooked in the scramble to tackle the housing need. Public Health Wales told the committee that barriers exist within the health departments also. It is therefore vital that Welsh Government provide the leadership, direction and the funding in order tackle the complex issues surrounding rough-sleeping.

Unless there is clear direction from the top, we are not going to get anywhere and the successor to our committee will be discussing this issue once more in a few years' time. Welsh Government are very good at coming up with plans, but it's the delivery that counts. I really hope that this time is different because some of the most vulnerable people in our society are really depending upon us. Thank you.

Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a gymerodd ran yn ein hymchwiliad ac i'n clercod pwyllgor rhagorol am hwyluso'r ymchwiliad dilynol hwn i gysgu ar y stryd, heb sôn am angerdd ein Cadeirydd, John Griffiths, a aeth â ni i gyfarfod â phobl sydd â phrofiad o gysgu allan, sy'n gwneud i rywun deimlo'n ostyngedig iawn.

Gŵyr pawb ohonom fod gennym argyfwng digartrefedd a bod y ffigurau swyddogol yn tanamcangyfrif yn fawr nifer y bobl a orfodir i gysgu ar y stryd. Dylem deimlo cywilydd fod hyd yn oed un person yn gorfod cysgu allan ar ein strydoedd. Mae'n bechod moesol yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Wrth gwrs, mae'r rhesymau dros ddigartrefedd yn amrywiol ac yn gymhleth, ac yn aml yn llawer mwy cymhleth nag y gallwn ei ddychmygu. Peidio â chael to dros eich pen, a chanolbwyntiodd ein gwaith dilynol ar bobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd ac sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pobl ddigartref yn cael eu trin â'r parch a'r ddealltwriaeth y maent yn eu haeddu pan fyddant yn mynd i ofyn am gymorth, fel nad ydynt yn cael y teimlad o 'ni a nhw'. Felly, pan fydd pobl ddigartref yn mynd at wasanaethau i ofyn am help, rhaid i'r diwylliant tuag atynt newid.

Mae'n ystadegyn brawychus fod dwy ran o dair o farwolaethau ymysg y digartref yn deillio o wenwyn cyffuriau. Pan fyddwn yn edrych ar yr amser sydd gan weithiwr allgymorth i siarad â rhywun er mwyn meithrin perthynas ac ennill eu hymddiriedaeth, mae'n cyfateb i 2.5 munud, sy'n gwbl annigonol. Dyna pam y synnais na wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru dderbyn ein holl argymhellion yn ddiamod, yn enwedig argymhelliad 3. Ac er fy mod yn ddiolchgar fod y Gweinidog wedi derbyn egwyddor yr argymhelliad, rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud mwy i weithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU i liniaru niwed camddefnyddio sylweddau.

Rwyf hefyd yn siomedig fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn barod i gamu'n ôl ac estyn yr awenau i lywodraeth leol mewn perthynas â gyrru newid diwylliannol. Gwnaethpwyd ein pedwerydd argymhelliad am fod tystiolaeth wedi'i rhoi i'r pwyllgor mai'r prif rwystr i ddarparu gwasanaethau gwirioneddol integredig oedd diffyg arweiniad a dull seilo o weithredu. Er bod y Gweinidog wedi dweud ei bod yn derbyn egwyddor ein hargymhelliad y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fabwysiadu rôl arweiniol wrth hybu newid diwylliannol, yn yr un gwynt maent yn awgrymu y dylai awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru gamu i'r gofod lle roedd Llywodraeth Cymru'n darparu cyfeiriad yn y gorffennol. Nid arweinyddiaeth yw hyn, ond ymwrthod â chyfrifoldeb. Y peth diwethaf sydd ei angen arnom yw 22 dull gwahanol o ddarparu gwasanaethau integredig. Rhan o'r rheswm pam fod gennym y fath argyfwng cysgu allan yw oherwydd bod gwahanol gyrff yn mabwysiadu dulliau gwahanol o weithredu. Anwybyddir iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd yn yr ymdrech i fynd i'r afael â'r angen am dai. Dywedodd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wrth y pwyllgor fod rhwystrau'n bodoli o fewn yr adrannau iechyd hefyd. Felly, mae'n hanfodol fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu'r arweiniad, y cyfeiriad a'r cyllid er mwyn mynd i'r afael â'r problemau cymhleth sydd ynghlwm wrth gysgu allan.

Oni cheir cyfeiriad clir o'r brig, nid ydym yn mynd i gyrraedd unman a bydd olynydd ein pwyllgor yn trafod y broblem eto ymhen ychydig flynyddoedd. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dda iawn am gyflwyno cynlluniau, ond y ddarpariaeth sy'n bwysig. Rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr fod y tro hwn yn wahanol gan fod rhai o'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas yn dibynnu arnom mewn gwirionedd. Diolch.

17:25

I'm very pleased to take part in this debate and I commend the work of the committee under John’s leadership. To me, reading this, and I have to say, Caroline’s just sat down and warned us that if we don't act, in 20 years’ time we'll be going around the same racecourse, well, I kind of feel that 20 years ago we were discussing a lot of these issues, perhaps not focused on homelessness and rough-sleeping particularly, but the whole issue, really, of what this report goes to, and that’s a plea for leadership and more integrated, imaginative services, particularly for the most vulnerable in society. So, I do hope that we can move forward very, very quickly.

As you see in the report, presently, key stakeholders feel that there are barriers against achieving integration, and when you're tackling rough-sleeping, one thing you do need is a very integrated approach because of the complexity of the issue. One witness even went so far as to claim that innovation was not welcomed in many of the public services in Wales, and I do find that disturbing. Another witness from Public Health Wales told the committee that, and I now quote:

'there's a different culture within substance misuse and within formal mental health services…there is a paucity…of joined-up leadership at the very senior level'.

That is exactly what we must see an end of and we must move to opening up our services to the ideas that will lead to the very highest outcomes. I think at the heart of these frustrations is what is sometimes a rather weak commissioning process, and poor practices, lack of training, and I particularly welcome the committee’s call for an urgent review of commissioning by the Welsh Government. I do think that that has much merit.

I suppose one way to progress at the moment is to ask ourselves, 'What would effective commissioning for services to tackle rough-sleeping look like?' Well, as I hinted earlier, it would look like effective commissioning in some other areas, but perhaps it’s not as common as we expect; pooled budgets between various services; long-term commissioning so that we know that there is that service we need with the security that it’s going to be there for the long term and that people can then be referred into; integrated services; and the encouragement of innovation. These things need to be at the heart of an effective commissioning process.

This is, of course, challenging. It’s easier to do this piecemeal and just look after your particular patch, but to tackle homelessness, a wide-ranging approach is absolutely vital. It does require courage and bold approaches, for instance—and I welcome the report meeting some of these subjects, which are very sensitive, and meeting them head on and talking about them—co-ordinated detox services, covering alcohol and drug misuse, and connected to mental health services; considering safe rooms for the use of drugs; assertive outreach, and that means, you know, when our outreach workers are there making contact with rough-sleepers that there is a real grip and sense of purpose about where they need to move these vulnerable people on into a more structured lifestyle and how to get that going. 

Housing First models: again, this concept that you need to be in a home first before you can have greater stability, and that we basically will not evict highly vulnerable people ever. We may move them on or put more support in, but we won't evict. Integrated homelessness action plans: we talked a bit about this in yesterday's statement on the housing support grant, and I welcome this. I think this is the Welsh Government recognising what needs to be co-ordinated at the local and regional level, but we've really got to see implementation, and see it very, very quickly. Then suitable housing options into which these most vulnerable people can be referred, and there'll be a range of models that are necessary there, some of them perhaps catering to very specific needs, such as former veterans or people who have more recently left the armed services and found it very difficult to connect back into civil life. 

So, I'm pleased that we're discussing this this afternoon. I think it's a really good piece of work, and I do hope the Welsh Government will be taking it forward and responding to the excellent recommendations with real force and commitment. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. 

Rwy'n falch iawn o gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon ac rwy'n cymeradwyo gwaith y pwyllgor o dan arweinyddiaeth John. I mi, o ddarllen hyn, ac mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, mae Caroline newydd eistedd a'n rhybuddio, os na fyddwn yn gweithredu, ymhen 20 mlynedd byddwn yn mynd o gwmpas yr un cae ras, wel, teimlaf ein bod yn trafod llawer o'r problemau hyn 20 mlynedd yn ôl, efallai heb ganolbwyntio ar ddigartrefedd a chysgu allan yn benodol, ond holl fater yr hyn y mae'r adroddiad hwn yn ymdrin ag ef, sef apêl am arweinyddiaeth a gwasanaethau mwy integredig, dychmygus, yn enwedig ar gyfer y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed mewn cymdeithas. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn symud ymlaen yn gyflym iawn.

Fel y gwelwch yn yr adroddiad ar hyn o bryd, mae rhanddeiliaid allweddol yn teimlo bod rhwystrau rhag gallu integreiddio, a phan fyddwch yn mynd i'r afael â chysgu ar y stryd, un peth sydd ei angen arnoch yw dull integredig iawn oherwydd cymhlethdod y broblem. Roedd un tyst wedi mynd mor bell â honni nad oedd croeso i arloesi mewn llawer o'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n ystyried hynny'n ofidus. Dywedodd tyst arall o Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wrth y pwyllgor, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:

mae diwylliant gwahanol o fewn gwasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau ac o fewn gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ffurfiol... ceir prinder arweinyddiaeth gydgysylltiedig ar y lefel uchaf.

Dyna'n union y mae'n rhaid inni ei weld yn dod i ben a rhaid inni symud tuag at agor ein gwasanaethau i'r syniadau a fydd yn arwain at y canlyniadau gorau un. Yn fy marn i, yr hyn sydd wrth wraidd y rhwystredigaeth yw'r broses gomisiynu sy'n eithaf gwan weithiau, ac arferion gwael, diffyg hyfforddiant, ac yn arbennig, rwy'n croesawu galwad y pwyllgor am adolygiad ar frys o gomisiynu gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Credaf fod llawer o rinweddau i hynny.

Mae'n debyg mai un ffordd o symud ymlaen ar hyn o bryd yw drwy ofyn i ni ein hunain, 'Sut beth fyddai comisiynu effeithiol ar gyfer gwasanaethau i fynd i'r afael â chysgu ar y stryd?' Wel, fel yr awgrymais yn gynharach, byddai'n debyg i gomisiynu effeithiol mewn meysydd eraill, ond efallai nad yw mor gyffredin ag y disgwyliwn; cyllidebau cyfun rhwng gwahanol wasanaethau; comisiynu hirdymor fel ein bod yn gwybod bod gennym y gwasanaeth sydd ei angen arnom gyda'r sicrwydd y bydd yno'n hirdymor ac y gellir cyfeirio pobl ato wedyn; gwasanaethau integredig; ac annog arloesedd. Mae angen i'r pethau hyn fod yn ganolog i broses gomisiynu effeithiol.

Mae hyn yn her wrth gwrs. Mae'n haws ei wneud fesul tipyn ac edrych ar ôl eich maes penodol chi'n unig, ond i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd, mae ymagwedd eang yn gwbl hanfodol. Mae'n gofyn am ddulliau dewr a beiddgar, er enghraifft—ac rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod yr adroddiad yn trafod rhai o'r pynciau hyn, sy'n sensitif iawn, ac yn mynd benben â hwy ac yn siarad amdanynt—gwasanaethau dadwenwyno cydgysylltiedig, sy'n ymdrin â chamddefnyddio alcohol a chyffuriau, ac yn gysylltiedig â gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl; ystyried ystafelloedd diogel ar gyfer defnyddio cyffuriau; allgymorth grymusol, ac mae hynny'n golygu, wyddoch chi, pan fydd ein gweithwyr allgymorth yno'n cysylltu â phobl sy'n cysgu allan, fod yna wir ddealltwriaeth ac ymdeimlad o bwrpas ynglŷn â lle mae angen iddynt symud y bobl hyn sy'n agored i niwed i sicrhau ffordd o fyw fwy strwythuredig a sut i gael hynny i ddigwydd.  

Modelau Tai yn Gyntaf: unwaith eto, y cysyniad hwn fod angen ichi fod mewn cartref yn gyntaf cyn y gallwch gael mwy o sefydlogrwydd, ac yn sylfaenol, na fyddwn byth yn troi pobl agored i niwed allan. Efallai y byddwn yn eu symud yn eu blaenau neu'n rhoi mwy o gymorth iddynt, ond ni fyddwn yn eu troi allan. Cynlluniau gweithredu digartrefedd integredig: buom yn siarad ychydig am hyn yn y datganiad ddoe ar y grant cymorth tai, ac rwy'n croesawu hyn. Rwy'n credu mai Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydnabod yr hyn y mae angen ei gydgysylltu ar lefel leol a rhanbarthol yw hyn, ond mae'n rhaid inni ei weld yn cael ei weithredu, a'i weld yn gyflym iawn. Yna opsiynau tai addas y gellir cyfeirio'r bobl hyn sydd fwyaf agored i niwed atynt, a bydd amrywiaeth o fodelau angenrheidiol yno, gyda rhai ohonynt efallai'n darparu ar gyfer anghenion penodol iawn, megis cyn-filwyr neu bobl sydd wedi gadael y gwasanaethau arfog yn ddiweddar ac wedi'i chael hi'n anodd iawn addasu'n ôl i fywyd sifil.  

Felly, rwy'n falch ein bod ni'n trafod hyn y prynhawn yma. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn waith da iawn, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwrw ymlaen ag ef ac yn ymateb i'r argymhellion rhagorol gyda grym ac ymrwymiad gwirioneddol. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.  

17:30

Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Julie James?

Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol, Julie James?

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Firstly, I'd like to thank the committee for all of the very hard work and for giving me the opportunity to respond to this important debate in the Chamber today. I'd also like to place on record my thanks, and those of the Minister for Health and Social Services, to all of those who contributed to the work of the committee, but very particularly those with lived experience who took the time to engage with the committee and those who support rough-sleepers on a daily basis for sharing their views and their experiences with the committee. It's been so very valuable, I think, in coming to the very important recommendations the committee has made.

As we've discussed on numerous occasions, both in this Chamber and in committee sessions, rough-sleeping continues to be an endemic issue across Wales. Members are, of course, aware that the national rough-sleeper count for 2019 was published last week and that many local authorities reported an increase across a two-week period as well as an increase on the night of the count. As I set out in my written statement last week, this is extremely disappointing but is not, unfortunately, surprising.

Whilst the data reported can only provide a very broad indication, we can see for ourselves on far too many streets in both rural and urban areas across Wales that rough-sleeping remains a persistent and growing issue. I set out to this Chamber in October last year my acknowledgement of the need to look afresh at how to achieve the goal of ending homelessness in all its forms, including ending any need at all for anyone to sleep on the streets. This is precisely why we published a new strategy for preventing and ending homelessness last year and established the expert homelessness action group to work at pace to advise on how best to achieve this goal. It is precisely why we have protected homelessness budgets, including the vital £126 million that goes into the housing support grant. Deputy Presiding Officer, only yesterday in the Chamber, I introduced the new guidance on the housing support grant, which addresses many of the commissioning priorities that Members have set out today about the way that services are commissioned, and I really very much hope will address some of the concerns that people have expressed in the Chamber today. 

I will just say one thing, though, on long-term commissioning: I completely agree with that—I think David and Mark Isherwood mentioned it—but they could do us a big favour in assisting us with the UK Government giving us more than a one-year budget, because obviously it's very hard for us to do commissioning over longer than one year when our own budget is on an annual basis. So, I do think some cross-party work in persuading the UK Government to help us with that would be very much appreciated, as we absolutely accept that longer term commissioning would be beneficial in this and many other sectors. 

The work of the committee in examining rough-sleeping and the complex relationship between substance misuse, mental health and housing need provides a useful evidence base to take this work forward. Rough-sleeping, as we all know, is the most acute form of homelessness, and, as well as supporting those at this crisis end off the streets and into suitable accommodation, we also recognise the importance of investing in early intervention and prevention to tackle the root causes of homelessness. This includes continuing to invest and improve health services. For example, we know that improving the mental health and well-being of young people has a direct impact on the numbers of young people falling into homelessness. It is worth noting that Welsh Government continues to spend more on mental health services than any other part of the NHS. Our recent announcement in the draft budget to commit a further £20 million to mental health services, raising the mental health ring fence to £712 million, demonstrates our continued commitment to improving these services. 

In response to those talking about the substance misuse tier 4 issues and other issues—just to point out that we are currently tendering for a contract on an all-Wales substance misuse residential rehabilitation framework, which will provide a new list of approved residential rehabilitation and detoxification service providers. In addition, we wrote to all directors of social services to remind them of their responsibilities for social care assessments and funding for that residential rehabilitation ahead of the introduction of the new framework, and to ensure that sufficient funding is provided not only from commissioned substance misuse services but from wider sources across the public service. 

The links between substance misuse, mental health and issues with accommodation are widely recognised, with both acknowledged as possible cause and consequence of the other. Our response has to be centred on the needs of the individual, and I fully agree with the committee on the need for an integrated service and multi-agency approach to most effectively supporting people. We have been working across Government for some time to jointly take forward this work. Both the published substance misuse delivery plan 2019-22 and the mental health delivery plan 2019-22 have specific actions to address many of the recommendations made by the committee regarding rough-sleeping and access to mental health and substance misuse services. Close working is under way across departments to ensure the actions within these plans support the strategy for preventing and ending homelessness. 

Co-occurring substance misuse and mental health is a priority in both of the delivery plans, and we have, I think, as Mark Isherwood mentioned, established the deep-dive group to examine the barriers to responding more effectively to co-occurring mental health and substance misuse issues, as I am acutely aware that many challenges remain. The group is made up of a range of experts, including policy experts, commissioners and practitioners, including both health and housing, to support that work. I'm very happy to report back to the committee once we've got that piece of work from that group. 

And, in addition, work is being taken forward as part of the partnership agreement for prison health, which includes a specific focus on substance misuse and mental health, and improving transfer of care on release. The partnership agreement is being supported by Welsh Government investing an additional £1 million into primary health services in the prisons. As referenced in both the mental health and substance misuse delivery plans, Welsh Government has also invested £1.3 million in new services for people with housing and complex needs, with a focus on supporting Housing First. This funding is specifically aimed at developing integrated services, working with the hardest to reach and improving access to support for both mental health and substance misuse support and treatment. 

The committee rightly highlighted the potential Housing First has, not just in relation to helping people into accommodation, but also in providing the stability that can make it far easier for someone to tackle their other issues, like substance misuse or mental ill health. I have previously set out that Housing First needs to be part of a wider rapid rehousing approach, as it is intended for those with the most complex needs—precisely the individuals this committee report most focuses on. It has worked around the world and it is working here in Wales. The first two people who entered the Salvation Army project in Cardiff are still in accommodation two years after joining the project in late 2017. Both individuals had a history of rough-sleeping over a number of years prior to their entry into that project. 

All our evidence shows that Housing First takes time. Support workers need time to develop a relationship with people who have often felt let down by the system and have disengaged from society, to earn enough trust with them to agree to even join the project. They need time to ensure that the correct decisions are made, such as the type of tenure, type and location of property, to work with housing associations and private landlords to find that property. And, crucially, time needs to be invested by the support worker after someone has entered accommodation to help them face life's challenges and ensure they receive the support they need to thrive in any accommodation.

The projects we are invested in are succeeding and we recognise health services are an absolutely integral element in ensuring they succeed. As at the end of December, 40 people were sustaining accommodation in one of the seven Housing First projects that we fund directly. Another 21 were in temporary accommodation awaiting a match to a suitable property, and that is 61 people, all of whom had a history of rough-sleeping and either mental health or substance misuse—or, more often, co-occurring issues—that would likely otherwise be sleeping rough tonight. 

As a Government, Deputy Presiding Officer, we will continue to take forward the complete public service response required to achieve the goal of ending homelessness and to recognise the key roles of health and housing in leading this important work. Diolch. 

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am yr holl waith caled ac am roi cyfle i mi ymateb i'r ddadl bwysig hon yn y Siambr heddiw. Hoffwn innau hefyd gofnodi fy niolch, a diolch y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, i bawb a gyfrannodd at waith y pwyllgor, ond yn enwedig y rhai â phrofiad bywyd a roddodd o'u hamser i ymgysylltu â'r pwyllgor a'r rhai sy'n cynorthwyo pobl sy'n cysgu allan yn ddyddiol am rannu eu barn a'u profiadau gyda'r pwyllgor. Mae wedi bod mor werthfawr wrth lunio'r argymhellion pwysig iawn a wnaeth y pwyllgor.

Fel rydym wedi trafod droeon, yn y Siambr hon ac mewn sesiynau pwyllgor, mae cysgu ar y stryd yn parhau i fod yn broblem endemig ledled Cymru. Mae'r Aelodau, wrth gwrs, yn ymwybodol fod y cyfrif cenedlaethol o'r nifer sy'n cysgu ar y stryd ar gyfer 2019 wedi ei gyhoeddi yr wythnos diwethaf a bod llawer o awdurdodau lleol wedi cofnodi cynnydd dros gyfnod o bythefnos yn ogystal â chynnydd ar noson y cyfrif. Fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig yr wythnos diwethaf, mae hyn yn hynod o siomedig, ond nid yw'n syndod, gwaetha'r modd.

Er mai dim ond darlun cyffredinol iawn y gall y data a gofnodwyd ei ddarparu, gallwn weld drosom ein hunain ar lawer gormod o strydoedd mewn ardaloedd gwledig a threfol ledled Cymru fod cysgu ar y stryd yn parhau i fod yn broblem barhaus a chynyddol. Cyflwynais i'r Siambr hon ym mis Hydref y llynedd fy nghydnabyddiaeth o'r angen i edrych o'r newydd ar sut i gyrraedd y nod o roi terfyn ar ddigartrefedd yn ei holl ffurfiau, gan gynnwys rhoi terfyn ar unrhyw angen i unrhyw un gysgu ar y strydoedd. Dyma'n union pam y gwnaethom gyhoeddi strategaeth newydd ar gyfer atal a rhoi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd y llynedd a sefydlu'r grŵp gweithredu arbenigol ar ddigartrefedd i weithio'n gyflym i roi cyngor ar y ffordd orau o gyflawni'r nod hwn. Dyna'n union pam ein bod wedi diogelu cyllidebau digartrefedd, gan gynnwys y £126 miliwn hanfodol sy'n mynd i mewn i'r grant cymorth tai. Ddirprwy Lywydd, ddoe ddiwethaf yn y Siambr, cyflwynais y canllawiau newydd ar y grant cymorth tai, sy'n mynd i'r afael â llawer o'r blaenoriaethau comisiynu y mae Aelodau wedi'u nodi heddiw ynghylch y ffordd y comisiynir gwasanaethau, ac rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr y byddant yn ateb rhai o'r pryderon y mae pobl wedi'u mynegi yn y Siambr heddiw.  

Rwyf am ddweud un peth am gomisiynu hirdymor er hynny: rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny—credaf fod David a Mark Isherwood wedi sôn amdano—ond gallent wneud ffafr fawr â ni drwy ein cynorthwyo i gael Llywodraeth y DU i roi mwy na chyllideb un flwyddyn inni, oherwydd yn amlwg mae'n anodd iawn inni gomisiynu dros gyfnod hwy na blwyddyn pan fydd ein cyllideb ein hunain ar sail flynyddol. Felly, rwy'n credu y byddem yn gwerthfawrogi rhywfaint o waith trawsbleidiol yn perswadio Llywodraeth y DU i'n helpu gyda hynny, gan ein bod yn derbyn yn llwyr y byddai comisiynu mwy hirdymor yn fuddiol yn hyn o beth ac mewn llawer o sectorau eraill.

Mae gwaith y pwyllgor yn archwilio cysgu allan a'r berthynas gymhleth rhwng camddefnyddio sylweddau, iechyd meddwl ac anghenion tai yn darparu sylfaen dystiolaeth ddefnyddiol i fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith hwn. Cysgu allan, fel y gwyddom i gyd, yw'r math mwyaf difrifol o ddigartrefedd, ac yn ogystal â chefnogi'r rhai sy'n wynebu'r argyfwng i ddod oddi ar y strydoedd ac i lety addas, rydym hefyd yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd buddsoddi mewn ymyrraeth gynnar ac atal i fynd i'r afael ag achosion sylfaenol digartrefedd. Mae hyn yn cynnwys parhau i fuddsoddi a gwella gwasanaethau iechyd. Er enghraifft, gwyddom fod gwella iechyd meddwl a lles pobl ifanc yn effeithio'n uniongyrchol ar nifer y bobl ifanc sy'n mynd yn ddigartref. Mae'n werth nodi bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i wario mwy ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl nag unrhyw ran arall o'r GIG. Mae ein cyhoeddiad diweddar yn y gyllideb ddrafft i ymrwymo £20 miliwn pellach i wasanaethau iechyd meddwl, gan godi'r arian a glustnodwyd ar gyfer iechyd meddwl i £712 miliwn, yn dangos ein hymrwymiad parhaus i wella'r gwasanaethau hyn.  

Mewn ymateb i'r rhai a oedd yn sôn am broblemau camddefnyddio sylweddau haen 4 a phroblemau eraill—nodaf ein bod yn tendro ar hyn o bryd am gontract ar gyfer fframwaith adsefydlu preswyl camddefnyddio sylweddau i Gymru gyfan a fydd yn darparu rhestr newydd o ddarparwyr gwasanaethau preswyl ar gyfer adsefydlu a dadwenwyno. Yn ogystal, rydym wedi ysgrifennu at yr holl gyfarwyddwyr gwasanaethau cymdeithasol i'w hatgoffa am eu cyfrifoldebau mewn perthynas ag asesiadau gofal cymdeithasol a chyllid ar gyfer adsefydlu preswyl cyn cyflwyno'r fframwaith newydd, ac i sicrhau y darperir digon o arian nid yn unig o wasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau wedi'u comisiynu ond o ffynonellau ehangach ar draws y gwasanaeth cyhoeddus.  

Cydnabyddir yn eang y cysylltiadau rhwng camddefnyddio sylweddau, iechyd meddwl a phroblemau gyda llety, ac mae'r naill a'r llall yn cael eu cydnabod fel achos a chanlyniad posibl i'w gilydd. Rhaid i'n hymateb ganolbwyntio ar anghenion yr unigolyn, a chytunaf yn llwyr â'r pwyllgor ynghylch yr angen am wasanaeth integredig a dull amlasiantaethol i gynorthwyo pobl yn y modd mwyaf effeithiol. Rydym wedi bod yn gweithio ar draws y Llywodraeth ers cryn amser i fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith hwn ar y cyd. Mae gan y cynllun cyflawni ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer 2019-22 a'r cynllun cyflawni ar gyfer iechyd meddwl 2019-22 gamau penodol i fynd i'r afael â llawer o'r argymhellion a wnaed gan y pwyllgor ynghylch cysgu allan a mynediad at wasanaethau iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau. Mae cydweithio agos yn digwydd ar draws adrannau i sicrhau bod y camau yn y cynlluniau hyn yn cefnogi'r strategaeth ar gyfer atal a rhoi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd.  

Mae iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd yn flaenoriaeth yn y ddau gynllun cyflawni, ac fel y soniodd Mark Isherwood, rwy'n credu ein bod wedi sefydlu'r grŵp at wraidd y mater i archwilio'r rhwystrau rhag gallu ymateb yn fwy effeithiol i broblemau iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau sy'n cyd-ddigwydd, am fy mod yn ymwybodol iawn fod llawer o heriau o hyd. Mae'r grŵp yn cynnwys amrywiaeth o arbenigwyr, gan gynnwys arbenigwyr polisi, comisiynwyr ac ymarferwyr, yn cynnwys iechyd a thai, i gefnogi'r gwaith. Rwy'n hapus iawn i adrodd yn ôl i'r pwyllgor pan fyddwn wedi cael y gwaith hwnnw gan y grŵp.  

Ac yn ogystal, mae gwaith yn mynd rhagddo fel rhan o'r cytundeb partneriaeth ar gyfer iechyd yn y carchardai, sy'n cynnwys ffocws penodol ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau ac iechyd meddwl, a gwella'r broses o drosglwyddo gofal ar ôl rhyddhau o'r carchar. Cefnogir y cytundeb partneriaeth drwy fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn buddsoddi £1 filiwn ychwanegol mewn gwasanaethau iechyd sylfaenol yn y carchardai. Fel y nodwyd yn y cynllun cyflawni ar gyfer iechyd meddwl a'r cynllun cyflawni ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau, mae Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd wedi buddsoddi £1.3 miliwn mewn gwasanaethau newydd i bobl ag anghenion tai ac anghenion cymhleth, gan ganolbwyntio ar gefnogi Tai yn Gyntaf. Mae'r cyllid hwn wedi'i anelu'n benodol at ddatblygu gwasanaethau integredig, gan weithio gyda'r rhai anoddaf eu cyrraedd a gwella mynediad at gymorth a thriniaeth iechyd meddwl a chamddefnyddio sylweddau.  

Tynnodd y pwyllgor sylw'n briodol at botensial Tai yn Gyntaf, nid yn unig o ran helpu pobl i gael llety, ond hefyd o ran darparu'r sefydlogrwydd a all ei gwneud yn llawer haws i rywun fynd i'r afael â phroblemau eraill, fel camddefnyddio sylweddau neu salwch meddwl. Nodais yn flaenorol fod angen i Tai yn Gyntaf fod yn rhan o ddull ehangach o ailgartrefu'n gyflym, fel y bwriadwyd iddo fod ar gyfer y rhai sydd â'r anghenion mwyaf cymhleth—yr union unigolion y mae'r adroddiad pwyllgor hwn yn canolbwyntio fwyaf arnynt. Mae wedi gweithio ledled y byd ac mae'n gweithio yma yng Nghymru. Mae'r ddau gyntaf a aeth i mewn i brosiect Byddin yr Iachawdwriaeth yng Nghaerdydd yn dal mewn llety ddwy flynedd ar ôl ymuno â'r prosiect ar ddiwedd 2017. Roedd gan y ddau unigolyn hanes o gysgu ar y stryd dros nifer o flynyddoedd cyn iddynt ymuno â'r prosiect hwnnw.  

Mae ein holl dystiolaeth yn dangos bod Tai yn Gyntaf yn cymryd amser. Mae angen amser ar weithwyr cymorth i feithrin perthynas â phobl sy'n aml wedi cael eu siomi gan y system ac sydd wedi ymddieithrio o gymdeithas, i feithrin digon o ymddiriedaeth ynddynt i gytuno i ymuno â'r prosiect hyd yn oed. Mae angen amser arnynt i sicrhau bod y penderfyniadau cywir yn cael eu gwneud, megis y math o ddeiliadaeth, math o eiddo a'i leoliad, i weithio gyda chymdeithasau tai a landlordiaid preifat i ddod o hyd i'r eiddo hwnnw. Ac yn hollbwysig, mae angen i'r gweithiwr cymorth fuddsoddi amser ar ôl i rywun fynd i'r llety i'w helpu i wynebu heriau bywyd a sicrhau eu bod yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt i ffynnu mewn unrhyw lety.

Mae'r prosiectau rydym yn buddsoddi ynddynt yn llwyddo ac rydym yn cydnabod bod gwasanaethau iechyd yn elfen gwbl hanfodol o sicrhau eu llwyddiant. Erbyn diwedd mis Rhagfyr, roedd 40 o bobl yn dal i fod mewn llety yn un o'r saith prosiect Tai yn Gyntaf a ariannwn yn uniongyrchol. Roedd 21 arall mewn llety dros dro yn aros i ddod o hyd i eiddo addas, sy'n 61 o bobl, ac roedd gan bob un ohonynt hanes o gysgu ar y stryd a phroblemau iechyd meddwl neu gamddefnyddio sylweddau—neu'r ddau'n cyd-ddigwydd yn amlach na pheidio—pobl a fyddai fel arall yn debygol o fod yn cysgu allan heno.  

Fel Llywodraeth, Ddirprwy Lywydd, byddwn yn parhau i ddatblygu'r ymateb cyflawn gan y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus sydd ei angen i gyflawni'r nod o ddod â digartrefedd i ben ac i gydnabod rolau allweddol y maes iechyd a'r maes tai yn arwain y gwaith pwysig hwn. Diolch.  

17:35

Thank you. Can I now call on John Griffiths to reply to the debate? 

Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar John Griffiths i ymateb i'r ddadl?

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. May I start by thanking everybody who took part? There is obviously a strong degree of consensus across the Chamber, I think, in terms of the importance of these issues and the need to try and make sufficient progress so that, in years to come, as a number of Members said, we're not having more or less the same debate in the same circumstances. We need to move on and to make substantial progress.

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A gaf fi ddechrau drwy ddiolch i bawb a gymerodd ran? Mae'n amlwg fod cryn gonsensws ar draws y Siambr, rwy'n credu, o ran pwysigrwydd y materion hyn a'r angen i geisio gwneud digon o gynnydd fel na chawn yr un ddadl fwy neu lai yn yr un amgylchiadau yn y blynyddoedd a ddaw, fel y dywedodd nifer o'r Aelodau. Mae angen inni symud ymlaen a gwneud cynnydd sylweddol.

I very much agree with the point that Delyth Jewell made as well—if the UK is the fifth, sixth, whatever biggest economy in the world then it's totally immoral not to have a much better way of organising ourselves as a society in order to avoid these incredibly stark problems that so many people in the public are very shocked by. The number of people that have said to me that they just cannot understand why it's not possible to organise services and organise society in a way that avoids the extent of rough-sleeping that we currently see in our towns and cities—and, as the Minister pointed out, obviously, there are also issues in rural areas; it's not just an urban problem, although that's where the preponderance of the problem lies. So, we really need to find better ways forward.

I think what Mark Isherwood said about people needing to be given the chance to want to make the necessary change is really important, and that's why assertive outreach is very significant, because that word 'stickability' I think is very important. Services and those providing the services need to stick with those sleeping rough so that they are there when that opportunity comes along; when that person is ready to make the necessary change, there is somebody there to guide them and to make sure that they do take the opportunities available at that time. Obviously, if people aren't there with them around that time, then that window of opportunity may be lost, and the people may never make that change. As we heard earlier, it's absolutely shocking to think that 34 people died sleeping rough on the streets in Wales in 2018. Every life saved obviously is absolutely priceless, so we really do need to make assertive outreach an ever more important part of the service that we provide.

It is very wide-ranging and complex in terms of the issues involved, as Members stated. Mark Isherwood was talking about schools recognising issues and problems as young people go through the system. There are many conditions, such as Asperger's and autism, that are related. Young people with mental health issues need to have those problems recognised and addressed at the earliest possible opportunity.

I think much of what the Minister said was about that preventative approach that we need to make more of a feature in our services. So many Members on the committee spoke about the power of lived experience and actually hearing first hand from people sleeping rough, as well as those providing the services to them, what their experiences are and what they think will make the difference. As Huw Irranca-Davies said, there cannot be a wrong door. Wherever people sleeping rough may make contact with services, they have to be connected with whatever services they need to address their issues. They cannot simply be referred on to another agency, another person.

I think the drugs issues are significant, and the non-devolved aspects. I would urge Welsh Government to work very closely with the UK to bottom out, really, to what extent we could have safe rooms for injecting for drug use, whether that's possible within the devolved powers that we have, or whether we do need further devolution, further understanding, to make that happen. I do think it's quite instructive that the police forces in Wales are very interested in making that change and they see real advantages were that to come about.

I think David Melding—and it's always good to have people who are not on the committee at the moment making contributions on committee reports—made some very interesting points around commissioning. To what extent is it possible to be innovative, to truly integrate services, to have pooled budgets, to move on to a long-term approach within the current commissioning arrangements? It does seem to be weak at the moment, and, yes, we do need an urgent review. I heard what the Minister said about Housing First and the important progress made there, and also the housing support grant and how that might drive some aspects of necessary change, but I really do think we need to have a full review of all of those matters.

The Minister also mentioned prison services, and that's a significant part of building partnerships and making sure that no aspect of service delivery, devolved or non-devolved, is neglected in any way. The action group is a very significant development, as I mentioned in my opening speech, and we're very pleased as a committee about that. We'd be very interested to see how the Minister responds to the recommendation and takes the suggested work forward.

So, I think this is such an important set of issues, Dirprwy Lywydd, it's exactly why our committee has not just devoted quite an amount of time and work to these matters, but has returned to them. I think our commitment to the sector and to those sleeping rough is that, as a committee, we are not going to walk away from these matters; we are going to show that stickability that we urge on others. We will return to these matters, and we will continue to hold Welsh Government to account.

Cytunaf yn llwyr â'r pwynt a wnaeth Delyth Jewell hefyd—os mai'r DU yw'r pumed, y chweched, neu ba bynnag economi fwyaf yn y byd, mae'n hollol anfoesol peidio â chael dull llawer gwell o drefnu ein hunain fel cymdeithas er mwyn osgoi'r problemau eithriadol o ddifrifol hyn sy'n peri cymaint o syndod i gymaint o'r cyhoedd. Mae cynifer o bobl wedi dweud wrthyf na allant ddeall pam nad yw'n bosibl trefnu gwasanaethau a threfnu cymdeithas mewn ffordd sy'n osgoi'r holl gysgu allan a welwn yn ein trefi a'n dinasoedd ar hyn o bryd—ac fel y nododd y Gweinidog, yn amlwg, mae problemau'n codi mewn ardaloedd gwledig hefyd; nid problem drefol yn unig yw hon, er mai dyna lle mae'r broblem ar ei gwaethaf. Felly, mae gwir angen inni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd gwell o symud ymlaen.

Credaf fod yr hyn a ddywedodd Mark Isherwood am yr angen i roi cyfle i bobl fod eisiau gwneud y newid angenrheidiol yn bwysig iawn, a dyna pam y mae allgymorth grymusol yn arwyddocaol iawn, oherwydd mae dygnu arni yn y fath fodd yn bwysig iawn yn fy marn i. Mae angen i wasanaethau a'r rhai sy'n darparu'r gwasanaethau ddygnu arni gyda'r rhai sy'n cysgu allan er mwyn iddynt fod yno pan ddaw'r cyfle hwnnw; pan fydd y person hwnnw'n barod i wneud y newid angenrheidiol, mae rhywun yno i'w harwain ac i wneud yn siŵr eu bod yn manteisio ar y cyfleoedd sydd ar gael ar y pryd. Yn amlwg, os nad yw pobl yno gyda hwy tua'r adeg honno, mae'n bosibl y collir y cyfle hwnnw, ac efallai na fydd pobl byth yn gwneud y newid. Fel y clywsom yn gynharach, mae'n gwbl warthus meddwl bod 34 o bobl wedi marw yn cysgu ar y stryd yng Nghymru yn 2018. Mae pob bywyd a achubir yn amlwg yn gwbl amhrisiadwy, felly mae gwir angen inni wneud allgymorth grymusol yn rhan bwysicach eto o'r gwasanaeth a ddarparwn.

Mae'n fater eang iawn ei gwmpas a chymhleth iawn o ran y problemau sy'n gysylltiedig ag ef, fel y dywedodd yr Aelodau. Soniodd Mark Isherwood am ysgolion yn nodi problemau wrth i bobl ifanc fynd drwy'r system. Ceir llawer o gyflyrau, megis syndrom Asperger ac awtistiaeth, sy'n gysylltiedig. Mae angen i bobl ifanc â phroblemau iechyd meddwl gael y problemau hynny wedi'u cydnabod a'u trin ar y cyfle cyntaf posibl.

Credaf fod llawer o'r hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog yn ymwneud â'r dull ataliol sydd ei angen arnom yn amlach yn ein gwasanaethau. Soniodd cynifer o aelodau'r pwyllgor am bŵer profiad bywyd a chlywed yn uniongyrchol gan bobl sy'n cysgu allan, yn ogystal â'r rhai sy'n darparu'r gwasanaethau iddynt, beth yw eu profiadau a beth fydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth yn eu tyb hwy. Fel y dywedodd Huw Irranca-Davies, ni all fod drws anghywir. Lle bynnag y bydd pobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd yn cysylltu â gwasanaethau, rhaid eu cysylltu â pha wasanaethau bynnag sydd eu hangen arnynt i fynd i'r afael â'u problemau. Rhaid gwneud mwy na dim ond eu hatgyfeirio at asiantaeth arall, at berson arall.

Rwy'n credu bod y problemau cyffuriau'n sylweddol, a'r agweddau sydd heb eu datganoli. Hoffwn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i weithio'n agos iawn gyda'r DU i sefydlu i ba raddau y gallem gael ystafelloedd diogel ar gyfer chwistrellu cyffuriau, a yw hynny'n bosibl o fewn y pwerau datganoledig sydd gennym, neu a oes angen datganoli pellach arnom, dealltwriaeth bellach, er mwyn sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn eithaf dadlennol fod gan yr heddluoedd yng Nghymru ddiddordeb mawr mewn gwneud y newid hwnnw ac maent yn gweld y byddai manteision gwirioneddol yn deillio o hynny pe bai'n digwydd.

Credaf fod David Melding—ac mae bob amser yn dda cael pobl nad ydynt ar y pwyllgor ar hyn o bryd yn cyfrannu ar adroddiadau pwyllgorau—wedi gwneud pwyntiau diddorol iawn ynghylch comisiynu. I ba raddau y mae'n bosibl bod yn arloesol, i integreiddio gwasanaethau go iawn, i gael cyllidebau cyfunol, i symud ymlaen at ddull gweithredu hirdymor o fewn y trefniadau comisiynu presennol? Mae'n ymddangos yn wan ar hyn o bryd, ac oes, mae angen adolygiad ar frys arnom. Clywais yr hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog am Tai yn Gyntaf a'r cynnydd pwysig a wnaethpwyd yno, a hefyd y grant cymorth tai a sut y gallai hwnnw ysgogi rhai agweddau ar newid angenrheidiol, ond credaf o ddifrif fod angen inni gael adolygiad llawn o'r holl faterion hynny.

Soniodd y Gweinidog hefyd am wasanaethau carchardai, ac mae hynny'n rhan bwysig o adeiladu partneriaethau a sicrhau nad oes unrhyw agwedd ar ddarparu gwasanaethau sydd wedi'u datganoli neu heb eu datganoli yn cael ei hesgeuluso mewn unrhyw ffordd. Mae'r grŵp gweithredu yn ddatblygiad arwyddocaol iawn, fel y crybwyllais yn fy araith agoriadol, ac rydym yn falch iawn fel pwyllgor ynglŷn â hynny. Byddai diddordeb mawr gennym mewn gweld sut y mae'r Gweinidog yn ymateb i'r argymhelliad ac yn bwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith a awgrymir.

Felly, rwy'n meddwl bod hon yn set hynod bwysig o ffactorau, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a dyna'n union pam y mae ein pwyllgor wedi neilltuo cryn dipyn o amser a gwaith i'r materion hyn, ac wedi dychwelyd atynt yn ogystal. Credaf mai ein hymrwymiad i'r sector ac i'r rhai sy'n cysgu allan yw nad ydym, fel pwyllgor, yn mynd i gefnu ar y problemau hyn; rydym am ddangos y gallu i ddygnu arni rydym yn annog eraill i'w arfer. Byddwn yn dychwelyd at y materion hyn, a byddwn yn parhau i ddwyn Llywodraeth Cymru i gyfrif.

17:45

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Diolch. Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Na. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

8. Cyfnod Pleidleisio
8. Voting Time

We now move to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I intend to call the first vote. No. Right. Okay. The first vote this afternoon, then. We vote on the Welsh Conservatives debate on NHS emergency departments. I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. If the proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 17, no abstentions, 34 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed, and we vote on the amendments.

Symudwn yn awr at y cyfnod pleidleisio. Oni bai bod tri Aelod yn dymuno i'r gloch gael ei chanu, rwy'n bwriadu galw'r bleidlais gyntaf. Na. Iawn. O'r gorau. Y bleidlais gyntaf y prynhawn yma, felly. Rydym yn pleidleisio ar ddadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar adrannau brys y GIG. Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Os gwrthodir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 17, neb yn ymatal, 34 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig, a phleidleisiwn ar y gwelliannau.

NDM7266 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 17, Yn erbyn: 34, Ymatal: 0

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

NDM7266 - Welsh Conservatives Debate - Motion without amendment: For: 17, Against: 34, Abstain: 0

Motion has been rejected

I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 28, no abstentions, 23 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed.

Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid gwelliant 28, neb yn ymatal, 23 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd gwelliant 1.

NDM7266 - Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 28, Yn erbyn: 23, Ymatal: 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant

NDM7266 - Amendment 1: For: 28, Against: 23, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been agreed

I call for a vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 23, no abstentions, 28 against. Therefore, amendment 2 is not agreed.

Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 2 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 23, neb yn ymatal, 28 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 2.

NDM7266 - Gwelliant 2: O blaid: 23, Yn erbyn: 28, Ymatal: 0

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

NDM7266 - Amendment 2: For: 23, Against: 28, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

I call for a vote on amendment 3, tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 23, 14 abstentions, 14 against. Therefore, the amendment is agreed.

Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 3 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Neil McEvoy. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 23, 14 yn ymatal, 14 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

NDM7266 - Gwelliant 3: O blaid: 23, Yn erbyn: 14, Ymatal: 14

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant

NDM7266 - Amendment 3: For: 23, Against: 14, Abstain: 14

Amendment has been agreed

I call for a vote on amendment 4, tabled in the name of Mick Antoniw. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 33, 18 abstentions. Therefore, amendment 4 is agreed.

Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 4 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Mick Antoniw. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 33, roedd 18 yn ymatal. Felly, derbyniwyd gwelliant 4.

NDM7266 - Gwelliant 4: O blaid: 33, Yn erbyn: 0, Ymatal: 18

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant

NDM7266 - Amendment 4: For: 33, Against: 0, Abstain: 18

Amendment has been agreed

I now call for a vote on the motion as amended.

Galwaf yn awr am bleidlais ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.

Cynnig NDM7266 fel y'i diwygiwyd:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: 

1. Yn cydnabod y datganiad trawsbleidiol ar Ddyfodol Gofal Brys Diogel yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg.

2. Yn cydnabod yr angen i’r bwrdd iechyd fod yn agored ac yn dryloyw wrth ymgysylltu â’r cyhoedd, clinigwyr, y cyngor iechyd cymuned, cynrychiolwyr etholedig, staff a’u hundebau, i lywio eu penderfyniad ynghylch darparu pob math o ofal heb ei drefnu yn y dyfodol, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau brys.

3. Yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid i unrhyw ddarpariaeth gofal heb ei drefnu fod yn gadarn, yn ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy.

4. Yn cefnogi adran damweiniau ac achosion brys barhaol gydag adnoddau llawn yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg.

5. Yn gwrthod cynigion gan Fwrdd Iechyd Cwm Taf Morgannwg i ddod â gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys 24 awr o dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg i ben ac yn galw ar y Bwrdd Iechyd i:

a) diystyru cau'r gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg neu sefydlu uned mân anafiadau 24 awr yn lle'r gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys presennol;

b) adfer yr opsiwn o gynnal gwasanaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys llawn o dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, Ysbyty'r  Tywysog Siarl ac Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru;

c) cyflwyno cynigion eraill ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd cymunedol, gan gynnwys gwelliannau i'r gwasanaeth meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau ac ymestyn oriau agor yr uned mân anafiadau yn Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda ac Ysbyty Cwm Cynon, a allai leddfu'r pwysau ar bob un o'r tair adran damweiniau ac achosion brys.

Motion NDM7266 as amended:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises the cross party statement on the Future of Safe Emergency Care in Cwm Taf Morgannwg.

2. Recognises the need for openness and transparency from the health board in their engagement with the public, clinicians, the community health council, elected representatives, staff and their unions to inform their decision on the future provision of all types of unscheduled care, including emergency services.

3. Recognises that any unscheduled care provision must be robust, safe and sustainable.

4. Supports a permanent and fully resourced accident and emergency department at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital.

5. Rejects proposals by Cwm Taf Morgannwg Health Board to end 24-hour consultant-led accident and emergency services at the Royal Glamorgan hospital and calls on the Health Board to:

a) rule out the closure of the accident and emergency service at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital or the replacing of the existing accident and emergency service with a 24 hour minor injuries unit;

b) reinstate the option of maintaining a full consultant-led accident and emergency service at the Royal Glamorgan, Prince Charles and Princess of Wales hospitals;

c) bring forward other proposals for community health services, including improvements in the out-of-hours GP service and extending the opening hours of the minor injuries unit at Ysbyty Cwm Rhondda and Ysbyty Cwm Cynon, which may alleviate the pressure on all three accident and emergency departments.

Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amended motion 32, 18 abstentions, one against. Therefore, the amended motion is agreed.

Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd 32, roedd 18 yn ymatal, un yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.

NDM7266 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 32, Yn erbyn: 1, Ymatal: 18

Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd

NDM7266 - Welsh Conservatives Debate as amended: For: 32, Against: 1, Abstain: 18

Motion as amended has been agreed

We now move to the vote on a Member debate under Standing Order 11.21, online and offline public services, and I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 36, 15 abstentions. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

Symudwn yn awr at y bleidlais ar ddadl Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21, gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar-lein ac all-lein, a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 36, roedd 15 yn ymatal. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig.

NDM7263 - Dadl Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv) - Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Ar-lein ac All-lein: O blaid: 36, Yn erbyn: 0, Ymatal: 15

Derbyniwyd y cynnig

NDM7263 - Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv) – Online and Offline Public Services: For: 36, Against: 0, Abstain: 15

Motion has been agreed

17:50

We now move to the short debate, so if Members are going to leave the Chamber, can they do so quickly and quietly please? If you're leaving the Chamber, can you do so? Quickly. Quietly.

Symudwn yn awr at y ddadl fer, felly os oes Aelodau'n mynd i adael y Siambr, a allant wneud hynny'n gyflym ac yn dawel os gwelwch yn dda? Os ydych chi'n gadael y Siambr, a allwch chi wneud hynny? Yn gyflym. Yn dawel.

9. Dadl Fer: Cymoedd technoleg, yr A465 a strategaeth ddiwydiannol ar gyfer cyflogaeth gynaliadwy ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd
9. Short Debate: Tech Valleys, the A465 and an industrial strategy for sustainable employment in the Heads of the Valleys

So, we'll now move to the short debate, and I call on Alun Davies, who is more than ready to speak on the topic he has chosen. [Laughter.] Mr Davies.

Felly, symudwn yn awr at y ddadl fer, a galwaf ar Alun Davies, sy'n fwy na pharod i siarad am y pwnc a ddewiswyd ganddo. [Chwerthin.] Mr Davies.

I've been extremely quiet this afternoon, Deputy Presiding Officer. I hope I won't be pushing your patience during the next few minutes. I have provided a minute to Mark Reckless who has asked to speak in this debate. 

Deputy Presiding Officer, you will remember, a few short weeks ago, I felt we had a very good conversation in a short debate discussing the Welsh Government's ambitions for the future of the Heads of the Valleys, alongside some of the Bevan Foundation's ideas and vision for the same region. I hope that we'll be able to continue that conversation today, and to do so in the context of the Government's plans for the Tech Valleys initiative and how that can act as a catalyst for the whole of the Heads of the Valleys region, and how we can use the completion of the A465 as an opportunity to create an industrial strategy for the Heads of the Valleys region.

I well remember the debate and the discussion around the Tech Valleys announcement. It was something that I discussed and debated with the then First Minister Carwyn Jones and the Secretary for economy and transport Ken Skates. It came from decisions around the Circuit of Wales. Members in the Chamber will remember the long and painful process of discussion and debate around that project. In June 2017, the Government came to the conclusion, following the due diligence, that that project could not go ahead with the public support that it was seeking. And I agreed with that decision. I think it was broadly the right decision. Having read the due diligence and been through that process with both the developers and with officials, I thought it was broadly the right decision.

But saying that you're not going to invest in something is different to saying that you are going to invest in something. The conversations that I had with the Government—at the time, I was clearly a member of that Government—with Ministers at the time, was about the region of the Heads of the Valleys and how we would use the powers, strength, capacity and resources of Government to invest in economic development and economic activity within that region. Clearly, the focus was in Ebbw Vale and the focus was in Blaenau Gwent, but I've never seen the political divisions of the county borders that cross the Heads of the Valleys as being divisions in what we should be doing.

I do believe that we need to look at the Heads of the Valleys as a region, from the top of Hirwaun across in the west, through to my own constituency to Brynmawr, to Farewell Rock in the east. I think, if we do that, then we could look at potentially doing far more than if we simply looked at individual investments in, say, Merthyr or Rhymney or Tredegar or Ebbw Vale or Aberdare. So, I hope that, in taking forward the discussions that we had at the time, we have that wide view and vision of what we want to do. 

The Tech Valleys initiative was first announced on 27 June 2017. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure published a written statement on the Cabinet decision on the Circuit of Wales, and this was the first announcement of what was then called the Ebbw Vale automotive park. The Cabinet Secretary said, and I quote:

'The Welsh Government is committing to building a new automotive technology business park in Ebbw Vale, with funding of £100 million over 10 years, with the potential to support 1,500 new full-time jobs.... We will begin this...with the delivery of 40,000 sq ft of manufacturing space on land currently in public ownership.'

And he was clear, and I quote again, that this was a 'stand-alone project' to be delivered by the Welsh Government along with local partners. On 20 July, about a month later, the then Cabinet Secretary chaired a meeting to develop more detailed proposals for the Ebbw Vale automotive park, and I was myself a member of that meeting. A couple of months later, in the autumn, the then Cabinet Secretary announced funding for the design and construction of a 50,000 sq ft industrial space in Rhyd-y-Blew, to kick start, as he said, the plans for the automotive technology park. In December of that same year, 2017, the Cabinet Secretary then announced issues around TVR's proposed move to Ebbw Vale.

The following year, in May 2018, the Cabinet Secretary published a press release that announced that the Welsh Government would invest a further £25 million in its Tech Valleys programme, which was the renamed automotive park, between 2018 and 2021, taking total investment over this period to over £30 million by 2021. In September of that year, 2018, the Cabinet Secretary announced that the Tech Valleys strategic advisory group would be established to advise on how the £100 million should be invested. It met for the first time and its terms of reference and membership were published. In January of last year, the current First Minister provided a response on a question to Tech Valleys, I think it was to Adam Price, at First Minister's questions. He said that:

'the original investment around the Tech Valleys programme always said that it would be a 10-year programme and that we would have £100 million invested over that 10 years. And, in fact, the amount of investment in this early part of the programme is greater than a pro rata part of that sum would result in. It is inevitable that, in the opening period, the focus has been squarely on investing in infrastructure, addressing the land and property issues to make sure that we are in a position to create those jobs that we know are there to be created for Ebbw Vale in the future...and should give confidence to people locally that the plan isn't waiting to happen—it's happening already.'

In the same month, in January 2019, the Minister for Economy and Transport announced that he would commit £10 million to the national digital exploitation centre, a cyber research and development centre to be developed by Thales and the University of South Wales. The centre will allow small and medium-sized enterprises and microbusinesses to test and develop their digital concepts, along with providing a research lab in which major multinationals can develop technology advances and test some of their ideas. The Minister stated that the project is right at the heart of the Tech Valleys project. In March of last year, the Minister for economy stated:

'we've already approved the Rhyd-y-Blew site development...additional business and light industrial units at The Works in Ebbw Vale. The Techboard refit will begin this year. And I'm pleased to be able to say today that we are ahead of the spending profile for the £100 million Tech Valleys initiative, largely because of the investment in the national digital exploitation centre, which could have gone anywhere in the world—to Singapore, to Germany—but instead, Thales chose Wales.'

—and chose Ebbw Vale.

Rwyf wedi bod yn dawel iawn y prynhawn yma, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Gobeithio na fyddaf yn profi eich amynedd yn ystod y munudau nesa. Rwyf wedi rhoi munud i Mark Reckless, sydd wedi gofyn am gael siarad yn y ddadl hon.  

Ddirprwy Lywydd, fe gofiwch, ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, teimlwn ein bod wedi cael sgwrs dda iawn mewn dadl fer a drafodai uchelgeisiau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer dyfodol Blaenau'r Cymoedd, ochr yn ochr â rhai o syniadau a gweledigaeth Sefydliad Bevan ar gyfer y rhanbarth. Gobeithio y gallwn barhau â'r sgwrs honno heddiw, a gwneud hynny yng nghyd-destun cynlluniau'r Llywodraeth ar gyfer menter y Cymoedd Technoleg a sut y gall honno weithredu fel catalydd ar gyfer holl ranbarth Blaenau'r Cymoedd, a sut y gallwn ddefnyddio cwblhau'r A465 fel cyfle i greu strategaeth ddiwydiannol ar gyfer rhanbarth Blaenau'r Cymoedd.

Cofiaf yn dda y ddadl a'r drafodaeth ynglŷn â chyhoeddiad y Cymoedd Technoleg. Roedd yn rhywbeth a drafodais ac y dadleuwyd yn ei gylch gyda'r Prif Weinidog ar y pryd, Carwyn Jones, ac Ysgrifennydd yr economi a thrafnidiaeth, Ken Skates. Deilliodd o benderfyniadau ynglŷn â Cylchffordd Cymru. Bydd Aelodau yn y Siambr yn cofio'r broses hir a phoenus o drafod a dadlau ynghylch y prosiect hwnnw. Ym mis Mehefin 2017, daeth y Llywodraeth i'r casgliad, yn dilyn diwydrwydd dyladwy, na allai'r prosiect hwnnw fwrw ymlaen gyda'r cymorth cyhoeddus yr oedd yn ei geisio. Ac roeddwn yn cytuno â'r penderfyniad hwnnw. Rwy'n credu mai dyna oedd y penderfyniad cywir ar y cyfan. Ar ôl darllen y diwydrwydd dyladwy a mynd drwy'r broses honno gyda'r datblygwyr a swyddogion, roeddwn yn meddwl mai dyna oedd y penderfyniad cywir at ei gilydd.

Ond mae dweud nad ydych chi'n mynd i fuddsoddi mewn rhywbeth yn wahanol i ddweud eich bod chi'n mynd i fuddsoddi mewn rhywbeth. Roedd y sgyrsiau a gefais gyda'r Llywodraeth—ar y pryd, roeddwn yn aelod o'r Llywodraeth honno wrth gwrs—gyda Gweinidogion ar y pryd, yn ymwneud â rhanbarth Blaenau'r Cymoedd a sut y byddem yn defnyddio pwerau, cryfder, capasiti ac adnoddau'r Llywodraeth i fuddsoddi mewn datblygu economaidd a gweithgarwch economaidd yn y rhanbarth hwnnw. Yn amlwg, roedd y ffocws ar Lynebwy ac roedd y ffocws ar Flaenau Gwent, ond nid wyf erioed wedi ystyried rhaniadau gwleidyddol y ffiniau sirol sy'n croesi Blaenau'r Cymoedd fel rhaniadau yn yr hyn y dylem fod yn ei wneud.

Rwy'n credu bod angen inni edrych ar Flaenau'r Cymoedd fel rhanbarth, o ben Hirwaun draw yn y gorllewin, i fy etholaeth i hyd at Fryn-mawr, hyd at Farewell Rock yn y dwyrain. Os gwnawn ni hynny, rwy'n credu y gallem ystyried gwneud llawer mwy na phe byddem yn edrych yn unig ar fuddsoddiadau unigol, dyweder, ym Merthyr, Rhymni neu Dredegar neu Lynebwy neu Aberdâr. Felly, wrth fwrw ymlaen â'r trafodaethau a gawsom ar y pryd, rwy'n gobeithio y cawn yr olwg a'r weledigaeth eang honno o'r hyn rydym am ei wneud.  

Cyhoeddwyd menter y Cymoedd Technoleg gyntaf ar 27 Mehefin 2017. Cyhoeddodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a'r Seilwaith ddatganiad ysgrifenedig ar benderfyniad y Cabinet ynglŷn â Cylchffordd Cymru, a dyma oedd y cyhoeddiad cyntaf ar yr hyn a elwid bryd hynny yn barc modurol Glynebwy. Meddai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:

'Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymrwymo i adeiladu parc busnes technoleg modurol newydd yng Nglyn Ebwy, gyda chyllid o £100 miliwn dros 10 mlynedd, gyda'r potensial i gefnogi 1,500 o swyddi llawn amser newydd.... Byddwn yn dechrau’r prosiect annibynnol hwn drwy gyflwyno 40,000 troedfedd sgwâr ar gyfer gweithgynhyrchu ar dir sydd ar hyn o bryd yn eiddo cyhoeddus.'

Ac roedd yn glir, ac rwy'n dyfynnu eto, fod hwn yn brosiect 'annibynnol' i'w ddarparu gan Lywodraeth Cymru ynghyd â phartneriaid lleol. Ar 20 Gorffennaf, tua mis yn ddiweddarach, cadeiriodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar y pryd gyfarfod i ddatblygu cynigion manylach ar gyfer parc modurol Glynebwy, ac roeddwn yn aelod o'r cyfarfod hwnnw. Ychydig fisoedd yn ddiweddarach, yn yr hydref, cyhoeddodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar y pryd gyllid ar gyfer cynllunio ac adeiladu gofod diwydiannol 50,000 troedfedd sgwâr yn Rhyd-y-blew, i roi hwb cychwynnol, fel y dywedodd, i'r cynlluniau ar gyfer y parc technoleg fodurol. Ym mis Rhagfyr yr un flwyddyn, sef 2017, cyhoeddodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet faterion yn codi ynghylch bwriad TVR i symud i Lynebwy.

Y flwyddyn ganlynol, ym mis Mai 2018, cyhoeddodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad i'r wasg a gyhoeddodd y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn buddsoddi £25 miliwn pellach yn ei rhaglen Cymoedd Technoleg, a ailenwyd yn barc modurol, rhwng 2018 a 2021, gan fynd â chyfanswm y buddsoddiad dros y cyfnod hwn i dros £30 miliwn erbyn 2021. Ym mis Medi'r flwyddyn honno, 2018, cyhoeddodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet y byddai grŵp cynghori strategol y Cymoedd Technoleg yn cael ei sefydlu i roi cyngor ar sut y dylid buddsoddi'r £100 miliwn. Cyfarfu am y tro cyntaf a chyhoeddwyd ei gylch gorchwyl a'i aelodaeth. Ym mis Ionawr y llynedd, cyflwynodd y Prif Weinidog presennol ymateb i gwestiwn ar y Cymoedd Technoleg, gan Adam Price rwy'n credu, yn ystod y sesiwn gwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog. Meddai:

'dywedodd y buddsoddiad gwreiddiol o gwmpas rhaglen Tech Valleys erioed y byddai'n rhaglen 10 mlynedd ac y byddai gennym ni £100 miliwn yn cael ei fuddsoddi dros y 10 mlynedd hynny. Ac, mewn gwirionedd, mae cyfanswm y buddsoddiad yn rhan gynnar hon y rhaglen yn fwy nag y byddai rhan pro rata o'r swm hwnnw yn arwain ato. Mae'n anochel, yn ystod y cyfnod agoriadol, bod y pwyslais wedi bod ar fuddsoddi mewn seilwaith yn llwyr, gan fynd i'r afael â'r materion tir ac eiddo i wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni mewn sefyllfa i greu'r swyddi hynny yr ydym ni'n gwybod sydd yno i'w creu ar gyfer Glynebwy yn y dyfodol...ac y dylai roi ffydd i bobl yn lleol nad yw'r cynllun yn aros i ddigwydd—mae'n digwydd eisoes.'

Yn ystod yr un mis, mis Ionawr 2019, cyhoeddodd Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth y byddai'n ymrwymo £10 miliwn i'r ganolfan ecsbloetio ddigidol genedlaethol, sef canolfan ymchwil a datblygu seiber i'w datblygu gan Thales a Phrifysgol De Cymru. Bydd y ganolfan yn galluogi busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint a microfusnesau i brofi a datblygu eu cysyniadau digidol, ynghyd â darparu labordy ymchwil lle gall cwmnïau amlwladol mawr ddatblygu datblygiadau technolegol a phrofi rhai o'u syniadau. Dywedodd y Gweinidog fod y prosiect yn ganolog i brosiect y Cymoedd Technoleg. Ym mis Mawrth y llynedd, dywedodd Gweinidog yr economi: 

'rydym eisoes wedi cymeradwyo datblygiad safle Rhyd-y-Blew...busnes ychwanegol ac unedau diwydiannol ysgafn yn The Works yng Nglynebwy. Bydd gwaith ailosod Techboard yn dechrau eleni. Ac rwy'n falch o allu dweud heddiw ein bod ar y blaen i'r proffil gwariant ar gyfer menter y Cymoedd Technoleg gwerth £100 miliwn, yn bennaf oherwydd y buddsoddiad yn y ganolfan ecsbloetio ddigidol genedlaethol, a allai fod wedi mynd i unrhyw le yn y byd—i Singapôr, i'r Almaen—ond yn lle hynny, dewisodd Thales ddod i Gymru.'

—ac mae wedi dewis Glynebwy.

And I'm very grateful to successive Ministers for making those statements, and for making it clear their commitment to the Tech Valleys initiative, and for ensuring that we do have the investment not just in Ebbw Vale, but in the Heads of the Valleys that we require and that we need. And I'm also very clear, as I said in my opening remarks, about the purpose of that.

The purpose, for me, is that we as a Government and as public bodies invest where there is market failure, and invest in an agile, fleet-of-foot way to ensure that we are able to support business and to support the creation of work opportunities and enterprise where that is possible. I want us to be able to use the power of Government to address the poverty that exists in the Heads of the Valleys, to underpin economic activity, which doesn't happen in the Heads of the Valleys in the same way it happens in Cardiff Bay, and to do so in a sustainable way.

I remember—it's one of the advantages or perhaps, Deputy Minister, the disadvantage of being in this place for over 13 years now—a number of Ministers coming to make these statements; I've been one of them myself. I remember Leighton Andrews speaking very, very convincingly about the need for investment in the Heads of the Valleys to be sustainable, to be sustainable in terms of the overall climate emergency, but to be sustainable in terms of funding, sustainable in terms of the economy, and sustainable in terms of delivering jobs that aren't 'here today, gone tomorrow', dependent simply on grants, as they were in the 1980s.

But we need to go beyond that, and one of the ways that I hope Government can operate—. And this is the purpose of the debate this afternoon: to seek from Government not only confirmation that the Tech Valleys project is going to live up to the ambitions that successive Ministers and the current First Minister has outlined for it—and has been outlined in Government statements, press releases and policy documents—but that it is more than simply an investment in an individual property portfolio, that it is a part of an industrial strategy that can lead to any renaissance across the Heads of the Valleys. 

One of the reasons why, when I was first selected to fight the Blaenau Gwent seat in 2009, we campaigned hard over that two years from 2009 through to 2011 to ensure that the dualling of the A465 went ahead as we'd planned, was to deliver economic development to the Heads of the Valleys. We weren't simply asking for that dualling project to go ahead for any other reason, but for the economic benefits that it could accrue to the Heads of the Valleys. We know, and we knew that there was a terrible, terrible safety record on that road—a horrific safety record on that road—and we certainly wanted it dualled in order to save people's lives. 

We knew that it wasn't a significant piece of infrastructure that was required that would serve our needs in the future. But we also knew that if we were able to persuade Government—and I'm pleased to say that we were able to persuade Government—that this investment would take place, then it was always seen as part of an industrial strategy to deliver the connectivity that we require in the Heads of the Valleys, to link us to markets and to link us to ensure that we're able to deliver the sort of economy and economic activity that we require. And this connectivity, of course, was also linked to the investment that Welsh Government has made in superfast broadband as well.

But we need to ensure that we maximise the potential of this, and I hope that the Government, and the Minister in replying to this debate, will be able to confirm that the Tech Valleys initiative is the initiative that we agreed, though it will clearly evolve and change, and emphasis will change over time—I recognise that; I recognise what these things do over time. But, fundamentally, we need to be able to have the knowledge and the security of knowing that these ambitions and objectives that we set ourselves in 2017 will deliver the growth and the skills and the large-scale investments, and that the foundations for the activity that we want to see will be laid through this. And I hope that we will also be able to have a timescale for this, because we've had a number of different ambitions laid out to us, in terms of timescales, but I think we need to understand in more detail how that's going to happen. 

I hope, and I'll close with these remarks, that we'll be able to meet the challenge that Victoria Winckler set me, in fact, as a Minister, back in 2018, when she said that there needed to be more focus on the Heads of the Valleys. I agree with her, and I thought her criticism and her contributions at the time, were perfectly fair and reasonable contributions, and, had I not been sitting on the front bench, I might well have made them myself. I think those were fair and reasonable criticisms to make.

But the focus on the Heads of the Valleys cannot, and must not, come and go with individual Ministers. It needs to be an enduring part of the Government's legacy and an enduring part of the Government's programme. I hope that the Minister, in replying to the debate, can confirm that the ambitions of the Tech Valleys programme remains the priority of the Government. I hope that he will be able to confirm that the timescales and the ambitions and the deadlines are there to be met and I hope that, in doing so, we can together create an industrial economic and social and cultural renaissance in the Heads of the Valleys. Thank you. 

Ac rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i Weinidogion olynol am wneud y datganiadau hynny, ac am wneud eu hymrwymiad i fenter y Cymoedd Technoleg yn glir, ac am sicrhau ein bod yn cael y buddsoddiad nid yn unig yng Nglynebwy, ond ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd fel sydd arnom ei angen. Ac fel y dywedais yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, rwy'n glir iawn ynglŷn â diben hynny.

I mi, y diben yw ein bod ni fel Llywodraeth ac fel cyrff cyhoeddus yn buddsoddi mewn mannau lle ceir methiant yn y farchnad, ac yn buddsoddi mewn ffordd hyblyg, chwim i sicrhau ein bod yn gallu cefnogi busnesau a chefnogi camau i greu cyfleoedd gwaith a mentergarwch lle bo hynny'n bosibl. Rwyf am inni allu defnyddio pŵer y Llywodraeth i fynd i'r afael â'r tlodi sy'n bodoli ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd, fel sail i weithgaredd economaidd, nad yw'n digwydd ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd yn yr un modd ag y mae'n digwydd ym Mae Caerdydd, a gwneud hynny mewn ffordd gynaliadwy.

Rwy'n cofio—mae'n un o fanteision, neu efallai, Ddirprwy Weinidog, un o anfanteision bod yn y lle hwn ers dros 13 mlynedd bellach—nifer o Weinidogion yn dod i wneud y datganiadau hyn; roeddwn yn un ohonynt fy hun. Cofiaf Leighton Andrews yn siarad yn argyhoeddiadol tu hwnt am yr angen i fuddsoddiadau ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd fod yn gynaliadwy, i fod yn gynaliadwy o ran yr argyfwng hinsawdd yn gyffredinol, ond i fod yn gynaliadwy yn ariannol, yn gynaliadwy o ran yr economi, ac yn gynaliadwy o ran darparu swyddi nad ydynt yn swyddi 'yma heddiw, wedi diflannu yfory', yn gwbl ddibynnol ar grantiau, fel roeddent yn y 1980au.

Ond mae angen inni fynd y tu hwnt i hynny, ac un o'r ffyrdd y gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth yn gallu gweithredu—. A dyma ddiben y ddadl y prynhawn yma: ceisio cadarnhad gan y Llywodraeth fod prosiect y Cymoedd Technoleg yn mynd i wireddu'r uchelgeisiau y mae Gweinidogion olynol a'r Prif Weinidog presennol wedi'u hamlinellu ar ei gyfer—ac fe'i hamlinellwyd yn natganiadau'r Llywodraeth, datganiadau i'r wasg a dogfennau polisi—ond ei fod yn fwy na buddsoddiad mewn portffolio eiddo unigol yn unig, ei fod yn rhan o strategaeth ddiwydiannol a all arwain at unrhyw adfywiad ar draws Blaenau'r Cymoedd.  

Pan gefais fy newis gyntaf i ymladd am sedd Blaenau Gwent yn 2009, un o'r rhesymau pam yr ymgyrchasom yn galed dros y ddwy flynedd rhwng 2009 a 2011 i sicrhau bod y gwaith deuoli ar yr A465 yn mynd rhagddo fel roeddem wedi bwriadu, oedd er mwyn sicrhau bod datblygu economaidd yn digwydd ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd. Nid gofyn yn syml am i'r prosiect deuoli fynd rhagddo am unrhyw reswm arall yr oeddem, ond oherwydd y manteision economaidd y gallai eu dwyn i Flaenau'r Cymoedd. Fe wyddom, ac fe wyddem fod diogelwch ar y ffordd honno'n eithriadol o wael—roedd diogelwch ar y ffordd honno'n erchyll—ac roeddem yn sicr am iddi gael ei deuoli er mwyn achub bywydau pobl.  

Gwyddem nad darn sylweddol o seilwaith oedd ei angen i ddiwallu ein hanghenion yn y dyfodol. Ond roeddem hefyd yn gwybod pe byddem yn gallu perswadio'r Llywodraeth—ac rwy'n falch o ddweud ein bod wedi gallu perswadio'r Llywodraeth—y byddai'r buddsoddiad hwnnw'n digwydd, byddai bob amser yn cael ei weld fel rhan o strategaeth ddiwydiannol i ddarparu'r cysylltedd sydd ei angen arnom ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd, i'n cysylltu â marchnadoedd ac i'n cysylltu er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn gallu darparu'r math o economi a gweithgarwch economaidd sydd eu hangen arnom. Ac roedd y cysylltedd hwn, wrth gwrs, hefyd yn gysylltiedig â'r buddsoddiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud mewn band eang cyflym iawn yn ogystal.

Ond mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn manteisio i'r eithaf ar botensial hyn, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth, a'r Gweinidog wrth ymateb i'r ddadl hon, yn gallu cadarnhau mai menter y Cymoedd Technoleg yw'r fenter y cytunasom arni, er y bydd yn amlwg yn esblygu ac yn newid, a bydd y pwyslais yn newid dros amser—rwy'n cydnabod hynny; rwy'n cydnabod yr hyn y mae'r pethau hyn yn ei wneud dros amser. Ond yn y bôn, mae angen inni allu meddu ar yr wybodaeth a'r sicrwydd o wybod y bydd yr uchelgeisiau a'r amcanion a osodasom i ni'n hunain yn 2017 yn sicrhau'r twf a'r sgiliau a'r buddsoddiadau ar raddfa fawr, a bod y sylfeini ar gyfer y gweithgaredd rydym am eu gweld yn cael eu gosod drwy hyn. Ac rwy'n gobeithio hefyd y byddwn yn gallu cael amserlen ar gyfer hyn, oherwydd mae gennym nifer o uchelgeisiau gwahanol wedi'u gosod allan i ni, o ran amserlenni, ond rwy'n credu bod angen inni ddeall yn fanylach sut y mae hynny'n mynd i ddigwydd.  

Rwy'n gobeithio, ac rwyf am orffen gyda'r sylwadau hyn, y gallwn ymateb i'r her a osododd Victoria Winckler i mi fel Gweinidog yn ôl yn 2018, pan ddywedodd fod angen mwy o ffocws ar Flaenau'r Cymoedd. Rwy'n cytuno â hi, ac roeddwn yn meddwl bod ei beirniadaeth a'i chyfraniadau ar y pryd, yn gyfraniadau teg a rhesymol, a phe na bawn yn eistedd ar y fainc flaen, efallai y byddwn wedi'u gwneud fy hun. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn feirniadaeth deg a rhesymol.

Ond ni all, ac ni ddylai'r ffocws ar Flaenau'r Cymoedd fynd a dod gyda Gweinidogion unigol. Mae angen iddo fod yn rhan barhaol o waddol y Llywodraeth ac yn rhan barhaol o raglen y Llywodraeth. Rwy'n gobeithio y gall y Gweinidog, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl, gadarnhau bod uchelgeisiau rhaglen y Cymoedd Technoleg yn dal i fod yn flaenoriaeth i'r Llywodraeth. Gobeithio y gall gadarnhau bod y terfynau amser a'r uchelgeisiau yno i'w cyflawni ac rwy'n gobeithio, wrth wneud hynny, y gallwn greu adfywiad diwydiannol, cymdeithasol a diwylliannol gyda'n gilydd ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd. Diolch.  

18:00

I congratulate the Member on obtaining the debate and thank him for giving me a minute of his time, and also wish him a happy birthday. The emphasis, to my mind, has evolved and we heard that it was an automotive park, and the Tech Valleys initiative and then I think, latterly, there's been a greater emphasis on cyber security. And I agree with Alun Davies that this Government needs to be fleet of foot and these things do need to develop, but I would like to hear from the Minister how he now describes the emphasis. I would also like to understand what the link should be between this and the compound semiconductor focus, perhaps with a greater priority on Newport as a centre of that, but what are the links and how will these initiatives support each other?

We've all been disappointed by the delays and the extra costs of the A465, but I wonder could the Minister, when he knows when this is going to be complete, given the delays, given the huge opportunity this road provides for the regions—and I support what the Member says in terms of linking together on a regional Heads of the Valleys initiative, rather than focusing just on a particular valley—? Could we use that A465, when it's going to be open, to market and to promote the region and as a real opportunity to encourage inward investment?

Rwy'n llongyfarch yr Aelod am gael y ddadl ac yn diolch iddo am roi munud o'i amser i mi, a dymunaf ben-blwydd hapus iddo hefyd. Mae'r pwyslais, hyd y gwelaf, wedi esblygu a chlywsom ei fod yn barc modurol, ac yn fenter y Cymoedd Technoleg ac yn ddiweddar, rwy'n credu bod mwy o bwyslais ar seiberddiogelwch. A chytunaf ag Alun Davies fod angen i'r Llywodraeth hon fod yn chwim a bod angen i'r pethau hyn ddatblygu, ond hoffwn glywed gan y Gweinidog sut y mae bellach yn disgrifio'r pwyslais. Hoffwn ddeall hefyd beth y dylai'r cysylltiad fod rhwng hyn a'r ffocws ar led-ddargludyddion cyfansawdd, gan roi mwy o flaenoriaeth efallai i Gasnewydd fel canolfan ar gyfer hynny, ond beth yw'r cysylltiadau a sut y bydd y mentrau hyn yn cynnal ei gilydd?

Rydym i gyd wedi cael ein siomi gan yr oedi a chostau ychwanegol yr A465, ond tybed a allai'r Gweinidog, pan fydd yn gwybod pryd y caiff y gwaith ei gwblhau, o ystyried yr oedi, o ystyried y cyfle enfawr y mae'r ffordd hon yn ei ddarparu i'r rhanbarthau—ac rwy'n cefnogi'r hyn y mae'r Aelod yn ei ddweud o ran cydgysylltu menter ranbarthol Blaenau'r Cymoedd, yn hytrach na chanolbwyntio ar gwm penodol yn unig—? A allem ddefnyddio'r A465, pan fydd wedi'i hagor, i farchnata ac i hyrwyddo'r rhanbarth ac fel cyfle gwirioneddol i annog mewnfuddsoddi?

18:05

Thank you. I call on the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport to reply to the debate—Lee Waters. 

Diolch. Galwaf ar Ddirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth i ymateb i'r ddadl—Lee Waters.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I echo Mark Reckless's birthday wishes for Alun Davies? It's also my birthday today and it's also Jenny Rathbone's birthday today. It's quite the troika of Assembly Members. I was trying to think what was the common denominator between the three of us, having our birthdays as Aquarians on 12 February, and the only thing I could think of, because we are a diverse lot, it's fair to say, is that it's a passion and a single-minded pursuit of our interests that unites us, and I certainly think that characterises Alun Davies in his pursuit of this agenda on behalf of his constituents. He has been dogged in his pursuit of it, and rightly, and continues to be so. 

He said, and Mark Reckless said also, that the way that this vision, which has not altered, is applied will evolve and change in emphasis over time, and I think that is right. Certainly, my own experience of it over the last 12 months is that, because of the change in the global economy and in particular the change in the automotive sector, the founding vision of it, as a consequence of—and Alun Davies fairly set out the history of this—the next iteration of the Circuit for Wales has been primarily focused on automotive, has shifted and that has been reflected in updated strategies, and that continues to be the case. There is TVR still in the mix as a project that we hope to see come to fruition, and we've made a series of commitments to the company, and as long as they can provide evidence that they've got the money, we will follow through with the investment that we've already provided and the stake we've taken in the company. Those conversations are ongoing, and I think it's to their frustration and to our frustration that it hasn't yet been able to go into production, but those are live conversations. 

I think my take on Tech Valleys is that, as Alun Davies said, it's got to be more than just an industrial property portfolio, although that is an important element of it, and those things are in train. Again, we've been beset by frustrations, some of them technical, some of them around procurement and some around the capacity within the local authority, which I know is an issue that Alun Davies has repeatedly highlighted—the challenges that a denuded local government has to deliver economic development—and we've certainly felt that in this partnership. But there is still a significant commitment to spending on bringing property up to scratch and adding to the industrial portfolio in Blaenau Gwent, which is something that he has repeatedly emphasised the importance of. So that is in place, that is happening, it is happening slower than we'd like but that is going ahead. 

There are also live conversations with companies to attract inward investment into the area, and we've seen also the fruition of that through the arrival of Thales, with a massive £10 million investment by the Welsh Government, match funded by the company, to bring cyber security skills and digital skills more broadly into Ebbw Vale, and I'm in discussions with the college and with others to add to that so that we can have a public sector offer to sit alongside the cyber security centre. So we really do see Ebbw Vale and Blaenau Gwent as a production facility for training the young people to give them the skills that they need for the jobs of tomorrow, and doing that in Blaenau Gwent. I think that's an exciting vision and one that I hope Members will share. Those, again, are live conversations. So the tech element is still there. 

I guess I should also mention the investment we've had in the Dennison Advanced Material Centre, creating a state-of-the-art engineering training facility in the Blaenau Gwent learning zones, which is now one of only a handful of further education colleges in the UK that can provide advanced composite training as part of its aeronautical and motorsport engineering courses, and 60 students have already started there; 30 per cent of those are female. So, I think there are things that we can point to that are absolutely on point with that founding vision and tech.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac a gaf fi adleisio dymuniadau pen-blwydd Mark Reckless i Alun Davies? Mae hefyd yn ben-blwydd arnaf fi heddiw ac mae hefyd yn ben-blwydd ar Jenny Rathbone heddiw. Am drindod o Aelodau Cynulliad. Roeddwn yn ceisio meddwl beth oedd yn gyffredin rhwng y tri ohonom, gan ein bod ein tri'n cael ein pen-blwyddi fel Dyfryddion ar 12 Chwefror, a'r unig beth y gallwn ei feddwl, oherwydd ein bod yn griw amrywiol, mae'n deg dweud, yw mai ein hangerdd penderfynol wrth fynd ar drywydd ein diddordebau sy'n ein huno, ac yn sicr, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n nodweddu Alun Davies wrth iddo fynd ar drywydd yr agenda hon ar ran ei etholwyr. Mae wedi ymdrechu'n ddiflino i wneud hynny, a hynny'n briodol, ac mae'n parhau i wneud hynny.  

Fe ddywedodd, a dywedodd Mark Reckless hefyd, y bydd y ffordd y caiff y weledigaeth hon, nad yw wedi newid, yn cael ei chymhwyso yn esblygu ac yn newid o ran ei phwyslais dros amser, a chredaf fod hynny'n iawn. Yn sicr, fy mhrofiad i dros y 12 mis diwethaf, oherwydd y newid yn yr economi fyd-eang ac yn arbennig y newid yn y sector modurol, yw bod y weledigaeth sylfaenol yn ei gylch wedi newid o ganlyniad i'r ffaith bod—a nododd Alun Davies hanes hyn yn deg—iteriad nesaf Cylchffordd Cymru wedi canolbwyntio'n bennaf ar y sector modurol, ac mae hynny wedi'i adlewyrchu mewn strategaethau a ddiweddarwyd, ac mae hynny'n parhau i fod yn wir. Mae TVR yn dal yn y cymysgedd fel prosiect y gobeithiwn ei weld yn dwyn ffrwyth, ac rydym wedi gwneud cyfres o ymrwymiadau i'r cwmni, a chyhyd ag y gallant ddarparu tystiolaeth fod ganddynt yr arian, byddwn yn dilyn gyda'r buddsoddiad rydym eisoes wedi'i ddarparu a'r gyfran a gawsom yn y cwmni. Mae'r sgyrsiau hynny'n parhau, a chredaf ei bod yn rhwystredig iddynt hwy ac i ninnau nad ydynt wedi gallu dechrau cynhyrchu eto, ond mae'r rheini'n sgyrsiau sy'n mynd rhagddynt.  

Rwy'n meddwl mai fy marn i ar y Cymoedd Technoleg, fel y dywedodd Alun Davies, yw bod rhaid iddo fod yn fwy na phortffolio o eiddo diwydiannol yn unig, er bod hynny'n elfen bwysig ohono, ac mae'r pethau hynny ar y gweill. Unwaith eto, rydym wedi cael ein plagio gan drafferthion, gyda rhai ohonynt yn dechnegol, rhai ohonynt yn ymwneud â chaffael a rhai'n ymwneud â chapasiti o fewn yr awdurdod lleol, y gwn ei fod yn fater y mae Alun Davies wedi tynnu sylw ato dro ar ôl tro—yr heriau i lywodraeth leol heb arian i gyflawni datblygu economaidd—ac rydym yn sicr wedi teimlo hynny yn y bartneriaeth hon. Ond mae ymrwymiad sylweddol o hyd i wario ar ddatblygu eiddo o safon ac ychwanegu at y portffolio diwydiannol ym Mlaenau Gwent, sy'n rhywbeth y mae wedi pwysleisio'i bwysigrwydd dro ar ôl tro. Felly mae hynny ar waith, mae hynny'n digwydd, mae'n digwydd yn arafach nag yr hoffem, ond mae'n mynd yn ei flaen.  

Mae sgyrsiau ar y gweill hefyd gyda chwmnïau i ddenu mewnfuddsoddiad i'r ardal, ac rydym wedi gweld ffrwyth hynny yn sgil dyfodiad Thales, gyda buddsoddiad enfawr o £10 miliwn gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac arian cyfatebol gan y cwmni, i ddod â sgiliau seiberddiogelwch a sgiliau digidol yn fwy cyffredinol i Lynebwy, ac rwy'n cynnal trafodaethau gyda'r coleg a chydag eraill i ychwanegu at hynny fel y gallwn gael cynnig sector cyhoeddus ochr yn ochr â'r ganolfan seiberddiogelwch. Felly, rydym yn bendant yn gweld Glynebwy a Blaenau Gwent fel cyfleuster cynhyrchu ar gyfer hyfforddi'r bobl ifanc i roi iddynt y sgiliau y mae arnynt eu hangen ar gyfer swyddi yfory, a gwneud hynny ym Mlaenau Gwent. Rwy'n credu bod honno'n weledigaeth gyffrous ac yn un y gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau'n ei rhannu. Mae'r rheini, unwaith eto, yn sgyrsiau sydd ar y gweill. Felly mae'r elfen dechnolegol yn dal i fod yno.

Mae'n debyg y dylwn sôn hefyd am y buddsoddiad a gawsom yng Nghanolfan Deunyddiau Uwch Dennison, gan greu cyfleuster hyfforddi peirianyddol o'r radd flaenaf ym mharthau dysgu Blaenau Gwent, sydd bellach yn un o ddim ond llond dwrn o golegau addysg bellach yn y DU a all ddarparu hyfforddiant cyfansawdd uwch fel rhan o'i gyrsiau peirianneg awyrenegol a chwaraeon modur, ac mae 60 o fyfyrwyr eisoes wedi dechrau yno; mae 30 y cant o'r rheini'n fenywod. Felly, rwy'n credu bod yna bethau y gallwn bwyntio atynt sy'n cyd-fynd yn llwyr â'r weledigaeth a'r dechnoleg sefydlol honno.

But the bit I've been thinking about since taking over the portfolio is, as well as attracting businesses into Blaenau Gwent, what can we do to support the businesses already in Blaenau Gwent? Because this is one of the most challenged communities we have in our country, and we owe it a moral debt, in my view, to address those challenges and to support those communities, not just attracting the shiny and new, but looking at those resilient companies that have been there struggling under very challenging conditions for generations or more, and some of them are looking tired when you look at some of the buildings that they have. And also, because of their part in the supply chain, they are quite vulnerable to many of the changes that we are now seeing being unleashed, both from the change in the automotive sector but also the impact that Brexit is going to have on creating friction in our trading relationships. 

So, what can we do to help those existing businesses and what can we do to help those businesses to become more tech savvy and more resilient in the digital disruption that we know is coming towards us? That's what I've been focusing on, and there are a couple of things that I can tell Members about that we have done in that regard. The first is the commitment to a productivity enhancement programme that will bring together the Welsh Government's regional teams; the smart innovation programme, which is the highly regarded Welsh Government innovation programme; the local council of economic development and the Upskilling@Work project, led by Coleg Gwent, in partnership with Swansea University's ASTUTE 2020 programme, which is taking research and development facilities to small and medium-sized enterprises that don't have their own in-house R&D facilities and then making that, through European funding, available across Wales. And we're looking to see whether or not we can have a specific focus on that programme in Blaenau Gwent, but also across the A465 area. 

I agree with Alun Davies's point that we need to make sure that the enormous investment that we're putting into the Heads of the Valleys road, more than the investment we'd intended to put into the M4 when that was first committed—over £1 billion for this road—we need to make sure that we get bang for our buck there and sweat that investment. The Valleys taskforce now has a sub-group focused specifically on the A465, taking forward the work that Alun Davies as a Minister to try and create an economic strategy for that road. That is very much in train, and we're looking to see how we can bring this R&D focus on that Heads of the Valleys road.

The other thing that we're doing on top of that is a 5G programme that Simon Gibson, through the work that he began in the innovation board, continues with the Welsh Government through a task and finish group, and we've just had funding announced from the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport for a 5G test bed in the Monmouthshire/Blaenau Gwent area, which has got significant potential. That will have a focus on that area to work alongside the Cardiff capital region.

So, again, another tech-related project, but looking at the businesses there. So, there's going to be the productivity enhancement programme, which is about enhancing the skills and wages that we have there. On top of that, I've asked Tegid Roberts, who did the work to bring Raspberry Pi manufacturing back to Bridgend to look specifically at what firms there are existing in Blaenau Gwent and how he, along with our internal teams, can work with a handful of firms to see how they can be helped to grow, and what investment we might provide on top of that. So, I think building what we've got there is as important, if not more important, than spending the £100 million on attracting new businesses. So, I think that's a really important element to our work.

As has been mentioned, Mark Reckless asked a question about the road, as did Alun Davies, and we are doing our best to overcome the current difficulties we're having with the contractor and the engineering complexities of the Clydach gorge, and we're still working very hard to complete, at the very minimum, the Gilwern to Brynmawr section as soon as possible before going on to complete the rest of it. But, as I say, as important as building the road is then making sure that we make the most of the road that is there. 

I hope I've addressed the majority of the points that Members wanted addressed. If I haven't, we do have a minute left and I will do my best to remedy that. In conclusion, Dirprwy Lywydd, if there are no further comments, I think we need to recognise how challenging this is as an economic development prospect. The whole purpose of creating it in the first place is that this was hard to do and hadn't been successfully done to date. The tech focus is the right one. The definition of what tech looks like, I think, is necessarily flexing and changing as the global economy demands. We are focusing particularly on skills. I think that is right. I want, as I said, to add the grounded firms element to it, but tying that together with the work of the Valleys taskforce, the work of the Cardiff capital region, I think, is vitally important, so, as Alun Davies rightly said, we don't have stop-start economic development, but we follow through on the ambitions that he set out as a Minister that all the colleagues who represent Valleys communities remain committed to, and I certainly, as a Minister, intend to do what I can in the time that I have to fulfil the vision of that ambition.

Ond y darn y bûm yn meddwl amdano ers ymgymryd â'r portffolio, yn ogystal â denu busnesau i Flaenau Gwent, yw beth y gallwn ei wneud i gefnogi'r busnesau sydd eisoes ym Mlaenau Gwent? Oherwydd dyma un o'r cymunedau sy'n wynebu'r her fwyaf yn ein gwlad, ac mae arnom ddyled foesol iddi yn fy marn i, i fynd i'r afael â'r heriau hynny a chefnogi'r cymunedau, nid dim ond denu'r disglair a'r newydd, ond edrych ar y cwmnïau gwydn sydd wedi wedi bod yn brwydro dan amodau anodd iawn am genedlaethau neu fwy, ac mae rhai ohonynt yn edrych yn flinedig pan edrychwch ar rai o'r adeiladau sydd ganddynt. Ac oherwydd eu rhan yn y gadwyn gyflenwi, maent yn eithaf agored i lawer o'r newidiadau a welwn bellach, o'r newid yn y sector modurol ond hefyd o'r effaith y mae Brexit yn mynd i'w chael ar greu gwrthdaro yn ein cysylltiadau masnachol.  

Felly, beth y gallwn ei wneud i helpu'r busnesau sy'n bodoli'n barod a beth y gallwn ei wneud i helpu'r busnesau hynny i ddod yn fwy deallus yn dechnolegol ac yn fwy gwydn yn yr aflonyddwch digidol y gwyddom ei fod yn dod tuag atom? Dyna y bûm yn canolbwyntio arno, ac mae cwpl o bethau y gallaf eu dweud wrth yr Aelodau am yr hyn a wnaethom yn y cyswllt hwnnw. Y cyntaf yw'r ymrwymiad i raglen gwella cynhyrchiant a fydd yn dwyn timau rhanbarthol Llywodraeth Cymru at ei gilydd; y rhaglen arloesi deallus, sef rhaglen arloesi uchel ei pharch Llywodraeth Cymru; prosiect y cyngor datblygu economaidd lleol a phrosiect Upskilling@Work, dan arweiniad Coleg Gwent, mewn partneriaeth â rhaglen ASTUTE 2020 Prifysgol Abertawe, sy'n mynd â chyfleusterau ymchwil a datblygu i fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint nad oes ganddynt eu cyfleusterau ymchwil a datblygu mewnol a sicrhau bod hynny ar gael ar draws Cymru, drwy arian Ewropeaidd. Ac rydym yn ceisio gweld a allwn ganolbwyntio'n benodol ar y rhaglen honno ym Mlaenau Gwent, ond hefyd ar draws ardal yr A465.  

Rwy'n cytuno â phwynt Alun Davies fod angen inni sicrhau bod y buddsoddiad enfawr a wnawn ar ffordd Blaenau'r Cymoedd, sy'n fwy na'r buddsoddiad roeddem wedi bwriadu ei wneud ar yr M4 pan gafodd hwnnw ei addo'n wreiddiol—dros £1 biliwn ar y ffordd hon—mae angen inni wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn cael y gwerth mwyaf am ein harian a gwneud y gorau o'r buddsoddiad hwnnw. Bellach, mae gan dasglu'r Cymoedd is-grŵp sy'n canolbwyntio'n benodol ar yr A465, gan fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith a wnaeth Alun Davies fel Gweinidog i geisio creu strategaeth economaidd ar gyfer y ffordd honno. Mae hynny'n sicr yn cael ei wneud, ac rydym yn ystyried sut y gallwn ddod â'r ffocws ymchwil a datblygu hwn i ffordd Blaenau'r Cymoedd.

Y peth arall rydym yn ei wneud ar ben hynny yw rhaglen 5G y mae Simon Gibson, drwy'r gwaith a ddechreuodd gyda'r bwrdd arloesi, yn ei barhau gyda Llywodraeth Cymru drwy grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen, ac rydym newydd gael arian a gyhoeddwyd gan yr Adran Ddigidol, Diwylliant, Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon ar gyfer man prawf 5G yn ardal Sir Fynwy/Blaenau Gwent, sydd â photensial sylweddol. Bydd hwnnw'n canolbwyntio ar yr ardal honno i weithio ochr yn ochr â phrifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd.

Felly, unwaith eto, prosiect arall sy'n gysylltiedig â thechnoleg, ond gan edrych ar y busnesau yno. Felly, ceir y rhaglen gwella cynhyrchiant, sy'n ymwneud â gwella'r sgiliau a'r cyflogau sydd gennym yno. Ar ben hynny, rwyf wedi gofyn i Tegid Roberts, a wnaeth y gwaith ar ddod â gweithgynhyrchu Raspberry Pi yn ôl i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr, edrych yn benodol ar yr hyn sy'n bodoli ym Mlaenau Gwent a sut y gall ef, ynghyd â'n timau mewnol, weithio gyda llond llaw o gwmnïau i weld sut y gellir eu helpu i dyfu, a pha fuddsoddiad y gallem ei ddarparu ar ben hynny. Felly, rwy'n credu bod adeiladu'r hyn sydd gennym yno yr un mor bwysig, os nad yn bwysicach, na gwario'r £100 miliwn ar ddenu busnesau newydd. Felly, rwy'n credu bod honno'n elfen bwysig iawn yn ein gwaith.

Fel y crybwyllwyd, gofynnodd Mark Reckless gwestiwn am y ffordd, fel y gwnaeth Alun Davies, ac rydym yn gwneud ein gorau i oresgyn yr anawsterau presennol gyda'r contractiwr a chymhlethdodau peirianyddol ceunant Clydach, ac rydym yn dal i weithio'n galed i gwblhau'r rhan rhwng Gilwern a Bryn-mawr fan lleiaf cyn gynted ag y bo modd cyn mynd ati i gwblhau'r gweddill. Ond fel y dywedais, mae gwneud yn siŵr ein bod yn gwneud y gorau o'r ffordd sydd yno wedyn yr un mor bwysig ag adeiladu'r ffordd.  

Rwy'n gobeithio fy mod wedi rhoi sylw i'r rhan fwyaf o'r pwyntiau roedd yr Aelodau am eu trafod. Os nad wyf wedi gwneud hynny, mae gennym funud ar ôl ac fe wnaf fy ngorau i gywiro hynny. I gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, os nad oes unrhyw sylwadau pellach, credaf fod angen inni gydnabod pa mor heriol yw hyn fel cyfle datblygu economaidd. Holl bwrpas ei greu yn y lle cyntaf yw ei fod yn anodd ei wneud ac nad oedd wedi cael ei wneud yn llwyddiannus hyd yn hyn. Y ffocws technegol yw'r un cywir. Credaf fod y diffiniad o sut olwg sydd ar dechnoleg o anghenraid yn addasu ac yn newid fel y mynn yr economi fyd-eang. Rydym yn canolbwyntio'n benodol ar sgiliau. Credaf fod hynny'n iawn. Fel y dywedais, mae arnaf eisiau ychwanegu'r elfen cwmnïau gwreiddiedig, ond rwy'n credu bod clymu hynny wrth waith tasglu'r Cymoedd, gwaith prifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd, yn hanfodol bwysig, felly, fel y dywedodd Alun Davies yn gywir, nid datblygu economaidd ysbeidiol sydd gennym, ond rydym yn bwrw drwyddi â'r uchelgeisiau a nododd fel Gweinidog, yr uchelgeisiau y mae'r holl gyd-Aelodau sy'n cynrychioli cymunedau yn y Cymoedd yn parhau'n ymrwymedig iddynt, ac rwyf fi fel Gweinidog yn sicr yn bwriadu gwneud yr hyn a allaf yn yr amser sydd gennyf i wireddu gweledigaeth yr uchelgais hwnnw.

18:15

Thank you very much. That just leaves me to say, 'Pen-blwydd hapus, Lee, Alun a Jenny.' And that brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Un peth sydd ar ôl gennyf i'w ddweud, sef 'Pen-blwydd hapus, Lee, Alun a Jenny.' A daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben. Diolch.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:16.

The meeting ended at 18:16.