Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Things are night and day compared to what we had before. We've now got a UK Government that actually listens and works with us, not against us, and we're constantly pressing Wales's case with the UK Government, and our finance Minister is in regular contact with Treasury Ministers. Together, we're pushing for Wales to get what it needs—fair funding, flexibility to invest in our NHS and public services, and a real voice on UK-wide growth plans. And it's paying off—over £0.5 billion through the new local growth fund, for example, is something that has happened as a result of that relationship.

Thank you, First Minister, for your response. I'm pleased to hear that those conversations are going well, because it's vital, more than ever, that the strength of Wales in the United Kingdom is recognised. It's this partnership that enables Wales to benefit from the economic scale and stability of the United Kingdom and from that shared prosperity funding, but also funding in strategic infrastructure and support for our public services. There are those, though, First Minister, who would rather see Wales separated from the United Kingdom. We know that Plaid Cymru remains fixated on independence—a path that would risk billions in funding and would cost taxpayers in Wales £11,000 per year, per person. They want to create economic instability and burden future generations with uncertainty and cost. So, rather than pursuing division like Plaid Cymru, it's vital that we work well in a strong United Kingdom to deliver what's best for the people of Wales. Would you agree?

Look, I think we've got to be honest with the public when it comes to the budget. There are limited resources and you have to make tough decisions. That is what governing means. I can't speak for Plaid's budget. I can't speak for independence. What I do know is, if we fail to pass a budget in this place, we will see a 5 per cent cut across the board in terms of services in Wales. And it will be much greater than that when it comes to local government. So, I think it is important to understand that it's unrealistic to suggest that there will be additional commitments and additional services. Everybody would have to look for 5 per cent cuts across the board. So, I am grateful for the fact that Darren has written to me, and I'll be meeting with him in relation to the budget. I've written also to the leader of Plaid Cymru, and I look forward to receiving his response on whether he is also willing to meet and discuss the budget. 

Well, after 14 years of UK Tory Government austerity and economic mismanagement, I'm really pleased to see that we now have a UK Labour Government, working with a Welsh Labour Government, who care about public services, who care about our communities, who care about the people that deliver them. First Minister, you said that the real test of the budget is what people see in their everyday lives. Some people have told me recently that they have had their health appointments brought forward. Can you set out some of the progress being made now under this new partnership, and how fair funding from the UK Government will make a difference to people's everyday lives?

Thanks very much. People don't judge budgets by spreadsheets; they judge them by what they see and they experience in their daily lives. Across Wales, I think people are seeing the difference this Welsh Labour Government is making: new trains—over 70 per cent of journeys are now undertaken on those new trains; thousands of new homes; over 300 schools transformed; this week, we've completed 130,000 potholes filled; and NHS waiting lists are starting to come down. That's despite the fact that we have seen 14 years of Tory underinvestment. So, with a UK Government that actually listens and works with us, we've secured £6 billion more for Wales than we would have under the Tories. We've agreed to work to reform the Barnett formula, and we're pushing investments in renewables, AI and defence so that Wales leads the industries of the future. I think it probably is worth mentioning that agreement that the finance Minister secured last week—that the UK Government would actually undertake a review and look at the Barnett formula.

Good afternoon, First Minister. I hope one of the areas that the Government in London—I nearly said 'Conservative Government' then; that was the wrong thing to say—the Labour Government, listens to you on is scrapping the two-child benefit cap. I know that you have personally committed to this, but the budget is coming up and we are hearing that there may not be a commitment to scrap that two-child benefit, as well as the concern that we've heard that there may be further cuts to the welfare benefits as well, which cannot go ahead. I hope you will speak strongly to ensure that those do not happen. We know, don't we, that 29 per cent of children here in Wales live in poverty and that that is scheduled to go up, in the next four years only, up to 34 per cent, which is absolutely shocking. We know that 21,000 families here in Wales are affected by the two-child benefit cap. So, could I ask you what representations you are making to the Chancellor to ensure that the two-child benefit cap is scrapped in the upcoming budget? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much. We've been consistent in our request to the UK Government—under the Tories before, and now under the Labour Government—that we want to see an end to the two-child benefit cap. It is important, I think, for us to recognise that I don't think anybody in the Labour Party doesn't want to see an end to the child benefit cap, including the Chancellor. This is about making tough decisions. I would suggest and I would urge her to make this one of the priority areas that I think will make a difference to the lives of children in Wales. This would follow the red Welsh way of approaching politics.

Cardiff Airport is a national asset, supporting hundreds of jobs, connecting Wales to the world and driving our visitor economy. Since coming into public ownership, it has seen real progress—new routes, better passenger experiences and growing private investment. It's a vital gateway for tourism and major events, from concerts and sporting fixtures to the 2017 Champions League final, which brought over £40 million into Wales. Our focus now is on green, sustainable economic growth.

I'm glad to see that you're still living in your parallel universe, First Minister, given that the Welsh taxpayers put over £250 million into the airport. I want to see a successful Cardiff Airport. One of the things that you could do to develop a successful Cardiff Airport is re-establish the Qatar Airways link to Doha. At one time, you couldn't stop a First Minister or a Minister of the economy and transport from this building jumping on a plane and going to Doha to secure that route, and I do commend the Government for doing that. [Interruption.] I hear the Member for Llanelli shouting over there that COVID happened. Every other airport in the UK that had the Doha link with Qatar Airways has had that link re-established. So, it might be worth while, instead of chopsing, that he reads the paperwork on this. When is the First Minister and her Government going to actually re-establish that link, because that would be the biggest sign that Wales is open for business and a real vote of confidence in the airport by your Government, which owns it?

Thank you very much. Conversations have never stopped with the Government of Qatar. We're still in conversation. We're still trying to convince them to restart that route. What I can tell you is the airport announced today that we've seen a 5.3 per cent increase in the number of passengers between September 2024 and September 2025. So, almost 1 million passengers now. So, we are heading in the right direction. I hope you will join with me in welcoming that.

While many mistakes have been made along the way, Plaid Cymru are in favour of the general principle of public ownership of the airport. I'm sure the First Minister would agree that we, as a nation, deserve a national airport that we can be proud of. The fact remains that Cardiff is, in terms of location, a much more convenient airport to fly from for many people in our country when compared to places like Bristol. Furthermore, I've found it to be a much nicer experience than flying from Bristol, which has become very overcrowded in the departure area, making it difficult to find seats to enjoy food or a drink before take-off. I'd like to know specifically what the Government is doing to attract airlines to Cardiff Airport, which is crucial to boosting passenger numbers, and, allied to that, what plans has the Government to improve public transportation links to the airport?

Thanks very much. We were not willing to be one of the only countries in Europe without a national airport. I make no apologies for making sure that the Welsh Labour Government stepped in and made sure that people were still able to use that facility. It's not just a travel facility, it is as much an economic development tool as anything else. When it comes to routes, in 2025, Ryanair will have the largest ever Cardiff programme in future. The airport and Visit Wales attended the Routes World event in Hong Kong in September to promote Wales and the airport on the world stage. So, we're making big efforts to make sure that they know there is a great facility, there are opportunities, and to encourage them to come and base themselves in Cardiff Airport.

First Minister, it is encouraging that passenger numbers have increased by more than 5 per cent in the year to September, and it shows that things are heading in the right direction. But, of course, our airport is more than a gateway—important though that is—in connecting Wales to the world and the world to Wales; it's also about our overall economic vision, I think. I wonder if you could say a little bit about how that investment from airlines based at the airport will fit with the Welsh Government's economic priorities around things like growing our crucial visitor economy and, indeed, our renewables sector.

Thanks very much, John. You're quite right—Cardiff Airport is absolutely central to our wider economic strategy. It connects Wales to global markets, supports our visitor economy and also helps to attract inward investment. Through our £206 million 10-year investment package, we're supporting air service development and air cargo and sustainable aviation technology, so that the airport grows in a way that supports green industries and skilled Welsh jobs. That complements the Welsh Government's work on renewables, on trade, on tourism, on making sure that Wales is very much open for business, proud of our national assets, and that we're ready to compete in that cleaner, greener economy of the future.

Diolch, Llywydd. If you'll indulge me, as today marks the fifty-ninth anniversary since 116 children and 28 adults perished in their school and homes in the Aberfan disaster, I'm sure that we'd all like to say that those victims are very much in our thoughts today, as is the extraordinary and resilient community of Aberfan.

First Minister, you'll recall that, back in January, I outlined that there was clear evidence of child exploitation by grooming gangs here in Wales. Your Government denied at that time that this was the case, and you challenged me then to provide evidence, even though the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse had already identified exploitation by gangs in Swansea and in spite of the bravery of victims, like Emily Vaughn, who spoke openly about their experiences. You also failed to back my calls at that time for a public inquiry. You, in addition, refused to publish correspondence between the Welsh Government, the police and social services departments in Wales. And you went on to say, and I quote, that there were 'no current widespread issues' with regard to grooming gangs in Wales. Then, when the UK Government finally caved in to public pressure and gave the go-ahead for an England and Wales inquiry, you did a u-turn and backed it, which I welcome. First Minister, can you now provide an update on the progress with regard to the establishment of that public inquiry and the Welsh Government's engagement with the UK Government on this very important issue?

Well, thanks very much. And I too would like to note today as being the anniversary of that tragedy in Aberfan. There are still families today who mourn the loss of their children and I'm sure our thoughts are with them today. It's the anniversary of another event in the history of Wales. It's on this day in 1965 that the Llyn Celyn reservoir was officially opened as well. Clearly, this was another injustice that happened and not one Welsh Labour MP voted for that. So, Tryweryn is something that is also worth noting on this particular day. 

When it comes to the grooming gangs inquiry, I think the most important thing to do is for us to remember the survivors of the dreadful abuse that occurred at that time. I have written to the Home Secretary to ask to ensure that Welsh voices will be heard in that inquiry, and it is, I think, important that that inquiry starts as soon as possible.

With respect, First Minister, you didn't answer my question, which was about the engagement that the Welsh Government had had so far about taking this inquiry forward. And I agree with you that we've got to make sure that survivors are at the very heart of the inquiry that goes forward, including Welsh survivors.

Yesterday, we found out that two grooming gang survivors quit their roles in the UK Government's inquiry into grooming gangs. Fiona Goddard and Ellie-Ann Reynolds resigned from the inquiry's victims and survivors liaison panel in protest, because they said that the two shortlisted chairs of the inquiry both had backgrounds in policing and social services, and that that was evidence, and I quote, of a 'disturbing conflict of interest', because these services had, and I quote the victims again,

'contributed most to the cover-up of the national mass rape and trafficking of children'.

They complained that the inquiry has become

'less about the truth and more about a cover-up'. 

First Minister, do you agree with them about that assessment of the situation, and if not, why not?

You asked me about Welsh Government involvement, and I can assure you that Welsh Government officials have met regularly with UK Government officials, as well as colleagues in the National Crime Agency who are leading on recommendation 2, and to ensure that Wales is fully involved. I hope the chair will be appointed as soon as possible, but obviously this is a matter for the UK Government.

Again, you didn't answer the question. I asked whether you agreed with the brave victims who set themselves apart from the victims and survivors liaison panel because of their concerns about a conflict of interest. Perhaps you can answer that question in response to my third question here as well.

Because the truth is, First Minister, that there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency from you or your Welsh Government on this matter. You wrote to me back in June to say that you were setting up your own victims and survivors reference group here in Wales, as part of your strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse here in Wales, and yet here we are, four months later. Yet, according to Emily Vaughn, the brave victim in Wales who has spoken out about her experiences, that group, that reference group that you promised to set up back in June hasn't met a single time. And this is in spite of the fact that there have been yet further arrests this summer in relation to the sexual exploitation of children by gangs in north Wales, this time in Rhyl.

Can you tell us, First Minister, why hasn't this group met? Why is it such a low priority for your Welsh Government? And what action will you now take, so that the brave victims of these evil crimes can get the justice that they deserve?

Look, I think that we all want to make sure that there is an understanding of and compassion for those survivors who have come forward, and that they have their voices heard. What I can tell you is that, in July, the Welsh Government launched a consultation outlining our 10-year national strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse. That closed on 8 October, and that includes child sexual exploitation. It's worth pointing out that officials are currently analysing the responses that we have received.

In so many ways, Llywydd, Wales stands at a crossroads. We see it in the Caerphilly by-election, where progressive voters are seeing the need to back the party best placed to defeat the division of Reform, that's Plaid Cymru, and we see it in the choice rapidly approaching us in next May's election, of course. With the status quo being firmly rejected, I'll encourage Wales to go for the positive choice. Again, that's Plaid Cymru.

And there's the question, then, of how determined we are collectively to stand up for Wales. We've been reminded again of the need to stand firm on the high speed 2 rail line, for example. Last week, the UK Minister of State for Rail, Peter Hendy, gave evidence to the Senedd in which he appeared to confirm that the UK Labour Government has no intention of giving Wales the billions it is owed from England-only rail spend. When pressed on what he said in 2023, that something is amiss with how the Barnett formula is applied to HS2 spend, Mr Hendy gave this astonishing reply: 

'At the time I made my previous comments, I wasn't a Minister in the Government; now I am.'

What happened to principles? Was the First Minister as staggered as I was when she heard Lord Hendy's comments?

Look, I will always stand up for Wales. I think that there is, and was, an injustice when it came to rail underfunding. I'm glad that the UK Labour Party has started to correct that injustice, but let's be clear: it is just the start. We have a long way to go, and I will be looking for a longer term commitment from the UK Government. We're not always going to get what we want, but I'll tell you what, I'm going to be pushing and pushing and pushing to make sure that Wales's voice is heard at every level of government in the UK.

Well, I'm not sure how hard this Government is pushing. Here's more evidence about Labour's questionable claim to be standing up for Wales. This summer, the Deputy First Minister issued a written statement on preparing for the devolution of justice, which stated, and I quote,

'We continue to support the devolution of justice in its entirety, as recommended by the Commission on Justice in Wales.'

So, I was a bit surprised, to say the least, to read about the Counsel General's comments to a Legal Wales conference this month. The Law Society Gazette reports that

'Any prospect of a separate Welsh legal jurisdiction has been kicked firmly into touch, with the country’s top lawyer confirming it is not an option for the foreseeable future.'

The Counsel General appears to be rowing back on Labour's pledge to devolve justice and policing and to develop a distinct Welsh legal system, but of course she's not the only one; so has the Secretary of State for Wales, Jo Stevens, and the prisons Minister, Lord Timpson. This comes despite the Thomas commission reporting that the people of Wales are being let down by the justice system in its current state and recommending that justice should be wholly devolved and a Welsh jurisdiction created. Did the First Minister give the Counsel General her blessing to say what she said?

We've been clear in the Welsh Government that we would like to see the devolution of youth justice. I'm pleased to say that the Deputy First Minister has had very constructive engagement with the Lord Chancellor. Things are moving on and we will continue to progress that subject.

I'll remind the First Minister that the pledge is on justice, not just youth justice. 

I'll return, finally, to Peter Hendy's comments, this time on the Barnett formula and the way in which Wales is funded. Mr Hendy told Senedd Members that, and I quote again,

'I can't comment about any changes to Barnett because, as far as I'm aware, none are currently proposed'.

Again, deeply disappointing given that, last year, the First Minister assured us that the Prime Minister and Chancellor were in listening mode on how Wales is funded. So far, there is no evidence of that listening. There is an emerging pattern here, isn't there? No HS2 consequentials, meaning billions lost to Wales; no devolution of justice, meaning we're stuck with a broken system that is letting down the people of Wales; and still no reform of the funding formula, meaning Wales can't adequately fund its public services and local authorities.

What happened to the partnership in power? Isn't Neal Lawson right in his article on the death of Labour in Wales in the New Statesman this week, that Labour now stands for orthodoxy, caution and the establishment, that people are desperate for change, and that Plaid Cymru is the face of that progressive change for Wales?

Well, let me be clear: I don't think there's anything unradical about getting rid of profit in children's care homes. I don't think there's anything unradical about making sure that we feed the children in our primary schools. I think that the Barnett formula—[Interruption.] It's probably worth mentioning that the Barnett formula—. On Friday, it was agreed in a meeting with the finance Secretary that there would be work to improve the Barnett formula by the relevant UK Government Minister, and we need to make sure that we move together to make sure that there is an understanding, not just with the UK Government, but obviously, as it is the Barnett formula, we will have to have an agreement with Scotland and Northern Ireland as well.

I'm glad that you've recognised in your answer how essential these digital skills are for the future of Wales, and for more than two decades the Technocamps programme, based at Swansea University, has been delivered by computer science departments across Welsh universities, training around 900 teachers and running bilingual workshops for 30,000 pupils annually. I had the pleasure of visiting a Technocamps workshop at Swansea University, and I saw how they deliver on the Government's strategic goals for digital education. They provide successful, bespoke, bilingual, face-to-face support for 900 teachers each year, ensuring every school in Wales is fully supported. But these teachers are now concerned that the Government has cut Technocamps funding and that instead of this support, £1.4 million, twice the funding Technocamps received, is being given to the University of York to provide online resources, with only face-to-face sessions in priority areas.

How can the Government consider this to be an adequate, cost-effective replacement for in-person, local, made-in-Wales support, particularly given that research by Nesta suggests that this could

'amplify...inequalities and hierarchies rather than empower more people'?

What's your response to Beti Williams MBE, patron of Technocamps, who has described this decision as outrageous, and accuses the Government of disrespecting Wales and disregarding the specific needs of our schools?

Applicants for this grant went, as I understand it, through a robust process of appraisal and moderation against a published specification. We had a number of different applications, so difficult decisions had to be made. We've prioritised professional learning, so we're giving schools the tools to do the job and to ensure schools across Wales benefit from our investment. We've increased our funding to develop computing and digital skills to £1.4 million over the next three years. Let us not forget that that wouldn't have happened if you'd been holding the reins of power, because we wouldn't have got our budget through.

First Minister, the pace of technological development is accelerating almost faster than we can keep up with. Who would have thought just a few short years ago that computer programmes would have the ability to write computer programmes? But that is where we are with AI. Not only do we have to prepare the current generation with the digital skills to be fully engaged with the changing world, but we must also equip future generations with the digital skills to adapt to technology we can't even fathom. First Minister, how is the Welsh Government working with the tech sector to keep IT teaching and teachers up to date with the latest technology advancements, particularly artificial intelligence?

Thanks very much, Altaf. As we all know, AI is going to transform all of our lives whether we like it or not. We do need to make sure that we adjust and put some guardrails around it. What we've done in Wales is establish a strategic AI advisory group to provide leadership, to identify opportunities, to promote responsible innovation to help grow strong, ethical AI ecosystems that deliver real benefits to people and communities across Wales, and on top of that, to champion, as you suggest, AI literacy.

Hundreds of lives has been saved and hundreds of others transformed since Wales pioneered the introduction of deemed consent for organ donation legislation in the UK. In December, we'll be celebrating 10 years since the legislation came into effect. Our national donation and transplantation plan, part of a wider UK approach, sets our long-term commitment and actions to improving rates of donation. The Welsh Labour Government can be really proud of a made-in-Wales policy that's now being copied across the UK, saving lives every single day.

On 1 December, a new memorial garden to educate and support and honour those around organ donation is being opened at Thornhill crematorium in my constituency of Cardiff North. It has been driven forward by Anna-Louise Bates and her team at Believe, and I hope the First Minister may attend the opening. Anna-Louise tragically lost her husband and son in an accident 10 years ago and since then has campaigned tirelessly for organ donation, and for education around organ donation in particular. She has visited schools, she has gone to colleges, she has created an animation, and has campaigned endlessly to try to promote organ donation.

This garden will be the first garden outside of a hospital of its kind to educate and support those around organ donation and, as I say, to honour those involved. It will include an 82m-wide heart that will be able to be viewed by Google Maps, mounds to reflect the liver and kidneys, physical signposting to other charities to explain diseases around donation, and quotes from donor families and medical professions to dispel myths and misconceptions. As we know, across the UK, organ donation rates are declining. It's really important, I think, that this important education work is done. So, please can the First Minister confirm what the Welsh Government is doing in particular to promote education surrounding organ donation in Wales?

Thanks very much, Julie, and thanks for your enthusiasm for this very important law that has transformed the lives of so many people in Wales. I must say that Anna-Louise Bates sounds like a remarkable woman, and I'd like to thank her for the work she's been doing with the Believe charity. I think what she's done in the face of personal tragedy is truly inspirational—helping families, healthcare professionals and schools to have those vital conversations about organ donation. It's amazing, I think, after 10 years, to think that more than 640 organs have been donated through deemed consent. That's hundreds of lives saved or transformed.

But, as you suggest, legislation can only take you so far. Families still need to play a crucial role, and that's why that education and awareness that you're talking about is so crucial. So, what we've got is a donation and transplantation plan for Wales, and that's in partnership with the NHS blood and transplant body. We continue to fund campaigns, school resources and public engagement so that people talk to their loved ones and register their decisions. So, I would like to commend the new memorial garden at Thornhill. I think it's a wonderful, creative way to honour donors and to raise awareness.

First Minister, as you are aware, patient and family consent is an important factor that affects whether donation, and ultimately transplantation, can proceed. Each year, a large proportion of families either override this consent, or the consent of the person who had previously given it, or refuse consent for their loved ones' organs to be donated. The donation and transplantation plan for Wales 2022-26, developed by the Wales transplantation advisory group, highlights this as a persistent problem, and identifies, amongst several reasons, a propensity for missed opportunities, where specialist nurses in organ donation were not present during family discussions, and that staff had insufficient training and poor emotional timing when approaching families. With this in mind, what specific measures are being implemented to address these contributing factors to reduce family overrides, and how will the Welsh Government ensure that NHS trusts are effective in improving training? Thank you.

Thanks very much, Joel. I think we need to keep talking as a society and with our families about organ donation decisions. I think it's important that we give our loved ones clarity in our decision, whether that's by registering a decision or telling our family of our decision. Because, as you suggest, many people mistakenly believe that they're automatically enrolled on the organ donation register, and due to the soft opt-out nature of the law, it's relatively easy for family members to override deemed consent. As a result, in almost half the cases, families override deemed consent, in contrast to those who have actually opted in, where less than 10 per cent of cases are overridden by family members. So, it's is important that people sign up, but that they also inform their families of their decisions.

People who live with Tourette syndrome encounter huge anxiety and many are extremely sensitive about their conditions, particularly when they're out in public. We know families have struggled to get the right diagnosis and support, and we're determined to try and change that. We're improving neurodevelopmental services, recruiting specialist clinicians, and bringing services closer to home. We're also updating clinical guidance, making sure GPs, schools and health boards work together so people aren't bounced around the system. It's part of our wider plan to make neurodiverse services in Wales fairer, faster and more joined up so that every child and adult with Tourette's gets the understanding and care that they deserve.

Thank you for that answer. The new film I Swear is based on the true story of the Tourette syndrome campaigner John Davidson. As the title suggests, it's about a man with involuntary tics that cause him to swear. But this isn't true for some 90 per cent of people diagnosed with Tourette syndrome. It's a hugely misunderstood condition. Most tics are uncomfortable, sometimes painful, often distressing and almost always exhausting. About the same number of people have Tourette syndrome as have autism. But as the Welsh Government recently confirmed to me in a written answer, no health board currently provides a comprehensive diagnostic and treatment pathway for children and young people for tics, there is significant variation in service provision, and there is no NICE guidance, which is a factor contributing to inconsistencies in service design and delivery. To get a diagnosis, families in Wales have to fight—and it is a fight—for referral via child and adolescent mental health services, which clogs up their waiting lists, and then for funding for the only specialist centre in the UK to see them, and that's Great Ormond Street Hospital in London. But even if you get that far, First Minister, and you do get a diagnosis after a long wait, there is no support that follows locally in Wales. First Minister, this isn't good enough. Would you please watch this funny and tender film and gather NHS leaders together to agree a way forward?

Thanks very much, Lee. I've certainly learned a lot from you there. I wasn't aware that the proportion of people with tics was anywhere near the same thing as autism, so that is something that I'd very much welcome—to have that information. Clearly, this is something that needs more attention. It doesn't help that there are no NICE guidelines. That doesn't help, because that means that there's a lack of consistency. What we do have in Wales is the neurology quality statement, so that takes us some way along the path. One of the things we've got also is the Welsh Government sitting on the Tourette syndrome steering group, which is led by Nottingham university.

There are examples of practice being better in some areas than others. In Hywel Dda, for example, they're piloting psychoeducation groups for parents and carers of children with tics and Tourette's within CAMHS and child health. They've also piloted a Tourette's pathway to improve access for children and young people with Tourette syndrome as part of the neurodivergence pathway. So, there are examples where some health boards are going further than others, but I think probably this is an area that does need a bit more attention.

Tourette syndrome, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and autism are distinct neurodevelopmental disorders that can co-occur, showing some overlapping symptoms and characteristics. Despite the Welsh Government's veneer of support for this, I continue to be contacted almost daily by families pushed into crisis by senior public officials who refuse to understand the barriers they're facing. Only this week, for example, I was contacted by a parent of two children presenting with clear neurodevelopmental issues over the past 10 years. Both have needed to reach crisis point before the health board has taken any significant action to help them. They were forced to obtain a private assessment for one, showing he has autism and inattentive ADHD, alongside already diagnosed Tourette syndrome. He was never going to learn by standard methods, and needed a lot of help much sooner. The other was sent home from school in June with fatigue and concerns about his eating. He was first seen by CAMHS about a suspected eating disorder in January 2020. Most recently, he was given an urgent appointment by CAMHS, which showed his weight to be close to dangerously low levels with a risk of organ failure. When, if ever, will you finally redesign services with these families in order to tackle the culture of blame, bullying and labelling, which continues to push them into crisis?

Thanks very much. We recognise that service provision in this area varies, and support is offered through neurodivergence or CAMHS services. There's a code for autism, and that acknowledges the need for services to support individuals. That new code will include Tourette syndrome. I think it's probably worth noting also that the neurodivergence improvement programme is working with Tourettes Action and third-sector partners to raise awareness and enhance professional understanding to improve services and awareness of Tourette syndrome. So, we know there’s more work to do in this area, and we're working with the experts in their field to help us to develop a better offer for the Welsh people.

'We are still awaiting a ministerial decision on priorities and a delivery plan.'

Thanks. I understand that the delivery plan has been signed off, and the Minister suggests that she's happy to share that. My understanding is that all four-year waits in Betsi have been cleared. So, we are absolutely heading in the right direction when it comes to assessments.

Wales is already world class when it comes to recycling—second best on the planet—and that's down to the people of Wales and the councils who are doing the hard graft day in, day out. But we're going further. We've rolled out workplace recycling, banned single-use plastics and vapes, and we're investing millions in new reuse and repair hubs across Wales. The circular economy isn't just good for the environment, it's creating good, green jobs too. From Shotton Mill in Deeside to Jayplas in Swansea, businesses are choosing Wales because we've got the skills, the vision and the track record to make waste work for Wales.

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. We should rightly be proud of our record and ambition as a global leader here in Wales. I recently met with the brilliant Ysgol Bryn Coch eco-council: Finley, Thomas, Esme, Jack and Harry. This came on the back of them writing to me asking why we're not able to recycle soft plastics at the kerbside at home, like we can do with so many other things. They were really pleased to get a response from the Deputy First Minister confirming that Welsh Government is planning to introduce this in early 2027, and also about two pilot projects currently taking place in Swansea and the Vale of Glamorgan.

So, First Minister, will you join with me in recognising the wonderful work of the eco-council and the important role councils like them play in reducing waste and achieving a truly circular economy? Do you think it would be possible to link up Ysgol Bryn Coch with a school in one of the pilot areas, so that they can learn from each other and share ideas? After all, we're only going to reach our ambitions of a truly circular economy if they are central to it. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr. Can I thank the Member for that question and the incredible enthusiasm of the pupils at Ysgol Bryn Coch, in particular those members on the eco-council? I think they're a real credit to their community and to their school.

I think our success in becoming the second-best recycler in the world is down to the enthusiasm of the public. They have responded—we've set them a target and they have responded enthusiastically. And the only way this is going to work is if we get that. So, to hear that the next generation is also up for, 'Come on, let's go further. What more can we do in this space?' is exactly where we should be. So, I'm really pleased that that soft plastic recycling strategy is being worked towards by 2027. I'll be more than happy to link Ysgol Bryn Coch with one of the pilot schools in the Vale of Glamorgan and Swansea. I've seen first-hand through the Climate Challenge Cymru schools projects that I ran for a few years in my own region, how children are really taken by this issue, how enthusiastic they are and how they're the people who drive their parents to behave differently within their homes. This is something we should be really proud of, and it's that leadership we see from those children that we need to see across the whole of our communities.

The war in Ukraine made our energy prices shoot up and they're still incredibly high, causing a huge amount of suffering across Wales. To avoid this from being our fate in future, it's essential for us to improve our energy security and reduce our dependence on imported energy.

Now, with our abundance of natural resources, we're in an ideal position in Wales to ramp up our renewable energy contribution and at the same time address the climate change challenges. So, our policy is to scale up renewable energy projects in Wales, including both offshore and onshore, creating valuable jobs and bringing investment to our communities.

First Minister, you mentioned there about onshore wind developments, and communities across mid Wales feel utterly ignored as our beautiful countryside is being targeted by speculative and often opaque windfarm developers, many of them driven by profit and not any genuine commitment to sustainability or community development. These massive projects threaten jobs, tourism and the very character of the landscape across mid Wales. They do not support environmental benefits or sustainability, because if you actually take into consideration the transport cost, the impact of construction and the wider grid infrastructure connections, they're not as environmentally friendly as windfarms let on that they are.

So, it's clear, isn't it, First Minister, that these onshore developments are going to damage rural Wales, so isn't it right now that the Welsh Government puts a line under this and bans onshore wind development across Wales in the interests of all those communities who are going to be affected by these proposals?

Thanks very much. Let me just make it clear that our Labour Government thinks that climate change is real, and it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed. What we need to do is to make sure that we play our part in addressing that climate issue. Now, what we also know is that by 2050, we expect to see a three-fold increase in the amount of electricity used in Wales. How do you propose that we can fix that unless we have continued dependence on people from other countries? You've seen the prices that people are paying today in Wales as a result of our overdependence on imported energy. [Interruption.] Can I just finish? Job creation is key in this sector, and the weekend we heard that 15,000 jobs are going to be created as a result of renewable energy. That is not something I'm going to apologise for. It is something I'm going to triumph, it is something that I'm going to be proud of, and I'm going to make sure that the people in Powys have the opportunities to get involved in developing those windfarms, in making sure they have the green skills available to them and to make sure that we deliver for the people of Wales, because in future the people of Powys will also need to make a contribution, as the people of the Valleys have done for over a century, when the coal was there.

Trefnydd, I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Welsh Government regarding the delivery of community-based mental health services in Wales. I've been working with Megan's Starr Foundation, a local youth-led charity that delivers support and therapies in Milford Haven. They are helping young people via counselling sessions and workshops. They've set up the Megan's Starr community coffee house, where young individuals can connect, share their stories and find a supportive community. They even have a speakeasy coffee van, which allows them to take their support services on the road, reaching rural areas where young people might not otherwise be able to access help and support.

Trefnydd, the work that the foundation does is remarkable, and I was extremely proud to welcome them to the Senedd today, and I hope that Members visited their stand in Y Farchnad to learn more about their life-saving work. Now, I believe that this sort of good practice should be rolled out more widely, so I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Welsh Government on how it's supporting innovative charities like Megan's Starr Foundation, given the important work they do to support young people who have often been overlooked by mainstream services.

Thank you very much indeed for that very important question. I'm sure that we all want to praise, as well as welcome, the Megan's Starr Foundation, and being able to share their great work, and also because this is about community-based mental health services, which, obviously, are meeting the needs particularly of young people in your constituency and are a showcase for Wales. So, this is something I know the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being would be very interested in and I'm sure will be following up on this good practice. I would also like to say that it's from a third sector perspective, I know, because many of these organisations are volunteer-led and supported, but also have to be supported by their health boards and local authorities in order for them to continue their great work.

This is a real opportunity, isn't it? I'm glad you've drawn attention to it again this afternoon in terms of this annual celebration, which, yes, across this Chamber, we have wished to be a public holiday. We know how important it is in our school calendars and in our communities just in terms of celebration. So, I will ask the First Minister again to give as much information to all the Senedd in order to make sure that people and communities can apply for that funding. I think it will be a real point of celebration where we can have these communities—. For me, it's very much about community cohesion as well, because I think it can—. I'd like to get the message over that this is an opportunity for all our diverse communities in Wales to really celebrate and take advantage of this new opportunity. Diolch yn fawr.

I'd like to ask for two statements, one from the Cabinet Secretary for Education about how Welsh Government is supporting schools in Wales with funding for new buildings and facilities. Yesterday I went to the official opening of Dosbarth Enfys, the new special resource base at Llanishen Fach Primary School in my constituency of Cardiff North. This absolutely wonderful new facility at the school means that 40 children with additional learning needs will have access to first-class specialist education, championed by the head of Llanishen Fach primary, Mrs Sarah Coombes. And this building has been jointly funded by Cardiff Council and the Welsh Government, with £4.4 million of investment—a perfect example of what the Welsh Government is doing to work for children with additional learning needs.

Could I also ask for a statement from the Government about Wales’s breastfeeding strategy? I’ve been contacted by some of my constituents, expressing concern about what they see as the lack of progress in this field, and a great deal of concern about the take-up of breastfeeding, which is very unequal, and, in more deprived areas, the rate is so much lower than in other areas. So, I think it’s very important that we do put more emphasis now on breastfeeding, and wondered if we could have a statement about the Government’s strategy.

Diolch yn fawr, Julie Morgan, and thank you for highlighting and drawing attention to this wonderful new specialist resource base at Llanishen Fach primary. This is, again, a wonderful example of joint funding between the Welsh Government and the local authority, Cardiff city council. Of course, this comes from the Welsh Government, from our Sustainable Communities for Learning programme, and that’s continuing to invest in ALN provision. It’s actually got a proposed £750 million-worth of projects planned over the next nine years. It’s 75 per cent Welsh Government contribution—normally 65 per cent, but it can go up, as it did, to meet that cost in Llanishen Fach primary. And I think this is also important because this is about meeting the growing demand for specialist provision across Wales to ensure that we have this inclusive environment in our schools. Inclusive environments, of course, are what we’re supporting our schools to deliver.

On your question about our breastfeeding strategy, I think it is very timely that we ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care for an update on what are the breastfeeding policies, which indeed have to be very much delivered by our healthcare professionals. But we’ve always had an overarching strategy to deliver on this—it actually does cover, I expect, the portfolios of all our health and social care and well-being team; it’s the Cabinet Secretary, it’s the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, and the Minister for children—because this is the best start for children in life. And it’s just interesting to recall that, of course, this is such a strong commitment by the World Health Organization and Unicef. World Breastfeeding Week is held annually; it’s about 'Forward Together'. It is about tackling health inequalities, as you’ve mentioned—the low levels in more disadvantaged areas of take-up of breastfeeding. I know this is an issue where Flying Start has played a very key part. But I would also like to thank the midwives and health visitors, who actually do help breastfeeding mothers in those really important days, and, indeed, in preparation for it, which I think some of us can recall ourselves, those very early days and a commitment to breastfeeding. So, I will ask for an update, just to also ensure that all Members in this Senedd can see that this is such a vital part of ensuring, a natural way in which we can ensure, that our children have the best start in life.

Can I call for a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Care in regards to the follow-up appointments backlog across Wales? Just in north Wales alone, the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has said that 170,000 people are on the backlog for their follow-up appointments. Many of those are supposed to be seen in good time, because, of course, there can be people with deteriorating conditions, particularly if they have an eyecare condition. And Diabetes UK, the Royal National Institute of Blind People, and others, have warned that many people are facing irreversible harm to their eyesight as a result of them not getting their follow-up appointments in time. I do think that, while there is clearly a need to focus on those very first appointments, from a follow-up point of view, because we've got very long waiting lists across the board, we also need to be cognisant of the fact that follow-up appointments are equally as important. So, I would like to know what the Welsh Government is doing to address this issue.

Thank you very much, Darren Millar, for that question. It is the follow-up that is often so important. Of course, we know as well from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care that this is something where it is important, and we can give that message, as you have today, that people do respond to their follow-up appointments. So, yes, I'm sure we can give some indication of where that lies in terms of the appointments being made for follow-up, in terms of any backlog, because it is important that that follow-through—. It's the investment in health, isn't it, and in that often specialist healthcare, that is so important.

Could I request an oral statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the timing of school inspections around Taith overseas visits? As you are very well aware, Taith funding provides amazing opportunities for our children and young people to travel overseas. I recently visited All Saints voluntary aided primary school in Gresford to hear about a trip that 20 year 5 children had taken to Singapore. The trip was, as you would expect, very successful, but the headteacher was telling me how concerned he was that an inspection could have taken place whilst he was away. If that had been the case, he would have only just been aware of it before they went; as you know, schools receive two weeks' notice ahead of an inspection. So, I think, in order to make the best use of publicly-funded Taith's programme, it seems our schools really should receive some protection—say, for around a month—of such a visit taking place. So, I do call for an oral statement on this issue. Diolch.

Thank you very much. That is a very specific operational issue that we need to share, clearly, in terms of school inspections and Estyn's responsibility, and, indeed, the planning that a school needs to engage in, for the school to undertake, in what sounds such a fantastic opportunity through Taith—your school in Gresford, All Saints, to go to Singapore.

Can I just take the opportunity, Llywydd, to say that, since its launch in February 2022, Taith has gone from strength to strength, with the goal of taking Wales to the world and bringing the world to Wales? The breadth of organisations that have received funding reflects our emphasis on delivering a programme that benefits all education and youth sectors. It is important that we're extending Taith. Two additional funding rounds will be made available to education organisations across Wales, helping them to achieve their potential. So, it is a major made-in-Wales success, isn't it, Taith? We lost Erasmus, we got Taith moving, and, of course, we are now committed to ensuring that lessons learned and good practice that has been developed by Taith informs discussions on the terms to rejoin Erasmus+. But I think we need to also make sure that it fits in with the school year, the operational issues, particularly, as you raised today, around school inspections.

I call for two Welsh Government statements—firstly, on access to cystic fibrosis treatments. The recently approved drug, Alyftrek, remains unavailable in Wales, despite being accessible in England since the summer and covered by National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidance. Although implementation in Wales typically follows within 60 days of NICE approval, this has not occurred with Alyftrek. The Cystic Fibrosis Trust and clinical teams have raised concerns about extended commercial negotiations, and the trust understands that the Welsh Government is seeking a broader agreement to include patients beyond NICE criteria, which is unnecessarily delaying access for those who already meet the guidelines. The chief executive officer of the Cystic Fibrosis Trust has written to the health Secretary here, urging immediate access for eligible patients. We therefore need a statement from the health Secretary confirming when Alyftrek will be routinely available on the NHS in Wales for those who meet NICE criteria, and what steps are being taken to ensure timely access for those most in need.

I call for a second statement, on support for tennis facilities in Wales. This week marks the return of professional tennis to Wales for the first time in 30 years, as the Lexus Wrexham Open begins at Wrexham Tennis Centre, the largest women's tennis event in Great Britain outside of the grass court season. The main draw gets under way today. Although the tournament follows significant major investment in tennis and padel facilities across Wales, only 37 of the 1,100 tennis courts in Wales are covered tennis courts, the lowest percentage in Great Britain, and well below European counterparts, despite demand for indoor tennis in Wales. The Lawn Tennis Association and Tennis Wales are keen to work with Welsh Government to address this gap in facilities, and I call for a statement accordingly.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, for those questions. Clearly, you have engaged in terms of the all-important access to that new medication for people with cystic fibrosis. I'm sure you will understand that it is welcome that the Welsh Government is also looking at patients beyond the NICE criteria, but we clearly need to get information back to, particularly, those families and those with cystic fibrosis in terms of the timelines for this. I'll certainly share this and raise this with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and he will get back to you, and indeed share that with the Senedd.

Thank you also for drawing attention to the wonderful game of tennis today, Mark Isherwood, and that event that's taking place in Wrexham. It's important that we do look—. Tennis Wales, I'm sure, will be delighted that you are raising this today, because this is an important sport and part of our Welsh sporting array of opportunities. So, I will also raise this with the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership.

Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement from the Government on school readiness and early intervention. There are a number of headmasters and headmistresses now who are increasingly concerned about the number of children starting school unable to speak properly, recognise basic words, or even use the loo. In one local primary school, seven children began reception this term in nappies. This shows that something has gone seriously wrong, and heads across Wales have told me that things since COVID have got worse, not better. It's a genuine concern that I've been approached about. Teachers are losing hours of teaching time per week, and whole classes are missing out on the teaching time that they deserve. We need proper early-years intervention that supports families with this, long before a child reaches the school gate—perhaps a simple national checklist in nursery settings to make sure children are meeting the key milestones in speech, potty training and early learning, and the support to be there in place for those who aren't. Schools cannot and should not be expected to do everything, including changing nappies. A Government statement on how it plans to tackle this, which is something that ASCL, the Association of School and College Leaders, puts as one of their top three priorities, would be both timely and essential. Diolch.

I think one of the great benefits—another; today, we've been looking at lots of great Welsh Government and made-in-Wales initiatives—of course, is Flying Start. The fact is that, for so many children—and we're rolling it out now to all two-year-olds in Wales—Flying Start does actually provide all parents, regardless of their circumstances, and, geographically, covering the whole of Wales, with that all-important support in their early years before they reach school. I do think we should perhaps focus on the benefits of Flying Start more, because what is very clear is that it does give those children and those families parental support as well, which is crucial, but gives those children an opportunity to have pre-school engagement to prepare them for school. If you talk to schools, and I'm sure that you have in your region, you will know that Flying Start has been one of the greatest—. And sustained through all the years of austerity, and you were part of that Conservative group at that time, when we saw funding cut year after year. But, Flying Start, we kept it going in Wales, and we've kept it going to ensure our children have got that wonderful start in life, which will soon, we hope, spread throughout the whole of Wales.

Trefnydd, yesterday, I joined Paul Davies in visiting the Samaritans branch in Haverfordwest and speaking to volunteers. This is the only branch south of Aberystwyth and west of Swansea. What was striking, in talking to them about possible changes to the Samaritans, was one statistic, which was that, in 2024, of the 436 suicides that took place in Wales, 77.2 per cent of those were men. And you spoke last week, Trefnydd, at the Centre for Social Justice event, kindly sponsored by my colleague Sam Rowlands, entitled 'Lost Boys: State of the Nation', and it was a really telling evening that brought forward some of the real challenges facing men, and young men in particular, in Wales at this moment. So, could I please call for a statement on support for men, men's health and men's mental health, please?

Thank you very much, Sam Kurtz. And, of course, I was pleased to come and speak at that very important event last week, on the Centre for Social Justice's report on lost boys. The evidence was very important. I was able to say a few words, as the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, and it's very much a cross-Government issue as well in terms of young men, particularly in terms of that focus and men's mental health. But you also draw attention in the start of your question about how important Samaritans is, and, of course, this is something where I know that the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being would want to respond to that point. But if you recall, she also, actually, responded to a short debate, a no named day motion debate, on this. I will again draw this to her attention. But I thought there were some very positive features in that report and the discussion panel was very valuable.

Trefnydd, can I request a statement from the Minister for Children and Social Care on the rising cost of childcare in Wales? We know that the costs of full-time nursery provision for a two-year-old in Wales is some £14,500 a year. Indeed, I have a constituent in the Chepstow area who is currently paying £981.50 per month for three days a week of childcare, whereas their friend, who lives 1 mile over the border in England, pays the equivalent of just £225 for the same amount of care, a £750 difference, which is absolutely terrible and clearly not fair on the parents of Wales. I know, in a previous question, you mentioned Flying Start. We know Flying Start is good where it is available, but it is literally a postcode lottery and there isn't access for many people to access it. So, I feel the system at the moment is leaving parents stuck in limbo, trying to stretch their budgets, unable to fully return to work, and this is no good for them or for our economy. I would, therefore, welcome a statement from the Minister on what plans the Welsh Government have to properly fund childcare to enable parents to return to work, as the current system is prohibitive and holding the economy back.

Thank you Peter Fox for that question. I did mention Flying Start, and I will say again that we are aiming to roll out Flying Start with free childcare across the whole of Wales. In fact, I think some authorities have already achieved that, so there is no postcode lottery. So, Merthyr Tydfil, for example, is an authority where they have now got Flying Start available for every child in that community. And, of course, that does mean free childcare, which is so important, as well as the other elements of Flying Start, which are key, which we discussed earlier on. We do have the most favourable childcare offer in Wales, and I think one of the important features of that is that it also includes holiday care. So often, as I think those of us who are working parents across the whole Chamber know, school holidays are also a great deal of responsibility, and cost and access to school holiday care—. But we are also supporting, through our childcare offer, which is unique to Wales, support for parents in further education and training.

I just wanted to take the opportunity of again praising our school holiday enrichment programme, which has been extended this year. The Cabinet Secretary for Education extended it by £1 million, as a result of a review that Julie Morgan undertook to look at the school holiday enrichment programme, which includes access to food, as well as fun and creative activities. So, we have ways in which we are supporting childcare. But also, don't forget, Peter Fox, I'm sure your constituents welcome the fact that, since 2006, we've had free school breakfasts available for our children. They're only just catching up in England. Those free school breakfasts, I know, and I think we all of us know, do provide a very important free, nutritious breakfast and a free hour or so as well at the start of the school day.

It was deeply disappointing, the news last week, that the Court of Appeal refused a hearing that sought to challenge the decision to close air ambulance bases in Welshpool and Caernarfon. The Welsh Government has previously said that they can't comment whilst this legal challenge is ongoing. Now that legal process has ended, can I ask the Welsh Government to bring forward a statement to allow Senedd Members to question this awful decision? I want to know if the Welsh Government, who are ultimately responsible for all health services in Wales, find it acceptable that large areas of mid and north Wales will receive a slower emergency response time. And also, as part of the proposed changes, a range of so-called mitigation measures were announced, including the deployment of additional road vehicles for areas of mid and north Wales. Now, I firmly believe that those steps fall well short of what is truly needed to ensure that those that need urgent medical treatment are transferred into emergency care with speed. There was a promise made that no bases would close until these further resources are operational and in place, and we need time to ask questions and scrutinise this decision. Trefnydd, the residents of mid Wales deserve the same standard of care in terms of prompt emergency response as those living in urban parts of Wales, and I hope, Trefnydd, you will agree for Government time to be permitted to allow this to be discussed on the floor of this Senedd.

Thank you, Russell George. Well, the benefit of having questions to me, as Trefnydd, is that you were able to raise this today, Russell George, and I think that it was important that you did raise it. Obviously, these issues were all considered—there's no question—by all of the processes that it has gone through, including, finally, the Court of Appeal. But, of course, there will be opportunities to raise this in terms of access to that emergency care, which, of course, is a question for the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and you will be able to raise that, of course, on the floor in his questions.

I would like to request a statement from the Welsh Government on an issue that has already been raised with the First Minister here today, so it shows that it is pertinent and affecting far too many people, and that is how we’re assessing and supporting children with ADHD and autism, and whether the current system is really working for the families who should be relying on it. Far too often, I hear from parents who are deeply worried about their children, and, far too often, those concerns are met with long waiting times, of up to seven years in north Wales, unclear processes, or children being told to just cope without any proper diagnosis or support in place. Now, we all know that early intervention can make a world of difference not just academically, but for a child's confidence, well-being and future, but we can’t intervene properly if those early assessments are not taking place. In the meantime, pupils are being misunderstood, teachers are under pressure and parents are left feeling helpless. So, I would like to have a Government statement, an update to the Senedd, on what is being done to speed up those assessments, how the ALN system is working in practice for children who haven’t yet had a formal diagnosis, and how we’re making sure that schools have the training and resources they need to support those pupils day-to-day.

Thank you for that question, Sam Rowlands. Clearly, there was quite extensive engagement, in questions and answers, with the First Minister, which was really important, and she was able to respond to some specific issues and needs in terms of learners with ADHD and autism this afternoon in her answers. But this is something we've already touched on today, earlier on this afternoon, just welcoming, as Julie Morgan drew to our attention, the funding that has gone into a specialist resource base in her constituency in Llanishen Fach Primary School, and the commitment that we've made of £20 million of ALN capital funding available in this financial year, because inclusive environments are also really important in terms of school-based support. But, of course, last week, we had a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education specifically on ALN provision, and I know that that's being followed up by the Children, Young People and Education Committee.

I'd like to request a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales on the new T51 TrawsCymru bus service for network north Wales. From late September, the route now operated by Transport for Wales, directly owned by the Welsh Government, has replaced the former 51 and X51 services, now providing an hourly bus service between Ruthin and Wrexham, an upgrade from the current two-hourly service. There's an hourly service between Wrexham and Rhyl on a Sunday, and I absolutely welcome the more frequent service and the new, modern and more comfortable buses. However, I am concerned about the new bus route, which cuts out large parts of St Asaph, redirecting the service through St Asaph business park on the outskirts of the city. This has been spotted by many residents, who are perplexed as to why the route would cut out most of St Asaph, where most of the residents would get on and where most elderly residents would rely on the bus. So, can I have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary on the new TfW bus service and why this decision was made to exclude large parts of St Asaph, to the detriment of my constituents?

Thank you for those very detailed points about the provision of bus services in your constituency, which are very important to your constituents—there's no question about that. I can't answer those details, but you've made your point and it's on the record, and, of course, questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales are going to be held tomorrow.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Could I seek two statements, please, Trefnydd? For one statement, I would like a statement from the Minister for health in relation to my constituent Claire Wright's predicament. You might have seen the powerful evidence that she gave to the Dispatches programme on 13 October this year, where she highlighted that the tragic death of her son was partly because of the standing down of an ambulance that was called to attend where he’d collapsed. A 45-minute delay was involved in the next ambulance being dispatched, although she only lived a couple of miles from the Heath hospital. This was because of the intelligent routing protocol, which the Welsh ambulance service uses. At the time, one in five calls into their call centre were coming from other parts of the United Kingdom. There’s a real issue over the protocols, about how this system works, and, in particular, how the demand is placed on the call centres to deal with their own calls in their own geographical administrative areas before taking on additional calls in other areas. I would very much like, and my constituent as well would very much like, to have a statement on how the Welsh Government, with the ambulance trust, monitors and makes sure that this protocol is being implemented effectively.

Secondly, I would like a statement from the Minister responsible for fly-tipping here—the local government Minister. We had a very powerful debate a few weeks ago here—a Member-led debate—about fly-tipping. It is a growing phenomenon that is happening in South Wales Central, in particular in the Vale of Glamorgan. But, when you see neighbouring authorities such as Bridgend, which have not prosecuted a single fly-tipping incident for over 10 years, then it really is doing little to deter people from travelling around south Wales and illegally tipping goods in gateways and other beauty spots that, ultimately, are blighting our countryside. So, there is an onus on the Welsh Government to take ownership here and work with their partners in local government to make sure that the tools that are available are being used, rather than, as I said, in the instance of Bridgend local authority, there being not one prosecution for 10 years.

Thank you very much, Andrew R.T. Davies. You draw attention to the very tragic death of your constituent. Of course, this is something that I know the Welsh Ambulance Services University NHS Trust, as they look at every case—. They have to look in terms of protocol and management of delivery. Please, of course, this is an opportunity for us to give our condolences and sympathies to the family of Claire Wright, and to make sure that the ambulance trust is following this up, and I have no doubt that you have already raised this with them.

On your second point, yes, it’s something—. I think we all supported Mick Antoniw when he brought his legislative proposal in front of the Senedd, looking at how we could work together. And it is a cross-government issue in terms of local government and Welsh Government and the powers that exist to take action against fly-tipping. I think many of us saw that being publicised just this week in terms of the situation in some local authorities. But thank you for drawing attention to this. Of course, this is something that the Cabinet Secretary for local government will be very mindful of.

Cabinet Secretary, as far as Newport is concerned, despite not traditionally being a strong area for the Welsh language, the city council is, I believe, making great strides to promote Welsh and make it more accessible to young people and their families. The opening of a fourth Welsh-medium primary in 2021 increased places available in the city by 50 per cent. Around 94 per cent of pupils in Welsh-medium education come from non-Welsh-speaking homes. To aid the transition to Welsh-medium, Newport City Council provide an immersion provision, through both primary and secondary school, to support that transition. Cymraeg i Bawb are currently hosting a Welsh-medium primary immersion unit at Ysgol Gymraeg Bro Teyrnon, to support all primary-age pupils preparing for Welsh-medium education from year 1 to year 6. There is also provision for years 1 to 6 at a Welsh-medium immersion unit at Ysgol Gymraeg Nant Gwenlli. At secondary, pupils receive immersion support directly through Ysgol Gyfun Gwent Is Coed, with a phased integration into mainstream classes as their Welsh language skills develop. Cabinet Secretary, would you commit to continuing to support these efforts, commendable efforts, in Newport that the city council are taking forward through the implementation of the Act, to ensure that progress is sustained and, indeed, strengthened?

Can I thank John Griffiths for that question, Dirprwy Lywydd, and agree with him that the efforts that have been made by the city council in Newport in recent years have been exemplary in the support that they have shown to the language? The success of late immersion in the south-east of Wales has exceeded the expectations that were there when we began to invest further in that form of provision. I think, remarkably, Dirprwy Lywydd, 8,000 students have benefited from late immersion centres since we started to provide a grant for that purpose at the start of this term. So, that's during this one term we've seen this remarkable growth in the success of late immersion. Newport I think has been an astounding example of that, at primary and secondary level.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I said in my answer to Cefin Campbell that I've been much encouraged by the enthusiasm that we've seen out there amongst schools, and particularly amongst late immersion centres, for the new possibilities that the Act provides—coming forward, asking to be part of pilot approaches and so on. We heard earlier during the session about the success of the Taith programme. A number of schools in Wales have used the Taith programme to visit schools in other parts of the world, to look at how the code and the common European framework is being put to work in bilingual contexts. So, schools from Wrexham have visited Canada, and a visit is about to happen from Ysgol Panteg and canolfan drochi hwyr Carreg Lam in Torfaen—just adjacent to the Member's own area—who are going to Japan as part of the Taith programme. Part of the reason for them going there will be to look at the way the CEFR is used in that linguistic context. We're looking forward to receiving a report from them when they return to Wales next month.

Because that enthusiasm that's out there is probably the most precious asset we have in relation to the Welsh language. I said in my opening statement, Dirprwy Lywydd, that that goodwill towards the language was, I believe, reflected in that unanimous support for the Bill when it was finally voted on here, and something that most political parties in Wales are absolutely committed to continuing.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and diolch for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I think that most people in Wales value our beautiful Welsh language. It's part of who we are, our culture, and we too want to see it thrive. But I am concerned that some of your aims aren't based on the reality of what is happening on the ground, with this huge recruitment and retention crisis that we have in Wales. Around 40 per cent of new teachers leave within four years, and we are still not attracting those numbers into teacher training, particularly, as has already been said, in those core subjects being taught in the Welsh language, which is a real problem. This new Act is putting more duties and rules on schools that are already struggling in this regard. Teachers are exhausted, resources are stretched, as you recognise, and there simply aren't enough trained staff in the Welsh language to deliver these plans properly.

I therefore ask you how realistic you think it is that you will be able to fix that before the deadlines that you have outlined, before adding another layer of pressure to those schools in this Act. There absolutely needs to be a priority, I would suggest, on fixing this workforce plan and getting something in place before that target. I actually think, in this regard, there should be a greater emphasis on it and more ambition in tackling this, because I think that is quite a long timeline. It's quite far away, 2036. You're certainly not going to be able to offer people in my constituency, for example, in Monmouthshire, more Welsh language education if we're not going to have those teachers able to teach in those settings. Diolch.

Well, thank you very much to Laura Anne Jones for that question. I have no reason at all to doubt her personal commitment to a successful future for the Welsh language. I generally don't think that it is helpful to bandy the word 'crisis' about. There is a challenge, quite definitely, in making sure that we have the workforce for the future, but a great deal is already going on, and there's more that we know that we can do. So, the Member points to the fact that people leave teaching, often after three years. That is why we provide a particular bursary to people who teach through the medium of Welsh who stay for a fourth year, and beyond that as well, to try to provide an additional incentive to people to develop their careers in the classroom as teachers of Welsh or people who teach through the medium of Welsh.

We need to do more to develop the skills of those people who are in the workforce already. I think teaching assistants are an undervalued resource in this field. And we do provide significant help to people who are prepared to train to be teachers in the full qualified sense who come through that very useful teaching assistant route, and I think there's more that we can do in that area, and maybe particularly in south-east Wales. Because, as I said in my answers to both Cefin Campbell and Heledd Fychan, I think it was necessary, in order to bring people with us and to sustain people's enthusiasm for the Bill, to give that extra safety net of more time to reach the 10 per cent that we will need in primarily English-medium schools. But I think that once people see the practical ways in which that can be done and the success that that brings we will find that almost all schools manage to do that more quickly.

And then, Dirprwy Lywydd, and the final point, actually, I think once we begin to get a greater return on the investment that we make, particularly in the teaching of Welsh in primarily English schools, actually what this will do will be to lighten the workload. Because people will see that the teaching that they do—and this will be shared by their students—they will see that this is something that is a living language, that they can go out and use, that can be useful to them in securing future employment. And once we've created that benign cycle of investment leading to opportunity, I think that the workload implications of the Act will actually be to the benefit of teachers, rather than to their detriment.

This is a golden opportunity to clean up our rivers and seas, to deliver better value for Welsh bill payers, and to build a water system that’s accountable, transparent and designed in Wales for Wales. It’s about creating a joined-up approach that puts people, nature and future generations at the very heart of decision making. Things need to change, and the truth is that we must do them better.

At present, our water system does not work as well as it should, or as well as it could, for people or for the environment in Wales. Across the country, people are concerned about our waterways, about water bills, and about the quality of the services that we pay for. Our regulatory environment is out of date. Our current model of regulation is a legacy from a time before devolution, rooted in competition. Now, times have changed since then, and it’s right that our approach changes too. That's why we decided to jointly commission this review with the UK Government, and I want to thank everyone who took the time to contribute their views and their expertise. The report’s findings are very clear: our current system must change.

The commission’s report provides a robust and valuable evidence base to guide our reform of the water sector. Its 88 recommendations span the full breadth of the water-management system, from strategic planning to legislative change. While many recommendations apply across England and Wales, the report recognises our distinct context here in Wales. As such, this is an opportunity to shape a system that reflects our values, our priorities and our long-term needs.

One of the key recommendations from the commission is to create a new economic regulator for water in Wales. I can confirm that we will take this forward and we will work closely with the UK Government to enable this. Further, I believe that a dedicated, stand-alone regulator, incorporating water system planning functions, is the best way to serve Wales's long-term interests. This approach would enable a more holistic and integrated system for managing water, one that balances our national priorities with local needs, encourages people to work together and supports investor confidence. We intend to consult on this proposal later this year to ensure that the regulatory framework we develop is fit for purpose and aligned with our ambitions for water reform.

Now, as Members will know, in Wales we have a legislative foundation that empowers us to think long term, act collaboratively and deliver holistically. A new regulatory system for water must make the most of that. We will move towards a more ethical, collaborative approach. This means embracing shared objectives, where the environmental costs and the impacts of sustainable water management are considered alongside the affordability of water bills. We will embed sustainability, fairness, health, equality and resilience into the very fabric of our water system.

In order to deliver on the scale of our ambition, Government must set the national, long-term strategic direction for all aspects of water management, ranging from water supply to resilience to climate change. We will provide clarity on ministerial priorities, ensuring accountability and cross-sectoral alignment. Now, these reforms will enable us to move from fragmented planning to system-level planning, balancing our national priorities with local needs and fostering collaboration across sectors, from agriculture and housing to industry and transport.

The water sector in Wales is already different from that across the border. We are fortunate to have the UK’s only not-for-profit water company, alongside a small, Wales-only provider. Both are well positioned to work closely with Government as we shape a distinctive, future-facing approach for Wales. Our vision for the future is a water system for Wales, designed in Wales, delivering for Wales, and making that vision into a reality also means new powers for Wales. We are committed to securing the necessary powers for the Senedd, which would, if agreed, for the first time, enable the Senedd to legislate in relation to the economic regulation of water and the alignment of regulatory functions to our borders in the water industry. 

Now, we should be under no illusions whatsoever. The scale and the breadth and the complexity of water sector reform is significant. It will take work and it will take time. We must work together to ensure coherence across borders, stability for markets and clarity for stakeholders. That’s why we will co-design a shared transition plan with the UK Government—a road map that will set out the route to a new water system in Wales. This plan will be essential to maintaining public confidence and investor trust during the transition period.

We will also work with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to maintain essential functions in Wales, such as those of the Drinking Water Inspectorate, and to ensure that reforms in England do not inadvertently undermine the integrity of our system here in Wales. I understand that public confidence and investor trust are not a given; they must be earned. And that is why we will put in place transitional arrangements, including an interim strategic policy statement to Ofwat, and a steer to other regulators, providing clarity. This statement will articulate our policy priorities during the transitional phase, and help ensure continuity and coherence. We must also work together with the people of Wales to shape the detail of these proposals, so I intend to set out our vision for water reform in Wales later this year, to seek views from a wide range of stakeholders, ranging from domestic and business customers to regulators, investors and water companies. And alongside economic regulation, that vision includes alignment of all water functions to the Welsh border; a greater focus on asset health and climate resilience; stronger environmental regulation and catchment-level solutions; continued support for independent customer advocacy; and exploration of a new ombudsman for water in Wales.

Again, we must be realistic about the timeline for reform. There is a need for primary legislation in the UK Parliament, followed by primary legislation in Wales and a detailed implementation phase. Full implementation will take time, given the need to design and deliver our system once we have secured further powers for the Senedd. As I have said, this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity, and we must take the time to get this right. I hope the Members across the Chamber will recognise this as an opportunity to rethink water regulation so that it is more integrated, with more strategic focus on Wales's needs, and with trade-offs and implications for other policy priorities, like housing and affordability of bills, built into the way things are planned and prioritised and funded, right from the very beginning. We have a chance to shift the current competition model of regulation to one that works for Wales.

Thank you, Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs. It's such an important statement that's been made here today. Too many of us, as Members in our own constituencies, have seen so many occasions where the quality of the water is not fit for purpose. We've seen so many issues—in my own constituency last year—in terms of water infrastructure. Everybody, now, and certainly our constituents, is becoming well aware of how problematic this is for us.

You know my view from recent responses I've made. I genuinely believe that the findings of the water commission should form the basis of a water (Wales) Bill. We need legislative change. It's more than apparent when considering findings such as this that there has been no actual report on progress made with the water strategy for Wales 2015 for almost a decade. That's just unacceptable. We know there's a need to strengthen the polluter-pays principle—those people damaging our water. And it is not always the farmers. The water companies themselves, and other companies as well, undermine any attempts to try and sort out and provide fresh drinking water for our residents. There are over 100 pieces of legislation relevant to how water is regulated in Wales. Barriers are more overcome in spite of legislation not because of it. You mentioned the 88 recommendations from this report. I'm so pleased, Cabinet Secretary, that you are listening, because we've had so many debates in this Chamber about this issue, and I would say that you have listened to the report and its recommendations. You've already highlighted that reform will take time, but I've got to ask: how long? What timescales are you predicting? Can you give any indications when the water sector could be on a new legislative footing by?

I welcome the fact that the economic regulator is to be independent—I think we would all welcome that—and not part of NRW, because too often, when we've had an incident in my constituency, the water company themselves will say, 'It's all right, Janet, we've reported ourselves to NRW.' I then go and write to NRW and, to be honest, the response time from them is not good, to say the least; not when you have constituents writing in on a daily basis. Do you know at this stage whether the regulator will act as a national system planner, direct funding, lead on producing a strategic plan, assess current conditions, and will they put forward their own set of national objectives?

The Cunliffe report also highlights the idea of integrating flood planning into the systems planner. So, we've been calling for that from these benches for quite some time now. We would like to see flooding taken away from NRW. Will you co-operate with me to explore further the possibility of establishing a flood and water agency for Wales, which would inherit all responsibilities NRW have for flooding and water, and act as part of that national system planner?

I am sympathetic to the vision for the future where a water system for Wales is designed in Wales and delivers for Wales. However, the last thing we want is a move forward that results in major cross-border complexity. So, I liked where you said that you will be working very, very closely with the UK Government on this. For example, establishing a single river basin district for Wales would involve splitting responsibility for the Severn river basin district along the border, with the creation of a Severn district in England and the Welsh side moving under the remit of a Welsh systems planner. So, for this to work, going forward, and to bring about fundamental and real change, we certainly do need that cross-border working to be very tight.

The report highlights there would need to be a robust set of protocols in place for managing cross-border water systems. This could include developing a shared set of principles for how they should be managed, for example, a duty to co-operate, an agreement to share monitoring data, or a duty to consult on planned measures that could have cross-border impacts. Finally, what plans, Cabinet Secretary, do you and your colleagues in London have for ensuring that Wales and England have the best possible and most robust approach to cross-border working? Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Janet. Can I just welcome your response to the statement today? I genuinely think this is a golden opportunity to reset our regulation within Wales, something that works for Wales, but works for Wales on those economic, social and environmental considerations right across the piece, from word 'go'. But it will take a bit of time. You asked how long. Well, I mentioned in my opening remarks it will need UK legislation, which they will need to consult on and engage with stakeholders. It will also take a fair degree of working out, because in the establishment of new bodies, both in England and in Wales, it's a fair bit of engagement with stakeholders as well.

This will mean, actually, the bringing forward of legislation here in Wales, subsequent to the legislation in England, which we will engage with them on as well, to make sure that it works for them, and it works for us as well in not undermining anything we're trying to set up here. I think the IWC report was very helpful in recognising where there were cross-border, cross-Government issues, but also where there was distinct difference in the approach here. So, we will need legislation. You'll be pleased to see that coming forward on this, but it will take time, and we could be looking at several years to actually bring this through and properly engage and design the system, but we need to get this right.

Thank you for commenting that I have listened. I have indeed, but I'm also very thankful to those who took forward the report and brought forward the 88 recommendations, because they certainly listened as well, both in England and in Wales, with a lot of their evidence.

Our view is indeed that there should be an independent economic regulator. It was one of the commission's recommendations for a separate independent economic regulator for Wales. We'll work closely with the UK Government now to enable this to happen. So, our focus is on establishing that economic regulation function in Wales and developing that approach that works in our context in Wales. The IWC recommended that this function could—could—be housed within NRW, but I believe that there is merit in considering an independent stand-alone body that will offer greater flexibility and focus in delivering economic regulation of the water industry, tailored to Wales's specific needs. And just to say, it provides us with different opportunities than those available in England. So, the right solution for England and the right solution for Wales may be different, as the commission's report reflects, and, by the way, in the same way that Scotland has taken a distinctive approach for Scotland as well.

I just want to touch on the aspect of the cross-border functions. My vision is very, very clear, it's a water system for Wales, designed in Wales, delivering for Wales, but we must carefully design and develop any cross-border functions so that they are governed by cross-Government agreement and set up either using the common frameworks that we have in place, or by inter-governmental concordats or other ways of understanding. So, we'll make sure that that does happen as well. 

So, thank you, Janet, for your positive response to this and we look forward to working with you and others to take forward these proposals.

I'll try to address most of them here. First of all, yes, we are engaging with Scotland. They have different models about how they've done regulation, so we don't have to think automatically that what we'd have is something that would look like an Ofwat version in Wales. It could be a different approach that we could look at, particularly if we're going to balance from the outset different priorities as well, in line with the Welsh policy framework and legislation. But we are engaging with Scotland.

The UK Government also, like us, have signalled that they want to commit to taking this forward at pace. We're already engaged with the UK Government, Delyth, on their proposals. As I've said already, we want to engage with them to make sure that their legislation in England is right for them, but also doesn't undermine anything that we're trying to do here. We anticipate that we would be bringing forward legislation here within this Senedd, although I appreciate that this will be a future Government doing this, in 2028. That's what we would be aiming for, and it will take that couple of years in order to do the groundwork on the legislation, but also the consultation and the engagement at the moment.

So, our immediate next steps will be to continue working with the UK Government to support the UK Government White Paper, which they're bringing forward, and transition plans, and then bringing forward a Welsh Government Green Paper in order that we can have a bit—something more—. We're going to set a direction of travel, clearly, within that. I've set it out today, but we want there to be the ability, a bit greener rather than whiter, so that we can have some input from stakeholders and some adjustments there. And also then we’ll be bringing forward our own transition plan and our own interim strategic policy statement. We intend to do those, Delyth—those steps—within the next few months, so we're going to hit this at pace, and so is the UK Government.

Let me turn to the matter of what the water companies can get on with right now, because they don't have to wait. So, the IWC report made a series of recommendations in relation to water companies, their governance and their management. Well, let me say quite clearly that this is an opportunity for water companies in Wales to embrace those recommendations and actually make progress now, ahead of future legislation—they don't have to wait. However, during this transition period and beyond, it's also very important to ensure that investment in Wales is viable and that we set that clear, strategic direction to build confidence for investment, because it's that stability that actually then gives the protection as well to customers and their bills. So, we need to carefully manage company expectations and set reasonable timescales for them to deliver necessary changes, whilst also delivering required improvements as part of the current asset management period 8 and delivering their core functions.

I think I've covered most of the issues you asked about there, Delyth, but there were quite a few questions in there. I'm happy to discuss further as well.

I very much welcome the statement. Currently, we have very expensive water bills and serious problems with pollution. Pollution concerns are now third behind health and housing in the e-mails I get from constituents. Rising water bills are a concern for many people across Wales, including from people who are worried not only about the cost, but also about the quality of the service that they're paying for. What reassurance will the Minister give to the people of Wales who are worried about these reforms? What difference will these reforms make to the things my constituents are faced with every day, worried about water bills and the state of our rivers, including raw sewage entering the River Tawe? In Swansea pre 1974, water was run successfully by Swansea council. Since then, we've had lots of changes, including almost the complete end of the building of reservoirs. I don't believe that we have benefitted from any of these changes. I actually support the public ownership of water.

Diolch, Mike. Public ownership of water companies wasn't part of the remit of the IWC, led by Sir Jon Cunliffe, but I note your point on your position on public ownership of water companies.

What assurance can we give to people in Wales? Well, it's both in terms of the regulatory reform that we've laid out, which would, from its very onset, not only deal with the current competition-led approach to economic regulation, but embed within that regulation the needs of our rivers, healthy waterways, affordable bills for customers and so on, and we do that from the get-go. So, it's not the 1980s-style competition-driven model that we currently have, it would be very different indeed.

But I've always outlined, Mike, that I intend to set out, within the coming weeks, the Welsh Government's vision for water reform in Wales. We'll do that very soon. And we want to do that to seek views from a wide range of stakeholders, but, in doing that, that vision will include stronger environmental regulation and catchment-level solutions, continued support for that independent customer advocacy, and also that greater focus on asset health and climate resilience. So, we deal with those issues of leakages, but we also deal with the issue of water quality.

I think we can be confident in taking this forward, though there is a lot of work to be done. This is an opportunity for a fundamental reset of the way that we approach water regulation, but also that vision for water within Wales. And it will be to the satisfaction, Mike, of your residents in Swansea, but also throughout Wales, because it will deal with water in a holistic, systems-based approach from the get-go.

Good afternoon, Cabinet Secretary. Just following on from Mike, the issue around water pollution is raised with us so often. Particularly, as you'll know, in the region I cover, Mid and West Wales, we have considerable water pollution incidents.

One of the key issues here has to be the performance of Dŵr Cymru, because they are responsible, surely, in terms of water pollution, and their responsibilities to ensure that our water is clean. You mention Dŵr Cymru is a not-for-profit agency, and yet I've raised here in the Siambr the pay that goes out to the chief executive of Dŵr Cymru. There is a new chief executive, Roch Cheroux. He is to receive £460,000 a year, plus the potential to earn an additional £621,000. Shameful, really. And last week, we saw that Dŵr Cymru had its £1.35 million fine for more than 800 permit breaches cut to just £120,000.

The issue here is about public confidence. When we see these issues in terms of finances in Dŵr Cymru occurring, it really gives the public here in Wales absolutely no confidence in their performance or their ability to reward, when they shouldn't be polluting our rivers. So, I'd like to hear from you, please, if I may—. I'm conscious the timer has gone, so I can carry on for a couple of hours. I'd like to hear from you, if I may, Cabinet Secretary: what are you doing in order to address Dŵr Cymru, their poor performance, and particularly this issue, which is really getting to the public, around how much pay their chief executive receives and the lack of real consequences in terms of fines? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Jane. As I mentioned before—I'm not sure whether this was a call to renationalise water companies, as we heard from Mike there as well—that wasn't in the terms of reference of the Jon Cunliffe review. However, you are absolutely right in what you're saying; we need Dŵr Cymru to perform. There are several areas where for many years it has been underperforming—in leakages from its antiquated pipe network, but also in terms of things such as the number of spillages and the sewage.

Just to make clear as well, though, Dŵr Cymru is not the only source of pollution in our rivers, and I wouldn't want that to be reflected in this debate today. Indeed, the uplift in our bills that everybody has seen landing on their doorsteps this year needs to be put, in a very prioritised, at-pace way, towards delivering the improvements to pollution that is coming out of the antiquated network, whether that's from combined sewer overflows or elsewhere within Dŵr Cymru, and Hafren Dyfrdwy as well. But there are also pressures from traditional mine working and quarrying that pollute stretches of our rivers. There is agriculture and farming and land use with nutrient and phosphate run-off. Sometimes we get focused on one, and we go hitting at one source, when actually we need to focus on all the sources of pollution.

But you are right, Dŵr Cymru need to play their part within this. As I made clear in response to a previous answer, regardless of the major regulatory reforms that we have now, this opportunity to seize within the current AMP 8, this period going forward where everybody's seeing their bills rise, Dŵr Cymru need to perform. In the meetings that I have regularly with them, even though they're not a company that are run by the Welsh Government, it is very clear to the chair and the chief executive, and the new chief executive, our demands as Welsh Government on the improvement of their performance.

And they need to do it as well, I have to say, for the wider Welsh public. The not-for-profit or not-for-dividend model that they operate under does deliver some benefits. One of those is the social tariff that Dŵr Cymru operate under, which is more generous, I have to say—not often commented on—than other privatised water companies throughout the UK. But we need them to perform not just on that, but on every aspect of their performance, and they know that. Sorry, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I think the biggest challenge to any water company is climate change. There's no question about it. We've had droughts and we're having floods, and we're having them at different times of the year, not necessarily when we might expect it. So I think, when we're talking about moving forward together with the UK Government, we have to look at every single policy, because water affects every single policy, whether it's planning, land management, whether it's water management, whether it's sewage; it all affects our watercourses. 

But of course, we've also got the cross-border issue, because the Wye and the Severn don't stop, they just keep flowing. So what I'd be interested in here is whether you're going to take an approach with the UK Government, when they're bringing in legislation, to think water, because a lot of the legislation is going to come in before, perhaps, the final legislation that makes everybody think about water. So it'd be a nonsense, in my view, to start bringing in legislation now, new regulations after this announcement, without that in mind.

Yes, indeed. The reason that this report has come forward is because it was jointly commissioned by the Welsh Government and the UK Government. It has been jointly delivered by the UK Government and the Welsh Government, and that's the way we intend to take this forward, recognising the difference in Wales, but recognising we also need to work across borders.

Even before this proposal for regulatory reform and system change and all the other recommendations within the IWC report, we'd already started on that cross-border working. So, curiously, on issues such as the Wye, there’s additional investment there that's from UK and Welsh Government in order to drive forward the work that's currently going on with the Wye and Usk Foundation, and so on. We need to do more of that.

But yes, you're right, and I think a common theme of the discussion today is that whilst this is a real golden opportunity to do that once-in-a-generation reset of the regulation around the water industry and set out that coherent vision for what it looks like, we don't have to wait. There's much that we can actually get on with right here, right now, whether it's the water companies or whether it's the work that we're doing on the water summit to deal with water pollution, agricultural pollution, development pressures, et cetera. There's so much that we can get on with right here, right now.

But meanwhile, we need to seize this opportunity, and I thank Members for their comments and what seems to be strong support for taking these measures forward.

Dirprwy Lywydd, on Thursday I will hold the first public accountability meeting with Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board. Over the coming months, I will meet each NHS organisation as part of an annual cycle of holding the NHS to account for meeting our priorities. These meetings will be available to anyone to watch online. This will help us increase confidence in the system of accountability by opening the doors to the NHS. These are crucial steps in improving transparency in the NHS in Wales. This is important for the public, and it is critical for health organisations too.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I now turn to data. Over the course of the last year, we have made more data available about NHS performance than ever before. We publish a quarterly report about how health boards are performing against key emergency and planned care measures. Pathways of care delay data is now publicly available for the first time, as are ambulance handover delays measured at each individual hospital site.

We've made recent changes to the Welsh ambulance service's clinical model, as Members will know, in response to recommendations from the Senedd's Health and Social Care Committee. Since August, we now report on more meaningful outcome-based measures. This includes the return of spontaneous circulation and information about the time it takes for CPR and defibrillation following a cardiac arrest for all purple calls. We will be reporting similar granular detail against new clinical indicators for red and the new orange category of 999 calls for people with time-sensitive complaints like stroke.

Dirprwy Lywydd, despite the opposition’s best attempts to portray it as 'manipulating the data', since August, we have also provided the public with more up-to-date information about waiting times. The monthly report now includes provisional figures for the longest waits for the latest full calendar month, in addition to the official position, which is two months in arrears. This approach has received the stamp of approval from the UK statistics regulator and gives the public a clearer and, crucially, more timely picture about the waiting times' position in Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm keen that we continue to use data to drive ongoing improvement in the NHS. The three-year NHS Wales planning framework asked health organisations to focus on a smaller number of priorities and set out our key asks of the system. I am committed to publishing each organisation’s performance against those metrics and actions. I am working with the NHS, Welsh Government and our statistics colleagues to now put this data in the public domain.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the final part of the transparency and accountability matrix is how the NHS uses public feedback to shape and refine its services. Last week the Senedd approved regulations that will reform the NHS complaints and redress system. The new system, Listening to People, will come into force from April next year and will support greater openness and greater transparency if something goes wrong. However, that’s only part of the picture. Llais has replaced the network of community health councils to give people a stronger voice in their health and social care services. It exists to ensure the voices and experiences of people are at the heart of health and social care planning, delivery and improvement. We launched the people’s experience framework in April to ensure that people’s feedback is systematically captured and used across NHS services. One of the main planks is the bilingual online digital platform, which is used by all NHS organisations to capture real-time feedback from patients. While the NHS is getting better at collecting feedback about services, the next step is to systematically use this valuable information to influence service planning and design. It is my clear expectation that all NHS organisations embed patient feedback, lived experience and engagement into service design, delivery and improvement.

There is a clear opportunity for patient reported experience measures, PREMs, and patient reported outcome measures, PROMs, which provide real-time insights into the quality and impact of care from the patient's perspective, to be used when planning services and in developing the integrated medium-term plan. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, if we want better health services, as we do, we must have transparent NHS organisations. Transparency will drive, ultimately, a cycle of learning and improvement, which we all know will only be beneficial to the NHS and to Wales in the long term.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement today? I don't think anybody in this Chamber can argue against a more transparent NHS, because we need to make sure that all the public are confident when they use it and when they make complaints.

I want to pick up some things that you mentioned in your statement, Cabinet Secretary. You mentioned about health boards conducting their business in public, and it's very important that they do that, but what is seen by a lot of people out there is that, sometimes, health boards do conduct their business in public, but public perception isn't being taken into account in those decision-making processes. We look at Bronglais, the town and community hospitals, the Powys County Council issues in my own constituency-people feel that things are done to them, and when they ask for the reasons behind why those decisions have been made, minutes can't be found, the decision seems to have been made in the dark. So, I'd just like some further information from you on how we can make that part of the system more transparent.

You also talked about maternity services and neonatal services, and I had the pleasure this morning, along with the Minister Sarah Murphy, of meeting with Sands and bereaved parents from there. It was actually a very eye-opening experience for me. A lot of them talked about health boards not learning. We had the review in Cwm Taf Morgannwg, but things are still going wrong in other health boards. So, we talked about transparency there. I'd be interested to know, on that side of things, what you're doing to make sure that best practice that comes out of these reviews is going across the system, because that makes health boards more transparent and gives parents and bereaved families a lot more confidence in that system.

I am pleased, Cabinet Secretary, that you're going out and talking to health boards—that's a welcome step, and you're doing it in public. But what I'm interested to find out is, if you're unhappy with some of the responses that you're given from the health boards in terms of the priorities of the Government or some of the public questions, which I know you're probably going to be asking as well, and things that we ask in this Chamber, what is the accountability going to be there for you? How can you then directly influence change within those health boards to make sure they're acting on things that you want to be seen done as the Government? Because we've seen before the Government can set priorities, but health boards have got their own visions and views of how they'd like them to be delivered. So, I'd like to know how you're going to do that.

You talked about data. It's always welcome to have more data. I think it does inform good decision making across the piece. But we've got to make sure that all that data is coded properly, and that we're actually checking and verifying all that data. So, I'd like to know how you're doing that in individual health boards to make sure it's all coded, verified and gone forward to make sure we've got 100 per cent of coded data there within the system.

On that as well, we've talked to you about this before, about the handover on ambulances outside A&E departments. We know corridor care is a problem, and I'm being told by clinicians across Wales that it's getting worse, not better. So, would you be content to share that data on corridor care to show how many people are waiting in corridors right the way across Wales, and also would you commit to making a never event as well? Because I think that would go some way to also making people feel the NHS is more transparent, and also more accountable. 

Can I also mention as well, Cabinet Secretary, listening to people? I said this at the start: service design is going to be important going forward for all health boards across Wales. And I want to know from you: how are you going to make sure that the public can feed into those service redesigns, so that they feel that they're actually being listened to and health boards are taking that forward?

You did mention about Llais, and I think Llais do good work. They are doing good work in this space. But I think they need more teeth. I think they'd be able to hold health boards more to account. So, I'd like to know from you how you think Llais could be given more powers to actually hold those health boards to account. Because all they tend to do is the job that we do, really: we write to the health boards and get a response back, and that tends to be the end of the matter. I'd actually quite like to see how Llais could hold them more to account. I think that would also help. You mentioned PREMs and PROMs—lovely little acronyms that you've given them—but I'd like to know, on those, how were they received by the clinicians in our hospitals? How were they received by the managers, directors in hospitals and how can they improve that patient experience?

Cabinet Secretary, it's a welcome statement, and I commend the Government for its work in trying to make the NHS more transparent. People need to have confidence in the NHS, confident it's doing work, and when people make complaints or go to the health board for advice, as I said, we need to make sure it is more transparent and more accountable to the public.

I'm grateful to the Member for those questions. There's a range of questions. I'll answer them briefly so that I can cover them all because they all are, I think, really important questions. I'm keen to engage with the substance of the Member's challenges.

So, I think there is a fair challenge around the point the Member opened with, and he touched on it later, around how the public have confidence that their views about how services evolve are taken fully into account, and there's a proper, appropriate opportunity for that to happen. I think one of the challenges, which is true in all parts of the health service, is that the point at which the health service engages the public most directly, generally speaking, is triggered by a service change. So, there is a requirement in law to do that, obviously, and the dialogue, then, is always in the context of a difficult choice that the health board is facing, which, to a large proportion of the public, may be unpopular. That's the context for that conversation. That's a very challenging conversation to have in any circumstances, really. It's one that's essential, but, actually, what one would hope you'd have is an ongoing dialogue with the public about the nature of health services, of patients' own experience, patients' own responsibilities, the range of services available in the community, as well as through the public NHS, so a much more granular, ongoing, increasingly sophisticated conversation with the public, which is also open about the vulnerabilities and challenges and fragilities in the system, so stroke is very, very good example of that. Unless we have a more open conversation with the public about the pressure that current stroke services are under, the dialogue is only ever going to be about, 'I want 100 per cent of the services on my doorstep', and no health service is going to be able to provide that. All the evidence we have, everywhere, globally, tells us that is not the best way of having stroke delivered, but it's really challenging to have that conversation, because it's hard to talk to people about the fragility in the current service. So, there is something about a much more mature, open dialogue, and that has to be a more continuous dialogue, I think.

The Member made a very important set of points about service improvement. He'll remember from the ministerial advisory group report—there are some very specific recommendations in there. Actually, many of them echo the points we were making around the enabling actions, as we call them, in the planning framework of last year. So, there's about 35 actions, which I have said that each health board needs to put in place. They're mandatory, they're not optional, none of them are new. So, some of those are about making sure you're doing enough cataracts on your list, doing enough knees and hips on your list, meeting the standards that we expect in all parts of the NHS. So, that's why I'm committing to publishing that information, so that Members and the public are able to see what is happening. The same point applies to maternity and neonatal services. The national assessment, which is currently under way, is designed to do exactly that—identify where the good practice is in the system, where the system is learning well, but also identify where the expectations, already in reviews, already in reports, which the service should be implementing, where that's happening, where it's not happening, if it's not happening, and what we can do about it. And that will be a very open process.

On the public accountability meetings, there is a range of things that can follow from where health boards aren't delivering to national priorities. So, from a ministerial point of view, the line of accountability is through the chair. So, it is open to me to make choices not to reappoint a chair, to dismiss a chair, there are consequences through the chief executive accountability, we can put boards into escalation, we can issue ministerial direction. And all of those things have happened, and all of those things are available to ministers and officials, to make sure that performance matches the priorities that the Government sets.

The Member had a very important set of questions about coding data. Sometimes, this is a challenge, and there is a long way to go for us to get that into a better place. There is a lot of work going on in the cancer space, which we discuss in the Chamber, very often about delivering more granularity of data, about particular tumour sites, subsets of information, and there's good progress now happening in that space, which will enable us to be much more open. Corridor care is one of the areas where I'm working with the health service to be able to publish more of that information, so that work is under way at the moment.

He made an important point at the end about Llais. I think, actually, it's not a question of powers. The real opportunity, I think, as we provide more and more information, is how Llais can help over time—it's a young organisation, still—to interpret that data for the public, for Members here and for others, so that what will become an increasing body of data doesn't become a way of obscuring performance, which is sometimes the risk with a lot of data, but becomes a tool in the hands of trusted intermediaries who can then help explain to the public and to all of us what's happening in the system.

'The fish rots from the head.'

Thank you for your statement today. I think holding public accountability meetings with health boards and then having them available online for our constituents to view will lift a veil, if you like. I think you just mentioned that NHS Wales is a complex organisation; it's a very large organisation, and I think, often, when constituents contact us as their elected representative, they've tried to find a way forward themselves. They've exhausted many avenues, and often we're a last resort, and I think what you're proposing today will go a long way to building trust with the health boards, with our constituents, and I think progress will be watched very, very carefully and with interest.

Specifically, I was particularly interested in the changes to the Welsh ambulance clinical model that you've introduced, and you obviously considered recommendations from our Health and Social Care Committee when you did that. So, could you outline your expectations regarding ambulance response times, particularly in north Wales, particularly in north-east Wales, and I suppose particularly in Wrexham? I'm very interested, because, around the Maelor hospital, you'll be aware of issues in relation to ambulances being sat outside the emergency department for far too long a time, and I've raised this with you via correspondence on many occasions.

Thank you for those questions. We have a two-stage approach to transparency in terms of ambulance services. We've already implemented the new transparency measures in relation to the purple and the red category, and, as the new review of the other categories comes forward, we'll be taking a similarly transparent approach in relation to reporting those—so, obviously, numbers of calls, but also median times to identify cardiac arrest, to commence CPR, for defibrillator arrival; so, a much more granular set of measures, which will help us understand what more can be done across the system to improve performance.

In relation to handover specifically, this is one of the areas where we've seen improvement, actually, right across the system. There's no part of Wales that hasn't actually improved as a consequence of this renewed national focus on the handover time. The expectation is, of course, that we do everything we can to hand over within 15 minutes. That is not a standard that is being met everywhere. Actually, the fallback is that the 45-minute standard is met. What we have seen—and I think two very good examples of this are in Morriston Hospital, in the ED there, and actually in the Grange, where we know that there have been challenges in the past, and there are still challenges from time to time—is really very significant improvement in those handover times, and we can see the data. The data's available to all parts of the NHS, and actually what we have recently seen is, in your constituency and across north Wales, better relationships being developed with managers and clinicians in Swansea bay, but also in Hywel Dda, which has also seen improvement, to learn from what's happened there so we can improve those handover times.

But I'm absolutely clear: we've got to see better performance in relation to the 45-minute handover time. It is not just a question of what's happening in the emergency department—as you will know, it's a much more integrated question than that; it's about the entire system of the hospital and, indeed, the community provision. But I'm clear that publishing that information is a critical way to improve performance, and it's not about creating a league table and it's not about saying, 'This hospital is better, generally', it's about looking at individual services and saying, 'Where can the system learn from good performance?'

You're obviously right: transparency is key to accountability and also learning and, importantly, applying lessons on a path to improvement and progress. I particularly welcome your references in the statement to how the NHS uses public feedback to shape and refine services, and also embedding lived experiences into service design, delivery and improvement. That's something that it became clear to me is something that would be welcomed from the NHS survey I carried out locally last year. But can I ask today, perhaps, looking at that lived experience and how it shapes services, what it would mean for the workforce? Are there ways in which we can ensure that health boards not only involve their workforce in shaping services, but actually in shaping a positive work environment as well, to make sure that staff are treated with support and dignity and that anything that needs rectifying can be done in partnership and in a way that supports the workforce that our public services rely on, day in, day out? Diolch.

I think that is really a very important question. I think the feedback—. As the Member mentioned, from a patient point of view, I think there is a lot more that can be done, either through the patient-reported experience measures, which is PREMS, or the patient-reported outcomes measures, PROMS, which will tell the health service what the service that the patient has received has meant to the patient. And there is much more that can be done in that space than is being done at the moment. You could imagine reimagining the whole health service around those measures, really. So, what does it mean in the life of this individual patient? What do they really want out of this service? Have we given them the service they wanted? We will often find that what we are signposting them to or directing them to is a pathway that may not always be, in fact, what they want. We see, quite often, with older people who are encouraged to have surgery, quite high levels of regret afterwards because of the traumatic nature of it. So, I think there is something about how you can use a more qualitative, sophisticated conversation to make better judgments about the treatments that are available.

But I think the Member made a very important point in relation to how one can capture the experience of the workforce in some of this. I think we talk a lot about compassionate leadership in the NHS, which I think is absolutely the right value, but, really, that's also about making sure that we're leading from the workforce point of view in that way. There was a very interesting piece of work that Llais led on recently around speaking to the workforce—and patients as well, actually—about changes that the NHS could introduce that would improve services but also make it easier to be at work. So, I think there's quite interesting learning from that sort of initiative as well.

Thank you very much and thank you very much for your statement, and also for publishing these quarterly reports about how different health boards are performing against planned care measures.

I had a look at the urology ones, just because it's something I've had quite a lot of correspondence with in my own health board, and it's very interesting to see that, in Swansea, the average wait time for an initial appointment is eight weeks, and 10 per cent of people are waiting 28 weeks. If you compare that with the challenges we have in Cardiff, where it's 36 weeks on average for the first appointment, and 10 per cent of people are waiting 84 weeks or more—I'm in contact with some of those in that latter—. I just wondered how much granular information there is about the way in which we deliver that first appointment. Is it in the community, or is it in the hospital? Which is the most efficient? All these things are really important, as well as other things that probably aren't captured, around whether a clinician is unwell or had a bereavement—all these things are important and get in the way of being able to treat patients. So, how is this very good data prompting these intelligent conversations between health boards?

Well, I think one of the—. We definitely are not where we need to be in the level of granularity and the qualitative aspect that the Member is referring to, and, often, the data is captured, actually, based on where the site of treatment is, and there are obvious gaps that can arise as a consequence of that. I think one of the challenges, which she's alluding to as well, is that you have some interventions happening in a primary space and some interventions in a secondary space, and the availability of data between primary and secondary is absolutely not where we want it to be. There's a piece of work already under way about the regulatory changes we might need to make in order to support more open, smart sharing of that information in a way that enables us to get to the heart of some of the points that the Member is making.

I think at the heart of it, though, is a readiness to use the data that's there to understand what's going on and to prompt those conversations. So, the Member made some very direct comparisons about urology, and there are other stark comparisons in other parts of the system. What I want to see is that being seen not as a challenge to organisations—although, obviously, it is a challenge—but how one can then learn from the better performance in one part of the system. By publishing those quarterly health board level reports, that does allow us to see, 'Actually, there's success here; actually, there's a real challenge here.' But in a way, more importantly, it should allow those responsible for delivering the service that is under challenge to know where in the system they need to go to learn from positive experience. That is starting to happen; I think it's starting to happen more and more. But we've a long way to go, I think, before that becomes what it needs to be, which is just an expectation in all parts of the system.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to bring the Senedd Cymru (Disqualification) Order 2025 before you today. The purpose of the Senedd Cymru (Disqualification) Order 2025 is to list offices that, if held by an individual, would disqualify that individual from becoming a Member of the Senedd, but not from standing as a candidate to be a Member of the Senedd.

While the Welsh Government believes that disqualification from membership of the Senedd should be restricted to as few citizens as possible, we recognise that political activity is inappropriate for the holders of certain offices. In particular, there is a need to protect certain public offices from political bias and to ensure that the independence of the electoral process is upheld. The 2025 Order will revoke and replace the Senedd Cymru (Disqualification) Order 2020, and will set out an updated list of disqualifying offices before the next Senedd elections. The 2025 Order will take effect at the first Senedd election on or after 6 April 2026.

This disqualification Order continues to build on the recommendations outlined in the then Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee’s work on the inquiry into disqualification in 2014. The criteria used for determining offices and membership of bodies for inclusion in the 2025 Order are based on the principles set out in those recommendations. These criteria uphold the principles of democratic participation and the right to stand as a Member of the Senedd. We continue to list only offices and posts where we believe the post is of such a nature that it needs to be politically impartial or would give rise to a significant conflict of interest.

Development of the 2025 Order took place in two phases. Firstly, we worked across Welsh Government departments to identify any known changes since the previous Order was made in 2020. Secondly, a public consultation was carried out between May and July of this year, with 19 responses received. Several known changes identified through consultation with internal policy officials have resulted in amendments to the Order, including the board of community health councils in Wales being removed, as community health councils were abolished by the Health and Social Care (Quality and Engagement) (Wales) Act 2020.

A number of offices have been added to the 2025 Order, either due to updates in policy or due to their introduction by recent legislation. These offices were identified as known changes or through consultation responses, including members of the Agricultural Advisory Panel for Wales, the Armed Forces Commissioner, the Climate Change Committee, clerks of community and town councils, corporate joint committees, the Independent Football Regulator and the Veterans' Commissioner for Wales. As a result of consultation, members of the Electoral Management Board were also added.

There have also been amendments to the names of offices since 2020. These include the NHS Wales joint commissioning committee, the Commission for Tertiary Education and Research, the Education Tribunal for Wales and the Money and Pensions Service. The descriptions of some of the offices have also been updated to ensure further clarity of the legislation.

I would like to thank those who responded to the consultation, and I would also like to thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their considerations of this legislation. My officials will continue to work closely with key stakeholders to ensure that the Senedd elections next May are run as efficiently as possible, and I look forward to hearing the views of Members. Diolch.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft Order on 6 October. The committee's report contains two merits and scrutiny points. The first reporting point highlights there was a predecessor committee, the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee of the fourth Assembly, which, in a 2014 report, proposed an overhaul of the legislative frameworks surrounding disqualification from membership of the then National Assembly. The Welsh Government's explanatory memorandum states that the criteria for determining which offices were to be included in the Order were based on the principles recommended in that 2014 report.

The committee's second reporting point highlights the offices that have been newly added to the draft Order as disqualified offices. These include all members of the Climate Change Committee and all members of the corporate joint committees. And the question from this is: will this include council leaders and other councillors who are on corporate joint committees, and all members of the Independent Football Regulator? Thank you.

Diolch, Llywydd. As I said, there have been amendments—. I'd just like to thank, first of all, sorry, the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee again, and the Chair for his remarks there. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we had made some of those amendments because the offices have changed. But if the Senedd agrees the motion today, the Order can be submitted to be made bilingually as well at the end of November meeting of the Privy Council, with a proposed coming into force date of 13 November. Without this Order, there would be a significant risk to the 2026 Senedd elections.

Currently, legislation states that poultry meat produced from hens subject to compulsory housing measures may be marketed as free range for the first 12 weeks of such measures, without requiring relabelling, repackaging or additional information at the point of sale. After this 12-week period, poultry meat must be relabelled and repackaged as standard poultry meat. However, as we have seen during the years 2021-22 and 2022-23 avian influenza outbreak seasons, these housing measures have often needed to remain in place for longer than 12 weeks. This has created uncertainty and disruption for producers and consumers alike.

So, the amendment I present today removes the 12-week time limitation. Under the new regulations, poultry meat may continue to be marketed as free range for the full duration of any compulsory housing measures imposed for animal health reasons. This change ensures that our legislation reflects the realities faced by the sector during extended disease outbreaks.

Just to clarify as well, the amendment has been introduced in England, across the European Union and Northern Ireland. In Scotland, the process to introduce the same amendment is under way. A consistent approach would remove any complexity in our interconnected supply chains. Wales is a significant producer of free-range poultry meat in the UK, supplying not just our own communities, but also consumers across the UK and the EU. The amendment provides certainty for our poultry meat industry, stability in our supply chain, and removes any potential disadvantage for our industry.

So, the motion for today's debate, Llywydd, is to agree the Free-Range Poultrymeat Marketing Standards (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2025, which were laid before the Senedd on 30 September.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations on 13 October and subsequently considered the Welsh Government response to the committee's report yesterday.

The committee's report identified two technical reporting points. First, the committee noted inconsistency in the citation of the enabling powers, with the headnotes referring to two provisions in the Agriculture (Wales) Act 2023 and the preamble referring to only one. The committee's view is that these references should be consistent and that the headnotes provide the more accurate citation.

Second, the committee observed that the term ‘the Act’ is used in the preamble without having been previously defined in the regulations. The committee recommended that either the full title of the Agriculture (Wales) Act 2023 is repeated or that the term ‘the Act’ is defined in brackets when it is referenced for the first time.

In its response, the Welsh Government acknowledged the issues raised by the committee and said it would make the necessary corrections prior to making the regulation. Diolch.

I just want to put on record the fact that Plaid Cymru supports this pragmatic change that protects Welsh poultry producers from unnecessary economic harm during disease outbreaks. It is a shame it has taken until now for this to come about, but at least now, as you said, they'll ensure that we're not disadvantaged compared to others in the UK and the wider EU. Mandatory housing, of course, is a public or animal health measure not a change in farming standards, and these regulations therefore avoid unnecessary disruption and costs for producers, and they also maintain consumer clarity, and as such, we will support them. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. I'd like to thank, first of all, the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its consideration of the legislation and, indeed, the reference to the adjustments that have been made in bringing forward the legislation. My thanks, Mike, to you and your Members.

Llyr, I very much welcome the support from Plaid Cymru. We wanted to make sure this worked right for the sector, but also for consumers as well, so we took a little bit of time to engage and consult to get it right. But you are right: bringing this forward means we don't have a disadvantage for the Wales sector as well. So, as I've stated, Llywydd, the amendment will support our free-range poultry meat producers in Wales, it will protect that interconnected supply chain and provide clarity and consistency for the sector, and it will safeguard the future of the sector in Wales and reinforce our position in the UK market. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm very pleased to introduce the Sheep Carcass (Classification and Price Reporting) (Wales) Regulations 2025. These regulations will mandate sheep carcass classification and price reporting for slaughterhouses processing at least 2,000 sheep per week, aligning the sector with existing legislation for the beef and pork industries. Facilities slaughtering at least 1,000 but fewer than 2,000 sheep weekly may opt in voluntarily.

The legislation will also provide a process for the introduction of a system for the authorisation of automated sheep-grading methods for slaughterhouses. These measures will implement a consistent methodology for classifying sheep carcasses in slaughterhouses, thereby promoting transparency, fairness and increased productivity within the sheep market.

So, subject to Senedd approval, the regulations come into force on 28 January 2026, with the exception of those regulations related to automated classification methods, which will come into force on 12 February 2027. This delay is necessary because there is currently no suitable UK-wide visual carcass classification data to provide the necessary data sample to be able to assess and authorise automated classification methods.

Slaughterhouse operators were informed, Llywydd, of our plans to implement these regulations after both the public consultation and a targeted consultation had taken place. The feedback received regarding this proposal was largely positive, with many stakeholders recognising it will enhance transparency across the supply chain for farmers and establish an industry benchmark. Additionally, supporters of the proposal acknowledge the anticipated benefits in fostering and maintaining a more robust market for the industry as a whole.

There are currently four slaughterhouses in Wales that would be subject to the regulations, and the Rural Payments Agency have written to the slaughterhouse operators recently to advise them that the regulations have been laid. There will be some familiarisation, retraining and inspection costs to slaughterhouse operators in complying with the requirements of the regulations, but this will vary depending on each business and is, anyway, expected to be minimal. The current guidance will be revised before the initial commencement date, in co-operation with the Rural Payments Agency, to help operators meet the requirements of the regulations.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank again the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its report on the regulations, which I've noted and to which I have responded. I ask Members to approve these regulations. Diolch.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations on 6 October, and subsequently considered the Welsh Government response to the committee's report yesterday afternoon. The committee report contains one technical reporting point and two merits scrutiny points. The technical reporting point highlights an inconsistent meaning between the English and Welsh texts. Where the English text correctly refers to annex 2, the Welsh text refers to atodlen 2, which I am told translates as schedule 2. The Welsh Government has acknowledged this error and plans to make the required corrections prior to making the regulations.

The first committee merits scrutiny reporting point asked the Welsh Government to clarify why the coming into force date for these regulations is 28 January 2026, when the regulations for England come into force on 12 January. The Welsh Government told the committee that the 12 January date in the regulations for England is an unintended error. The earlier coming into force date in those regulations has no practical effect because the regulations rest on a notification under regulation 4, which can only be made from 28 January. The Welsh Government concluded it would not replicate the unintended error, and the regulations for Wales should come into force on 28 January to align with regulation 4.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's second merits scrutiny point asked the Welsh Government whether the effectiveness of the regulations would be affected by the UK Internal Market Act 2020, and what assessment it has made of the legislative position in Scotland and Northern Ireland in relation to the classification and price reporting of sheep carcasses in the context of that Act. The Welsh Government responded that England and Wales are following the same regime set out in the legislation, and that it's believed that Scotland and Northern Ireland also intend to bring forward legislation reflecting the same regime.

Once again, I just want to welcome these regulations. Aligning the sheep sector with existing beef and pork sector regulations is positive. I think it will, as you say, improve transparency, consistency and fairness in the red meat supply chain. It will enable farmers to make better informed business decisions, hopefully improve productivity as well. So, all round, it's a positive step and hopefully it will benefit farmers, processors and consumers alike.

I hear that Llyr Gruffydd says it will increase transparency, and that's excellent. I'm particularly interested in finding out what happens to the fifth quarter so that we can track whether it's ending up in tasty stews in Welsh school meals, in hospitals and in care homes. Will this classification for sheep, following that of beef and pork, enable us to track the fifth quarter of Welsh sheep from farm to fork?

Thank you very much for that question, Jenny. Just to clarify for Members who might not be aware, how can you have a fifth quarter? Only in farming and in meat processing could there be a fifth quarter. The fifth quarter is offal and other associated produce. There is not a large market for fifth quarter products within this country, hence why we have quite a deal of export, so the splitting of the carcass and the export, which is doing really well, although there is a small growing market within this country as well. But generally speaking, the fifth quarter, Jenny, doesn't appear on our tables or in our hospitals, schools or prison estates.

In terms of these regulations, these regulations relate to classification of the whole carcass, i.e. before it's processed and cut into joints. So, this particular regulation is about getting that consistent, transparent approach to sheep carcass classification across abattoirs, so we have that more productive and fairer market for sheep meat with real transparency.

But there is an interesting point that you raise that is to do with the fifth quarter. This has a big market. It's interesting that, of our domestic lamb production, for example, the majority is indeed exported, and there is a real market for that fifth quarter. I'd be interested in thoughts from people about how we can grow it within this country as well. But it does also command a premium price on the exports as well, so that's quite interesting. But thank you very much, Jenny.

And just finally, Mike, thank you and your Members for your comments to which we've responded, as you laid out. And Llyr, thank you for your support. This is two in a row, I think, that may command the Senedd's support. So, it's a good day for this Minister.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I move the motion and recommend Senedd consent to the relevant provisions in the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill, as set out in the legislative consent motion laid on 11 October 2025. Through this Bill, the UK Government is seeking to create a framework of new, enhanced powers and offences to improve UK border security and to strengthen the asylum and immigration system. It creates new powers and offences, repeals elements of the Illegal Migration Act 2023, and bolsters EU citizens' rights of entry and residency.

The UK Government's own legislative competence analysis of the Bill concluded that, except for a provision granted retrospective statutory authority for fees charged in connection with recognition of professional qualifications, all other provisions are reserved. We agree the vast majority of this Bill is reserved. We also agree that the provision relating to the recognition of professional qualifications, specifically in the field of education, requires Senedd consent. However, we have concluded that one additional provision, which repeals provisions in the Illegal Migration Act, also requires the consent of the Senedd.

The provisions to be repealed relate to the treatment of unaccompanied children in the care of local authorities in Wales. We welcome this repeal, which will remove elements of legislature that the Welsh Government never wanted to see passed, and did not consent to, when the then Illegal Migration Bill was going through Parliament. Details of both these provisions were outlined in the legislative consent memorandum laid on 17 February and the following legislative consent motion laid on 11 October 2025.

Welsh Government officials have undertaken substantial engagement with colleagues in the UK Government regarding this Bill. The UK Government is aware that the Welsh Government analysis has concluded that two provisions in the Bill make relevant provision in relation to Wales that has regard to devolved matters and that Senedd Members are being asked to consider both these provisions.

To conclude, Llywydd, I'd like to thank the committees for considering the content of the Bill and providing constructive scrutiny. In recognition of the positive impacts of elements of this Bill, I recommend the Senedd supports this Bill and gives its consent. Diolch.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee reported on the Welsh Government's legislative consent memorandum for the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill in May. Members will note from the committee's report that the committee has questioned the Cabinet Secretary on the Welsh Government's assessment of which clauses of the Bill trigger the requirements of Standing Order 29 as they make provisions that have regard to devolved matters. On this point, the committee is unconvinced by the Welsh Government argument as regards clause 53 of the Bill as introduced, which is now clause 59 in the latest version of the Bill, as amended in the Lords committee.

The clause contains a regulation-making power for the Secretary of State to make consequential provision. Regulations made under this provision may amend, repeal or revoke any enactment. 'Enactment' includes an enactment contained in or an instrument made under a Measure or Act of Senedd Cymru. The Cabinet Secretary referred to this power as a narrow power when explaining why the consent of the Senedd has not been sought for this clause. For the purpose of Standing Order 29, a relevant provision is a provision in relation to Wales that has regard to devolved matters. Whether that power is narrow or broad is not a determining factor in the assessment as to whether the Standing Order is engaged. Therefore, the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee holds the view that Senedd consent should be sought for this clause along with the other provisions listed in the Government's memorandum.

My party are objecting to the granting of legislative consent for the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill. This Bill is bad for the UK and bad for Wales. The failure to secure our borders and allowing immigration to spiral out of control has put public services under immense strain. The UK cannot continue to see its population grow by 0.75 million each and every year, especially when we see thousands of homeless people die on our streets each year. The last UK Government sought to tackle this head-on by making it clear that high-skilled overseas workers would be welcome, but that we could not have unchecked migration from unskilled economic migrants—that we pride ourselves on providing refuge to genuine asylum seekers, but draw the line on illegal immigration.

Sadly, the current UK Government have torn up previous immigration legislation and introduced the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill, which does nothing to secure our borders or curb net immigration. The Bill that we're being asked to give legislative consent to will, I believe, have the opposite effect. It will act as a draw rather than a deterrent. The legislation is so full of loopholes to UK citizenship that we may as well advertise that the UK has an open invitation to anyone who wants a gold-standard British passport. We should always welcome those who want to make these shores their home, provided they make a net contribution to public funds, abide by British values of democracy and fair play, and integrate into British society. This is what every right-minded citizen believes, but by ignoring their concerns on immigration we have allowed the far right to fester. Until the UK Government brings forward sensible immigration policies, these issues will continue to sow division within our communities.

By refusing consent to this Bill, the Senedd sends a clear message to the UK Government that we need an immigration system that can attract the best and the brightest from around the world, that provides a safety net for refugees, but also places strict limits on the number coming in and contributing to our nation. If you come here illegally, you will be sent back—that is the sort of Bill we need and will consent to. Diolch yn fawr.

While we welcome the provisions included in clause 38 to repeal some of the most draconian and dehumanising elements of the Illegal Migration Act, which, frankly, were an affront to both the responsibilities of this Senedd to unaccompanied asylum-seeking children and to human rights in general, we'll be abstaining on this LCM today on the basis that the Bill as a whole does not go far enough in undoing the toxic legacy of the previous UK Government. 

As has been noted by the likes of the Bevan Foundation and the Refugee and Migrant Children's Consortium, the Bill retains elements of both the IMA 2023 and the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 that undermine the rights of asylum seekers, including, from a Welsh perspective, the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011 and the overarching principle of 'child first, migrant second'. Indeed, in its desperate and counterproductive attempt to co-opt the discourse of the hard right, the current UK Government has also introduced through this Bill further powers that will exacerbate, rather than remove, harm in this area, in particular expanding criteria for criminalising people who have no recourse to safe routes of asylum.

safe routes of asylum.         

I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary, in her response to the Legislation and Justice Committee’s correspondence on the LCM, has reiterated the Welsh Government's concerns regarding the Nationalities and Borders Act 2022. Though the Cabinet Secretary has confirmed that the Act’s thoroughly degrading provisions for scientific methods of age assessment have yet to be used in practice in Wales, as long as they remain on the statute book, they pose a clear threat to the dignity of asylum seekers and children's rights in Wales.

We also have reservations regarding clause 51. Do you agree, Cabinet Secretary, that legislating retrospectively in this way sets a very problematic legal precedent? We also firmly believe that, from a practical standpoint, issuing third-party fees for accessing services, such as visa and nationality programmes, risks perpetuating the problem of debt amongst a group of people whose personal means are, understandably, already precarious. Diolch.

Diolch, Llywydd, and thank you for your contributions. Can I just respond to Mike Hedges on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committees's exchange of correspondence, as you identified and highlighted, Mike Hedges, as the chair? As you said, you were asking why we didn't seek consent for clause 53 of the Bill, and I responded to say, as you acknowledged, that it wasn't included in the LCM as it is a narrow power, which is restricted to making required amendments to existing legislation as a direct consequence of the provision of the Bill coming into force. This power will primarily be used in relation to reserved subject matters, as the majority of the Bill is outside legislative competence.

Can I just thank the children, young people and education and the equality and social justice committees for their scrutiny? They laid their reports back in May, and both committees recommended that the Senedd should grant consent for clauses 38 and 57, and that's what I am focusing on today.

And can I just say, in response to Altaf Hussain, and then following through and responding to Sioned William's points as well—? I want to say, as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, that I welcome the repeal of the provisions in the illegal migration Bill, which were incompatible with Wales's commitment to upholding the rights and welfare of all children, and I'm focusing on those two sections, as I said. I think the action we'll be taking today, in supporting the LCM, is a positive and necessary step towards restoring a more compassionate, child-centred approach to supporting unaccompanied, asylum-seeking children. And I absolutely agree with Sioned Williams, and the points that the committee has made, that children must always be treated as children first. These provisions risk reducing vulnerable young people to immigration cases rather than regarding them as individuals in need of care and protection and support. And I say again that, in Wales, we are committed to ensuring that every child is safe, supported, able to thrive, consistent with our obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. That has driven us, in terms of making the case for these LCMs as well. I think it is important to recognise that the provisions to be repealed directly undermined devolved powers, directly undermined them, particularly in relation to the safeguarding and care of looked-after children. That's where we looked to our legislation. Welsh local authorities have clear statutory duties and, indeed, we contested the illegal migration Bill vigorously, as you will recall.

So, I just want to finally say that we will continue to monitor UK immigration legislation, as I said in response to the committee, to ensure that the rights of children, in relation to this LCM and this Bill, are protected, and that devolved responsibilities are respected.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I'd like to move the motion and thank, starting off, the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, for the consideration they've given to the Welsh Government's legislative consent memorandum on the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error And Recovery) Bill, and for the reports that they've published.

The LJC committee has agreed with the Welsh Government's recommendations to seek consent for clauses 1, 2, 5, 6 and 7—and Schedule 1—9, 10, 65, 66, 68 and 70, and Schedule 2, which fall within the legislative competence of the Senedd and should be considered by the UK Parliament.

I acknowledge that the UK Government considers clauses 1, 2, 7—and Schedule 1—9, 65, 66 and 70 and Schedule 2 as requiring the consent of the Senedd. The Welsh Government supports all those provisions of the Bill, which meet the test in Standing Order 29. This legislation enables devolved Welsh authorities to request the exercise of specialist investigative capability via the Public Sector Fraud Authority to recover money lost by fraud or error. The Bill will deliver real benefits to devolved Welsh authorities' ability to recover public money lost through fraud or error. It will enable previously lost and much-needed public money to be recovered and directed back into vital public services.

The Public Sector Fraud Authority, acting on behalf of the UK Cabinet Office, will assess and prioritise requests made by public authorities in England and Wales to investigate fraud or recover public funds lost through error, or will act upon ministerial direction to do so, where the Minister considers it is necessary in the public interest. The authority will operate under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, having the same powers as the police to search and recover, but without a power of arrest.

The Bill creates additional powers to impose civil penalties for fraud and debt recovery powers through banks and employers. Ultimately, the legislation is expected to serve as a deterrent to those that commit fraud, to obtain public funds essential to tackle unscrupulous practices and protect public funds. It's also important to note that the Bill provides a right to appeal civil penalties or debt recovery amounts, as well as other important safeguards. Recovery of funds can be staged over a period of time.

The Welsh Government has been consulted and has worked with the UK Government on the development of this legislation. The UK Government has agreed that once the Bill has received Royal Assent, the authority and the Welsh Government will communicate with devolved Welsh authorities to ensure the Welsh Government is notified of requests made to the authority to act. This will enable us to monitor the legislation's impact in Wales, and we will continue to work closely with the UK Government in relation to this Bill. Finally, Llywydd, recognising the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error And Recovery) Bill's importance and the positive impact it will have on protecting and recovering public funds from fraud and error in Wales, I recommend the Senedd supports this Bill and gives it consent.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee has reported on three of the four Welsh Government legislative consent memoranda for the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error And Recovery) Bill. With the fourth memorandum being laid only 11 days ago, the committee has had insufficient time available to go through it thoroughly, to consider the issues and report to the Senedd.

During the previous debate on the legislative consent motion for the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill, I said that the committee had questioned the Welsh Government's assessment of which clause in that Bill triggered the requirement of Standing Order 29 in that it made provisions with regard to devolved matters. The committee has done the same thing with this Bill.

The committee wrote to the Cabinet Secretary asking for clarity on why the Welsh Government has concluded that only some clauses in Part 1 of the Bill require the Senedd's consent, while others do not. It would appear to the committee that the Minister for the Cabinet Office could use any of the devolved powers in Part 1 of the Bill on behalf of a devolved Welsh authority. As an example for Members, the Cabinet Secretary stated that the Senedd's consent is required for clause 7 of the Bill, which allows the Minister for the Cabinet Office to use powers in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 to investigate suspected fraud against public authorities. So, why is consent not also required for clause 3, which allows that Minister to require a person to provide information for the same purpose?

In the committee's first report, we asked the Cabinet Secretary to provide detailed reasoning as to why the Welsh Government does not consider the Senedd's consent should be sought for the entirety of Part 1 of the Bill, and we asked the Cabinet Secretary to specifically explain why the Welsh Government considers consent is required for clause 7, but not clause 3. 

clause 7, but not clause 3. The Cabinet Secretary's response to the committee's recommendation did not provide the information that would lead the committee to change its view that all clauses in Part 1 of the Bill contain provisions with regard to devolved matters and, as such, the Senedd's consent should be sought for the entirety of Part 1. Furthermore, in the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's second report, we noted our disappointment that the Cabinet Secretary did not answer our request to explain why consent is being sought for clause 7 but not for clause 3, given that both allow the Minister for the Cabinet Office to require a person to provide the information for the same purpose to investigate a suspected fraud against a public authority.

Finally, in regard to delegated powers in the Bill, in the committee's first report, we noted that while this Bill does not confer any delegated powers on the Welsh Ministers, Part 1 of the Bill confers a number of powers to make subordinate legislation on the Minister for the Cabinet Office to act in devolved areas, including three Henry VIII powers. The committee asked the Cabinet Secretary to explain whether the Welsh Government requested powers in the Bill for the Welsh Ministers equivalent to those delegated to the Minister for the Cabinet Office so that they may act in devolved areas. As noted in the committee's second report, the Cabinet Secretary did not request such powers in the Bill, and the full justification for this decision is set out in our report.

Thank you for those contributions. Thank you, again, to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for again expressing and repeating those points that you raised with us in terms of us considering this legislation and our role in it in relation to a legislative consent motion. Just to, again, rehearse and repeat, perhaps, the important response to the questions raised by Sioned Williams as well, we are supporting this Bill because the provisions in the Bill are consistent with our focus on the protection of public funds. I recognise that you also share that recognition that we need to protect public funds. It is very much in line with our Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. It is supporting a prosperous Wales, helping to safeguard public funds, protecting public funds, supporting each of our public bodies covered by the Act from central Government to local authorities, and in prevention of fraud and recovery of funds from fraud and/or error.

In terms of what we would do differently if it was a Senedd Bill, which is an absolutely relevant question and it’s right to be scrutinised on this, well, at this stage, the UK and Welsh Governments do share the same goals in preventing fraud and error within public authorities, investigating and recovering public funds through fraud and error, but the prevention, detection and investigation of crime is not a devolved area in Wales, we don't have a PSFA, and some of the clauses within the Bill require the consent of the Senedd, but this is because of their impact on devolved Welsh authorities. It is essential that we do work closely with the UK Government in terms of those reserved matters to ensure that the Bill delivers against our priorities, and it is for that reason, Llywydd, that I thank also the committees once again for considering the memorandum and do ask Members to join me in supporting this Bill and giving consent.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and I'm pleased to introduce our annual debate on the children's commissioner's report. Wales was the first country in the UK to enshrine children's rights into law in 2011, and it is important to reflect on that hugely important development. We were the first UK nation to establish the office of the children's commissioner; in fact, I was very pleased to have led the recruitment of the very first Children's Commissioner for Wales back in 2001, when I was Minister for Health and Social Services. That recruitment included the involvement of children and young people in the appointment, a groundbreaking development at that time, and it never before had been done. Now, it is so good, it's common practice.

We must just recognise, and certainly in this debate, that the commissioner provides our children with a strong, independent advocate who makes sure that their voices are heard. We've seen this over the years since an independent commissioner has been in place. We want a Wales for all our children, a wonderful place to grow up, live, work, now and in the future. This is our ambition for the children of Wales, and the measures we've taken demonstrate our commitment.

Let's just look at some of the commitments we have made over the years. We've ended the physical punishment of children in Wales. We've extended voting rights to 16 and 17-year-olds in the Senedd and local government elections, and we've introduced the pioneering Curriculum for Wales. The childcare offer for Wales continues to support families of three and four-year-olds, not just during term time but throughout the school holidays. Since 2022, and, in line with our programme of government commitment, we've expanded the offer to parents seeking to improve their prospects through further and higher education.

We have expanded Flying Start childcare for two and three-year-olds. More than 10,000 children have benefited already, and our commitment to rolling out Flying Start childcare for all two-year-olds is progressing well across Wales. We've rolled out universal free school meals for primary-age pupils across Wales, recently reaching the milestone of serving up 52 million free meals. Wales is still the only UK nation to provide a free healthy meal for every primary learner.

Our £1 young person's bus fare pilot will make a real difference for 16 to 21-year-olds. Over 28,000 have already signed up. It can be used for education, work and leisure, and we'll extend the offer to five to 15-year-olds in November.

We've acted on the commissioner's concerns about children using vapes by giving our support to the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, and soon we'll be introducing an intervention tool, Vape Aware, to support professionals working with young people who regularly vape. And last, but by no means least, we passed the Health and Social Care (Wales) Act 2025, becoming the first UK nation to legislate to end profit in children's residential and foster care.

One of the aspects of the commissioner's annual report that I find most compelling is that her recommendations reflect what children in Wales have said. Children are the experts in their own lives; their views enrich and inform our approach, as they have informed her approach. In February, I attended a young persons online forum with children from across Wales, and we discussed the impact of the terrible events of the 2024 Southport tragedy and the subsequent summer disorder, and how we can work together to prevent such events happening again. In March, I met with Young Wales members to discuss their concerns about child poverty, help for asylum seekers and refugees, and support for LGBTQ+ young people in rural areas—they raise these issues with me; we discuss them. In May, along with a number of Cabinet colleagues, I attended the child-led care experience summit. The children choose what they want to talk to Ministers about and give us the benefit of their experience and views. They help us, as Welsh Ministers, understand what it's like to be in care and what matters to them, meaning that we can make better decisions about services for them.

As part of the progress report for our child poverty strategy, I commissioned an exercise to gather evidence specifically from children, young people and their families, to listen to their experiences and find out what our interventions have meant for them. As ever, the commissioner's recommendations this year reflect the breadth of policies we're taking forward to benefit children. A number of these fall within my own portfolio. The commissioner has called for direct financial payments to children in low-income households facing the deepest poverty, similar to the Scottish child payment. Although we don't have the competence to legislate for this type of scheme, we continue to work closely with the Scottish Government to understand their approach. However, importantly, we have to look, as Policy in Practice have said, at what our powers are and what we can do, and we already provide direct financial support to children through free school meals, the school essentials grant and the education maintenance allowance, as well as benefits to families in poverty.

The commissioner is challenging us to accelerate action on automatic enrolment of families onto the benefits to which they're entitled. The creation of a coherent Welsh benefits system is an ambition for the Welsh Government, and I'm pleased to say that the Welsh benefits charter has been adopted by all 22 local authorities in Wales, confirming the collective commitment to improve access to financial support for people across Wales, and we're putting this ambition into practice.

The commissioner recommends a new mechanism for young people to formally feed into the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' governance structure. I really welcome that recommendation. My officials are working with the commissioner's team to develop this new structure. I know that my colleagues in Cabinet are actively considering the recommendations that the commissioner has made that relate to their areas. The commissioner's independent role is crucial in holding the Government to account and ensuring that we maintain a collective focus on children's rights in Wales. I look forward to hearing your views on the commissioner's annual report. Diolch yn fawr.

I would like to begin by expressing my gratitude for the considerable efforts invested in strengthening children's rights across law, policy, education and public services, and I pay tribute to the children's commissioner for their dedication to this cause. There is much within the report that Wales should take pride in. We see evidence of increasing recognition of children as rights holders. We see improvements in mental health support and in access to education for those with additional learning needs. For these efforts, those involved deserve our thanks.

However, progress must not be mistaken for completion. Rights declared on paper do not always translate into safety in reality. Although the report addresses a number of important issues, it fails to grapple with the very real threat to child safeguarding. Safeguarding is not only about systems and frameworks, it is about courage. We cannot properly protect our children without acknowledging the uncomfortable truths that threaten their everyday safety. It is imperative that we face, openly and urgently, the existence of the organised grooming gangs within our communities, an alarming reality that, despite sustained concerns raised by colleagues here, has not been adequately addressed by the Welsh Government. We cannot build a truly safe society by speaking only of policy while failing to speak of predators.

While the children's commissioner's legal powers have led to policy changes and a review within local authorities, we must recognise that, tragically, abuse has often been perpetrated by those in positions of deep trust: clergy, teachers, youth leaders and other authority figures. To fully begin addressing this, the Welsh Government must accept the commissioner's safeguarding recommendations and swiftly undertake an assessment of the current safeguarding landscape.

I am aware that these matters are difficult to raise, but, in keeping with the children's commissioner's values, we must be honest, for if we refuse to speak of these threats, then we deny children the protection they deserve. Therefore, while I commend the report for its progress, I must urge this Chamber,

I must urge this Chamber, the Welsh Government and all responsible bodies to go further. We must strengthen investigative oversight. Currently, the Welsh Government has little real oversight of the faith-based and voluntary organisations. Sport clubs, private clubs and informal groups largely operate unchecked, and regional safeguarding boards have no power to enforce standards in these settings. 

We must also improve data transparency. Despite the safeguards in place, data on children abused in Wales has been fragmented and opaque. Multi-agency reporting is inconsistent. Non-statutory organisations are largely invisible in official records, and outcomes for children are rarely tracked. This lack of transparency hinders accountability, masks emerging threats and leaves children at risk.

As the children's commissioner notes, young people place great value on accessible and safe community spaces, particularly for mental health support. When young people tell us they feel unsafe online, on the streets or even in places that should be sanctuaries, we have a duty not just to hear them, but to act. This Welsh Government, I fear, is more concerned with rhetoric than results. So, yes, let's mark the progress made, but let us also make this clear: children's rights are not fulfilled simply by being written into reports, they are fulfilled when every child in Wales can live free from fear, free from exploitation and free from harm. That is the standard that we must set. That is the promise we must keep. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch Llywydd. I want to begin by thanking the Children's Commissioner for Wales and her team for yet another insightful report. The report highlights both the progress being made and the challenges still facing children and young people across Wales. We look forward to exploring these in more detail when the commissioner comes to committee in November.

Throughout this Senedd, our committee has shared the commissioner's ambition to make children's voices central to how Wales shapes policy and delivers services. This annual report shows just how powerful that approach can be, turning children's experiences into real change. We also value the strong and constructive relationship we have with the commissioner and her team. The evidence we hear from them in committee is always grounded in the lived experiences of children and families, and it helps us scrutinise whether the decisions being made truly meet their needs. The priorities the commissioner sets out—equality, tackling poverty and improving mental health—are exactly the themes we've seen echoed across our own work.

In our report, 'If not now, then when?', we called for radical reform to support care-experienced children, and in one of our more recent reports, 'Do disabled children and young people have equal access to education and childcare'?, we heard directly from families about the barriers they face every day. Both reports highlight what the commissioner's work makes clear: that, too often, access to rights still depends on where a child lives or how well their family can fight for them. The commissioner's focus on practical rights-based solutions is one we fully support. Whether it's better data, stronger accountability or earlier intervention, these are the steps that will make a real difference on the ground. As a committee, we'll continue to work alongside the commissioner and others to make sure every child in Wales feels seen, valued and supported to reach their full potential. Diolch.

Firstly, I'd also like to thank the children's commissioner for this annual report. It was a very interesting read. There have been,

There have been, as we know, crucial topics covered in the report, including, as we've heard, mental health, education and ALN, in addition to equalities. I note also some of those concerning statistics that we see relating to child poverty, with 31 per cent of children in Wales living in relative income poverty.

One of the areas, however, that I see was not covered in the report is relating to childhood obesity. I was at least hoping I would see this, perhaps, in section 11, 'What next for us in 2025-2026?' 

A recent piece of work from my own committee, the Health and Social Care Committee, found that in 2023-24, 13.7 per cent of children were overweight and 11.8 per cent were obese. That is a very concerning statistic, and I'm sure everyone here would agree. The same findings suggested that children in the most deprived areas are more likely to be overweight and obese.

We know that health boards already lack the provision to tackle obesity in children, but these stats show this must change. Obesity is directly related to child poverty, mental health and well-being, playing and physical activities, and of course food insecurity. These are all areas noted by the commissioner, but obesity is missing, and the direct issues relating to it, such as childhood diabetes.

I am an advocate for food security here in Wales, but also for ensuring our children are eating the right meals. They must be nutritional and worth consuming. I note the commissioner advocates raising the free school meal threshold, but if the meals our children are receiving are hyper processed then, whilst ticking a box, they are contributing to the wider issue we see here in Wales.

Childhood obesity in Wales is a serious and growing public health concern, with higher rates than England and Scotland if measured in the same way. The Welsh Government must ensure this trend is reversed, and perhaps the commissioner including the area in future reports will aid this in coming about. Thank you.

Plaid Cymru welcomes the children's commissioner's report and thanks her team as well for engaging with over 20,000 children across Wales. Their voices must shape our national education priorities.

The report lays bare the reality of our education system for too many learners. Take school complaints: 83 cases were raised in just one year, and a quarter revealed serious flaws. Learners face extra hurdles compared to adults when trying to raise concerns. Now, that's clearly unacceptable. Every pupil deserves a fair, accessible process when things go wrong. Welsh Government must work, therefore, with the commissioner to remove barriers for children.

Additional learning needs remains the biggest area of concern in education casework. Families are still battling bureaucracy to get the support their children need. The promise of reform is not being felt by them in practice.

Now, Plaid Cymru has long called for a truly inclusive education system, and we support the commissioner's call for clearer guidance and the full implementation of findings from Estyn, Audit Wales and the Senedd's own committees. We believe every teacher and teaching assistant should receive ALN training, and that national standards must be applied consistently to end the postcode lottery in terms of support.

Learner travel is another recurring issue. Children are missing school because they can't afford the bus or because services are overcrowded. Now, that's a direct barrier to their right to education. Plaid Cymru also agrees that the bus Bill must explicitly address the needs of young people and learner travel. Transport policy must support attendance, not undermine it.

The report also shows that mental health support in schools is patchy and under strain. Young people and professionals alike are calling for early intervention and trauma-informed practice. Now, Plaid Cymru supports a whole-school approach to well-being, with trusted adults and clear access to support. Emotional health is obviously the foundation stone to learning experiences. And as my colleague, Sioned Williams, has already said this afternoon, Plaid Cymru is calling for the Welsh Government to listen to the calls of the children's commissioner and many other agencies as well and to implement a Welsh child payment,

Welsh child payment, because poverty is a children's rights issue as well.

After 25 years in power, Labour's record is clear. It's about managing poverty, not ending it, and stifling children's potential, not supporting them. The children's commissioner has called for action, and Plaid Cymru is ready to deliver it. Our national mission is simple—raise standards, unlock potential and give every child in Wales the best start in life through literacy, inclusion, well-being and fairness. Our children deserve nothing less. Diolch.

I'm also very pleased we're having this debate today, and we'd like to thank the children's commissioner for her latest report. I think the office of the children's commissioner has served as an invaluable source of information to the Senedd. It's got the voice of children heard in Government policy, and it's great that the commissioner is there as an independent, critical friend to help advocate on behalf of and improve the lives of children in Wales.

I was also particularly impressed by the amount of consultation that Rocio has undertaken with children across Wales—9,000 across every local authority in Wales through in-person engagement, and over 20,000, as Cefin Campbell said, through a monthly survey about particular issues such as energy drinks, school toilets, housing, homelessness and speaking directly to children and young people about their views, and how they think their lives should be impacted by what we do here, the decisions that we make here, is absolutely vital.

In particular, I'm very pleased that the commissioner has become involved in the issue of corporate parenting. The children who are in our care—care-experienced children—are our responsibility and we are their parents. I think it's absolutely crucial that we take that duty very seriously. We couldn't have a greater responsibility as a body than to be the corporate parents of care-experienced children.

I think that the commissioner's work on this has been absolutely invaluable, and I'm very pleased that the Commissioner has signed up to implement a full action plan to embed the charter in her work. I note that the commissioner has said that the Welsh Government should undertake reviews of health agencies and housing associations pledges that are ensuring that children and young people are included in the setting and monitoring of actions. I know it's very important for this charter to get as many people and as many bodies signed up to it as possible, but I think she is absolutely right that we've got to look at the quality of those pledges and whether the children and young people have been involved. I don't know if the Cabinet Secretary is able to give any information on that when she responds, but obviously I think that is a key part of what we've been trying to do for children.

I'd like to also use this opportunity to raise some of the distinctive things that we have done in Wales for children, helped and supported by the past and the present children's commissioner. One of these, of course, as the Cabinet Secretary said in her introduction, was the introduction of the removal of the defence of reasonable punishment. I was very honoured to be involved in that when I had the responsibility in the Cabinet, and I'm very pleased that Dawn is here today who is continuing to carry the flag.

Last month, I was really pleased to go to Northern Ireland with the NSPCC, because in Northern Ireland an amendment has been moved to a criminal justice Bill to remove the defence of reasonable punishment there. They were very interested to learn about what we'd done in Wales and how we actually got the legislation through. It was absolutely great to share our experiences here and to reflect how essential it was that we worked as a Government collaboratively with the local authorities, health boards and third sector partners to bring about what was a big change in protecting children's rights in Wales. I think that is a way that we have been very radical in this Senedd, and others look to us to see what they can do and how they can follow us. It was a really great visit, and it did give you great confidence about what we can achieve here.

I know that we are waiting for an independent report on the three years in which this has been implementing. 

has been implementing. Of course, we can say that we think it's going well, because the number of cases that have gone to the PCC are actually under five, for three years, so they can't even be measured. So, there certainly hasn't been a great rising of criminality as a result of this legislation. But we do need an independent assessment, because I don't really think that it's possible to give any judgment until we get that. So, I don't know whether the Cabinet Secretary is able to give us any indication of when we might get that independent assessment.

And then lastly, the removal of profit from children's services is something that we brought in as a result of what children and young people wanted, that they didn't want their particular circumstances to be exploited in some cases, you would feel, by profit. I think this, again, was absolutely the right thing to do, where Wales is leading the way, and the legislation has gone through, and it would be great to get a report about how the sector is moving towards not having any profit in children's provision—residential and fostering. Diolch.

Diolch to the children's commissioner for this report. This report makes for difficult reading, and it should, because behind every statistic is a child being failed by a system that is supposed to protect them.

Wales now has the highest child poverty in the UK: 31 per cent of children living in relative poverty, as has already been outlined today. I mean, this is nothing short of a national disgrace. Every year we hear warm words, but nothing changes. It's not compassionate to keep repeating failure, and Wales most certainly deserves better.

Now, on reading the children's commissioner report, it is very clear that additional learning needs is a key focus area and a key area that parents and children get in contact with her about, with 35 per cent of it being about education, but 15 per cent being about additional learning needs, and that access to appropriate support. I can't believe that we keep having these same conversations and people are coming up with the same problems.

'Families regularly sought advice on school-based complaints, exclusion and ALN provision',

it says.

There is a part of the report that says:

'The conversations covered themes that we know are present across the country for parents trying to get an education that is right for their child, including a system that is hard to navigate, slow progress, and the feeling that everything is a battle.' 

Now, I don't know about everyone else in this Chamber, but that is certainly my experience when it comes to casework, that parents are finding everything a battle, just to try and get the education that their children quite rightly deserve.

Now, there are a few problems when it comes to ALN. The Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal Act (Wales) 2018 is something that we all welcomed, and it is welcome, but what we're seeing, unfortunately, is that the lower levels of ALN are falling under the radar in our schools. This has led to an increase in expulsions and suspensions where they are not necessary, and they're not the caring, educated response to something that's happening in the classroom. If the teachers have been trained in the right way to deal with the lower level additional learning needs, then those expulsions and suspensions and that child's education would not be affected in the way that they have been. I've had children and parents both crying to me about wanting to be in school, not wanting to be seen as misbehaving, but just purely because they couldn't control themselves in the classroom, shouting out and just being disruptive, they weren't being treated in the right way, which was making it worse and worse and worse, and then they would dread to go into school, and the behaviour would get out of control. It is something that we need to focus in on. Teacher training on additional learning needs is absolutely a priority and it should be a focus of this Government.

Another problem that we've got, of course, is that special schools are full, and we've got higher levels of ALN children in our mainstream education now, which is, again, coming up with the same problems. Teachers aren't ready to cope with those demands in primary or secondary school, and there aren't enough teaching assistants and trained staff to be able to help them deal with them, those individual students and pupils, but also to be able to help out, so that the whole class's education is not affected, something that teachers and pupils 

and support and backing as a champion for children and young people in Wales? Diolch yn fawr.