16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785052 0 En 2026-11-10T13:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=302&l=en 261110-0 C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785025 1 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-0 C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 787225 2 Cy 261110-0 I In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches. [R] indicates that the Member has declared an interest when tabling the business. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785027 3 Cy 261110-0 I The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) in the Chair. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785026 4 Cy 2026-11-10T13:30:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Good afternoon, everyone. We'll begin with questions to the First Minister. The first question is from Gareth Thomas. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785037 5 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Armed Forces Covenant 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785038 6 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz 1. What assessment has the First Minister made of the delivery of the armed forces covenant for veterans in the Vale of Glamorgan and Bridgend, given that participation in the veteran-friendly GP practice scheme is voluntary? OQ64909 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785039 7 En 2026-11-10T13:30:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=28&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The first thing to say, of course, Llywydd, is that we remain very much committed to the armed forces covenant, supported across Wales by our armed forces liaison officers. Local authorities and health boards have signed the covenant and appointed champions. I particularly congratulate those GP practices achieving veteran-friendly status, demonstrating the practical difference services can make for armed forces community members. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785041 8 En 2026-11-10T13:30:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=54&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz The armed forces covenant promises that veterans will face no disadvantage because of their service. Yet, whether a veteran in Bridgend can see a GP trained to understand that service depends on where they live. Just three practices in the borough are credited as veteran friendly, all of them in the east, with none listed in the north or west. For a veteran, particularly those living with service-related injury or disability, that is a real barrier to care. Will the First Minister set out what the Welsh Government will do to ensure that every veteran in Bridgend can access veteran-friendly practices? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785043 9 En 2026-11-10T13:31:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=95&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member is right to point out, of course, that this is a voluntary scheme. It is a scheme very much supported by this Welsh Government. I think we're up to somewhere around the 20 per cent mark of GP practices that are a part of this system. We think it should be much more than that. In fact, Health Education and Improvement Wales, is writing to GPs later this week to raise awareness. In this most poignant of weeks, when we do remember the commitment and the bravery of current and former serving members of the armed forces, this is one way—something that needs to grow further—in which we can show that commitment in practice. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785045 10 En 2026-11-10T13:32:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=151&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah Due to the nature of military service, armed forces personnel and veterans are significantly more likely than the general population to experience depression, anxiety, PTSD and other mental health conditions. Research published in The BMJ has also highlighted a higher prevalence of alcohol misuse and related physical health issues amongst veterans, but, despite this, they're often less likely than civilians to receive a formal diagnosis. The UK Government has found that, in 2025-26, only 11.8 per cent of armed forces personnel discuss their mental health within a military healthcare setting. That suggests that, even in services specifically designed to support serving personnel and veterans, many still don't feel comfortable coming forward and seeking help. Given these challenges, it's essential that veterans are able to access high-quality mental health support as early as possible, but stigma, a lack of awareness and difficulties in seeking help can all act as barriers in accessing that support that they need. I'd like to ask what discussion the Welsh Government is having with GPs to ensure that veterans in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg, and more widely across Wales, are identified early, can access timely and effective mental health treatment, and are supported to recognise when they may need help and to seek that help with confidence? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785050 11 En 2026-11-10T13:33:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=229&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun As I say, we are doing work to raise awareness of the importance of the voluntary scheme. On mental health in particular, the Welsh Government does provide not far from £1 million—£920,000— to Veterans' NHS Wales for evidence-based treatment of service-related mental health conditions. We of course remind veterans that they are able to access the wider NHS mental health support, including '111 press 2', online cognitive behaviour therapy, specialist services, and so on. Most people referred to local primary mental health support services receive an assessment within four weeks, which is positive, and an intervention within a further four weeks, and we're also testing same-day open-access support across Wales. That relates to everyone, but the key thing, again, as I stress in this week, is that we remind people that, in particular when it comes to service-related mental health issues, we have a clear focus on the importance of strengthening services for veterans in particular. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785032 12 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785033 13 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785029 14 En 2026-11-10T13:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=302&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. First Minister, I was taken by what the veterans commissioner said on Saturday on Radio Wales when he talked about waiting times within the health service and that impacting on veterans getting treatment within the Welsh NHS. Now, you gave a time commitment to bring these waiting times down in the Welsh NHS, at the election, of a couple of months. Your health Minister said it will take a full Senedd term. Your finance Minister said it will be 12 months before the five-year waits are wiped out in the Welsh NHS. Which one is it going to be, because we've got three different stories, and none of them at the moment seem to be coming right because waiting times are only going one way, and that's up? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785030 15 En 2026-11-10T13:35:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=337&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member refers to five-year waits. I think he probably means two-year waits, that, absolutely, we are committed to tackling within the first year of this Government. We're talking here in particular about the way our services are meant to be able to respond to the needs of veterans. Whether it's GP services or, indeed, mental health services, we are determined, when it comes to acting under the requirements of the covenant itself, or, in fact, reflecting in more broader terms what that covenant says in terms of our duty of care to serving and previous armed forces members, that we provide the health and care services that they are deserving of. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785142 16 Cy 2026-11-10T13:36:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=386&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Question 2. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785034 17 En 2026-11-10T13:36:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=388&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The Member isn't present.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785059 18 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister I Question 2 [OQ64879] not asked. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785190 19 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785035 20 Cy 2026-11-10T13:36:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=390&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw So, we will move immediately to questions from the party leaders. I now call on the party leaders to question the First Minister. First, the leader of Reform UK, Helen Jenner.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785036 21 En 2026-11-10T13:36:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=405&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Leader of the Opposition Jenner, Hellen Diolch, Lywydd. First Minister, one of your own Plaid Cymru MSs took to X to ask, and I quote, have 'you got up to £10m to waste?' This was in reference to potentially having a statutory COVID inquiry. Do you agree with those comments—yes or no? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785040 22 En 2026-11-10T13:37:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=422&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I don't think I'll take lessons from Reform on COVID. [Interruption.] I hear shouts of 'yes or no'. They'd ask me what my favourite colour is and say 'yes or no'. Let's be clear here: I will not take lessons from Reform on the COVID inquiry, given that they have not taken a stance of the kind that we have taken, on the need to learn lessons. That is precisely what we are engaging with, as we said we would, moving quickly on it, as we said we would, because we need to know, when the next pandemic strikes, that we are better prepared for it than we were the last time round. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785042 23 En 2026-11-10T13:37:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=457&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen Okay, that was about as clear as mud. First Minister, your answer is revealing. Let's not forget that you called over £9 million of international relations and so-called sustainable development funding 'small change'. So, foreign aid to Uganda to support a disability-inclusive beekeeping scheme comes in at £25,000; LGBTQI+ financial literacy training in Uganda, £22,000; digital training in Somaliland, £20,000; soap-making lessons in Ghana, £4,000; and millions of pounds on foreign embassies, including three in China. First Minister, how can you not afford serious answers and closure for the bereaved families that Plaid promised to support before the election when your Government spends so much taxpayer money abroad? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785044 24 En 2026-11-10T13:38:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=504&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Llywydd, Reform really is a one-trick pony. They're interested in nothing other than stoking culture wars. No ideas on the cost of living, no ideas on driving down waiting lists, no ideas to raise standards in schools, no ideas to tackle child poverty. They're a party of small boats, small minds and small ambitions for Wales. The bad news for Reform, of course, is that we now have a Government more determined than any before to play our part internationally, promoting Wales for all the economic and cultural benefits that come from that, and being globally responsible in the process.  The problem with Reform—there are many problems with Reform—but the one problem with Reform is that they live, Llywydd, in some fantasy world, where they want to shut themselves away from the realities of climate change or global poverty, and, to them, the tree planting was everything that made them feel threatened. I think that was a scheme that was brilliant in what it achieved, in environmental terms and in terms of our global responsibility. As a new Government determined to be that globally responsible Government, we will build on the good work that has gone on before. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785051 25 En 2026-11-10T13:39:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=583&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen First Minister, international relations is not a valid defence for sending taxpayers' money abroad. We all know that Plaid Cymru is not the party of Wales. It remains the party of wasting taxpayers' money abroad.  Speaking of China, I want to ask you about another waste of money that this Plaid Government seems to be intent on indulging in. Yesterday, a vile blogger published an article on a taxpayer-funded blogging site amplifying the words of a former Labour council leader regarding Reform UK's Remembrance Day tribute, which accused an elected member of this Senedd of whitewashing her past. That blogger tried to justify those horrendous comments within the online piece. It implied that my colleague Cristiana, because of her Romanian heritage, was somehow responsible for mass murder during the Holocaust. Shameful. Disgraceful. I hope you will join me in condemning them in the strongest possible terms. The same piece amplified comments calling the service of my colleagues in the armed forces a joke—an insulting way to describe people who have served their country. This is a blog with a history of disinformation. First Minister, as a former journalist yourself, surely you can see the corrosive impact this is having on our public life here in Wales. Will the First Minister finally defund the biased, hateful Nation.Cymru once and for all? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785031 26 En 2026-11-10T13:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=602&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785047 27 En 2026-11-10T13:41:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=667&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Llywydd, we see the corrosion all around us in this Senedd. [Interruption.] Absolutely, I will agree with the leader of Reform in Wales on the need to condemn the attacking of people because of the colour of their skin, the attacking of people because of the country they come from, the attacking of people because of their sexuality, the attacking of people because they are different. [Interruption.] This is a party determined to undermine the good name of our Senedd through their culture wars agenda, and this is one First Minister that will not stand by and keep quiet as they do it. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785053 28 En 2026-11-10T13:41:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=705&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Can I remind Members that we need to hear the questions and we need to hear the answers as well? If I have difficulty hearing, then those outside this Chamber have difficulty hearing. So, please. We'll proceed. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785055 29 Cy 2026-11-10T13:42:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=726&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The leader of Welsh Labour, Ken Skates. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785056 30 En 2026-11-10T13:42:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=728&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Leader of Welsh Labour Skates, Ken Diolch, Lywydd. We really do need greater dignity and respect in this place. Can I start by paying tribute to those who sacrificed their lives for our freedom? I look forward to the opportunity to say more on this later this afternoon and tomorrow. But, First Minister, let's just be clear, on climate change measures, you are doing Reform's work for them. Now, in terms of the Children's Commissioner for Wales and her recent interview, she expressed concerns that the Welsh Government's work responding to the 'Our Bravery Brought Justice' review appears to have stalled since the election. Can you reassure all Members of the Senedd, and the public, that this matter will be treated with the urgency that it deserves, and will you arrange for the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language to make a statement on progress at the earliest opportunity, as called for by my colleague Lynne Neagle? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785061 31 En 2026-11-10T13:43:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=783&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I think we must always start by recognising the bravery of the young people who have come forward to shine a light on the abuse shown towards them. I'm grateful to the children's commissioner for the comments that she has made. My officials met her only last week to discuss progress on our work. Our task here, I think, is clear. It is to strengthen safeguarding, it is to improve protections. Where we can move faster, absolutely we will. But our actions, of course, need to be joined up always, and they need to make sure that we're embedding good practice in strengthening protection for children and adults at risk alike. There is absolutely no question of any work being on pause. A number of recommendations from the report that has been discussed in recent days are complete. Substantive work is under way across the remaining recommendations, a number of them in very mature states of progress. Some, of course, require national changes to guidance, practice and arrangements. Our focus is on lasting improvements across Wales, not just simply marking actions as complete because that is easier. Where consultation is needed—and it will be needed at times as we strengthen safeguarding—it must build on the evidence, on engagement and on learning already under way. I can assure the Labour leader that it is our intention, and was our intention, to have an update from the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language within the coming weeks. This, I think, is confirmation of just how important this issue is to this Government. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785067 32 En 2026-11-10T13:44:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=892&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken Can I thank the First Minister for his answer? It's my understanding, and I may be incorrect, that the work that's been completed has been completed on the three recommendations that were accepted by the previous Welsh Labour Government and actioned by the previous Government as well. And the children's commissioner is clearly concerned that work has been paused since the election. They are very, very serious comments that the commissioner has made. She says that we can't wait for review after review to see change happen, and I'd entirely agree, because there are real-life consequences to inaction. Could you explain what specific action has taken place since the election to implement the review's further recommendations? And what assurances can you give victims and their families that this work is being driven forward with the urgency they rightly expect? And finally, I think it's absolutely vital that Members here today know how many meetings of the ministerial assurance board have taken place since May. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785048 33 En 2026-11-10T13:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=902&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785054 34 En 2026-11-10T13:45:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=951&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member is right, of course, that the work began under the last Government, but then there was a change of Government. And now it's our responsibility, and a responsibility that we take very, very seriously indeed, to take the work forward. As I say, we have the recommendations that are either completed or are in varying stages of progress—some very, very close indeed to being completed. But it is about absolutely making sure that we put in place lasting measures. It is not a tick-box exercise. It is far more serious than that. It is way beyond party politics. And I know the Member agrees with me on that. We will report back, as I said, through the education Minister, in December this year. It was our intention to do so anyway, because at the heart of this are one group of people that we have to be focused on at all times, and that is the victims. And in everything that we do as Ministers, we consider how we give them confidence that we are taking the necessary actions, and that co-operation with the children's commissioner to keep our feet to the fire, which is exactly what we need to see happen, is aimed at making sure that we can give that confidence to those young victims. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785057 35 Cy 2026-11-10T13:47:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1032&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785058 36 En 2026-11-10T13:47:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1035&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Leader of the Welsh Conservatives Millar, Darren Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. First Minister, we remember this week those who served our country in two world wars and all conflicts since and those who fought for our freedoms. And of course, we know that war is raging once more in Europe again, and it's never been more important, therefore, to support our armed forces and the industries that provide the equipment that they need to defend us. The UK Labour Government has committed to establishing defence technical colleges across Britain, including one here in Wales, and it's made £5 million available to the Welsh Government to do that. I want to applaud the UK Government for doing that. It's not very often I applaud the Labour Party—about as frequently as Halley's Comet passing by—but I have to say that that was a good decision, and I want to make sure that Wales benefits from it. Yet your Government appears to be dragging its heels on the establishment of the college. Can you give us an update on where that college is, when you expect to be in a position to make announcements on where it will be located, and whether your Government continues to recognise the urgent need to strengthen Britain's defences against the growing threats that we see around the world, particularly from Russia? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785069 37 En 2026-11-10T13:48:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1107&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun To bring the Member up to speed, there is positive engagement on the issue of the defence technical college, and I can say at times that we were waiting on UK Government because of delays in moving forward. This is positive engagement. Of course, we recognise the role that the defence sector plays in Wales, the jobs that rely on the defence sector in Wales, and we've made it equally clear that we believe our development of an ethical framework around how we engage positively with that sector reflects the values that people in Wales have. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785075 38 En 2026-11-10T13:49:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1145&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren You didn't give us a timetable. You said that you've had some difficulty waiting on the UK Government, and of course we still haven't seen the ethical defence framework publication, months after it was initially announced, which I think is deeply regrettable, particularly for those companies that are making investment decisions. But it's not the only thing that we need action from the Welsh Government on. We know that the UK Government made another announcement just a couple of weeks ago about ending veteran homelessness prior to Christmas. They've made money available to local authorities in England in order to help them to facilitate and implement that pledge, and yet at a time when we've got asylum seekers being put up in hotels, we still have veteran homelessness here on our streets in Wales. Can I ask you, given that additional money is obviously going to come to Wales as a direct result of the pledge that's been made by the UK Government, will you make the same commitment to ending veteran homelessness—not just at Christmas time—and will you work with the Welsh Conservatives to develop a veteran strategy for Wales, so that we can put an end to any homeless person on our streets who served in our armed forces? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785046 39 En 2026-11-10T13:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1202&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785049 40 En 2026-11-10T13:50:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1224&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun On the initial point, on the timing around the defence technical colleges, I again make the point that there are two parties in this, and moving forward positively is what those engagements are about. On homelessness, in this most solemn of weeks, I thought better of the leader of the Conservatives than to put it in that context. Because homelessness among veterans is something that, quite simply—not in the context of culture wars or anything else—we should be taking very, very seriously. I welcome the announcement that was made by the UK Prime Minister, which, effectively, isn't about consequentials, actually, in the coming year, but it is about the continuation of a programme that has already been in place for the last three years or so. That's positive. But, of course, in recommitting today, as every day, to the armed forces covenant and in pledging to do what we can to tackle homelessness amongst veterans, we put that in the wider context also of wanting to tackle homelessness in its broader meaning. We have shown in the past, during COVID, that we can take action. And it's the job of Government—and we are addressing this—to put in place those measures that can help people avoid it, for example using the recent legislation passed in this Senedd to engage earlier when people are at risk of facing homelessness. And with veterans, of course, a transition arrangement could work positively in terms of avoiding homelessness when somebody transitions out of the armed forces. This is a broader issue, but in this week, of course, we remember the particular significance of the pressures on those who have served in the armed forces. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785062 41 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Antisemitism in Schools and Colleges 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785063 42 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 8734 8734 Sam Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8734 Rowlands, Sam 3. What assessment has the First Minister made of the impact on Wales of the findings of Sir David Bell's independent review into antisemitism in schools and colleges? OQ64903 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785064 43 En 2026-11-10T13:52:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1346&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun It's important to say always that there is no place for antisemitism or hate in Wales and we must challenge discrimination in all its forms. Our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' and Curriculum for Wales already take forward many of the findings and recommendations in the Bell review, but we can't be complacent either. It's important that we learn from that review and from the experiences of staff and learners to ensure that our schools and colleges remain safe, inclusive and free from prejudice. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785065 44 En 2026-11-10T13:52:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1378&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 8734 8734 Sam Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8734 Rowlands, Sam Thank you for your response, First Minister. You're absolutely right to say that there's no place for antisemitism anywhere in our society, and that's why it's shocking to see in Sir David Bell's review, released last month, that one in five children have witnessed or experienced antisemitism, and it's deeply troubling that the number rises to one in three Jewish children. And the campaign against antisemitism is now saying that schools have failed in their duty to protect Jewish children. And this comes at a time, of course, when antisemitism is on the rise across the whole of society here in the UK. The Community Security Trust recorded almost 2,000 incidents of antisemitic hate across the UK in the first half of the year alone. But as you'll know, First Minister, the review by Sir David Bell was only covering schools and colleges in England because it was commissioned by the UK Government, so we do not have a Wales-specific picture of the prevalence of antisemitism in our schools. So, will you, First Minister, commission a review, in line with Sir David Bell's, into antisemitism in our schools and colleges in Wales? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785068 45 En 2026-11-10T13:54:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1444&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun As I said, we're able to learn from that work conducted in England, and I can say that Wales is about to embark on an update of our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', which I think is important to note. I, and all of us, should be very concerned about any reports of children and young people experiencing antisemitism, Islamaphobia and racism in any form in their education settings, and that's why it's incumbent on all of us here to take the heat out of and not ever stoke any senses of racism within our communities. Now, I expect allegations, of course, to be fully investigated by education settings, with appropriate action taken to address the matter and prevent further instances from happening. But whilst Sir David Bell's review relates to England only, there is lots of work being undertaken in Wales to address discrimination and promote that equality and diversity that we all should seek to pursue. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785060 46 En 2026-11-10T13:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1502&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785066 47 En 2026-11-10T13:55:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1514&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James I think it is welcome that you say you're going to update the plan, but I think what we'd like to hear is actually what you're going to do to stop antisemitism in our schools. Because we already see that there's inconsistency across the teaching profession. I've had casework of my own where a pupil who was wearing a Palestinian pin badge was allowed to wear it, and somebody who was then wearing a flag, a pin badge depicting Israel, was told to remove it. Now, there is inconsistency across our teaching profession as well, First Minister. So, I'm just interested to know how you're going to update this guidance and how effective it's going to be to protect Jewish pupils, and also the staff in our schools as well, because we need to remember those. And I also want to know today, First Minister: will you condemn all those groups who spread antisemitism across our schools and across Wales, and also condemn those groups as well who do not wish the Israeli state to exist? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785079 48 En 2026-11-10T13:56:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1573&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I can't make it any clearer than to say that I condemn anybody who stokes racism, be that in schools or any other setting. Antisemitism is a blight. We stand with Jewish communities in Wales, fully condemn antisemitism and all faith-based hate. Education officials have held meetings with representatives of the Jewish and Muslim communities in Wales to discuss the significant impact of the conflict in Israel and Gaza, and the impact that that is having on our communities here, and to discuss the impact of hate incidents. As I say, updating—beginning work early in the new year—of that 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' is important. It's the opportunity for all of us who believe in tackling racism to contribute to that work, so that we can genuinely build towards having an anti-racist Wales, which, at this point in time, feels, doesn't it, a distant dream. But we keep on working towards it, because I think those, fundamentally, are the values that we have as a nation. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785085 49 En 2026-11-10T13:57:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1654&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav First Minister, Sir David Bell's review makes clear that tackling antisemitism requires action not only in our schools, but also in our communities. I recently attended a Jewish culture event that was hosted by the South Wales Jewish Representative Council, where I heard about the inspiring plans for the Merthyr Tydfil synagogue heritage project. Does the Minister agree that initiatives like this also play a vital role in challenging prejudice through education and understanding? And is he satisfied that the Welsh Government is now doing enough to support and expand this type of community-led work across Wales? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785089 50 En 2026-11-10T13:58:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1686&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I very much support that kind of community work. Much of the positive work in creating cohesion across our communities comes from the communities themselves. And as a Government, we will always look for opportunities to support and encourage ventures such as that to grow. When it comes to something like the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', what we are trying to do is set the context in which groups like that, and many others within Wales, feel empowered to stand up against the forces that seek to divide us rather than unite us. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785093 51 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Homelessness Among Veterans 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785094 52 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art 4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to tackle homelessness among veterans? OQ64884 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785095 53 En 2026-11-10T13:58:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1732&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun This Government is committed to preventing and reducing homelessness for those at risk, including, of course, veterans. We're working towards a preventative approach, which will require local authorities to act earlier when someone is at risk of homelessness. On veterans in particular, we continue to work with the armed forces community, registered social landlords and local authorities to ensure that veterans can access the advice and support they need to secure stable accommodation. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785100 54 En 2026-11-10T13:59:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1760&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art First Minister, thank you. The armed forces covenant was welcomed by our veterans community and seen as a cause of hope. I quote a statement of moral obligation, pledging that 'those who have served in the past, and their families, should face no disadvantage compared to other citizens'. It is anything but moral that figures for 2025 reveal that, of 93,000 armed forces veterans living in Wales, 280 of them are sleeping rough, and over 2,000 more fall into the covert category of homelessness, sofa surfing or living with a family. In one case, a female veteran was sharing a bed with her mother for eight years. Whilst Westminster has pledged over £8.7 million for making improvements, organisations such Alabaré in Wales have been awarded sums of around £0.5 million, providing a paltry 39 bed spaces in nine properties across Wales. In my own constituency, a disabled veteran with complex post-traumatic stress disorder has been on the housing list for six years, is languishing in one bedroom in a house of multiple occupation, unable to even invite his children due to the squalid conditions and unsavoury tenants. What will the Minister do to make improvements and restore credibility in the armed forces covenant? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785071 55 En 2026-11-10T14:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1802&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785074 56 En 2026-11-10T14:00:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1843&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member, of course, draws attention to particular cases that, sadly, we know exist of people who have served in armed forces finding themselves in challenging circumstances, including, of course, homelessness. We've already had an opportunity earlier in this session today to look at a number of the elements of the work that are ongoing to try to avoid homelessness in the first place, including using that legislation passed in this place, also engaging with UK Government. As I said, the announcements of a continuation of previous plans by UK Government last week are to be welcomed. We need to build on those funding models and make sure that that money does get down to Welsh Government, so that we can invest. I should say that the armed forces covenant conference in Swansea later this year will bring partners together. We'll share good practice, we'll strengthen joint working and agree priorities for the future. And when it comes to priorities for our debt to veterans, well, tackling homelessness has to be at the top of that agenda. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785081 57 En 2026-11-10T14:02:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=1922&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 518 518 Lindsay Whittle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=518 Whittle, Lindsay First Minister, I count myself privileged and honoured to be the only Welsh politician to have visited the troops in Afghanistan during the war, and spent four nights, five days in that country, visiting Camp Bastion, Kabul, Kandahar, where we actually came under attack, and our visit to Lashkar Gah was cancelled due to heavy fighting. I spoke to many troops about the issues that they faced and witnessed after some serving six full months in theatre. I then was horrified to watch the video on our return to these islands, a 20-minute video, showing the troops how they must adjust to life when they return back home. It's simply not good enough, in my opinion. The decision to send our troops to war and into harm's way rests solely with the Westminster Government, and I believe it is fair that the bulk of support should come from the Westminster Government. And it's a scandal, I'm sure everyone agrees, that any person who fights and/or defends this country should even be at risk of homelessness. First Minister, will you please have discussions with the Prime Minister and those Ministers in the Ministry of Defence to request further support from their budgets, and ensure that we in Wales at least get chwarae teg? Diolch yn fawr.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785096 58 En 2026-11-10T14:03:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2005&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun It is the purpose of the covenant, of course, to ensure that we can't duck our responsibilities when it comes to people who have served in the armed forces. Not everybody will have been able to speak with serving soldiers or members of the armed forces in Afghanistan, but we should all make it our business to make sure that we understand the impact of life pressures on veterans, in particular. One of my first visits as First Minister was to Valley Veterans, where I was able to engage with a number of veterans there exactly on this issue: the challenges that they face, and they face specifically around their transition back into civilian life. I agree the UK Government must support those who've served our country, and honour the commitment made to them. We work with the MOD on UK-wide initiatives like Valour to ensure that they complement the strong armed forces support networks in Wales. We take our own responsibilities under the armed forces covenant seriously, as I've said today, including funding Veterans NHS Wales. And where, I should say, our armed forces community need support as a consequence of their service, it is right that this is available. We'll continue to make that case strongly to UK Ministers, as the Member asks. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785110 59 En 2026-11-10T14:04:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2086&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 145 145 Paul Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=145 Davies, Paul First Minister, there are some excellent examples of local initiatives supporting homelessness among veterans, including the VC Gallery in Pembrokeshire in my constituency, which has set up projects like the community warm room project and their famous Friday breakfast club, which I recently visited. Now, these projects provide a warm and welcoming environment for former service personnel and the wider community, helping to reduce social isolation, strengthening networks and providing people with practical support. And by doing so, they can help prevent veterans from reaching crisis point and reduce the risk of homelessness. Therefore, given the importance of early intervention and community support in keeping veterans from reaching crisis point, what steps is the Welsh Government taking to support organisations such as the VC Gallery as part of its wider efforts to tackle veteran homelessness across Wales? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785070 60 En 2026-11-10T14:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2102&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785134 61 Cy 2026-11-10T14:09:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2350&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785103 62 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785109 63 Cy 2026-11-10T14:06:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2200&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785088 64 En 2026-11-10T14:05:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2144&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Welsh Government, through various schemes, can look at assistance to groups that support veterans. I'm not aware of that particular scheme in Pembrokeshire. It sounds like a very, very valuable network for those veterans who attend. As I say, with my visit to Valley Veterans, that became very, very clear to me—that sense of working together and sharing their lived experience with each other and, in fact, being able to put their case directly to the First Minister, as they do to this Government. I think that shows, doesn't it, that we have here a real community to whom, I'd say, we owe a debt of gratitude, and should be looking always for ways of showing that support in practical terms, be it on homelessness or mental health or other issues. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785092 65 Cy 2026-11-10T14:06:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2198&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Question 5 [OQ64912] is withdrawn. Question 6—Tom Montgomery. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785114 66 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Further Education 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785115 67 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12183 12183 Tom Montgomery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12183 Montomery, Tom 6. What assessment has the First Minister made of the sustainability of the further education sector? OQ64873 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785116 68 En 2026-11-10T14:06:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2213&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The sustainability of the further education sector is kept under close review through Medr's financial oversight arrangements. Participation in further education continues to grow, demonstrating the sector's strength and importance. Medr are working closely with the Welsh Government, as I say, to continue that monitoring of progress in terms of financial health, while supporting a sector that delivers, of course, the skills needed by employers and the wider economy. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785121 69 En 2026-11-10T14:07:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2241&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12183 12183 Tom Montgomery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12183 Montomery, Tom Diolch. In the cross-party group on further education and skills we heard college leaders speaking openly about the crisis in the sector, with some saying that they had waiting lists of more than 700. The five colleges alone who attended that meeting are providing education to around 3,000 students without receiving a single penny of funding. That's around £18 million. We were warned that the prospect of a cash-flat budget settlement, despite increasing learner numbers, would be incredibly challenging for the sector. If you're serious that we're going to tackle those not in employment, education or training, colleges in Wales must be sufficiently funded and resourced. So, First Minister, what steps will you take to ensure that colleges across Wales are paid for the education that they are providing and empowered to clear waiting lists? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785129 70 En 2026-11-10T14:08:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2288&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member points to an issue that arises because of the success of the further education sector. It's a challenge that we embrace as a Government. We want to provide more and more opportunities for our young people to access courses that provide qualifications, practical skills that they can take on to the workplace. It is our task to ensure that we put that financial support in place, recognising the challenges. That is what we are determined to do as a Government as we go into this forthcoming budget round. The FE sector is key to education. It is absolutely crucial to our economic ambitions for Wales, so making sure that we have a well-resourced, well-supported FE sector is important in many, many ways. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785135 71 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Literacy and Numeracy 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785136 72 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12188 12188 Claire Johnson-Wood https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12188 Johnson-Wood, Claire 7. Will the First Minister introduce standardised testing under controlled conditions for literacy and numeracy so that progress against targets can be measured? OQ64885 [R] 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785137 73 En 2026-11-10T14:09:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2372&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Personalised assessments are mandatory for learners in years 2 to 9, and provide teachers with tailored information about individual learners’ progress in reading and numeracy. They support professional judgment and help identify the strengths of learners and areas for development. Our 'Foundational literacy and numeracy plan' sets out a clear and coherent approach to measuring progress nationally. That includes the development of a new baseline assessment and the introduction of an age-related indicator at year 6. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785072 74 En 2026-11-10T14:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2402&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785073 75 En 2026-11-10T14:10:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2404&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12188 12188 Claire Johnson-Wood https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12188 Johnson-Wood, Claire I thank the First Minister for setting out the plan's indicators, baseline and year 6 measure. Those are welcome steps, but they still leave central questions unanswered. The original question was on whether the Government will introduce standardised testing under controlled conditions so that progress against targets can be measured. Relying on existing personalised assessments and derived indicators does not answer that. Given Wales's position in international comparisons and the need for sustained improvement by the end of this Senedd term, a clear system of controlled testing would give the data needed to judge Wales's success and failures. Will the First Minister therefore please confirm that no such controlled standardisation tests will be introduced this term, or is there still scope for that to form part of the response to the literacy and numeracy challenge? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785080 76 En 2026-11-10T14:11:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2474&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I hope we're all after the same thing here, which is to see an improvement in standards, and I hope, genuinely, that we all agree that, in order for us to reach towards better standards, we have to be measuring the progress of pupils. The question is: what's the best way of giving us those measures? The standardisation comes to me, effectively, from having a national, clear indicator—this new indicator at year 6 on reading and numeracy—on which we can then measure progress. It will be introduced in the year 2027-28. We're gathering, if you like, the work now that allows us to set that national indicator. So, pupils will know where they stand. The risk of going down the model that I think the Member is referring to is that we repeat some of the mistakes of the past. Pitching school against school isn't useful. Our challenge, of course, is to make sure that we have an education system that measures the progress—and absolutely this will—of each pupil and adapts the teaching to their needs. That is precisely what we are embarking on as part of this foundational numeracy and literacy mission of ours, which is absolutely focused on, yes, understanding what's going on nationally, but having pupils themselves at the heart of what we're doing. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785082 77 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B International Spending 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785083 78 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12170 12170 Iain McIntosh https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12170 McIntosh, Iain 8. What importance does the First Minister place on prioritising the needs of Wales and its residents over international spending commitments when allocating Welsh taxpayers' money? OQ64908 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785084 79 En 2026-11-10T14:11:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2519&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun This Government is focused always on the people of Wales, as seen through the announcement later today on helping people with the cost-of-living crisis. At the same time, I'm proud to lead a Government that wishes to see a confident, outward-looking nation, which understands also how international spending—a tiny proportion of overall spending—can protect and promote the interests of the people of Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785087 80 En 2026-11-10T14:13:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2609&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12170 12170 Iain McIntosh https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12170 McIntosh, Iain Diolch. I'm sorry, First Minister, but your Government's spending priorities are completely wrong. While people across Wales are fighting to save hospital beds, keep primary schools open and protect essential services, you're spending taxpayers' money on projects thousands of miles away. Now, we've already heard about £25,000 for beekeeping in Africa, nearly £20,000 for a farmer radio programme and over £21,000 for financial literacy projects in Uganda. I welcome your decision to stop funding the £350,000 Uganda tree-planting scheme next March, but you're still allocating £349,000 to Hub Cymru Africa until March 2027, and nearly £310,000 to the Wales and Africa grant scheme until March 2028. So, will you please now commit to ending those funding arrangements when they expire too, and redirect the money towards services here in Wales instead? And will you also guarantee that the £350,000 for tree planting won't simply be spent on another overseas project? Because surely, First Minister, your first priority has got to be for the people of Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785091 81 En 2026-11-10T14:14:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2685&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun These question sessions are quite useful in just portraying how insular Members of Reform are when it comes to wanting to cease our interaction with the world. Reform want us to stop spending internationally on attracting business to Wales, and want us to stop spending internationally on creating new trading links for Welsh businesses. They want us to stop working internationally on promoting culture in Wales, and the economic benefits that come from that. They want us to stop our engagement around sport and the power of it. And I'll take this opportunity to congratulate Jess Fishlock on her amazing career—her amazing career—after she announced this week that she was retiring from professional football. This is, through football or the arts, or the economy and, yes, through global responsibility, Wales showing that we will not be as insular as Reformers want to be, and that we'll be a proudly internationalist party, proud and confident of Wales's place in the world. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785086 82 En 2026-11-10T14:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2702&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785097 83 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785098 84 Cy 2026-11-10T14:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2702&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785099 85 En 2026-11-10T14:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2702&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785105 86 En 2026-11-10T14:15:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2704&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785102 87 Cy 2026-11-10T14:15:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2752&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Question 9 [OQ64907] is withdrawn. Question 10, Becca Martin. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785106 88 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B 'Foundational Literacy and Numeracy Plan' 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785107 89 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12184 12184 Becca Martin https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12184 Martin, Becca 10. What assessment has the First Minister made of the role of play in the new foundational literacy and numeracy plan? OQ64911 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785108 90 En 2026-11-10T14:16:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2768&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Our 'Foundational literacy and numeracy plan' includes a focus on high-quality early years provision. Play has an important role in supporting young children’s development, allowing them to develop their communication, language, literacy and numeracy. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785117 91 En 2026-11-10T14:16:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2783&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12184 12184 Becca Martin https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12184 Martin, Becca Diolch. Play is not simply a leisure activity, it's one of the most important ways that young children can learn and develop. It's crucial for effective learning, stimulating cognitive development, unlocking opportunities and removing barriers. Given the vital role that play has in supporting children's early development and learning, will the Government commit to ensuring that play remains an integral part of its literacy and numeracy plan for younger pupils? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785122 92 En 2026-11-10T14:16:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2808&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Yes, absolutely. Play remains integral to our approach to developing younger children's literacy and numeracy. Our 'Foundational literacy and numeracy plan' has clear actions we've committed to deliver against, and that includes working with partners to promote early childhood play, learning and care; supporting child development-led practice; providing resources and professional learning on understanding child development, which is crucial, of course; the development of foundational literacy and numeracy skills through playful opportunities and a love of learning through play. This is about strengthening foundational skills through play, not choosing between the two. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785130 93 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Energy Developments in Bangor Conwy Môn 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785131 94 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12169 12169 John Clark https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12169 Clark, John 11. What steps is the First Minister taking to ensure that energy developments in Bangor Conwy Môn deliver economic and community benefits for local people and businesses? OQ64868 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785132 95 En 2026-11-10T14:17:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2864&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun It is all about economic and community benefits. Making the connection between energy and communities is at the core of my Government’s national energy strategy. It will strengthen Welsh supply chains, create skilled local employment, and increase local, community and public ownership. We will develop the Welsh public energy company following consultation, revise community energy targets and pursue a fairer, more consistent approach to community benefits. Retaining value for our communities is key, I think, to the success of this Government. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785138 96 En 2026-11-10T14:18:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2896&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12169 12169 John Clark https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12169 Clark, John First Minister, the three small modular reactors at Wylfa are a major opportunity for Bangor Conwy Môn. Peak construction will support thousands of jobs, with hundreds employed for decades after. What concrete steps is the Welsh Government taking on housing, infrastructure, skills and support for local businesses to make sure that this spend and those long-term jobs actually benefit people and businesses here, rather than leaking out of the region? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785143 97 En 2026-11-10T14:18:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2925&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Very important points, and the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy was in Ynys Môn recently talking about those exact issues. There are real opportunities that come from major energy projects, whatever the nature of generation. Developing the supply chain is at the heart of how we maximise that benefit economically. Working with schools, further education colleges and universities to make sure that we have the skills agenda covered is absolutely key, if we are to make sure that we create job opportunities for people living locally. Alongside those opportunities are the challenges that the Member refers to. Housing: be it on this SMR project or previous projects at the same site, there are pressures on housing, on policing and on local services that you have to put your ducks in a row to be able to address, otherwise you are creating more problems than you are gaining. Everything that we're doing as a Government is about making sure that we deal with those challenges and maximise the opportunities. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785209 98 Cy 2026-11-10T14:19:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=2998&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Finally, question 12, Gareth Beer. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785111 99 En 2026-11-10T14:21:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3105&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785112 100 En 2026-11-10T14:21:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3105&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785119 101 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785076 102 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Rural Schools 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785077 103 Cy 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 8650 8650 Gareth Beer https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8650 Beer, Gareth 12. What is the Welsh Government doing to protect rural schools and education in Carmarthenshire? OQ64880 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785078 104 En 2026-11-10T14:20:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3009&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun We know that schools are the focal point of many, many communities. I understand the effect that closures can have in rural areas. However, decisions about school closures in Carmarthenshire and anywhere else in Wales are for local authorities to make. Decisions must, though, of course, take account of the school organisation code, which requires consideration of alternatives to closure and robust assessment of potential impacts on the community. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785090 105 En 2026-11-10T14:20:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3038&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 8650 8650 Gareth Beer https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8650 Beer, Gareth First Minister, on Monday 2 November, I stood with the mums, dads, grandparents, teachers, carers and the children. I witnessed their passion, I felt their heartbreak. They were standing together because they face losing the very heart of their community, their local school, Bancffosfelen, a school with 51 pupils, soon to have 54 pupils—yes, the numbers are increasing. The schools, the pupils, the teachers aren't simply a spreadsheet entry to be moved to another column. The so-called savings will not materialise. The savings, if they exist, will be short-lived. The long-term cost, the disruption, the upheaval will be great. We talk about protecting rural Wales, caring for rural life, nurturing the Welsh language for future generations, but warm words need to move to decisive actions. What firm action is the Welsh Government going to take to protect many schools like it across Carmarthenshire? First Minister, will you agree to meet with a delegation of parents and urgently review these broken rules? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785104 106 En 2026-11-10T14:21:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3104&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member will be aware, of course, that proposals anywhere in Wales around school reorganisation may be later referred to Welsh Ministers for determination, so it's impossible to comment on specific cases. What I would say is this, that local authorities must and do always keep under review the extent to which the existing pattern of school provision meets current and forecast demand for places and requirements of the modern curriculum. That is something that is equally relevant to whatever local authority area we are in Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785113 107 Cy 2026-11-10T14:22:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3143&l=en 261110-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you, First Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785120 108 Cy 2026-11-10T14:22:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3144&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We'll move now to item 2, questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution. Question 1, Zaynub Akbar. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785124 109 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Global Responsibility 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785125 110 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub 1. How is the Welsh Government ensuring that Wales is globally responsible through the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015? OQ64863 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785126 111 En 2026-11-10T14:22:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3163&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution Trystan Davies, Dafydd We consider the wider global impact of our decisions and apply the sustainable development principle in all we do. Our programme for government ensures climate action and nature are prioritised and effectively co-ordinated across Government, embedding decarbonisation, sustainability and environmental protection across all portfolios. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785152 112 En 2026-11-10T14:23:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3184&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub Diolch. I'd like to declare an interest as a graduate of the future generations leadership academy and the co-chair of the futures cross-party group. Under the Act, there are seven well-being goals, one of which is being a globally responsible Wales, which is about being aware of our impact across and beyond our borders. So, I'd like to focus on the role of our NHS in this, in particular, international humanitarian support through the international health co-ordination centre. Through this centre, we're able to share information and knowledge, collaborate and network across Wales, across the UK, across Europe and across the whole world. In particular, I'd like to focus on infection prevention and control. The situation in South Sudan, for example, there's the fastest outbreak at the moment of Ebola. We spoke previously, just last week, about the likelihood or the inevitability of another pandemic in the future. So, I'd like to ask: how is the Welsh Government supporting partnerships to strengthen global health security and deliver on the goal of being a globally responsible Wales? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785151 113 En 2026-11-10T14:24:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3248&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. For us, global responsibility isn't just about the economy or about culture. It goes right across. I'm proud of the work that NHS Wales has done in supporting our ambition as a Government towards global responsibility. That includes overseas aid supported through the shared services partnership and, as the Member has referenced, Public Health Wales's international health co-ordination centre. There are many global health challenges that are best tackled together. The work that the Member for Gower, I remember, highlighted in a previous debate on international matters with ophthalmologists is another excellent example of Wales playing a constructive part in the world. That's why I'm proud that we are an internationalist Government, outward looking, supporting people around the world, rather than the isolationism we see on the benches opposite. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785101 114 En 2026-11-10T14:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3302&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785123 115 En 2026-11-10T14:25:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3309&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12171 12171 David Mills https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12171 Mills, David The well-being of future generations Act should be about leaving Wales in a stronger position for the next generation, not providing the Welsh Government with a blank cheque to spend money all over the world. At a time when our public services are under immense pressure, schools are reporting record low results, and the NHS waiting lists remain unacceptably high, I question whether spending millions of pounds on overseas offices, international initiatives, and as already has been said, initiatives like tree planting, disability inclusive beekeeping in Uganda; these aren’t the right priorities. International development is the responsibility of the UK Government; it is not devolved to Wales. So, what measurable benefits are these overseas commitments actually delivering for the people of Wales and for our future generations? And can the Minister explain how the Welsh Government justifies taking money intended to be spent for the benefit of those at home and our future generations, and lavishing it on others abroad who the Welsh Government has no obligation to? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785133 116 En 2026-11-10T14:26:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3393&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I can reassure the Member that this Government won't be writing blank cheques to anyone, and anyone who knows our finance Minister will know that that is very much the case. We have set out in our manifesto a set of priorities around tackling waiting lists, around childcare, around tackling child poverty, around improving our economy and on schools. Those are the very priorities that will form the cornerstone of our budget. And the Member asks about international spending and whether there are any benefits from international spending. As the First Minister said there, we have attracted significant inward investment to Wales because of our international offices promoting international investment into Wales. And I repeat: we are an internationalist Government that works with the world and abroad, and that is our privilege and our priority. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785139 117 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B UK Government Budget 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785140 118 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12151 12151 Matthew Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12151 Jones, Matthew 2. What assessment has the Cabinet Minister made of the impact of the UK Government budget on delivering the Programme for Government? OQ64862 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785141 119 Cy 2026-11-10T14:27:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3460&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you for the question. This is not a UK Government budget that delivers for the people of Wales. It is disappointing that while the Chancellor stated his intention to shift power and funding out of Westminster that that was not extended to Wales. We have now considered the full implications as we finalise decisions ahead of publishing the Welsh budget next week. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785144 120 En 2026-11-10T14:28:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3486&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12151 12151 Matthew Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12151 Jones, Matthew Diolch, Weinidog. There is so much ambition in the programme for government to tackle some of Wales's toughest problems. For our 27 years of devolution and more, child poverty especially has held Wales back. Initiatives like the Cynnal payment pilot to directly support children in low-income households show so much promise. This is an innovative idea for Wales, based on best practice elsewhere—exactly what devolution should be about. It is great that the programme for government includes this pilot, a vital step in ensuring that Cynnal is viable. But we know our ambition cannot stop at a pilot. If the medium- and long-term forecast for Welsh budgets is as weak as the UK budget indicates, can the Government reassure my constituents that our longer term ambition for projects like Cynnal, which will bring the poorest citizens of Wales out of poverty, will not be forced to end at the pilot stage? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785147 121 En 2026-11-10T14:29:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3547&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I can offer that reassurance to the Member because tackling child poverty, as I set out, is a key priority for this Government. We will, of course, learn from—I mean, that's what pilot projects are. We will look at the pilot, we will learn the lessons and build future action for child poverty based on those successes. However, the Member rightly highlights the importance of Cynnal. It is a source of frustration to me that we have yet to secure agreement from the Department for Work and Pensions to be able to move forward with Cynnal, because colleagues will be aware that we require those disregards within the benefit system to be able to implement Cynnal. We would like to be implementing Cynnal today; we remain waiting, despite their warm words, on the actions of the UK Government, which I hope will come to fruition soon. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785145 122 En 2026-11-10T14:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3602&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785146 123 En 2026-11-10T14:30:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3605&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12160 12160 Stephen Senior https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12160 Senior, Stephen Minister, I just heard what you said. Ten years ago, the Welsh Government received around £14 billion from the UK Government. Now, it's about £28 billion. That's a doubling in a decade. During that time, inflation has been around 42 per cent. So the Welsh Government, in effect, in real terms, gets about a third more than it did a decade ago. Yet many in this Chamber, probably including you, will clothe themselves in the comfortable blanket of austerity. The recent statement from the Cabinet Minister for Finance complained about a 0.5 per cent reduction in real terms next year, and yet this Government continues to pursue wasteful and irrelevant projects such as the shadow broadcasting authority. Today, there's the national commission for independence and the appointment of the great and the good, which will inevitably lead to a suggestion that Welsh independence is viable. Minister, are you prepared to take responsibility and be accountable for how money is spent, or will you fall back into the comfortable arrangement of blaming Westminster, which is something you've already done today? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785148 124 En 2026-11-10T14:31:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3670&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you to the Member for his points. The point on the budget has been made very clearly by my colleague the finance Minister. It is a 0.5 per cent real-terms cut. That is what this Government is facing. However, he might be interested to learn that I have some sympathy with his broader point, which is that over recent years we have seen some growth in the Welsh Government budget and we have not seen an improvement in outcomes for the people of Wales. That is one of the reasons I believe that people voted in a new Government with a new ambition, to offer new leadership for Wales so that we could use our money more effectively to deliver on childcare, on child poverty, on the economy, on schools and on the health service. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785149 125 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785150 126 Cy 2026-11-10T14:31:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3718&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. Reform UK spokesperson, Adrian Mason. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785153 127 En 2026-11-10T14:32:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3727&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian Hello, Cabinet Minister. As you well know, I support greater investment in Welsh rail services, but further devolution is not the only means of achieving it. The Railways Bill is currently before Parliament and provides an opportunity to strengthen the statutory remit of Welsh Ministers. However, these proposed administrative arrangements rely heavily on a memorandum of understanding, and, as you know such agreements are not legally binding, of course. Basically, concerns were raised by the Legislation Committee last month about it. Surely, before seeking further powers, your Government should ensure that the powers and safeguards already available are utilised. Will you seek stronger statutory guarantees for Welsh Ministers under the Railways Bill, as opposed to relying upon measures that cannot be legally enforced? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785156 128 En 2026-11-10T14:33:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3785&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the spokesperson for his questions, which are well put, as is his pattern in this Chamber. The difference between a statutory basis and a memorandum of understanding is, as you set out, an important one. I know my colleague the Deputy Minister for Transport has been in active negotiations with the UK Government to ensure that the Railways Bill properly reflects the role of Welsh Ministers and properly puts that on a statutory footing. I wish him well with those negotiations, as I hope everyone in this Chamber does. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785159 129 En 2026-11-10T14:33:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3822&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian Thank you for your answer. I want to talk about Welsh tribunals now. Your Government has pledged to introduce a Welsh tribunals Bill early in the Senedd term, but we wait to see the proposals, a timetable and updated costs. The figures, however, are particularly concerning. In 2023, an impact assessment estimated the annual costs of a proposed system at about £5.7 million. However, actual expenditure on the existing Welsh tribunals alone reached £6.09 million in 2024-25. These figures raise serious concerns about the financial assumptions underpinning your proposals. Any change must be based on sound evidence, not simply constitutional ambition. So, Cabinet Minister, will you publish the detailed proposals, an implementation timetable and updated costings, so that this Senedd can assess their financial implications? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785164 130 En 2026-11-10T14:34:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3880&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you for the question. I'm sure my colleague the Counsel General, who has been co-ordinating a chunk of this work within Government, will be happy to provide a briefing to Members of the Senedd in due course. As those proposals develop, we will indeed be publishing both an implementation timetable and the costings you refer to. There is, for Members to be aware, a challenge with tribunals. More citizens are seeking guidance from tribunals today than in the past. Colleagues who work in tribunals tell me that people are making creative use of artificial intelligence to make claims before tribunals, and therefore there is a genuine challenge here, which we are working through. My colleague the Counsel General is giving considerable attention to these matters. I'm sure he'd be willing, in due course, to update the Senedd, but also, if Members would like a more detailed technical briefing, to offer that briefing to Members too. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785167 131 En 2026-11-10T14:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3902&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785168 132 En 2026-11-10T14:35:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3942&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian Thank you. I want to talk generally now about devolution, if I may. As a general issue, Cabinet Minister, your Government continues to pursue the transfer of further powers from Westminster to Cardiff. I know you're going to make a statement later, but I'm not going to refer to that at the moment. Devolution should not be an end in itself, though, should it, as I've said in this Chamber many a time. Before seeking additional powers, there must surely be clear evidence of an issue under existing arrangements that transferring powers would actually solve. But there must also be a credible delivery plan, sustainable funding, clear lines of accountability, and, importantly, absolute consideration of the impact upon communities whose economic and social ties extend across the border in England. So, Cabinet Minister, will you commit today to publishing an assessment against each of these tests before bringing forward any further proposals for devolution, so that the Senedd can examine the evidence for itself? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785170 133 En 2026-11-10T14:36:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=3999&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd The Member will be aware that numerous independent commissions have dealt with a number of these proposals. The most esteemed Lord Thomas, in the matter of criminal justice, has looked at those issues and has reached a definitive and clear conclusion as to the criminal justice system. And we will certainly be working towards the implementation of those conclusions.  I'll give the Member another example in the field of youth justice. I had a very productive meeting with my colleague the Deputy First Minister and the Lord Chancellor yesterday. We were discussing further steps on youth justice, as to how we could better bring together the youth justice system, health, education and housing to support young people so that they don't end up incarcerated in our prison system. It's another example of how we might make real progress to improve people's lives through devolution. Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785178 134 Cy 2026-11-10T14:37:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4056&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Welsh Labour spokesperson, Huw Thomas.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785180 135 Cy 2026-11-10T14:37:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4059&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw Minister, we are six months into your period as a Government—an eighth of the way through the term. Let's look at how you are performing, using your own metrics.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785185 136 En 2026-11-10T14:37:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4072&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw Looking on the recently published webpage 'Progress on our priorities', there are six priorities and fewer than a dozen actual data points. I could only find one data set that actually contains data since you've come into Government. So, let's zero in on that. That is, of course, NHS waiting lists. That shows that, since May, waiting lists have gone up 30,000 since you came to office. That includes waiting lists over two years having also gone up. Minister, you're responsible for Government effectiveness. The health Minister claims there is a plan. What is your assessment of why that plan is ineffective, and do you agree with me that a starting point to fixing it should be with milestones and targets, perhaps starting with a date for bringing NHS waiting lists back to where they were when you took office? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785191 137 En 2026-11-10T14:38:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4127&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for his question, where he very effectively highlights the lack of focus on data from the previous Government and quietly welcomes the addition of our digital dashboard to give him updates on transparent progress against our priorities. My colleague the health Minister has been clear: there is much work to be done to bring down two-year waiting lists. We will bring those down within months. As he has beautifully illustrated here today, the digital dashboard will allow everyone in this Chamber to see how well we are doing. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785195 138 En 2026-11-10T14:39:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4166&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw The commitment was given to bring down long-term waiting lists within months. We're now six months through and they've gone back up, Minister. You talk about transparency. Is a handful of key performance indicators really good enough? I've mentioned Cardiff Council's example to you before—197 KPIs published on their website. Why can't the Welsh Government do the same? Because you will be judged on transparent Government delivering effective services. The actions and the announcement last week on the COVID inquiry raised further questions about this Government's preparedness to stick with their commitments. Council tax reform—an issue dodged. A national park in north Wales—a retreat. This is a Government that is disappointing more and more people by avoiding and ducking the difficult questions. My experience, and that of colleagues, on written questions, Minister, is that they often take a long time to answer, sometimes taking months. I've had a constituent tell me just yesterday the Government has told them now they will no longer respond to their questions. Yesterday, your education Minister ran away from a journalist. This is a Government in the bunker, Minister. So— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785166 139 En 2026-11-10T14:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4202&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785177 140 Cy 2026-11-10T14:40:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4242&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw A question, please. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785179 141 En 2026-11-10T14:40:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4243&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw So, the question is: what will you do to ensure transparency actually starts to mean something for this Government? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785183 142 En 2026-11-10T14:40:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4249&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Llywydd, I'm not sure quite how many questions were put there, but I shall do my best on a wide range of them. Let me be clear to all Members here: if you have difficulties or an unacceptable, in your view, delay in terms of written questions, please get in touch with the relevant Minister. We are committed to being an open, transparent Government, and that means giving timely answers to written questions. So, if there are problems, please let me know. The Member raises a fascinating point about Cardiff Council: 'We have 197 KPIs, that is a sign of how we are prioritising'. In my view, 197 priorities is no priorities at all. I make no apology for having a small number of key measures upon which this Government will be judged. We said at the forefront of our manifesto that we would tackle childcare, child poverty, the economy, schools and the health service, and we have set out a basket of key measures in order to track progress on those. It is about prioritisation in difficult circumstances, but prioritise we will. We will focus on the exact priorities that we set out to the people of Wales in our manifesto when we stood and were elected to lead this Government. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785188 143 Cy 2026-11-10T14:42:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4332&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Paul Davies. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785192 144 En 2026-11-10T14:42:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4334&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 145 145 Paul Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=145 Davies, Paul Diolch, Lywydd. Following on with the theme of health, Cabinet Minister, in your statement on delivering the Welsh Government's first 100 days plan in August, you said that you would drive forward delivery on the real priorities of the people of Wales, cutting waiting lists and building a health and care service fit for the future. There are patients being treated in hospitals in appalling conditions—in hospital corridors, and, in some cases, even in hospital cupboards. I'm sure you'll agree with me that is totally unacceptable. Of course, as we've heard, the Government has already u-turned on the promise to hold a Wales-wide COVID public inquiry, waiting lists are up, and ambulance response times are worsening. Therefore, can you tell us what urgent actions you have taken as Cabinet Minister for Government effectiveness to help the Welsh Government build a health and care service fit for the future, as promised in your statement in the summer? Given there is very little data, can you tell us what targets you have set your colleague the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care to make sure we see real improvements in our health service? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785197 145 En 2026-11-10T14:43:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4410&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Clearly, I associate myself with the Member's comments about the unacceptability of patients being treated in cupboards; that is clearly unacceptable. That is why my colleague the Cabinet Minister for health has set out a long-term plan for fixing the foundations of the NHS. That is where we're at, and that is what you need to tackle the legacy of 27 years of poor leadership of the health service. So, there is a challenge there. In terms of targets, in terms of the two-year target, my colleague the health Minister and this Government are clear that we will bring down waiting times within months. That is what we have said, and I repeat that again today. That is clear to everyone: months, not years. We have a dedicated time frame and we are working towards that. I'll give the Member one example: one of the areas that has become clear to me that we need to focus on and consider carefully is the cost basis of the NHS. I was grateful to join the chief exec of the NHS and the director of finance for a very detailed briefing about the range of cost pressures and the range of budgets facing our health boards in Wales, which will allow us to consider the structure of the NHS and what needs to be done. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785201 146 En 2026-11-10T14:44:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4497&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 145 145 Paul Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=145 Davies, Paul Llywydd, the reality is that, despite promises of change during the election campaign, this Government appears to be a continuation of its predecessor, rather than a departure from it. The first responsibility of the Welsh Government must be to listen to the people they are elected to serve, yet, across Wales, communities are facing the prospect of losing access to vital local healthcare services. In mid Wales, in-patient beds could be removed from community hospitals; in west Wales, stroke services are facing proposed cuts and further centralisation, against the will of the people; and in north Wales, the health board is consulting on proposals that could see urgent primary care centre services withdrawn from three hospitals. This is not a health service that is being shaped to meet the future needs of the people of Wales, and what is lacking is clear leadership and a commitment to protecting local healthcare provision. So, how are you ensuring that the Welsh Government has the backbone to stand up to health boards on behalf of the people of Wales, and when can the people of Wales expect to see tangible improvements in NHS performance? And will you challenge your own Cabinet colleagues on their oversight and management of health boards to ensure greater transparency and accountability for persistent failures in our NHS? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785128 147 En 2026-11-10T14:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4502&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785169 148 En 2026-11-10T14:46:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4574&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd The Member will know that, as a Government, we work as a team, and I work closely with my Cabinet colleague the Minister for health, and our Deputy Ministers in health, to drive forward our agenda—driving forward our agenda, which looks to reduce waiting times, which looks to better integrate health and social care and, crucially, to prioritise preventative health. That is a long-term goal, and it is crucial for the long-term sustainability of our health and social care system. That is what we set out to do, that is what, over the next four years, the people of Wales should judge us on whether we have achieved or not. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785171 149 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Devolution of Employment Support Funding 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785172 150 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12168 12168 Donna Cushing https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12168 Cushing, Donna 3. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government on the devolution of employment support funding? OQ64858 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785173 151 En 2026-11-10T14:47:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4624&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd We are in ongoing discussions with the UK Government and see potential opportunities in genuine devolution of employment support funding. However, important details remain unclear, including funding levels, any conditions attached and the flexibility available to Wales. We will continue to engage with the UK Government before any decisions are taken. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785176 152 En 2026-11-10T14:47:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4645&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12168 12168 Donna Cushing https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12168 Cushing, Donna Diolch. Employment support funding means more than simply helping jobseekers to find employment. It is a valuable way of supporting unemployed people across Wales, including young people not in education, employment or training—also known as NEET—to build their confidence and employability skills. There were 22,000 18 to 24-year-olds in south-east Wales, which includes my constituency of Sir Fynwy Torfaen, who are NEET, in the three-year period ending December 2025. This figure is staggering. We must all ensure that every young person benefits from tailored support to help them get the best start in their working life. Cabinet Minister, your Government has rightly committed to developing a new skills strategy for Wales to strengthen pathways into education, training and employment for young people who are NEET. How will the Welsh Government ensure that any potential devolution of employment funding support to Wales ensures that additional help reaches young people who are NEET in Sir Fynwy Torfaen? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785189 153 En 2026-11-10T14:48:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4706&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you to the Member for the question. I think we should all be deeply concerned at the growing levels of young people who are classed as NEET. I agree that employment support is about much more than simply matching someone to a job. Effective support needs to recognise the barriers that young people face and help them to build the confidence, skills and experience to progress into education, training or employment. That's why I see potential opportunities in the further devolution, and our objective is to secure the resources and genuine flexibility necessary to design support around Welsh needs and priorities—the needs of our younger people and citizens. We would want the flexibility to develop a more targeted, evidence-led and financially sustainable Welsh approach, where employability support works alongside our skills, education and economic development priorities. But let's be clear, getting young people who are not in education, employment or training into work requires action on both sides of the labour market. Yes, we need effective employability support, but that can only succeed if there are enough employment opportunities in Sir Fynwy Torfaen and in communities right across Wales. And that is why our approach to the economy, through our productivity mission, and the creation of a new development agency is so vital to future success. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785196 154 En 2026-11-10T14:49:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4797&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5113 5113 Nigel Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5113 Williams, Nigel If you'll forgive me, Llywydd, before my question, I wish to put on record my disgust at the abhorrent online comments made with respect to my colleague for Fflint Wrecsam, Cristiana Emsley. We should all condemn this behaviour. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785154 155 En 2026-11-10T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4802&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785174 156 En 2026-11-10T14:50:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4812&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Could I ask the Member, please, to ask the question? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785175 157 En 2026-11-10T14:50:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4814&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5113 5113 Nigel Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5113 Williams, Nigel I'll ask the question now. I've said what I need to say. Thank you very much. Cabinet Minister, devolving employment support funding is only meaningful if it delivers practical help in our communities. Following the agreement with the UK Government, can you tell us how much of that funding will reach people in Fflint Wrecsam, when they can expect to see it, and how you will ensure it helps local people gain skills, including digital and AI skills, to help them move into sustainable employment? Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785155 158 En 2026-11-10T14:50:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4842&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for his question. I may be missing something, Llywydd, but I'm not sure we have reached agreement on the devolution of employment support funding yet. There are a set of principles that I've set out in my answer to the question previously about how a Welsh system would need to be flexible, would need to meet the needs of young people in Fflint Wrecsam, as they would the needs of young people in Sir Fynwy Torfaen. I think there are real possibilities there, and I think it fits with the agenda of the new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. It fits precisely with the agenda set out by the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy here in the Senedd. So, in bringing that together, I think there is real potential, and I hope we can have further debates as to what the best solution is for Wales in terms of employment support to get all of those young people a proper job and skills where they can develop and flourish. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785157 159 En 2026-11-10T14:51:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4906&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav Minister, constitutional change should be about improving outcomes rather than simply acquiring additional powers. Given the success of programmes such as Working Wales in providing cohesive support for people seeking employment, what discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government on devolving employment support funding? And what evidence has it used to demonstrate that Wales could deliver those services more effectively under devolved control? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785158 160 En 2026-11-10T14:52:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4931&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd The Member highlights some very effective employment support schemes that the Welsh Government has been part of in the past, and therefore I believe there is a strong basis for evidence to suggest that the Welsh Government could do a good job of employment support training for young people. The discussions with the UK Government are at an early stage, and we will be pursuing those discussions vigorously, because, for the reasons outlined by Members right around this Chamber, there is a real potential there. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785160 161 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Devolution of Welfare Powers 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785161 162 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 4491 4491 Alun Cox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4491 Cox, Alun 4. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to secure the further devolution of welfare powers? OQ64871 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785162 163 Cy 2026-11-10T14:52:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4972&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Our programme for government commits us to developing a compassionate welfare system for Wales. We are progressing this work and exploring opportunities to seek greater welfare powers for Wales. The Deputy First Minister will shortly make an oral statement on this matter, and I don't wish to pre-empt that important statement. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785163 164 En 2026-11-10T14:53:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=4994&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 4491 4491 Alun Cox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4491 Cox, Alun Diolch, Weinidog Cabinet. The Welsh Government's plans to pilot Cynnal for up to 15,000 children is a hugely welcome step in the battle against child poverty. The difference this could make for low-income families is significant, and we must explore how it could eventually be rolled out across Wales. Afan Ogwr Rhondda has the highest proportion of primary and secondary school pupils eligible for means-tested free school meals, and the highest economic inactivity rate of any Senedd constituency. Cynnal could make a huge difference to families in my constituency, particularly with the rising cost of living. Scotland's child payment has demonstrated what can be achieved with welfare powers that Wales does not currently possess. And sceptical Members here are always asking for evidence. It seems as if they're not really looking for that evidence. Can the Cabinet Minister outline what further powers are needed to expand Cynnal beyond the pilot and what steps the Welsh Government is taking to secure them? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785165 165 En 2026-11-10T14:54:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5061&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. Scotland is able to deliver the Scottish child payment, which has, as the Member notes, been a significant success, because it has devolved welfare powers that Wales does not currently have. Those powers give the Scottish Government—[Interruption.] Those powers give the Scottish Government greater flexibility to design, legislate for and administer its own forms of financial support, including establishing the regulatory and delivery frameworks needed to operate payments such as the Scottish child payment. Those are the kinds of discussions that we are having with the UK Government. There is a real opportunity there. There is a need to move quickly on the benefit disregards in relation to the Cynnal pilot. But the prize, as the Member outlines, is far greater than that, looking to the longer term and the devolution of welfare and effective support for people in poverty in communities right across Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785181 166 En 2026-11-10T14:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5102&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785182 167 En 2026-11-10T14:55:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5126&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12161 12161 Sarah Edwards https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12161 Edwards, Sarah Minister, Reform's position is clear: no more devolution in any area; just do better with the powers you already have. We've seen that, even with your flagship childcare policy, there is no plan, no costings, no modelling for levels of uptake. So, imagine what would happen with the welfare system with Plaid at the helm. You may want more powers, but what assessment has the Welsh Government made regarding the financial risks of devolving these powers, having regard to the potential volatility of a demand-led welfare system? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785186 168 En 2026-11-10T14:56:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5172&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. I really do wonder whether Members who are criticising the development of the childcare programme have been watching the news recently and seen the very positive news that the roll-out of childcare to two-year-olds will be complete by next March, at 12.5 hours a week, which is good news. Nineteen out of the 22 local authorities have already made significant progress on the roll-out of childcare, and what that means is that families with two-year-olds, right across Wales, are benefiting from the actions of this Plaid Cymru Government. The Member also made points about welfare. I think we do need to be clear-headed about the devolution of powers and the financial implications around them, and to ensure, when powers are transferred, that the appropriate financial mechanisms are in place from the UK Government. That has happened in most cases in the past, but not in all of them. And I know one of the areas where my colleague the Deputy Minister for Transport is very keen to ensure effective devolution and effective financial underpinning of that devolution is in the field of railways. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785210 169 Cy 2026-11-10T14:57:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5254&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Good afternoon, Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785212 170 En 2026-11-10T14:57:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5256&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane I welcome the commitment to further devolution of welfare powers and, indeed, all other powers. It's ambitious and it has a vision, which is unlike the party opposite in Reform UK. So, let me give you an example of further ambition. The basic income for care leavers pilot shows what is possible with the devolution of welfare powers. In the report published in February, young people spoke about the financial security, independence and opportunity that they had to plan for their futures that the pilot gave them. But, without greater control over welfare powers, we do remain limited in how we can support vulnerable people, particularly our care leavers, for whom we are their corporate parents. So, as we await the full evaluation of the basic income pilot, which will come next summer as I understand, we should already be looking at what comes next. So, could you tell me how you will be using the additional powers, which hopefully we get, to deliver a permanent basic income for care leavers? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785217 171 En 2026-11-10T14:58:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5324&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. I'm certainly not going to earn the ire of my Cabinet colleagues by entering into their portfolio areas in terms of plans for the future. But what I would say is that Plaid Cymru supported the basic income pilot undertaken by the previous Government. There are basic income schemes being piloted, being tried out around the world. It is clearly part of the welfare system for a progressive, modern country in the twenty-first century facing joblessness and a whole range of technological challenges. So, while you wouldn't expect me to make any commitments here now, we as a Government, we as a party are certainly open to those discussions, and would look to be ambitious and flexible in our approach to support people in Wales with better welfare support. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785222 172 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Rail Infrastructure Devolution 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785223 173 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12143 12143 Niamh Salkeld https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12143 Salkeld, Niamh 5. What assessment has the Cabinet Minister made of the implications of the UK Government budget for the devolution of railway infrastructure? OQ64861 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785224 174 Cy 2026-11-10T14:59:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5395&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd The UK autumn budget reinforces our resolve to stand up for Wales and press the case for fairer rail funding and a pathway to full devolution. Wales stands ready to deliver, but we need the powers and funding to match that ambition and deliver better outcomes for passengers. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785184 175 Cy 2026-11-10T15:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5402&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785187 176 En 2026-11-10T15:00:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5416&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12143 12143 Niamh Salkeld https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12143 Salkeld, Niamh Diolch, Weinidog Cabinet. It's incredibly disappointing but not a surprise that Wales has once again been short-changed by the UK Government when it comes to rail funding. Ahead of the autumn budget, the Cabinet Minister for Finance asked the UK Government for the £1 billion of the £14 billion that we were promised, yet Wales will receive just £30 million of that. This is a significant cut from what we were promised, and hugely lets down the people that I represent in Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni who are still fighting for that much-needed investment in rail.  The only way we can fully invest in rail here in Wales is by devolving it, giving us the power to make the decisions that matter. We're closer to the people of Wales and better placed to understand their needs. So, Cabinet Minister, what discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government over the need for us to see rail devolved in Wales to finally end this injustice that we face under consecutive UK Governments? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785194 177 En 2026-11-10T15:01:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5476&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. The point is exceptionally well made. Rail infrastructure over generations has been underfunded in Wales by the UK Government. At last, we thought we were making progress when that £14 billion plan was announced by the then UK Prime Minister. That's the kind of scale of investment that is necessary to correct the underfunding of Welsh railways over the generations that the Member has highlighted. And yet—and yet—we are offered a measly £30 million for a project that is likely to cost in excess of £150 million for one train station. That is the extent of the UK Government's ambition and commitment to Wales. So, my colleague the Deputy Minister for Transport has been engaged in discussions with the UK Government about the devolution of railway. That requires both the powers and the funding to deliver a better railway system, to deliver a modern, fit-for-the-future system for Wales. I very much hope those discussions will conclude successfully. It is time for the UK Government and their commitment of £14 billion to write the cheque. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785198 178 En 2026-11-10T15:02:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5559&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai Minister, a fortnight ago, the UK Government announced funding for a new station in my constituency, Cardiff parkway, which would be on a main line, running trains on to Bristol and London. Of course, this wouldn't be the first station to connect Welsh passengers to England. The latest figures show 10.5 million cross-border rail journeys a year between the two nations. Indeed, many Members here today couldn't get here without a train journey that goes through many parts of England, such as Chester, Shrewsbury and Hereford. That cross-border network is critical to maintain, which is why, in 2021, a former Department for Transport adviser warned Westminster's Welsh Affairs Committee that devolving rail risked, quote, 'the fragmentation of a network that runs beyond the Welsh border.' Does the Minister recognise the value rail infrastructure in England has on the people of Wales, and do you also recognise the risk to maintaining that infrastructure if responsibility is broken up, as your Government proposes? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785203 179 En 2026-11-10T15:03:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5620&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I hesitate to advise the Member to spend some time travelling on railways in Europe. If he travelled on the Eurostar to Brussels, his mind would be blown. He'd have to go through at least four countries who have an integrated railway system that works well together. That's what happens when systems work well together. We are clear: we don't want Wales to be isolated and cut off; we want Wales to be part of a broader network, both within these islands and beyond, because we are an internationalist party, and we will follow through on those principles, whether it's on railways, whether it's on global responsibility, whether it's on healthcare or on education, because those are our principles, and that is how we get better services for the people of Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785207 180 En 2026-11-10T15:04:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5673&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12176 12176 Paul Rock https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12176 Rock, Paul The UK Government's autumn budget was a real missed opportunity for Wales, and a missed opportunity on the climate, which was not mentioned once in John Healey's speech. After this summer's deadly heatwaves, there has never been a more urgent need to accelerate the shift away from fossil fuels, and one of the best ways we can do that is by investing in public transport, making it easier to leave the car at home. The UK Government is, of course, responsible for rail infrastructure, but the £14 billion, as we've heard it has repeatedly promised, is still stuck in the station, waiting for a driver. The Burns delivery unit was established in 2021 to accelerate the new Burns stations, but five years later, we're still waiting for construction to start. We desperately need stations like Cardiff east, which will serve Adamsdown, Roath and Penylan, in my own constituency. Does the Cabinet Minister agree that funding trickling through Westminster in such a piecemeal manner undermines devolution and undermines public confidence in the transition to more sustainable modes of transport? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785193 181 En 2026-11-10T15:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5702&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785199 182 En 2026-11-10T15:05:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5703&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785243 183 En 2026-11-10T15:06:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5783&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785200 184 En 2026-11-10T15:05:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5744&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Absolutely. The Member makes the points very powerfully. If we are to tackle climate change, we need an effective public transport system. We need an effective public transport system that is reliable, that is timely, that is cost-effective, and precisely those things can be delivered by the Welsh Government if powers were devolved and the necessary funding followed. That is our ambition and that is what we want to see. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785202 185 En 2026-11-10T15:06:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5782&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The Minister is being fulsome in his answers, which we all appreciate, but we are indeed running beyond time and I want to get a few more Members in. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785310 186 Cy 2026-11-10T15:06:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5791&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Question 6, Louise Emery. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785204 187 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Public Services Boards 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785205 188 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12182 12182 Louise Emery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12182 Emery, Louise 6. What assessment has the Cabinet Minister made of the effectiveness of public services boards in north Wales? OQ64865 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785206 189 En 2026-11-10T15:06:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5800&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Public services boards play an important role in improving local and regional well-being. Across north Wales, the three PSBs combine data and lived experience to develop a shared understanding of challenges and opportunities. I'm exploring how to remove some of the barriers and strengthen partnerships, enabling PSBs to fulfil their duties and priorities. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785208 190 En 2026-11-10T15:06:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5820&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12182 12182 Louise Emery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12182 Emery, Louise Oh, I wasn't expecting that answer. I was hoping you were going to tell us that you were going to scrap them, because Audit Wales in 2019 said that PSBs were unlikely to realise their potential unless they were given more freedom to work more flexibly, and it basically said that with a lack of dedicated funding, it limits their work and impact. This was followed up by the future generations report in 2025, which said the structures across Wales were too complicated, and, obviously, these boards were set up to deliver on those objectives. Having been a councillor on one of these boards, I can assure you, they are ineffective. And I was really, really hoping, following last November, when the previous Labour Government said it planned to review them—. I can't find the published outcome of that review. They're just not working, Minister. Please, please, will you find the review that was done in November 2025 and speak to some of your colleagues that were in the previous Government? We need a few less of these things, and they're not working. Please consider scrapping them. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785214 191 En 2026-11-10T15:07:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5881&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for her question. I'm mindful of the Llywydd's warning. We could discuss the regional geographies of Wales at great length— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785215 192 En 2026-11-10T15:08:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5890&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw No. [Laughter.] 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785216 193 En 2026-11-10T15:08:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5893&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I shall simply say this, then. It is my view that the landscape is too complicated, that it tends towards inefficiency and that we need to do something about it, and I commit to trying to do something about it. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785219 194 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Programme for Government 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785220 195 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art 7. How will the Cabinet Minister measure the success of the Welsh Government's programme for government? OQ64872 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785221 196 En 2026-11-10T15:08:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5918&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Our programme for government outlines clear priorities and measurable outcomes. By focusing efforts where they can have the greatest impact, we will deliver real improvements that people feel in their everyday lives. The first iteration of our digital dashboard, as we've heard, provides a transparent view of progress.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785225 197 En 2026-11-10T15:08:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=5934&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art Plaid's programme for government speaks of years of drift and stagnation and of flawed strategies and unfocused spending by the previous administrations. I agree with you. The new programme concedes that good intentions are not enough, yet it risks repeating the same mistakes of the previous Labour Government. On child poverty: clear targets, benchmarks, milestones are left to a future plan. On waiting lists: the programme promises only to cut waiting times, with no figure and no deadline. On schools: a literacy and numeracy plan has been published, but its attainment targets are yet to be set. And the 20,000 social homes target is effectively a reset of the previous Welsh Labour's target—one that was failed to be met. The programme also provides for a midterm review to allow for flexibility. Previous Governments set deadlines, missed them, moved them, then the 2020 child poverty target was moved, then abandoned; the deadline for ending two-year waits was missed, moved, missed again and nobody was ever held to account. Cabinet Minister, I mean this sincerely: will you publish a delivery timetable with a deadline for every commitment in this programme? And will you come to the Senedd to explain each one that is missed, rather than quietly redefining it in a midterm review, for the betterment of the people of Wales? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785227 198 En 2026-11-10T15:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6002&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785231 199 En 2026-11-10T15:10:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6035&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785228 200 En 2026-11-10T15:10:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6015&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd As we've illustrated with the waiting times target, of reducing them within months, we're working towards those things. I look forward to reporting progress to the Senedd on each of our five key priorities. We shall do so transparently, and I'm sure Members here will hold me to account on our progress, or not. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785229 201 Cy 2026-11-10T15:10:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6033&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Finally, question 8, Mike Hedges. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785233 202 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Improving Productivity 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785234 203 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike 8. What is the Cabinet Minister doing to improve the productivity of the Welsh Government civil service and other publicly funded bodies? OQ64850 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785235 204 En 2026-11-10T15:10:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6043&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Improving productivity is central to my Government effectiveness portfolio. We are focusing people and resources where they can make the greatest difference, reducing duplication and unnecessary processes, and making responsible use of digital technology, data and artificial intelligence. We also support publicly funded bodies through clear priorities, shared learning, stronger governance and proportionate oversight. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785326 205 Cy 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution I The Deputy Presiding Officer (Kerry Ferguson) took the Chair. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785238 206 En 2026-11-10T15:11:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6066&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike Well, the last industrial revolution produced huge efficiency gains from the use of word processing to replace typing, spreadsheets to replace manual accounts, and computer-aided design and computer-aided manufacturing to automate design and production. The Welsh Government have made progress in sending correspondence and documents electronically. As we start the fourth industrial revolution, which includes artificial intelligence, how is the Welsh Government going to use artificial intelligence to improve government efficiency? When will we see hospital appointments routinely sent via text and e-mail, rather than via letters, which sometimes arrive after the appointment? When will AI, which has been proved to be successful in analysing medical images, patient data and other information to assist in diagnosing disease, often detecting patterns and correlations that might be missed by humans, be used routinely in Welsh hospitals? There's a lot of efficiency savings in there. Are you going to make them? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785246 207 En 2026-11-10T15:11:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6119&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I intend to make efficiency savings right across this Government. The Member has highlighted a number of areas around data, around artificial intelligence and around digital. Some of them require integration of data systems, which we are working on. Some of them require the responsible use of artificial intelligence. We've all seen some pretty shocking uses of artificial intelligence in recent weeks, which should give us pause for thought, at the very least. But the very opportunities that that digital revolution offers give us a great opportunity to develop the efficiency and effectiveness of Welsh Government. And if we do that, we will better deliver priorities for the people we serve. Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785250 208 Cy 2026-11-10T15:12:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6165&l=en 261110-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you very much, Cabinet Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785253 209 Cy 2026-11-10T15:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6002&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry On now to the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd, Heledd Fychan. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785256 210 Cy 2026-11-10T15:12:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6170&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Trefnydd, Chief Whip and Cabinet Minister for Culture and Sport Fychan, Heledd Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. There are three changes to this week's business. Oral statements on the National Commission for Wales and the cost of living have been added to today's agenda. Members will also have realised, I'm sure, that First Minister's questions have been extended to 60 minutes to more accurately reflect current practice. Draft Plenary business for the next three weeks is shown on the business statement, which is available to Members electronically. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785259 211 Cy 2026-11-10T15:13:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6197&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you. Llŷr Powell. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785260 212 En 2026-11-10T15:13:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6198&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 11971 11971 Llŷr Powell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=11971 Powell, Llyr Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Sixty-eight million pounds of Welsh local government pension funds was invested into Bute Energy. This was around the same period that £58 million of value was being extracted by shareholders. Trefnydd, I'm aware that the Welsh Government isn't in charge of the local government pension pot, but could the Government come forward with a statement to provide clarity to so many people out there right now that are concerned about where their money was invested, how this could happen, and that how a company could have £68 million and not a single operational windfarm has been built by this company? Trefnydd, they deserve answers. Will the Welsh Government step forward? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785263 213 Cy 2026-11-10T15:14:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6242&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you for raising that very important issue. I will make the Cabinet Minister for local government aware that you raises this issue, and see how we can take this forward. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785265 214 En 2026-11-10T15:14:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6255&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne Trefnydd, last week I questioned the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability on the wildfires summit. Now, the actions arising from that summit are very positive and very worthy, but as I said last week, what I'm concerned about is that there is absolutely no funding attached to them, and also we've not been given any information on timescales for that work being taken forward. Now, farmers in my constituency need help now. What they're going through is not taken account of in the sustainable farming scheme. I'm also really worried that none of us want to see a situation in Wales such as we saw last summer with so many fires everywhere. We absolutely have to have some timescales for action on this, and some funding attached, and I do believe that the First Minister or another Minister needs to come to the Chamber and answer questions in an oral statement on this. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785211 215 En 2026-11-10T15:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6302&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785218 216 Cy 2026-11-10T15:15:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6321&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising this issue. The Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability is attending COP31 this week, and wildfires is something that will be on the agenda. It's important that we do share good practice, and that we learn from good practice internationally as well, and certainly we will be updating the Chamber as the work proceeds. You will have heard the First Minister personally stating that we are taking this very seriously, and certainly I will be making him aware that you have raised this issue again with me today.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785230 217 En 2026-11-10T15:15:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6357&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 145 145 Paul Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=145 Davies, Paul Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care on the performance of the ambulance service across Wales. I've been contacted by the family of an 85-year-old constituent, Mr Lambert, who last week suffered a fall at his home and waited for an ambulance for over 16 hours. I'm sure you'll agree with me that this is totally unacceptable and raises serious concerns about ambulance response times, capacity pressures within the service, and the impact such delays are having on some of the most vulnerable people in our communities. Mr Lambert was let down by the service and it's vital that lessons are now learnt, and that urgent action is taken to improve response times across Wales. Therefore, given the serious nature of this case and the wider concerns surrounding ambulance performance across Wales, I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Welsh Government outlining the steps being taken to improve response times, so that we can be confident that experiences like Mr Lambert's do not happen again. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785237 218 En 2026-11-10T15:16:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6421&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Well, thank you to the Member for raising that issue, and obviously, for Mr Lambert, it clearly would have been extremely distressing. I'm sure each of us as Senedd Members have been contacted by constituents where standards have fallen short of what is to be expected when it comes to ambulance waiting times. I will make the Cabinet Minister aware of your request and update accordingly. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785239 219 En 2026-11-10T15:17:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6450&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12143 12143 Niamh Salkeld https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12143 Salkeld, Niamh Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement, please, on the Welsh Government's progress in protecting and advancing LGBTQ+ rights in Wales. Stonewall recently published a major report, giving us an important opportunity to reflect on the progress being made towards LGBTQ+ equality in Wales and the challenges that still remain. While the report highlights that progress is happening in acceptance over the last decade, half of LGBTQ+ people remain pessimistic about their future, rising to 80 per cent amongst trans people. Nobody should have to live in fear of discrimination simply because of who they are. At a time when LGBTQ+ rights are increasingly being drawn into divisive political debates across the world, Wales must continue to stand firmly for equality, dignity and inclusion. So, I'd be really grateful, Trefnydd, if the Deputy First Minister could update the Senedd on what's being done in light of these findings. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785242 220 Cy 2026-11-10T15:18:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6507&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising that important issue. The Stonewall report did offer a mixed picture of the situation for LGBTQ+ people in Wales. I very much hope that you will have heard unambiguously the First Minister stating earlier that we as a Government reject any discrimination, be that on the basis of sexuality or race. It's important that everyone should feel safe here in Wales and should be supported. So, certainly the Deputy First Minister will have heard your comments this afternoon. But let me be unambiguous that the programme for government sets a commitment on us to work with those who have direct lived experience to promote equality, including LGBTQ+ equality, to strengthen provision and accountability, and to report on progress and effect. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785254 221 En 2026-11-10T15:19:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6561&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James Cabinet Minister, I'd like to have two statements, please, from the Cabinet Minister for rural resilience, one on the bovine TB issue across our country. We've been waiting now for a number of months and years for the outcome of the technical advisory group's view on how we need to tackle bovine TB in Wales. We in Reform are very clear that that needs to happen via a targeted intervention in infected wildlife. So, it'd be very useful to get an update from the Government on when that advice is going to come forward, so farmers across Wales can have some assurance about how they're going to invest in the future in getting more cattle into our system. I'd also like a second statement ahead of the Brexit renegotiation on 20 November. Successive UK Governments failed for the people who voted for Brexit by giving uncharted access for European fishing vessels across British and Welsh waters. And it comes to the fore that, apparently, our current Prime Minister is going to extend that up to 2038, something that is another betrayal of the people across our country who fish. So I'd just like to know what representations has the Welsh Government made to the UK Government to ensure we do not have another sell-out of Welsh and British fisheries. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785213 222 En 2026-11-10T15:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6602&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785236 223 Cy 2026-11-10T15:20:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6636&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising the two issues. In terms of the first issue, there has been a commitment to ensure that there will be an update once the Cabinet Minister has considered the recommendations in terms of bovine TB, and certainly I will have a discussion with him on that. But I am aware that it's the intention to bring forward a statement very soon. In terms of the further points that you raised, we do welcome as a Government the announcement that there will be a summit on 20 November. The European Union, as you know, continues to be the biggest and most important trading partner for Wales, so I will make sure that the Minister is aware of the comments that you have raised today. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785248 224 En 2026-11-10T15:21:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6685&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 5107 5107 Vikki Howells https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5107 Howells, Vikki Let's Respect Retail is the national campaign organised by the Retail Trust and supported by the Welsh Retail Consortium and USDAW, which aims to promote kindness, courtesy and respect towards workers and customers, especially during the busy festive trading season. Trade union USDAW, of which I'm a member, notes that, over the last 12 months, 69 per cent of retail workers were verbally abused, 45 per cent were threatened and 12 per cent were assaulted by customers. Now, the UK Labour Government's new Crime and Policing Act 2026, with its crackdown on retail attacks and theft, is expected to come into force, but could we have a statement from the Cabinet Minister for economy on what the Welsh Government is doing to support this vital sector and the workers it employs? I'd also welcome a statement from the Deputy Minister for Transport on pavement parking. This is a major issue for people in my constituency of Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr, especially on terraced streets, and for those with visual or mobility impairments, and families with pushchairs. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785255 225 Cy 2026-11-10T15:22:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6746&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising those two issues. Clearly, in terms of your first point, we as a Government would be firm on the point that nobody should face a situation such as the one you describe in undertaking their daily responsibilities. We've seen some very worrying statistics in recent years. I, like many other Members, I'm sure, have heard directly from people who have suffered violence at work, and that is entirely unacceptable. Of course, I will make the Cabinet Minister aware of the points that you've raised today.  In terms of your second point, clearly, in terms of pavement parking, that is something that many of us will have had correspondence from constituents on. I know that the Deputy Minister for Transport is looking at this issue. It is work that was happening under the previous Government, and certainly there will be an update provided as that work progresses. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785262 226 En 2026-11-10T15:23:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6809&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Can I call, Cabinet Minister, for a statement from the Cabinet Minister for health on NHS waste—wasteful spending, that is? In recent weeks it has emerged that the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has continued to fund researchers at the Centre for Society and Mental Health at Bangor University. They've been paying £4 million for this over a 14-year period. They're still allocating money to the centre today, and this is in spite of the fact that an NHS report internally in January of this year concluded that, and I quote: ‘It is unclear what services the health board are receiving and paying for, and how beneficial it is to the population of north Wales’. And this is on top of another story in north Wales about a broken tap in the emergency department at Glan Clwyd Hospital first reported on 7 August, not repaired until 26 October—over 1 million litres of water estimated to have gone literally down the drain, along with the costs associated with it. It's obviously symptomatic of a health board that's inefficient, doesn't have a grip on its finances and doesn't have respect for taxpayers' money. Can we have a statement about what the Welsh Government's doing to tackle that sort of inefficient use of public money, please? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785273 227 Cy 2026-11-10T15:24:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6885&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd The Member will be aware that we have a Cabinet Minister for government effectiveness, who has just been responding to questions this afternoon, because that is exactly the kind of issue that we want to tackle, to ensure that every pound spent in our public services does go towards those services. If the Member has examples of issues that we should be looking at, then certainly I would encourage you to ensure that the Cabinet Minister for health is made aware of them, if he isn't aware already. I can also assure you that the Cabinet Minister for health is looking very carefully at this. It is important that we secure value for money, and I hope that this Government's commitment to doing that is something that, I'm sure, the Cabinet Minister for Finance could echo too. It's a priority for all Ministers, not just in relation to health. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785226 228 Cy 2026-11-10T15:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6902&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785232 229 Cy 2026-11-10T15:25:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=6945&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera Trefnydd, could I ask for a statement from the Deputy Minister for Transport—and I'm very pleased to see him in the Chamber with us today—regarding an update on the review of the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008? I keep hearing from parents and learners about the reliability and safety of the current arrangements. In one recent incident, a bus broke down in Rhondda Cynon Taf on a road where the speed limit is 40 mph. The bus was full of students and they were told to walk. No refund or alternative transport was offered to them. Because of this, parents have to leave work to pick up their kids. It puts learners at a disadvantage at a crucial time in their lives. It would be useful to receive an update on the review, along with reassurance that the experiences of parents, learners, schools and local authorities will help shape a more co-ordinated and reliable approach to learner travel. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785251 230 En 2026-11-10T15:27:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7062&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785240 231 Cy 2026-11-10T15:26:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7006&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising that particular example; I know that there are a number of other examples across Wales too. Let me be clear: we as a Government do expect local authorities to comply with their statutory duties and to ensure that the decisions made are fair, evidence-based and focus on the individual needs of learners. I know that the Deputy Minister for Transport will be meeting with fellow Cabinet Ministers next week to discuss learner travel. It is something that many of us as Ministers have been discussing already, and an update will be provided following that meeting. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785244 232 En 2026-11-10T15:27:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7049&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Cabinet Minister, can I request an urgent statement from you on support for oil-heated households this winter? Carmarthenshire had around 19,000 oil-only households at the 2021 census count, more than any other Welsh county. In Llannon, Crosshands and Pen-y-groes, 68 per cent of all households used oil alone. Yesterday, the Welsh Government announced £5 million for single £250 payments to eligible oil and liquid petroleum gas-heated households. That is equivalent to 20,000 payments, yet around 105,000 Welsh households relied solely on oil in 2021. Carmarthenshire accounts for nearly one in five of them, so paying all 19,000 households, hypothetically, £250 would cost £4.75 million. That's almost all the entire national allocation. Of course, I know this is an income-restricted scheme, and I'm not suggesting that every household qualifies. I want a statement, if I could, on how many households are expected to qualify, including in Carmarthenshire, when payments will reach them and what help is available to those who are struggling and who fall outside the scheme. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785247 233 Cy 2026-11-10T15:28:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7116&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member. Could I ask very kindly for Members to take responsibility to look at what's on the agenda before rising and asking for a statement? This happened last week as well, where there was a statement on COVID on the agenda. This afternoon, the next statement is on this exact issue. So, there is an opportunity for the Member to raise this issue with the Minister. The purpose of the business statement is to ask for statements that are not on the agenda. We publish the agenda. It's available for three weeks to come as well. It's the responsibility of all Members to check that agenda. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785249 234 En 2026-11-10T15:29:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7153&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Prynhawn da, Drefnydd. I'd like to request two statements, if I may, with regard to Powys Teaching Health Board. Firstly, we've been told time and time again, including by your Government, that we must wait for the outcome of the consultation process. Part of this involves five-hour sessions with residents across Powys. And yet we have just been told that Powys Teaching Health Board are not taking any record of what people say at those events. It seems to be a total waste of time. Chief executives of the health board are going along, as well as residents, and yet their responses are not being recorded. So, I'd like to hear what steps the Welsh Government is taking in order to ensure that residents' views are recorded. And secondly, again on Powys Teaching Health Board, cross-border healthcare. You've said you want to cut waiting times, which of course is welcome, yet figures that we've obtained show that two-year waits at the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt Orthopaedic Hospital have risen by 370 per cent since 2022. So, we'd also like a statement in relation to waiting times and cross-border healthcare. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785241 235 En 2026-11-10T15:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7202&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785245 236 Cy 2026-11-10T15:30:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7225&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising those two issues. In terms of the first point, you will be aware that it's the Welsh Government's expectation that consultation should happen, as it should. If you have specific concerns, I hope that you have written to the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care on those issues, but I would also encourage you, as the consultation is the health board's responsibility, to raise any concerns that you have with the chief executive and the board too, because each consultation should be undertaken in a way in which people can have credibility in the process, and that people's voices are heard and, as you said, are supported. In terms of an update on waiting times and cross-border healthcare access, you will be aware that we are regularly updating in terms of the waiting lists for access. I will raise the specific point that you've raised with me with the Cabinet Minister for health. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785257 237 Cy 2026-11-10T15:31:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7286&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12149 12149 Lis McLean https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12149 McLean, Lis Last week, I visited Barnardo's on the Gurnos in Merthyr Tydfil. After seeing and hearing about the fantastic work that they are doing there, I had an opportunity to sit down and talk to them about what's facing them in our community. One of the things that they talked about was the hidden costs of going to school, basically. They were talking about the fact that people were struggling to pay for school uniforms, trips, and all kinds of other things. Then, when they don't go to school because they can't afford to go to school, they are fined for not going to school—fines for absence. That affects families living in my community. So, could the Minister please ask the Ministers for social justice and education to make a statement on what steps the Welsh Government is taking to ensure that school uniform policies are not causing barriers for children and low-income families to have access to education? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785261 238 Cy 2026-11-10T15:32:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7358&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you for raising this issue. The first thing to say is that we do acknowledge that there are barriers at the moment, despite the fact that the previous Government did create statutory guidance setting out that branded school uniform, using logos and so on, shouldn't be a mandatory requirement for pupils. This still happens. I would remind everyone who is a school governor of the responsibilities that they have and that they should look at the statutory guidance and reflect that in their own policies. Also, I would like to give an assurance to the Member and to all Members here that this is a live discussion as we, on a cross-ministerial basis, support the Deputy First Minister in her work on leading on the new child poverty strategy. We are all, in every portfolio, determined to play our part. That includes Anna Brychan as the Cabinet Minister for education. I, as Cabinet Minister for Culture and Sport, want ensure that the barriers in terms of participation are central to that work too. That collaboration, in order to ensure that we do remove those barriers that exist, is a priority for this Government. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785264 239 En 2026-11-10T15:33:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7438&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12146 12146 Joe Martin https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12146 Martin, Joe Minister, can I have a statement from your Government on the demographic replacement of white British people taking place in the UK? Because the scale of change has been breathtaking. Mass immigration and differing birth rates mean that, in just 37 years' time, in 2063, we will be a minority in our own country. That change has already taken place in London, Birmingham, Leicester, Slough, Luton and Manchester, and I don't want it to happen here. Indeed, at every opportunity, the majority of the electorate have wanted less immigration so that their nation can be preserved. A nation is not an economic zone, it's not a hotel, and neither is it a charity. It's a family, which is capable of absorbing people of all races if done at a sensible rate, but not if it's replaced altogether. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785266 240 En 2026-11-10T15:34:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7483&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Can I ask the Dirprwy Lywydd for a ruling on whether that question and the comments made are in line with our Standing Orders and behaviours or accepted responsibility within the Senedd? We have a duty for every single member of our communities that we represent. I reject division and hate. We had a question earlier to the Prif Weinidog around antisemitism. We cannot differentiate between people of different religions, different sexuality, different skin colour. We are a Government for everyone here in Wales. We are supposed to be a Senedd for everyone here in Wales. I reject wholeheartedly the division that is spouted by those Members. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785267 241 En 2026-11-10T15:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7502&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785270 242 Cy 2026-11-10T15:35:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7535&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you, Trefnydd. I will consider your request and get back to you as soon as possible. Zaynub Akbar.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785275 243 En 2026-11-10T15:35:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7544&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub Diolch. Can I request a Welsh Government statement on how CCTV monitoring arrangements in city centres are impacting businesses and the public? It was raised with me directly last week that police officers have been withdrawn from the urban traffic control centre that is responsible for monitoring the CCTV in and around Cardiff, which is particularly concerning, with the potential rise now in burglaries, accidents and assaults late at night that might be missed because these cameras are no longer going to be manually moved to check the full length and breadth of our streets. And this can have a negative impact on businesses, and our public, from a safety perspective.  So, I'd like to know: how is the Welsh Government supporting businesses and the public amid these changes in Cardiff specifically, and what discussions has the Welsh Government had on restoring teams to monitor cameras 24/7 to ensure the safety of our businesses and the public? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785279 244 Cy 2026-11-10T15:36:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7599&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising that issue. You will be aware that decisions on local CCTV monitoring arrangements and using operational policing are issues for local authorities and policing partners, considering the needs and circumstances locally.  We do note that Cardiff Council, South Wales Police and the Cardiff business improvement district, FOR Cardiff, are developing new arrangements following changes to operational arrangements at the urban traffic management centre in Cardiff. I do understand that they've restated their commitment to have effective community safety arrangements in place across the city whilst developments are taking place. And I'm also aware that the local authority is in the process of training staff to monitor CCTV on busier days of the week.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785284 245 En 2026-11-10T15:37:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7651&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12190 12190 Francesca O'Brien https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12190 O'Brien, Francesca May I ask for an updated statement from the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning with regard to building safety remediation in the private sector specifically? Developers who have signed the Welsh Government's contract promised to start work on the buildings they are responsible for by the end of December, which is only seven weeks away. This Senedd has had no update on how many of those 160 buildings have started work, how many are finished, or which developers are falling behind.  Leaseholders also need answers on the new alarm grant scheme that the Government has brought forward, and which I do welcome. More than a month after it's opened, we don't know how much is in that fund, how many have applied for it, or how many, if any, have been paid. Will the Minister confirm that she will lay the remediation regulations before Christmas, and when will they come into force? Diolch.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785285 246 Cy 2026-11-10T15:38:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7703&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you. The Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning has raised those points that you've raised. I would encourage you to get in touch with her, and, of course, as the work progresses, updates will be provided to Members.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785286 247 Cy 2026-11-10T15:38:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7718&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry And finally, Trefnydd, Safa Elhassan.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785287 248 En 2026-11-10T15:38:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7721&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12189 12189 Safa Elhassan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12189 Elhassan, Safa Diolch. Monday's documentary on sodium valproate reminds us of the devastating and lifelong impact that exposure during pregnancy has on children and their families. 'The Hughes Report', published in February 2024, recommends financial redress for those that have been harmed by sodium valproate and the pelvic mesh. Yet, more than two years later, families are still waiting for a decision. During a House of Commons debate on 29 October, the UK Government confirmed that no decision has been made on financial redress and could not give a clear timescale. These families really deserve an answer, support, and certainty about their future.  Could the Trefnydd clarify what discussions the Welsh Government have had with UK Ministers regarding 'The Hughes Report', what progress has been made, and what further steps are being taken to ensure affected families in Wales are not left waiting without answers? Diolch.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785289 249 Cy 2026-11-10T15:39:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7779&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising an extremely important issue. I would like to update the Senedd that the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care, in partnership with health Ministers across the devolved nations, has written to the UK Government to call for a formal response to 'The Hughes Report'. The joint letter highlights the fact that those who were harmed, and their families, have been waiting far too long for answers from the UK Government. As you will know, it's only Westminster that can answer this question because the regulation of medicines, including sodium valproate, is a reserved matter to the UK Government and is not devolved to us here. But the Welsh Government does recognise the deep and long-term impact that contact with this has had on individuals and families, including those here in Wales. We acknowledge that there is a moral case for redress, and we are still willing to work constructively with the UK Government on any arrangements that could be developed in future for the whole of the UK. I would also like to assure Members that the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, which regulates medicines of this kind, has introduced significant safeguarding measures. The Cabinet Minister and his officials will continue to engage with the UK Government and appropriate colleagues to call for an urgent decision as to how the UK Government intends to respond to 'The Hughes Report'. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785258 250 Cy 2026-11-10T15:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7802&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785269 251 Cy 2026-11-10T15:41:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7869&l=en 261110-3 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you very much, Trefnydd. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785272 252 Cy 2026-11-10T15:41:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7871&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry We will move now to item 4, a statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality on the cost of living. Sioned Williams. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785277 253 Cy 2026-11-10T15:41:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=7881&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality Williams, Sioned Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. This is a Government committed to protecting the most vulnerable in our society and supporting them when they need it the most. As we head towards winter, we are acutely aware of the challenges that households are facing. The escalation of the middle east conflict in early 2026, on top of a prolonged period of cost-of-living pressures since the beginning of this decade, including the inflationary effects of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and subsequent energy market disruption, are creating unrelenting pressures and signs of a crisis that has never really gone away. The cost-of-living crisis shows no sign of easing. A crisis is often understood as something acute and temporary. But for too many households across Wales, that isn't true in terms of financial hardship. It has become a persistent reality, placing constant pressure on family budgets, and leaving thousands struggling to make ends meet. Poverty, including fuel poverty, food poverty, or the inability to secure and sustain a decent standard of living, is not inevitable—we need to remember that. It is the result of political choices and decisions made both in the UK and internationally. Whilst major economic levers still sit with Westminster, the tools at the Welsh Government's disposal to take radical action on the cost of living are limited. However, I am determined that that won't be a barrier to our efforts to do what we can for the people of Wales. The economic outlook remains highly uncertain. The Bank of England warned only last week that inflation is expected to rise to around 5 per cent by the middle of next year. In general, it is widely expected that the typical annual household energy bill could rise by at least 16 per cent from January, if not significantly more. In terms of the autumn statement by the UK Government last month, well that wasn't a budget that was delivering for Wales. In fact, it has made our financial outlook even more challenging. Prior to the UK budget in October, we called for three clear asks from the UK Government to address the rising pressures on low-income households: removing the benefit cap; increasing local housing allowance rates; and introducing social tariffs for energy bills. As oil and gas companies continue to make record-breaking profits, it is obscene that our most vulnerable households continue to struggle with heating and energy costs. Wales's voice is not alone in this regard; the Scottish Government agrees with our calls on benefits, housing support and energy bills, to provide long-term relief to households in need. Supporting families with the cost of living is a key priority in our programme for government. We are providing a range of support to help households manage cost-of-living pressures, to support those in financial crisis, and to reduce essential household costs. This includes our investment in advice services, the discretionary assistance fund, the Nest scheme, free school meals, childcare support, the council rax reduction scheme, free prescriptions and discounted transport schemes. This Government will focus on prevention as well as direct assistance, supporting families to take proactive steps to avoid crises and develop pathways out of poverty. The Cabinet has been considering how we can best support households through this difficult period, including vulnerable and disabled families, and what additional support might be needed. Now that the UK Government has responded positively to some of the Welsh Government’s calls to provide the funding to make this possible, I am pleased that the Cabinet Minister for Finance has announced that we will be making a £100 cost-of-living payment to all households in council tax bands A to D. However, Dirprwy Lywydd, we believe we need to go further to support the households hardest hit by the cost of living in Wales. And so, we will act on this. In addition to the support to all households in council tax bands A to D, I can confirm that we will be extending this support to all recipients of the council tax reduction scheme, irrespective of their council tax band. In all, this will provide much-needed support to over a million households in Wales, or nearly three quarters of all households, at a cost of over £100 million. Recognising that some households experiencing financial hardship may not be captured by council tax records, or the council tax reduction scheme eligibility criteria, we will provide an additional discretionary fund of £8 million to be administered by local councils to extend the £100 payment to more households. We are designing this element at the moment, and full guidance for local councils will be available soon. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785274 254 Cy 2026-11-10T15:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=8102&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785278 255 En 2026-11-10T15:47:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=8237&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Many households living in rural areas depend on heating oil or liquefied petroleum gas as their only source of heating. The prices for these fuels surged immediately after the conflict in the middle east started and have remained high and volatile ever since. As we move into winter, with ongoing uncertainty over the conflict and its impact on global prices, the Welsh Government is stepping in to provide targeted support to help low-income households purchase these fuels. We have therefore allocated £5 million to provide targeted help towards off-grid fuel costs. A £250 payment will be made available to households eligible for council tax reduction based on their incomes and who are dependent on either heating oil or LPG. This is another example that this Government will always be on the side of people in all parts of Wales. We will be working with local authorities to deliver this payment, and further details will be published on each local authority’s website. The longer term preventative solution to lower household bills, however, is to reduce dependence on imported fossil fuels. Our Nest scheme is supporting low-income households living in cold, damp homes, saving an average of over £590 per year. Our longer term commitment to the Nest scheme and our expansion into area-based schemes will support people across Wales to insulate themselves against future price shocks. Dirprwy Lywydd, we are all aware that rising fuel costs are having an impact on all types of transport. However, we know that the bus industry in particular has been impacted by the high cost of diesel. Whilst this is a problem for all bus operators, it is having the biggest impact on SMEs, community transport and learner travel provision. This is why, using the architecture of an existing bus grant scheme, we are making £7 million available to support bus operators with their high fuel costs. Officials are working at pace to develop the scheme in partnership with local authorities. We appreciate that cash flow is a problem for many operators, so we will work to get funding out as soon as possible. This will help to avoid the loss of local bus services, which are relied upon by so many people, including households who do not own cars and learners travelling to school or college. While direct cash support to those households and services who need it is a key part of this package, so too is supporting people on low incomes to access the financial support to which they are entitled. We will, therefore, be expanding our 'Claim what’s yours' campaign so it can reach more people, sitting alongside an expansion of capacity in Advicelink Cymru to meet the increased demand for advice services. The most recent 'Claim what's yours' campaign helped drive significant financial gains for people across Wales, with more than £1.4 million directly attributable to campaign activity. It’s vital that people know what they are entitled to and that they are helped to claim it. We will ensure that support organisations are given the full information they need on the measures announced today to encourage and assist eligible households to apply. In total, this package represents an additional investment of £130 million, providing immediate relief for households this winter.  Dirprwy Lywydd, as I said at the start, we recognise that the cost of living is a challenge for all households across Wales. The measures I am announcing today will provide immediate assistance to those most affected, whilst ensuring that support reaches a broad range of low and middle-income households, while also supporting vulnerable households with high energy costs—help that will make a tangible difference to household budgets. Taken together, this package represents a significant investment in Welsh communities and reflects our determination to stand alongside households in challenging times. I’m extremely grateful to local authorities as front-line service providers for their continued support in delivering these vital measures. We will continue to work closely with them on the detailed delivery arrangements. Our message is clear: this is a Government helping people with the pressures they face today. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785276 256 En 2026-11-10T15:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=8402&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785280 257 En 2026-11-10T15:52:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=8522&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Before this Government congratulates itself on another £130 million announcement, let us establish the financial reality first. Britain's national debt has passed £3 trillion. We are forecast to spend £124 billion this year simply servicing that debt—not reducing it, not paying it off, just servicing it. That is more than four times the Welsh Government's annual budget, the equivalent of £370 per household every month in debt interest alone. Against that backdrop, this Government celebrates a one-off £100 energy payment for council tax bands A to D, extended to those receiving council tax reduction regardless of band. For a pensioner struggling to heat their home, £100 matters. But temporary relief is not economic competence and announcing expenditure is not evidence of achievement. Minister, your statement also contains revealing admissions. You acknowledge persistent financial hardship, warning of inflation reaching 5 per cent and energy bills potentially rising by 16 per cent, yet your answer is another temporary package. You describe a structural problem and offer a short-term cheque, and who is paying for it? Your statement acknowledges that Westminster provided the funding making these payments possible, so how much of this £130 million comes from Westminster? What additional Welsh Government resources have you committed and what spending have you reprioritised? Because passing on taxpayers' money is not the same as creating wealth. Now the figures: over £100 million for household payments, £8 million for discretionary assistance, £5 million for off-grid heating and £7 million for bus operators, yet no fully itemised reconciliation of the £130 million, including expanding advice services, and the £8 million discretionary scheme is still being designed. So, the money is announced and the publicity is out, but the delivery rules are still being written. Then, the £200 payment for households using heating oil and LPG—welcome for those who qualify, but what about working households just above the council tax reduction threshold facing the same soaring bills? Financial hardship does not stop at the benefit eligibility threshold. The Nest scheme reportedly saves households an average of £590 annually. How many benefit and how many remain in cold, poorly insulated homes? The Minister cites £1.4 million in gains from the ‘Claim what's yours’ campaign, but what did it cost, what was the return on the investment and what will its expansion deliver? And £7 million for bus operators—another scheme still being developed. When will the money arrive? How many routes will be protected—[Interruption.] You don't like the figures because, you know, they come—[Interruption.] What happens when funding runs out? Minister, these are spending commitments, so where are the measurable outcomes? The Deputy First Minister also reminds us of funded childcare, free schools meals and existing schemes, but let us not repackage old commitments as new solutions. Twelve point five hours of funded childcare for two-year-olds still leaves working parents facing substantial costs. Where is the assessment of affordability and workforce capacity? How many parents can increase their working hours? A policy announcement is not a childcare place, and a childcare place is not affordable childcare. But there is one glaring omission. Where are the savings? Where is the review of quangos, consultancy costs and bloated corporate bureaucracy? Not front-line workers, Minister, but expensive management layers whose value to public services remains questionable. Every pound wasted on unnecessary bureaucracy is a pound denied to those who need it. Whilst families struggle with heating bills, why is this Government not reviewing international spending commitments and testing whether every programme remains justified? [Interruption.] Oh, yes. A Government telling families to tighten their belts should examine its own spending first. There is a fundamental difference between managing poverty and reducing it. One produces endless schemes and publicity. The other tackles high costs, weak growth, barriers to work and wasteful spending. People need lasting solutions, not another £100 handout. They want wages that stretch further, affordable bills, and childcare that makes employment worthwhile. So, Minister, three questions. Where is your costed plan to end dependency on energy handouts? How much waste will you cut from your own administration, and by when? And how many Welsh families will this £130 million actually lift out of hardship? Minister, £130 million is what you intend to spend, not what you intend to achieve. Wales needs a Government that cuts the cost of living, not one that keeps adding to it. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785268 258 En 2026-11-10T15:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=8702&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785283 259 En 2026-11-10T15:57:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=8840&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I find it quite breathtaking that Reform are not supporting measures to help the vast majority of households in Wales facing high energy bills—and we know they're going to get higher in January—and a tough winter. I find it breathtaking. If you're talking about needing more money, perhaps you could ask the UK Government to tax some of the hedge fund managers that bankroll Reform. Perhaps they could pay their fair share to help the poorest in this country. That would be very welcome. I look forward to seeing that letter written to Nigel from you. You asked me a specific question—there was, I think, one specific question—on the payments. Of course, that money has come through from the UK Government in the normal way. It's how devolution works. We had already planned, we knew we wanted to make cost-of-living interventions. We'd already started making those plans back in May, and then wanted to see what funding was available. Obviously, through our own budgets, we knew what was going to be available. It was welcome that the UK Government did listen to our calls, although not all of them. As I say, many of those longer solutions that you talk about I absolutely agree with. You'll have heard in my statement that I called for social tariffs. That can make the most difference to vulnerable households, so they're not paying a disproportionate amount of their income on fuel, and therefore are in fuel poverty. We have one in four households in Wales in fuel poverty. I think that's absolutely unacceptable. We can do what we can under our powers to try and alleviate that, and that's what we're doing with these cost-of-living payments. But I agree and have called on the UK Government to go beyond those temporary solutions in order that we can have a sustainable way to tackle fuel poverty. On bus transport, you'll have heard the Deputy Minister for Transport say that that's why we're using an existing way of distributing this money, an existing architecture, the bus services support grant. That will help us to get this money out of the door as quickly as possible, rather than taking more time to design a new architecture to get that out of the door. I understand that the Deputy Minister for Transport has met with bus operators today, and they've said that they warmly welcome this very much needed assistance. Without that temporary assistance, there is that risk that operators could hand back school contracts. They could reduce or withdraw bus services, and we know that that will impact on many of our learners, but also on some of the most vulnerable people in society who depend on buses. Again, I was rather confused, because, first of all, you seemed to be saying that we shouldn't be spending this money, and then you were calling for more. And then we heard earlier—it's a constant refrain from the Reform benches—that we shouldn't have any more devolution. Well, do you know what we could do if we did have further devolution? We could take longer term measures, for instance through welfare payments designed to support the particular needs that we have—the people in Wales here. We don't currently have those powers. We could do more. We want to take action on child poverty, using a scheme such as Cynnal, the direct child payment that we have seen in Scotland. If we had those powers, then we could do it. That has been proven in Scotland to be a sustained way, a sustainable way of bringing down child poverty. So, I do regret that Reform don't support these very important measures that have been welcomed by the bus industry, and I'm sure will be welcomed by households up and down Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785306 260 En 2026-11-10T16:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9002&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785311 261 En 2026-11-10T16:01:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9083&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav Can I just thank the Minister for her really important and timely statement? We know that the cost-of-living crisis genuinely is the most pressing issue for families across the whole of Wales. So, with temperatures dropping and prices rising, as you say, the confirmation of a £100 energy payment genuinely is welcome news, as is actually the support for buses as well—buses that so many public sector workers in Wales particularly rely on. As elected representatives, we all have a responsibility to ensure that the Government provides a proper safety net so that people can afford to heat their homes, that they can afford to travel, as you say, and to make sure that people know what support they're actually entitled to, especially at the moment in relation to the international global turbulence affecting gas prices, and especially over the winter period. And that is why, in difficult circumstances, the UK Government's autumn budget then focused on giving people some precious breathing space for today and hope for tomorrow. And that second step is actually absolutely crucial, because we also, then, of course, need to have an eye on the future, and as the Senedd, we must be thinking not just, of course, about temporary measures, but about improving people's lives in the longer term, which is, again, something that we can agree on, so that, really, the next generation of Senedd Members don't have to be in a situation like this again, talking about emergency interventions to help people with the cost of living. And that means making the right decisions now for a better, brighter future.  Hope for tomorrow means investing, of course, also in infrastructure, creating clean, home-grown energy, good, well-paid jobs, like the nuclear power station at Wylfa, which will supply enough electricity to power the equivalent of 3 million homes and provide 8,000 jobs, including 3,000 in the local area, and like Port Talbot, a town that powered the twentieth century and will now help to power the future as the first dedicated hub for floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea, delivering clean, home-grown power, breaking that link between people's energy bills here in Wales and spikes in volatile international market based on what's happening overseas. Like Wylfa, these investments around Port Talbot will create thousands of good, well-paid and skilled and sustainable jobs, and this is really an important point that I would like to see recognised by this Welsh Government. Look, I've always been somebody that has agreed that the best way to help people with the cost of living is to help them get into good, highly well-paid, fair-work jobs, and these opportunities must be equal for men and women, young and old, in towns, cities and coastal communities all over Wales. But we must also, of course, recognise the pressures facing families right now heading into this winter, and that's why we welcome the UK Labour Government facilitating that £100 energy payment to households in council tax bands A to D, and it is right, definitely, that this funding was passed on to the Welsh Government to make decisions that are best for Wales. And we welcome the announcement, of course, of similar support from the Welsh Government to pass on the £100 payment to households in Wales with changes to complement the cost-of-living measures already in place. This is, after all, a continuation of that Welsh way of working. I'd like to ask about the Government's plan to encourage the take-up of the cost-of-living support, which you mentioned through the 'Claim what's yours' campaign. We know that every year in Wales more than £1 billion-worth of welfare support goes unclaimed, more than £1 billion-worth of help with the cost of living that doesn't end up reaching people who really need that support. So, for example, many households reliant on heating oil and liquefied petroleum gas—they haven't yet claimed that £200 that was originally announced by UK Government back in March. That is being administered through Welsh Government to local authorities now—you've said that that will be £250 in Wales. And there are barriers in terms of awareness and accessing support, which make things more difficult. I very much welcome the additional funds that are going to be going to Advicelink Cymru, which should make sure that there is sufficient capacity in place to deal with the additional demand that will come, of course, from proposed Welsh Government publicity campaigns. And I know that this Government will want to be transparent about setting their goals and showing their progress. So, could the Minister tell us how much money is going to be spent on the 'Claim what's yours' campaign? How much on additional capacity for the Advicelink Cymru? How will the Government, of course, measure their success or shortcomings in terms of supporting people with the cost of living this winter? And how many people will be eligible for and benefit from the £100 energy payment, and also the help with off-grid fuel costs? How will the Government measure their success in ultimately tackling poverty beyond this winter over the course of this Senedd term? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785281 262 En 2026-11-10T16:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9302&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785282 263 En 2026-11-10T16:06:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9366&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Diolch yn fawr, and thank you for your welcome for this statement. As I said in my statement, it saddens me that we are still—. It's no longer a crisis, it's normality, isn't it? It started with the Tories' austerity impacting the income that people had, taking support away, starving local authorities of the means that they need to support their communities, and we've seen that continue. And, you know, I'm reflecting on the fact that, of course, we'll be having a remembrance debate later today and Armistice Day tomorrow, and one of the effects of war, as we've seen with the Ukraine crisis and now again with Iran, is that it's the poorest people who usually suffer. And this is obviously a different aspect of how people suffer as a result of war, but conflict is never good for anybody, is it? And we know that the inflation and the spikes in energy prices are direct consequences of Putin's illegal aggression against Ukraine and, obviously, Trump's actions in Iran. We should bear that in mind, I think, when we're talking about this as a crisis. This isn't inevitable. As regards the 'Claim what's yours' campaign, you'll have heard many of our Ministers talk time and time again about making sure that we try to take a preventative approach. We don't want people to be in a situation where they are having to struggle and are worrying about that Bill and having to make those impossible choices between heating and eating. So, we are very much focused on that, and I'm very glad that we are putting part of this package into the 'Claim what's yours' campaign. The campaign itself will be getting an extra £150,000 on top of what was already allocated to make sure we can expand it. We usually do it for two weeks during January. This is now going to be able to expand that by another two months. So, it will enable us to purchase all kinds of media: radio and tv advertising, digital advertising, social media, also press and outdoor advertising, because we know that not everybody's on social media either. So, there's a range there covered. And there is an additional—. Not through this funding, but through my own portfolio, there will be additional money going into support to increase the capacity of those support services. Advicelink Cymru, as you know, can give people a full benefits check, because again, as you mentioned, we know that there are millions upon millions of pounds not being claimed, but also to help—and I think that's really important too—with completing benefit application forms, which we know can be a challenge for many vulnerable people. And also they can challenge unfavourable decisions, and I've no doubt that Members across the Chamber have probably had casework around that. But also, then, they can give that wider advice on debt, on housing, on energy costs and on personal finance, which we know is a crucial part of the jigsaw. You also asked me about the way that we were going to be allocating support. As I said, the delivery mechanism is well established. Unfortunately, the Welsh Government have had to do this before. It isn't a direct correlation with what's happening in England. We have taken into consideration as a Cabinet the specific needs of Wales. That's why we believe that we needed to not just do what they were doing in England, and that isn't what we're doing, so we considered many, many options. But what we thought we needed to do—. We know we have a high proportion of people on off-grid fuel here, so we absolutely wanted to make sure that we could support those people who were feeling that direct impact, and still feeling it because of the volatility of the price of oil and LPG. What we will be doing is making sure that those who did apply during the summer will be able to immediately be recognised, and that payment will be going out to them. But, obviously, there were some people, perhaps, who didn't realise that they were eligible, and so we will be making sure that we are reaching out, through local authority and other advice partners, to make sure that they are able to apply. The other thing, obviously, that we're not doing the same as England, and even Scotland—. We are supporting, and I think it's crucial, the school transport provision through this money allocated to the bus industry, because it is one of the most at-risk and one of the most important elements, of course, of provision. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785288 264 En 2026-11-10T16:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9602&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785292 265 En 2026-11-10T16:11:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9662&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thank you, Deputy Minister, for today's statement and we, generally, welcome what's offered. I think it would be churlish for anybody not to welcome support. That doesn't mean to say we can be completely happy, but we have to welcome it. There is no doubt that families across Wales continue to face significant financial pressures. Whilst inflation may have reduced, the reality for many households remains extremely difficult, and especially across our rural communities. As you will be aware, many older people are living in homes that are expensive to heat. They've worked hard all of their lives and receive their pension, yet still find themselves worrying every winter about whether they can afford to keep the heating on. Many of these households face significantly higher energy costs than those connected to the mains gas network. I think, in my rural community, many old farmhouses with widows in—they're trapped. They can't get out of the place. They've got these huge council tax bills as well as huge heating bills, and they're trapped, and they need support. Your announcement of that £250 payment for some households reliant on heating oil or LPG is welcome, but given the scale of the fuel costs facing many off-grid households, what assessment has been made of whether this level of support is sufficient? And how many rural households does the Government expect to benefit? I think a key message here, because one-off moneys is often a sticking plaster, is about what elements of this package today will be recurring, be it the bus service or other levels of support. Because the people of Wales will want to know what difference today's announcement will make on their daily lives and on into the future. They are extremely worried, especially in rural communities. Now, I welcome the package of support, as I've said. The real test, however, is whether this support will make a meaningful difference for those families who continue to struggle with all of those things we've talked about and everyday bills. Deputy First Minister, you've stated over a million households are expected to benefit. What assessment has been made of the real-world impact, though, of this support on household finances, particularly given the expected increases of bills next year? And as we've already heard—and when you're fourth in a row speaking, we're covering many of the same ground—I'm concerned that a significant amount of people, who might fall through the cracks, might not access what they can access. And I heard what you said about increasing capacity and advice, and that is extremely welcome, because we need to help people see what they can have. Even if it's not all they want, they need to be able to see they can get it. So what level of uptake does the Welsh Government expect from the schemes announced today? And what contingency plans are in place should significant numbers of eligible households fail to access the support available? Obviously, we as Conservatives believe there is another way, a longer term answer to the cost-of-living crisis, and it should not be an ever greater reliance on Government schemes, but a stronger economy, lower taxes, higher wages and secure pensions. And that's why we as Conservatives have set out a clear plan to help families keep more of the money they earn. We would cut the basic rate of income tax, extend free childcare, back small businesses. These are real measures designed to put money back into household budgets and support the Welsh economy. I'm sure you agree, Deputy First Minister, that people we represent do not need another explanation of why life is more expensive. They just need a Welsh Government totally focused on helping them, and I hope this Government will stand by its commitment and that we will see recurring support for the years to come. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785290 266 En 2026-11-10T16:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9902&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785291 267 Cy 2026-11-10T16:15:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=9911&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I thank Peter for those questions, and thank you too for the welcome that you gave to these measures announced today. They will never go far enough, of course, I fully recognise that, and I made reference to that in my statement, of course. There are things beyond our powers, and beyond our budgets too, that have an impact on the cost-of-living crisis and the fact that people in Wales—far too many of them—don't have enough money to live comfortably. I think it is disgraceful—entirely disgraceful—that we are living in one of the richest nations in the world and that so many of our people, particularly people in Wales, where poverty rates are far too high, don't have enough to live on. In terms of the more general point you made on economic growth, of course this Government wants to secure economic growth and more well-paid jobs, and Shavanah Taj also made reference to that, but we must also bear in mind that that growth in our economy is not always equally spread. The UK has one of the greatest gaps between the richest and the poorest. We have seen millionaires and billionaires increase in number whilst we're seeing poverty rates increase. So, there is something that is fundamentally wrong. It's not as simple as saying that we need economic growth. Yes, of course we need that growth, but that has to be spread and felt equally across our communities. In terms of people falling through the cracks, as you mentioned, of course, what we have done here is to have one measure, one way of ensuring that we support very many people—that is, everyone who is in council tax A to D will receive £100, and then we have then targeted in terms of ensuring even more people who will feel the impacts of the cost-of-living crisis more deeply, so those people in the other bands that receive the council tax reduction scheme, so that, of course, reflects income, and the same is true of LPG. There is always more to be done in terms of ensuring that people are aware of what they can claim and that they are able to do that easily and simply, and that's why we've also invested in a campaign to ensure that people are more aware and are assisted to claim what they are owed. But we have also ensured that we have a discretionary fund that will help people who aren't captured by these other schemes. If they find themselves in crisis or in hardship, they will then be able to apply for that scheme. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785294 268 Cy 2026-11-10T16:18:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10106&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Good afternoon, Deputy First Minister. This statement is greatly welcomed.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785295 269 En 2026-11-10T16:18:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10112&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane I just really want to focus on two things. Firstly, on buses, really great to hear the information on that, and I'm really encouraged to hear that the £1 bus fare, which absolutely does help families across Wales, will continue as well. Secondly, in terms of the £250 for oil and LPG households, really encouraging given that a great number of homes, particularly in our constituency, given that it's so rural, are sitting outside of the energy price cap. The one concern I have, and I'm just really interested to hear your views, is that obviously the more longer term or sustainable solution is that our rural households can opt into the Nest scheme, which gives them that absolute bedrock in terms of sustainability. But Citizens Advice have found that rural households are less likely to have heard of the Nest scheme and that confusing eligibility puts many off applying. So, it's just looking for reassurance that you're going to be working with our rural local authorities to really promote the Nest scheme. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785296 270 Cy 2026-11-10T16:19:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10176&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much, Jane Dodds, and thank you for the welcome, particularly for some of the elements that we have in the package. In terms of the details in terms of buses and what's going to be happening, £7 million will be going towards the sector. Of course, we cannot cover all the costs relating to higher diesel costs, and it is a usual part of business that those who operate bus services take this into consideration, that diesel costs go up and down. But what we have seen is that these record-breaking costs that we've seen recently are not sustainable and place their businesses and, therefore, their services to our communities, at risk. So, that's why—. It's a temporary measure, what we're going to call BSSG Plus. It is a temporary funding solution to help, as I said, school transport, community transport services, and also to ensure that they can cope a little bit better with the fact that the costs have reached such a high level. So, this is short-term support because the situation is so urgent at the moment. Then, in terms of LPG, you asked me about what's going to happen to people who perhaps won't—. We expect about 20,000 people will be able to take advantage of this. There's always a way to go in ensuring that people know about this, but, as I said, there are ways of ensuring that they can get hold of support through the discretionary scheme that will be part of this. And then, finally, on Nest, I totally agree, and you know that I totally agree, as a fellow member of a previous committee that did not one, but two inquiries into this scheme, and I know that Siân Gwenllian, my Cabinet colleague, is working on this. We have already provided £5 million of investment in the current financial year for this in order to ensure that we respond to the increase in demand that there has been and will be for this scheme. So that will enable more households to benefit from the measures and the advice they need to ensure that they have warmer homes. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785293 271 Cy 2026-11-10T16:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10202&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785301 272 En 2026-11-10T16:22:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10343&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12143 12143 Niamh Salkeld https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12143 Salkeld, Niamh Thank you, Deputy First Minister, for your statement today, and the £130 million in extra support announced by this Plaid Cymru Government, which will make such a difference for the people that I represent in Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni and across the whole of Wales. Since the announcement, I've had text messages already from people who work in the poverty sector, who have said how thrilled they are at this announcement, which I think speaks volumes, really, on how important this is today. On fuel poverty specifically, I'd like to raise the issue that Jane Dodds actually mentioned last week on British Gas, who are resuming forced prepayment meter installations following Ofgem's decision to lift those restrictions. This decision is, of course, deeply concerning. There are many people who can't afford to top up their meters. When their credit runs out, they face the very real prospect of going without energy, with potentially serious consequences then for their health, their well-being and their dignity. So, I'd like to know, Deputy First Minister, how the Welsh Government is going to work with Ofgem and the UK Government and energy suppliers to protect those who can't afford their bills from the harm of these forced prepayment meter installations. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785307 273 Cy 2026-11-10T16:23:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10412&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you for the question. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785308 274 En 2026-11-10T16:23:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10414&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned It's a really important question and I know it's something we've discussed many times, haven't we, in this Chamber, especially when we had that prepayment meter scandal and the scandalous and unacceptable way that energy suppliers acted, which, again, thanks to the press—. And we recognise the importance of the press in bringing some of these issues to light. That's why it's so crucial that we have a good, strong press. We are clear, obviously, that vulnerable households must be protected, through those serious failings exposed through historical prepayment meter practices, and we're clear they should never be repeated. We are clear that no household should be forced onto a prepayment meter without robust checks—and that would include identifying, obviously, vulnerability, health conditions, disability, age-related conditions and risks and the presence of young children. So, on 7 October, I met with Ofgem and I raised the importance of strong consumer protections, particularly for households with prepayment meters who would be in that sort of situation. They have written to all suppliers, reminding them of their obligations to their customers, specifically in relation to prepayment meters and their responsibility to offer assistance to vulnerable customers. So, they're continuing to review whether the existing safeguards around prepayment meters are working effectively, or if further protections may be required. Officials from Welsh Government are in regular contact with Ofgem to monitor this, but, you know, I think—and as I've said in previous answers—ultimately, the best protection against energy debt and the threat of prepayment meter installation is tackling affordability, is tackling energy affordability. So, we continue to call on the UK Government to introduce a targeted social tariff and to press forward, in collaboration with Ofgem, on the long-awaited debt relief scheme. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785298 275 En 2026-11-10T16:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10502&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785304 276 En 2026-11-10T16:25:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10549&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 11971 11971 Llŷr Powell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=11971 Powell, Llyr Minister, yesterday, the Department for Work and Pensions issued statistics and we could see that not one Welsh constituency collects more money in income tax or national insurance than it takes out of welfare. The reason I'm stating that is it's concerning that, in this statement—. Yes, welcome things can be one-off for now, but what's the long-term plan, people want to know, for sustainable jobs? That's the best way to get out of what is a cost-of-living crisis. Many people in my constituency want those high-paying, high-skilled jobs right now, but, in a climate where tax is now at its highest level since the second world war, we haven't got an environment for it. So, I'd be grateful to know what long-term plans can come from today's announcement. Because the one-offs may suit for this winter, but what people are getting concerned about, as you said earlier, is this is becoming a long-term effect, and no Government right now is talking about what the long-term goal is to get more people off welfare and into work, which the people want, as well as Government. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785309 277 Cy 2026-11-10T16:26:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10620&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you. Well, clearly, as I said in my statement, most of the levers aren't available to us in the Welsh Government. [Interruption.] We can't do that in terms of the bands we have. If we increase taxes for the wealthiest, we have to increase them for the poorest too. We don't have the same powers as they do in Scotland to vary tax bands. We want those powers. We want those powers. I think that we could make a difference if we could do that. And, of course, the UK Government does have the powers to ensure that the billionaires and millionaires do pay more in tax, so that we have a fairer society, a more equal society, and a more just society. So, I think that is the long-term plan. Of course the economy plays a crucial part in this, and the Minister for the economy has been talking about the plans that we have in place in order to generate growth and productivity in Wales. Of course, we've talked a lot about skills too, ensuring that our children get the best start in life so that they can fulfil their potential and can access those jobs that will provide them with a good income. But, as I mentioned earlier, that isn't the only solution. We do have to ensure that that growth is felt equally across our communities. And I just wanted to finish by referring to the point that you made in terms of drawing that distinction between the support that people get through the welfare system and work: 37 per cent—I think I'm right; it's around that, I will check the figures—around 37 per cent of people who are on universal credit are also in work. So, we mustn't actually scaremonger about people who are in receipt of welfare; they are in receipt of that because their incomes aren't high enough. So, it's not as simple as to say you are either on benefits and you should cut the benefits bill, or you get everyone into work. It doesn't work like that. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785317 278 Cy 2026-11-10T16:29:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10747&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you. And finally, Deputy First Minister, Anna Nicholl. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785322 279 En 2026-11-10T16:29:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10752&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12178 12178 Anna Nicholl https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12178 Nicholl, Anna Diolch. So, I'd like to welcome this package to provide much-needed support for families dealing with the cost-of-living crisis, not least rising energy costs. Tens of thousands of households in my constituency are set to benefit from the £100 energy payments, and I'm pleased to see that this will not just apply to those in council tax bands A to D, but will also be extended to everyone who receives the council tax reduction scheme, irrespective of band. Communities in Ceredigion Penfro are particularly dependent on off-grid fuel. In Ceredigion, more than one in three homes uses oil-fired central heating, the highest proportion anywhere in England and Wales. This leaves rural families and communities especially vulnerable to rising costs of oil and LPG, but those are so often, unfortunately, overlooked by the UK Government. So, I particularly welcome the £5 million allocated towards off-grid heating, including the £250 payment for eligible households dependent on oil heating or LPG. This is welcome and will make a difference, but the rising costs facing households are greater still. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785299 280 En 2026-11-10T16:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10802&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785300 281 En 2026-11-10T16:30:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10828&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Sorry, can I ask for a question? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785302 282 En 2026-11-10T16:30:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10830&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12178 12178 Anna Nicholl https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12178 Nicholl, Anna Oh, sorry. Okay, sorry, I didn't see that. So, what other support will be out there for households to support them with the cost of energy and reducing energy use for long-term savings? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785305 283 Cy 2026-11-10T16:30:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10844&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for that question. Yes, that's the point, isn't it? We have in certain areas of Wales that highest percentage, as you mentioned, in Ceredigion, in terms of people who are reliant on oil or LPG and off-grid heating. So, that's why it was so important that we could take the funding available to us as a Government, and consider and tailor a package that would meet the needs of the people of Wales. That is devolution in action, isn't it? That is the role of this Government: to consider those needs and to respond to them. So, of course, ensuring support for people who are in that particular situation, and have just been trapped by what is happening to global energy markets, is so very important. So, £250 will be provided to all lower income households that qualify, as you mentioned, for the council tax reduction, and are dependent on these fuels. There will also be, as I said, a broader safety net for households facing hardship in terms of heating oil payments, and that will be available through the discretionary assistance fund. It will also be possible for people to access help with energy efficiency and measures that can assist that in terms of their homes through the Nest scheme. And then, as I mentioned, they will also be able to get the advice available to them through the broader advice systems, which can look at all aspects of their budgets. As I was saying, we know that problematic debt is becoming more of a problem in Wales, and that has a direct link to fuel poverty. So, of course, as we seek to provide immediate support for households over this winter, we are also focusing on more preventative measures, that are more long term, in order to ensure that people aren't left at the mercy of what happens internationally time and time again. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785316 284 Cy 2026-11-10T16:33:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10988&l=en 261110-4 4. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Cost of Living C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you very much, Deputy First Minister.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785321 285 Cy 2026-11-10T16:33:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=10990&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry We will move now to a statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: the National Commission for Wales. I call on the Cabinet Minister, Dafydd Trystan Davies. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785327 286 Cy 2026-11-10T16:33:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=11003&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you very much, Deputy Llywydd. Today, I am pleased to publish the terms of reference for the National Commission for Wales, taking forward this Government's clear mandate to support Wales's constitutional future through the establishment of a standing national commission. The way the United Kingdom is structured and governed is under strain, and debates about devolution, accountability and where decisions should be made are increasingly pressing and important. Responsible Government means ensuring Wales is ready to shape its own future, with the evidence, the advice and democratic space needed to make informed choices. This is not an abstract theoretical debate. It's about whether Wales has the right tools, powers and democratic arrangements to deliver better outcomes for our people. That preparation cannot be the work of Government alone. It requires a broad, open and constructive conversation across this Senedd and across Wales. That conversation needs to be shaped by the people of Wales, and that is why we need a national commission. The commission will be an independent, standing body, established to provide advice, evidence and analysis on Wales's constitutional future. It will operate in an advisory role and provide an enduring forum to support informed debate and discussion in the years ahead. There are four core functions in the terms of reference. First of all, the commission will advise on devolution priorities and the wider constitutional agenda, including areas where independent commissions have highlighted a clear case for further devolution, such as the Crown Estate, railways, justice and policing. It will monitor progress and provide evidence-based advice as constitutional developments continue in Wales and across the United Kingdom. Secondly, the commission will engage people across Wales in a national conversation about our constitutional future, creating opportunities for people to learn about the issues, consider different perspectives and contribute their views, building on previous commissions and groups.  Thirdly, the commission will strengthen the evidence base for future discussion and decision making, including through research on key political, economic and democratic questions that are relevant to our future. And fourth, the commission will help inform future constitutional reform by considering the three viable options identified by the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales: enhanced devolution, a federal United Kingdom, and independence. It will also consider the balance of responsibilities across different levels of government in Wales, including the scope to transfer further responsibilities to regional or local levels—an agenda that I'm sure others in this Senedd will welcome. In doing so, it will identify key questions, evidence gaps and areas where further work is required. It is also a pleasure to announce today the appointment of the commission's two co-chairs: Dame Menna Rawlings and Professor Emyr Lewis. I am delighted that they have agreed to lead this important work. Dame Menna Rawlings has enjoyed a distinguished career in British public service and diplomacy, including as His Majesty’s ambassador to France and British high commissioner to Australia. She offers a wealth of experience in government and international affairs, together with a wide-ranging perspective on constitutional and governance questions, shaped by her work in the UK and beyond. Professor Emyr Lewis is a distinguished academic and lawyer with deep expertise in constitutional law, devolution and the legal framework of Wales. He brings significant experience of Welsh public life, of advising and commenting on Welsh public law and civic debate, and will help to ensure that the commission's work is grounded in rigorous analysis and a strong analysis of Wales's constitutional context. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785297 287 Cy 2026-11-10T16:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=11102&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785323 288 En 2026-11-10T16:38:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=11320&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Together, Dame Menna and Professor Emyr Lewis bring the breadth of experience I want this commission to provide: leadership at the highest levels of international public life, alongside deep expertise in constitutional law, devolution and Wales's legal and civic context. Their leadership will help the commission command confidence as it begins its work, and over the coming weeks, we will move to appoint a wider membership to the commission. My ambition is for the commission to be a broad church, cross-party in spirit, constructive in tone, and rooted in a wide range of perspectives from across Welsh civic life. In developing the terms of reference, we have consulted other parties because I want the commission to command confidence across this Senedd as well as across Wales. I hope that colleagues in this Chamber will engage constructively to help ensure there is representation around the table. Constitutional debate is strongest when different voices and viewpoints are heard, including views that challenge and test ideas. This should be a national conversation, not a partisan one. The establishment of the commission builds on the important work that we have already undertaken in Wales. The Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales made a substantial contribution to understanding Wales's constitutional choices. We hold a great deal of gratitude to its co-chairs, commissioners and all those who contributed. The commission will build on those foundations rather than rerun previous discussions. At its heart lies a simple principle: the future constitutional development of our country should be shaped with people across Wales, not simply presented to them. And that's why debate matters. Wales's constitutional future is about the kind of country we want to build together, how decisions are made, where power resides and how our institutions reflect the aspirations of our communities. The commission's work will take place at an important moment. We've heard that the First Minister has had productive discussions with the Prime Minister of the UK in Glasgow recently, who also spoke positively about devolution. We now look forward to seeing that engagement translated into meaningful action. The purpose of constitutional reform must be to improve outcomes for people and communities, not simply to move powers from one institution to another. Decisions should sit at the level where they can be exercised most effectively, whether that's national, regional or local, recognising the distinct democratic roles and responsibilities of Welsh Government, the Senedd, local government, and supporting greater coherence between the tiers of Government. We also welcome growing co-operation between devolved Governments, including with our friends in Scotland, where our interests align. Our objective remains straightforward: we want Wales to have the powers and accountable constitutional arrangements it needs to deliver for our people and reflect the ambitions of the people of Wales. And today marks an important step in that journey. The publication of these terms of reference and the appointments of co-chairs mark the beginning of a new phase of work. I look forward to working with the commission, with civic society, with communities across Wales and with Members across this Senedd as that work progresses. Together, we have an opportunity to help shape a confident, democratic and ambitious future for our country. Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785303 289 En 2026-11-10T16:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=11402&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785315 290 En 2026-11-10T16:42:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=11562&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian I welcome the early publication of the papers; it shows respect to this Chamber. Thank you. We'll let the debate begin then, shall we? Cabinet Minister, your statement today on the National Commission for Wales is part of your Government's wider devolution agenda—I don't think you'd deny it—but I have some fundamental concerns, as you'd imagine. The terms of reference published today state that the new national commission will be built on the work of previous commissions. So, why do we need another commission? Wales really has substantial devolved powers. Before seeking more, surely the Welsh Government should demonstrate it's making effective use of what it already holds. And that case is yet to be made. Our NHS is under immense pressure, our schools face serious challenges and our economy needs urgent investment. These are the issues your Government should basically focus upon for the people of Wales. Yet, we have been presented with yet another constitutional exercise, with only vague details on the scope and a vast remit. Cabinet Minister, the terms of reference commit to researching key political and economic questions, but your Government has not told us how much this commission will cost. And where is the evidence that transferring these powers will give us a better outcome? Take the Crown Estate, for example—and we didn't need an expensive commission to work these figures out—its Welsh assets were valued at £290 million in 2025-26. Yet, its operating profit, excluding offshore wind option fees, was a mere £9.8 million. An expert group estimated an annual income of £20 million should the Crown Estate be devolved. You often mention Scotland, and it's often held up as an example, but Scotland is not Wales. Its marine area is 430 sq km bigger than ours. So, where is the financial case? What would Wales actually gain and what would it cost? I think these are fair questions. And who would carry the liabilities? Cabinet Minister, there are also a wider constitutional issues. The national commission's terms of reference include enhanced devolution, Wales in a federal United Kingdom and the dreaded 'i' word—independence—as a long-term viable constitutional option. Plaid Cymru's manifesto has already stated that a new commission would lay the foundations for a future White Paper on Welsh independence. However, polling in May this year, as I've mentioned before a few times, I think, indicated that 67 per cent of Welsh people opposed independence. So, I ask the Cabinet Minister: what assurances can you give that this new commission will not become a vehicle for advancing a political objective at the taxpayers' expense? How do its objectives align with the clearly expressed views of the Welsh people? There's also a question about the commission's independence. We are told that the commission will operate independently, yet it will be supported by a Welsh Government secretariat. Its members will initially serve three-year terms, with the possibility of future appointments, if agreed by Ministers. What safeguards will be put in place to ensure genuine independence rather than reflecting the appearance of independence? Then there's the question of cost. This is not a short, one-off review, is it? It is intended to be a standing commission able to commission research, engage the public and produce reports over several years. But what is the expected total cost, Minister, including the secretariat, external research and public engagement? What measurable benefits will justify such expenditure? Cabinet Minister, I'm not opposed to a sensible constitutional discussion, as you well know, but any proposal for more power must pass some basic tests: what issues are we trying to solve, what evidence shows that transferring powers will solve these issues, how will it be funded, and how will the people of Wales benefit. Without clear answers, Cabinet Minister, this commission risks becoming an exercise in constitutional debate, while the everyday concerns of constituents remain unresolved. The people of Wales want opportunity, easy access to healthcare, decent jobs and value for their taxes, and this is what your Government's attention should be drawn to, because Wales needs better government, not simply more government. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785314 291 En 2026-11-10T16:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=11702&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785324 292 En 2026-11-10T16:47:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=11824&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the opposition spokesperson for his reasoned comments. There are areas where we will agree, there are areas where we will disagree, and, as he says, let the debate begin. I’m clear that there are areas of public policy where the evidence is unambiguous and definitive that the lives of people in Wales will be improved by devolution—railways, for example. There’s a clear case, beyond any reasonable doubt, that if we make progress there, we can make progress for the people of Wales. You raised the issue of the Crown Estate. There are clearly issues to work through there, and that is why we have an expert group working through issues around the Crown Estate. There is great potential—there is great marine potential. The Member talks down the Welsh marine potential a little. I hope he wasn't doing that—I'm sure he wasn't. But there is enormous marine potential in renewable energy along the Welsh sea bed, which a Welsh Crown Estate could exploit and bring benefits to the people of Wales, and bring benefits in tackling some of our energy challenges. So, those are a couple of issues I should highlight there. The costs of the commission lie within the constitutional reform budget of the Welsh Government. I have not made the case, and there are no proposals, to increase that budget in the forthcoming year. I think that is appropriate, because there is work to be done, and important work to be done, on teasing some of these constitutional issues out. But, as I've said from this despatch box on numerous occasions, the priorities of our Government are the priorities of the people of Wales, which rest on childcare, on child poverty, on the economy, on schools and on the NHS, and they will continue to be so. The Member raises the question about independence. I was meeting the co-chairs earlier today, and I said that my view was that they would be accepted as unimpeachable. I think that is what we were seeking: two independent chairs who, whatever the Minister might say to them, would form their own views robustly and constructively, and would lead the commission in that way. I’ve also sought to engage with parties across this Chamber on securing members of the commission who could contribute from their perspectives, and I hope very much to be able to reflect all of those suggestions when the commission membership is produced. When I say that I want this to be a national conversation, not a partisan one, I am wholly sincere in that and I shall work with colleagues right across this Chamber to try and make that happen. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785312 293 En 2026-11-10T16:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12002&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785313 294 En 2026-11-10T16:50:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12007&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw I begin my remarks, not for the first time, by noting that this is another week and another commission being established. I say that going on to cautiously welcome the establishment of this commission. Nevertheless, having questioned the Minister earlier today about his Government's willingness to seize the nettle, I am struck that these terms of reference run to a page and a half, scarcely 400 words. I do wonder whether we needed six months to have got to this state, Minister. But there we are, that's a matter of pace. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785318 295 Cy 2026-11-10T16:50:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12047&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw The question for most of us, I think, would be whether this commission will focus on practical improvements to governance and accountability that improve the way in which public services are provided, or is it just another step on a far longer constitutional journey. Although we can disagree on that journey, and certainly disagree on the destination that the Minister and his party would want to see Wales reach, I do hope that there would be agreement across this Chamber that the way in which Wales is governed is important. Strong organisations, strong accountability and decisions made as close as possible to the people impacted by those decisions should be objectives that we can all support. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785330 296 En 2026-11-10T16:51:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12104&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw Given those potential disagreements about the work of this commission, I agree with the colleague opposite that the independence of this commission is paramount. I am worried that it is a Welsh Government secretariat that will be provided. So, could the Minister confirm that the commission and its members will engage with and be accessible to Members of all parties in this Chamber rather than just the Minister? I would like some more details, if I may, on the funding point that has already been raised. There will inevitably be differing views about Wales's longer term constitutional future, but I think we would accept that there is greater scope for agreement on simpler principles, for example the one recently articulated by the justice Secretary Alex Norris, ensuring that the right powers sit at the right level. Ultimately, I think that should be the test—not whether power has simply been transferred from one institution to another, but whether the right powers are exercised at the right level in a way that improves outcomes for communities and strengthens democratic accountability. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785333 297 Cy 2026-11-10T16:52:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12180&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw I was pleased to see this reflected in the remit. Specifically, I welcome the commitment to consider the balance of responsibilities across various levels of government in Wales and the possibility of transferring further responsibilities to regional and local levels. I think this was a missed opportunity by the previous commission. I welcome the conversation that I had with the Minister, where I had the opportunity to make that point, and it is reflected in the remit. That is an important recognition that constitutional reform doesn't only relate to the relationship between Cardiff Bay and Westminster, but also to where power lies within Wales itself. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785336 298 En 2026-11-10T16:53:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12223&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw For communities across Wales, the challenge is not just where decisions are made, it's whether they have meaningful influence over the decisions that affect their towns, valleys, cities and regions. That is why Welsh Labour have argued for a deeper conversation about the next phase of devolution. And no, let me be clear, this is not something that we've only just started talking about recently. Welsh Labour in Government put an emphasis on regional working through the establishment of the corporate joint committees, regional partnership boards and other collaborative structures. We've also seen growing recognition that different parts of Wales face different opportunities and different challenges, not least with accelerating devolution within England. The next phase of reform should therefore be about pushing power closer to communities and ensuring decision making better reflects local needs. That's why, as I said, I welcome the inclusion of exploring regional and local devolution in the commission's remit. I would welcome the Minister's view on how the commission intends to approach this work. Will it consider whether communities have sufficient influence over economic development, transport, planning and public service delivery? How will it assess whether existing regional structures are delivering the accountability and outcomes that people expect? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785320 299 En 2026-11-10T16:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12302&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785332 300 Cy 2026-11-10T16:55:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12305&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw How will the commission consult with local government, regional bodies and community organisations in order to ensure that this conversation isn't one that just involves constitutional experts and the usual suspects? And finally, if I may, Dirprwy Lywydd, 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785334 301 En 2026-11-10T16:55:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12323&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw given that Plaid Cymru stated during the election campaign that independence is off the table in this Senedd term, can he clarify whether that remains the position of this Welsh Government? If the work is grounded in practical questions, then I believe this commission can make a worthwhile contribution to our national debate, and I look forward to engaging with it further. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785335 302 Cy 2026-11-10T16:55:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12345&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you very much to the spokesperson for those comments. There are quite a lot of areas of agreement there, and I do welcome the comments that were made. I made a note of the comments made by the Lord Chancellor— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785337 303 En 2026-11-10T16:55:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12361&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd that the right powers sit at the right level to deliver better outcomes to people. I wholeheartedly agree, and that is what our Prif Weinidog has set out, if you were at Cardiff University listening to the Prif Weinidog set out our vision for devolution to Wales and decentralisation within Wales. It's very much in line with our thinking. I'm not sure whether the lights were playing tricks on me, but I could see the co-chairs of the commission in the gallery nodding vigorously at the suggestion that they would engage with Members across the Senedd. That is what I would expect them to do, and that is precisely how an independent commission should operate. I can offer some reassurance there. There is a long-standing practice within the Welsh Government of appointing civil servants who act as a secretariat to commissions. The Burns commission, as you'll be aware, was one of them, where there is a degree of independence to those civil servants, and I think that is important. The test of this commission will be in its practical implementation and developing that evidence base for the steps forward. I've repeated it before, I shall repeat again: there will be no independence referendum in this Senedd term. That was what was in the Plaid Cymru manifesto, and that remains our position. Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785341 304 En 2026-11-10T16:57:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12447&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Thank you, Minister, for advance sight of your statement today. I have a sense of déjà vu, of course, because ever since devolution began, we've become accustomed to the sort of constitutional merry-go-round, which always follows a predictable pattern. First, the Government celebrates winning an election or gaining some new powers, Ministers then go on to say they finally have their hands on all of the levers to deliver the better Wales that they promised, the promised land then is just around the corner—we never quite get there—and then within a few months or even a few years, things don't improve. In fact, sometimes they get a bit worse. And suddenly the Government announces that it doesn't have enough powers after all. If only Westminster would give it a few more, then everything would be different and life would be so much rosier. And so begins the next stage. The Government announces a commission, an independent review, an expert panel, an advisory group, a taskforce, a convention. We've seen them all before, haven't we? The Richard commission, the Holtham commission, the Silk commission, the Thomas commission, the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales, costing taxpayers millions of pounds that could and should have been invested in our public services instead. And now, of course, we're told we need another one. The usual people are assembled, obviously. We've got some very decent people that you've appointed as chairs, and I wish them all the best with their work. But they will be added to, of course, by politicians, university professors, quango chiefs, whoever else you might select from the usual suspects in the gallery, as it were. There might even be a professional businessperson or two that's pro Senedd, pro devolution and pro independence. There could even be a lone Conservative voice on these things. The distinguished collection that you will assemble of the great and the good will then set off across Wales. They'll be solemnly asking people—with very open minds, of course—whether the Senedd should have more powers. Now, Dirprwy Lywydd, I don't know about you, and I don't know about any other MSs, but anyone who's spent any time canvassing on doorsteps across Wales will know that the last thing that most normal people in Wales would want to do is to willingly give up an evening to attend a constitutional workshop—[Interruption.] You, obviously, excluded. [Laughter.] But there will be no shortage of politicians, academics and enthusiastic Welsh nationalists delighted to spend an evening agreeing with everybody else that attends that meeting that the Senedd should absolutely have more powers. And then, after years of these meetings and these workshops, these consultations and all of the expense that goes along with it, the whole of the jamboree will come to an end, a lengthy report will be published. And I'm prepared to make a prediction today to everybody, and check this in the future when the report is finally published: I reckon that it will say that the Government should have more powers, that the Senedd needs more devolution. Right? I bet your bottom dollar that's what it will say, because that's what it's designed to say and designed to deliver, because it will be set up by people who want more powers—you; it will be set up by you—appointments will be made where there's a built-in majority of people who want more devolution and want more powers, and that is precisely what will happen. Now, we just had a commission. One and a half million pounds was spent by the previous Government, wasting money as though there was money to burn in the Government's coffers. One and a half million pounds. It's less than three years later. This was only published in January 2024, and we're doing it all over again. So, I think that what we ought to do is save our money and instead invest it in the people's priorities, fix the NHS—[Interruption.] Fix the NHS first, Minister. You want me to say it again? Why don't you fix the NHS and pull your finger out and fix the NHS? Why don't you fix our schools and raise those standards in our schools? You have the powers to be able to do that, but you're not doing it. You should use the powers you already have to effect the change that we need in Wales, instead of constantly being on a power grab for more and more and more, and passing all the excuses on that you constantly give. You've got responsibility for transport. You've got responsibility for the NHS. Build the M4. Upgrade the A55. Fix our hospitals. Give us more beds. Make sure that ambulances turn up on time. Make sure that kids leave school with the qualifications that they need in the modern Wales that we have today. That's what our country needs, not more wasteful commissions that will draw the same conclusion as everyone in the past. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785325 305 En 2026-11-10T17:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12602&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785328 306 En 2026-11-10T17:02:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12758&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Well, well, Dirprwy Lywydd, where does one begin? As a Member who's served in this Senedd for several years— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785338 307 En 2026-11-10T17:02:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12771&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Nineteen. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785339 308 En 2026-11-10T17:02:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12772&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Nineteen. Thank you. Thank you to the Member. I'd think you would have a better grasp of how this place has developed into a legislative Parliament supported by many people from all parties, including you, and because of that, this place has the power to legislate to improve people's lives in Wales. You will remember how this place was given power to vary taxes, which I'm not—. Maybe you could advise me. I think that was a Conservative UK Government that made progress on that, to give this place the power to make improvements to people's lives. Our ambition doesn't stop at what we have today. We are looking at further powers to improve further the lives of people in Wales, because we do not believe this is as good as it gets. Plaid Cymru has been completely consistent in that. There seemed to be some category error there in your comments that the Government did the same thing. We have been entirely consistent that we do not have the powers to improve our railways, that we do not have the powers to make best use of our marine resources, that we do not have the powers to support our young people to remain out of the justice system. These are things that we can have and these are things that, by developing the evidence base, we can make progress on. So, those are my ambitions for this commission. I repeat the comment I've made to others in this Chamber: it has to be a broad commission. I would very much hope that it is not the usual suspects. I would very much hope, heaven forfend, that there is more than one Conservative voice on the commission who can contribute their views, because when I say it is to be a national conversation, that is what I would like to see. And I think if we do that, led by our very able chairs, we can make further progress on empowering this place and improving people’s lives in Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785329 309 En 2026-11-10T17:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12902&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785331 310 En 2026-11-10T17:05:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12908&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 278 278 Carrie Harper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=278 Harper, Carrie I'd like to welcome the appointment of the new chairs, because this commission moves us from making the case for constitutional change to actually delivering it. Now, Reform want an example of why that's important, it seems the Tories do too, and the Cabinet Minister has already referenced rail. Well, the UK Government has endorsed £14 billion for Welsh rail, but when this Plaid Cymru Government requested £1 billion to advance that investment, what we got was £30 million. That's just 3 per cent of what we requested. Now, that £1 billion included Deeside parkway station in my constituency. Now, Deeside industrial estate is one of the largest in Europe. It employs almost 10,000 people. But we cannot deliver that station without that funding. And that's what fair funding means. It means new stations, it means better connections and it means better access to jobs as well. It's why we need full devolution of rail in Wales. It's why we need devolution of the Crown Estate, of policing, of justice. It's why we need fair fiscal powers, as other devolved Governments already enjoy, of course. So, can the Cabinet Minister ensure that this new commission secures both powers and funding to make sure that we can improve people's lives here in Cymru? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785344 311 En 2026-11-10T17:06:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=12985&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd The Member makes a series of very important points. I think it will fall to us, as a Government, to secure those powers from Westminster in the First Minister's discussions with the Prime Minister of the UK and in our ministerial team engaging with Ministers, particularly around issues of funding. I see the role of the commission as crucial in developing the evidence base and being very clear on offering us advice as to the mechanisms for doing it and how we make the best progress possible to deliver devolution in an efficient and effective manner. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785345 312 En 2026-11-10T17:07:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13025&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12170 12170 Iain McIntosh https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12170 McIntosh, Iain I think a lot of what I was going to say has already been asked, but, to be honest, I don't think we've had any answers, so I'm going to try again. Now, as has been mentioned, we've already had an independent commission examining Wales's constitutional future, including independence. And now you're setting up another commission, this time a permanent one, with two chairs and more appointments to follow. Yet, nowhere in your statement have you told us what it's actually going to cost taxpayers. Meanwhile, our NHS is under enormous pressure, councils are cutting services, families across Wales are struggling. So, why is creating another permanent commission a priority for your Government? So, can you please tell us what its annual running costs will be, what it will actually deliver that hasn't already been examined—that's the point, what's the point in going over old ground—and whether you'll commit to closing it if it fails to demonstrate value for money? Because, surely, Cabinet Minister, the people of Wales need better public services, not another permanent layer of taxpayer-funded bureaucracy. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785347 313 En 2026-11-10T17:08:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13101&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. I said, in answer to a previous question, that the constitutional reform budget of the Welsh Government was likely to be unchanged for the year ahead and, therefore, it was within the current budgetary envelope of the constitutional reform budget. I've said in a previous answer to this Senedd that the previous commission cost £1.5 million. That is the scale of money, within the constitutional reform budget, that we are looking to invest in making the positive changes that will deliver better public services in Wales, and I make no apology for doing that. What you've had, with a number of policy areas, and let's take the Crown Estate for one example—we have an expert group at the moment working through a number of the issues as to how you maintain investor confidence in the ability of Crown Estate Wales to deliver a stable investment environment so that we make the best of our marine resources. That is the kind of detailed, technocratic, if you like, important conversation that we need to have to make sure that, when we devolve powers, it is done right. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785351 314 Cy 2026-11-10T17:09:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13161&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you. And finally, Sera Evans. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785353 315 Cy 2026-11-10T17:09:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13176&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you for your statement today, Cabinet Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785356 316 En 2026-11-10T17:09:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13180&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera It's a very exciting statement too, and I for one was pleased to note the direct, clear and effectively succinct terms of reference. I think the thing to note from the outset is that the establishment of a national commission does not and should not represent the final word on Cymru's constitutional future. It should work to open up questions and strengthen the quality of the debate that will follow, a debate that is not only inevitable, but desirable. Unlike the Conservative Member here, we can't predict where that debate will lead us, but we can at least attempt to determine its tenor, which I hope is a considered one, and one that is rooted in materially improving the lives of the people of Wales. And if we want to resist, as I'm sure we do, the oversimplification that has characterised recent constitutional debates in the UK—take Brexit, for example—how will the Welsh Government ensure that the commission gives rise to a conversation where the people of Wales are encouraged to engage with the complexity of the constitutional questions and choices before Cymru? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785340 317 En 2026-11-10T17:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13202&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785404 318 En 2026-11-10T17:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13202&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785405 319 Cy 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales I The Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) took the Chair. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785342 320 Cy 2026-11-10T17:10:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13247&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785343 321 En 2026-11-10T17:10:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13248&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you to the Member for that question. I hope, in my response in this Senedd, I have sought to outline clearly, but reflecting the complexity of some of these issues, the kind of debate we need to have, and that is a cross-party debate for precisely the reasons you've set out. It is in either conversations with the co-chairs—that is my hope, and that is their hope—that they will work through those complexities with the people of Wales in a way that brings light to some of these debates rather than partisan rancour. And I think, if they succeed in that task, which I wish them well with, they will have made a major contribution to both public life and to the development of this Senedd. And I think, if they were to do that, then we should all be grateful to them for their service, and the broader commission, who will support them in their work. Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785346 322 Cy 2026-11-10T17:11:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13306&l=en 261110-5 5. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution: The National Commission for Wales C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you, Cabinet Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785349 323 Cy 2026-11-10T17:11:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13308&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We'll move now to item 6, the next item: a statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning—community right to buy scheme. I call on the Cabinet Minister, Siân Gwenllian. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785352 324 Cy 2026-11-10T17:12:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13324&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much, Llywydd. Last week, I visited the Ministry of Life in Splott, Cardiff, and saw, once again, the difference that community ownership can make. By bringing a local building into community ownership, the organisation has created a base from which it supports young people through music, the arts, skills and learning. In all parts of Wales, buildings, land and other assets can play an important part in community life. They can bring people together, support local activity and help sustain a community's identity. But when an asset comes onto the market, communities can find themselves competing with other buyers before they have had a realistic opportunity to explore whether they could purchase it for community benefit. We want to empower communities and give them that opportunity before a valued asset, and the community benefit it provides, is lost. Therefore, our programme for government commits us to legislate for a community right to buy as part of our wider ambition to build community wealth and make it easier for valued local assets to be brought into community ownership. Earlier today, I published a written statement launching our consultation on a community right-to-buy scheme for Wales. Where an asset provides real benefit to a community, we want local people to have a meaningful opportunity to secure that benefit for the future, if the owner decides to sell. Under our proposals, community groups could nominate assets based on the social, cultural or economic benefits that they provide to their community. Assets that provided community benefit in the past could also be eligible where there is a realistic prospect of bringing that benefit back. Communities change, and assets may need to change too. A different or mixed use could help secure an asset's future, provided it delivers community benefit. If a registered asset is put up for sale, the scheme would give an eligible community group a right of first refusal and a protected period in which to pursue a purchase. That would give the community time to consider what taking on the asset would involve, to develop its plans and secure the finance needed to proceed. It is important to note that registering an asset would not require an owner to sell. It is only when an owner decides to sell that that right would be triggered. What we are seeking is a fair balance—providing a genuine opportunity for communities to act, while ensuring the process is proportionate and fair to owners. Llywydd, we have looked carefully at approaches elsewhere in the UK, but we are not simply seeking to replicate them. We have an opportunity to develop an approach that works for Wales and its communities. I am grateful to all of those who have engaged with us so far and have helped to inform these initial proposals. We want that conversation to continue as we develop the legislation. There are important questions still to answer. We want to hear from communities, owners, local authorities, businesses and others on how the scheme should work in practice, and the consultation asks specific questions on those details. Our commitment to legislate is clear, but I am equally clear that legislation will not solve everything. A statutory right can create an opportunity, but it cannot, by itself, provide the capacity, finance, expertise or the confidence for a community to take that opportunity. So, we also want to understand what wider support may be needed by communities to make use of that right and sustain an asset successfully over the longer term. We particularly want to understand the needs of more fragile communities, including where the Welsh language, rurality or different levels of community capacity may create particular challenges. The community right-to-buy scheme will complement existing arrangements for community asset transfer and placemaking in Wales, which will continue to operate. When there is community ambition and a viable proposal, we want communities to have a meaningful opportunity to act. That means getting both the legislation and the wider support right, so that community ownership can provide a sustainable future for valued assets and lasting benefits for communities across Wales. I therefore encourage communities, asset owners, local authorities, businesses and anyone with an interest in community ownership to read the consultation launched today and tell us what they think. Our ambition is straightforward—to empower communities to shape the future of the places that matter to them, by developing a scheme that is fair, workable and right for Wales. I look forward to hearing the initial response of the Members in this Chamber this afternoon too. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785354 325 Cy 2026-11-10T17:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13502&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785358 326 En 2026-11-10T17:18:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13711&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 12190 12190 Francesca O'Brien https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12190 O'Brien, Francesca Thank you, Cabinet Minister, for your statement this afternoon. Pubs, shops and clubs close because of business rates, energy bills and regulations. Bring those costs down and more of them will stay open, in the hands of people willing to run them. We have to remember that owning a building doesn't protect its original purpose. A community group could buy a chapel tomorrow and do whatever it likes with it the next day. If we want to protect the character of our historic buildings, the right tools are listing and planning, which apply to whomever owns the building. That is why Reform would automatically grant listed status to all churches. As Zia Yusuf has said, we would end the practice of converting churches into mosques or any other place of worship. We should protect our heritage through clear rules. Nobody in this Chamber wants to see the last pub in the village boarded up or a chapel left to rot. As somebody who's worked with asset transfers in a previous role as a councillor, I know dedicated, local people who've done a better job of running community facilities than the local council did, so I'm a big champion of community assets. But wanting to keep something is not the same as having a right to it, and there are some practical issues I'd like to see you respond to. Because while it might sound good on paper, we need to be careful when deciding our community heritage. Let's start with the simplest point: a community group that wants to buy a building can already do so. It can make an offer, raise the funds and bid like anybody else can. So, this Bill only changes the outcome in one situation, where the community group would otherwise lose. Either the group can match what a willing buyer would pay, in which case it needs no special right; or it can't, in which case the right achieves nothing unless the taxpayer makes up the difference. This Bill is either unnecessary or is a subsidy scheme dressed up as a right. Second, this right is not free. A right of first refusal has real value. In every part of the economy, an option to buy is something people pay for. This Bill takes that option away from a property owner without their consent and without payment and hands it to a third party chosen by the state. That is a transfer of property, and we should call it what it is. Third, who is the community? A community is not a legal person, and it does not speak with one voice. In practice, the nominating group may be a handful of people with some time and confidence to fill out the forms. Even in Scotland, it requires a ballot of the wider community before its right can be used. Will this Bill include that, or will a small group be able to bind an owner on behalf of thousands of people who have never been asked? Fourth, incentives. Across rural Wales, farmers and landowners let communities use a field for a show or for the Young Farmers to use. If doing so now risks that land being listed, the rational thing for those owners is to lock the gates. We don't want to punish people who show community spirit in an informal manner. Now this Government wants to add first refusal on community assets. The implication is clear: you may keep your property only if you use it as the state wishes, and sell it only to the buyer the state prefers. Property held on those terms is not really a property at all. It's a licence. Will the Cabinet Minister rule out any further extensions of these powers over private property in this Senedd term? Scotland shows where this could end. Theirs began in 2003, with a right that applied only when a landowner chose to sell. It now has powers to force the sale of land where Ministers believe that would further sustainable development. Your own commission wanted a right covering the public, private and third sector, and you said this Bill will include land for housing. Your consultation document says that you won't force sales, so can you confirm the legislation will make this crystal clear? The Scottish Government is now reviewing their whole system because it's been seen to be too complex. If it has struggled there after more than 20 years, can the Minister outline what the key difference will be here in Wales? Community ownership is a good thing when it is chosen freely and organically by willing buyers and willing sellers. It stops being good when the state starts deciding who gets to buy. Diolch, Lywydd. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785350 327 En 2026-11-10T17:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=13802&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785360 328 Cy 2026-11-10T17:23:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14009&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much. I have to say that I am very disappointed by your response this afternoon. Empowering communities to own assets within their ability, within their own communities, is an excellent way of strengthening those communities. But once again we've heard Reform this afternoon trying to create division between religious groups, and the last thing we want is that. What we need to do is to create communities that are inclusive and where there is that community cohesion, where everyone feels that they belong. And that is what is at the heart of this consultation. Now, you've jumped to a number of conclusions. I don't quite understand where you've received your information. There is no Bill; that's the first thing to say. This is a consultation. There is no Bill—it's a consultation, an opportunity for us to discuss constructive issues as to the kind of Bill that we would like to see in the future. You've mentioned a missed opportunity and a situation where you could perhaps see where this could work, where a community wishes to retain an asset for community benefit in the longer term but misses out on that opportunity. You've recognised that that is a situation that legislation could respond to. That is one of the most common situtations facing community groups. It's what happens far too often. There is a community group, there is a community that identifies an asset that they would like to retain as an asset for that community for the future, and because of the nature of a community competing against other needs—business needs, and so on—the community itself misses out on that opportunity. What this legislation would do, if we do proceed with it, would be to give that first refusal to the community if an owner wished to sell. Now, if the owner wished to sell, a community group could register their desire to own that asset, and then would have a protected period of time in order to draw up a business case, and to get the funding together. That situation arises far too often—they don't get the same opportunities to take ownership of community assets, although that is the desire of the community group involved. So, I would encourage you to look at the consultation, to look at the questions being asked. You will see that it's very open indeed. There is an opportunity for you to participate in this, so I am disappointed by your initial response. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785357 329 Cy 2026-11-10T17:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14102&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785364 330 En 2026-11-10T17:26:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14218&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 5038 5038 Jayne Bryant https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5038 Bryant, Jayne Thank you, Minister, for the statement today. Protecting and enhancing community assets has long been a priority for Welsh Labour and for the Co-operative Party, of which I'm a longstanding member. And I'm also a proud society member and community shareholder at the Corn Exchange in Newport. So, I do welcome the statement from you today, Minister. Under Welsh Labour, the Welsh Labour Government's community facilities programme supported almost 500 projects across Wales since 2015, helping communities unlock the potential of local spaces through over £70 million of investment. We also established the Community Asset Commission, in partnership with Ystadau Cymru, to explore innovative models of local ownership and to improve systems of community asset transfer. The system we put in place works reasonably well when there is an agreement to transfer an asset, but owners are not always keen on the idea, and that's why the commission recommended that we legislate.  So, I was delighted to accept their recommendations as the Minister, and to secure a commitment in the Welsh Labour manifesto to create a community right to buy in law to empower people to keep their special local places for community use. It was good to see that Plaid Cymru made a similar commitment in their manifesto, but, as ever, implementation is key. So, the consultation announced this week is an important step forward, and I would encourage people to engage with this to ensure that a range of perspectives are represented. But I would like to know if the Minister can give us a firm timetable for bringing forward a Bill. It does seem, as you've suggested, that the consultation is on the regulations, and we had expected a draft Bill to be brought forward sooner rather than later. If the Government does decide to proceed with legislation, and as that would work through the Senedd, Welsh Labour Members will want to make sure that it does deliver what is needed, and matches up to the objective of empowering communities. So, a community right to buy should be based on a simple principle: when valued community assets are put up for sale, local people should have a genuine opportunity to keep them in their communities. The legislation must break down barriers in the way of local purchase. Even where there's a legal opportunity, there can be significant challenges. Communities need to have the first right of refusal when an asset comes up for sale. They need to be provided with enough time to organise, and they require resource support to raise the necessary capital. In England, the legislation will give community groups a first right of refusal to buy an asset of community value at a fair price set by an independent evaluator, and give them an extended 12-month period to secure funding. There will be Government backing of £61 million to complement new powers, ensuring that communities who have had historically low financial investment can access community ownership. So, will the Welsh Government continue to provide commensurate resource, as well as funding organisations such as Cwmpas, to help with the practicalities of putting together a business case? The Minister is right to say that there are important questions still to answer. These include whether the community right to buy includes a genuine first right of refusal, so communities have the first response when an asset goes up for sale. The Minister mentioned that she will look carefully at approaches elsewhere. So, will the Government adopt a broad definition of 'asset of community value', similar to England, so that communities and local councils can take a view on what matters to them, and for sports facilities to be included? We also want to know what time frame the community right to buy will provide for communities to organise and raise funds, and will this mirror the 12 months provided in England? And clarity will be needed on whether funding will be made available to support deprived communities in purchasing an asset, and enable groups to take on community ownership without the full financial burden. I'm interested to know whether the Minister will deliver on the commission's recommendations to draw up improved guidance for the transfer of assets from public bodies, because it's not so much the legal right that matters here, it's often the practical hurdles that need to be overcome. There are specific challenges for community energy and community housing projects, so it would be good to hear reassurance from the Minister that these will also be identified and addressed. And finally, will the Minister follow Scotland's example and introduce powers for a community to acquire derelict, neglected land or buildings, especially where the use or management of the land is causing harm directly or indirectly to the well-being of the local community? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785367 331 En 2026-11-10T17:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14402&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785369 332 Cy 2026-11-10T17:32:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14527&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much, and I thank you for your work in the previous Senedd on this issue. Where we've reached today, launching the consultation, builds on work that has been going on in the Senedd for many years. The Local Government and Housing Committee published a report on community assets in October 2022, and recommendation 15 in that report was that legislation was needed to establish a scheme to facilitate the right for a community to buy. And that work has led to a report by the task and finish group, by the community asset commission, and that came to the same conclusion, that we need to legislate in this area. So, where we've reached today, in terms of launching the consultation, builds on a body of evidence that is quite substantial: the work by the committee, the work of the community asset commission, work by the Welsh Affairs Institute, Cwmpas and so forth. There is significant work that attests to this need for the right to buy. In terms of the consultation, a number of the questions that you've asked are issues that we want consider and explore in detail through the consultation, and then in the work of bringing a Bill forward. I think, for example, that the question about a protected period of 12 months—. There is a question in the consultation as to whether it should be 12 months, or whether we need a longer or a shorter period. There are questions around what kinds of groups, what kinds of criteria are needed for community groups that would be able to register their wish to retain a building as part of a community. So, many of these questions have been included in the consultation. So, I still encourage people to take part in that. There is a period until the end of January to respond to that consultation, and then, as you know, the First Minister has published the legislative programme for this Senedd. This Bill is part of phase 1 of that legislative programme, and my intention is to introduce a Bill in the second half of next year, just for you to have some kind of idea of timescales. It's about time that we progress this work after all the work that's already been done on this issue and that we're building on to reach where we are today. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785359 333 Cy 2026-11-10T17:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14702&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785361 334 En 2026-11-10T17:35:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14740&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thank you, Cabinet Minister, for your statement today. The Conservatives recognise the importance of preserving the community assets that sit at the heart of our towns and villages across Wales, whether that's the local pub, the post office or other community facilities. These places often provide far more than the service that they provide themselves. In principle, we support efforts to give communities a greater opportunity to protect valued local assets when they are at risk of being lost. Today's statement suggests the scheme would provide a period of exclusivity or a right of first refusal, giving community groups time to develop a business case, secure finance and explore ownership opportunities. Many of these objectives are consistent with our long-standing support for community ownership. Of course, as you just pointed out, there are questions of what could constitute a community group, for instance. However, our support for community empowerment must be accompanied by practical safeguards and clear answers to several important questions. The Government must also clarify how assets will qualify for registration and ensure that the criteria are transparent and consistently applied. Asset ownership brings significant responsibilities. Any scheme must ensure that organisations have appropriate governance arrangements, accountability and the capacity to manage assets successfully over the longer term. Secondly, that protections will be available for property owners. It is vital that participation in the scheme does not undermine fundamental property rights. The statement suggests that owners would not be required to sell below market value and that independent valuation and appeal mechanisms are likely to form part of the framework. Those safeguards will be essential. Thirdly, what happens when circumstances change? If a community group dissolves, becomes inactive or can no longer manage an asset, there must be clear arrangements for stewardship, accountability and the future management of the property. Finally, the success of any community right to buy will depend on more than legislation alone. Communities will need to be able to access expertise, support and, in many cases, finance if they are to turn opportunities into successful, sustainable projects. The Government must therefore explain how it intends to support communities beyond simply creating the legal framework. We welcome the opportunity for communities, businesses, local authorities and asset owners to contribute to the consultation and help shape the detail of the scheme. We will consider the detail of any subsequent legislation on its merits, but our guiding principle will remain simple: empowering local people, protecting property rights, strengthening local economies and ensuring that our community ownership works. Minister, you rightly acknowledge that legislation alone will not be enough. Communities will need access to finance, to that expertise and to that practical support if they are to make use of these opportunities successfully. The potential is certainly there, but the proof will always be in the pudding. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785366 335 Cy 2026-11-10T17:39:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=14943&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much, and thank you for the welcome, perhaps it's not a 100 per cent welcome, but it's an initial welcome. I do appreciate that very much and appreciate some of the questions that you've posed. They are certainly questions that need to be aired thoroughly as we go through this consultation and analyse responses to the consultation. As it goes through the scrutiny process within this Senedd, I do hope that many of those questions will find clear and robust answers so that the pathway is clear to any legislation. In terms of asset owners, private owners, this isn't compulsory purchase, of course. In terms of the owner, it is the owner who will decide that they want to sell a shop, a cafe or a pub, or any asset that can benefit the community. We do have to clearly define what we will include within the definition of assets that may be available. So, if the owner doesn't want to sell, well, nothing will happen. The owner will decide, and then that owner would need an independent valuation according to market value. The owner wouldn't be required to sell with any kind of discount—that simply wouldn't be fair. The property would need to be sold at market value. There would also be an opportunity to review, appeal, or to provide compensation in order to protect owners and so on. So, we do need to put those safeguarding measures in place for owners—that would need to be part of any scheme. As you say, I do recognise that legislation is only part of the jigsaw. We need far more than just the creation of that right, but, for me, the right is the first step, and it will, hopefully, start conversations in our communities across the country, so that they think about their communities and think about which assets they would like to take responsibility for as a community. I agree entirely: that would need to be funded and there would need to be specialist support in order to develop that kind of community project. But I do think that getting the legislative framework in place is an important first step as part of that. In terms of the questions on funding and support, all of those are included within the consultation too, so we're not ignoring them. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785362 336 Cy 2026-11-10T17:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15002&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785376 337 Cy 2026-11-10T17:42:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15148&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We will now move to one-minute contributions.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785378 338 En 2026-11-10T17:42:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15152&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We have lots of speakers, so if I could have help from Members and from the Minister—short answers and short questions—that would help us to get through as many as we possibly can. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785407 339 Cy 2026-11-10T17:42:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15161&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw First, Elyn Stephens. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785380 340 Cy 2026-11-10T17:42:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15163&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn I welcome this statement very much and the ambition to bring more assets into community ownership. We have seen how successful such enterprises can be in parts of Wales where there is a strong tradition of community ownership. But, in constituencies such as Afan Ogwr Rhondda, where that tradition is not as strong and where communities have fewer financial resources, perhaps, how can we ensure that communities who have the greatest need won't be the least likely to benefit from this? What practical support will be available to nurture the ability, the expertise and the confidence that communities will need to take advantage of these new rights? Finally, will the Minister consider transitional mechanisms, perhaps through Unnos or another public body, which could buy assets temporarily while a community group raises the necessary funds? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785382 341 Cy 2026-11-10T17:43:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15217&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much. I agree with you that not every community will be starting from the same place. We do have very successful examples of community benefit organisations where communities have managed to come together, and very often that has relied on the fact that there was leadership within that community, the ability and the skills to bring people together, to create a business plan and then get the funding together and so on. So, access to funding, expertise and organisational skills, all of that will be limiting in some communities, and I accept that. That is why it isn't just a discussion about legislation that's in the consultation. The consultation provides us with an opportunity to look at the broader issues that you have raised quite clearly. There are funding sources available at the moment, such as the community facilities programme and the community asset loan fund. So, there are funds available. Of course, community groups can access a number of other funding sources, but, certainly, they need that expertise and that support behind them. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785363 342 Cy 2026-11-10T17:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15302&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785365 343 En 2026-11-10T17:45:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15306&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 12183 12183 Tom Montgomery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12183 Montomery, Tom Thank you, Minister, for the answers you've given us so far. I appreciate that this is a consultation, but I do feel like there are several key points where we require more information for people to be able to respond to the consultation in an informed way. I'm going to try and get to one that's concerning me, and I'm quite happy to be put right if my understanding is wrong. Let's just walk through the process now. Say a property owner owns a piece of land or an asset that is subject to the community right to buy, and it has been registered with the local authority. That effectively creates a restricted title on the property. That owner isn't able to sell it as freely as they could have. Say that owner doesn't want to sell the property, but wants to borrow capital from it, so they want to borrow based on the value of the asset that they own. My concern is that that owner may then be restricted or not able to borrow money at all, because a mortgage provider would be concerned about lending money on the back of an asset that has a restricted title. Is that something that you've considered? I would be interested to know your thoughts on that and how that might play out in the market. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785368 344 Cy 2026-11-10T17:46:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15377&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much. That is something that we are considering. Of course, the rights of owners and ensuring that those rights are protected is an important part of all of this. That's why I mentioned the open market process, the appeals process and that ability to have that discussion. But it's a matter of balance, isn't it? The rights of the community are also important, and seeing prosperous communities, communities that are viable and lively across the country as a network is also important. So, that balance is there. In terms of the detailed issues that you raised, please bring them forward in the consultation, and we can scrutinise them further. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785377 345 En 2026-11-10T17:47:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15433&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 12176 12176 Paul Rock https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12176 Rock, Paul Community ownership lies at the heart of sustainability. It is something the Green Party has campaigned tirelessly for, and it was included in our manifesto. In our communities, there are often much-loved natural green areas where children play, the local fox lives and people can breathe. These places are important community assets, just as the local pubs, schools and chapels are. It's about connection, culture and care. Scotland's introduction of the community right to buy shows that when the definition of community assets includes green open spaces, the social, environmental and well-being benefits are much greater than the sum of their parts. So, I'm delighted to see that land is included in the draft proposals. Implementation, of course, must also be practical, without placing undue burdens on volunteers working to unrealistic deadlines. How will the Welsh Government learn from communities with experience of similar legislation elsewhere and how will the Government ensure that communities are equipped and empowered to be able to participate in the process? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785379 346 Cy 2026-11-10T17:48:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15502&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much. In looking at this consultation, we have looked at any lessons that could be learned from Scotland and England, but we want to create a model that suits Wales and the communities of Wales. But certainly, we are looking beyond this country to see what good practice is there already. I agree with you that outdoor spaces are equally as important as assets for the community to own. Not everybody wants to go and enter into a building and be part of a community group that owns a building. There are so many different activities that can be held in community gardens, allotments. I've seen that at work in a number of communities, so that is crucial. So, certainly, land is a central part of what we wish to do. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785381 347 Cy 2026-11-10T17:49:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15564&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 8579 8579 Peredur Owen Griffiths https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8579 Griffiths, Peredur Owen I welcome today's statement, which shows that this Plaid Cymru Government has the ambition and desire to right a wrong that has been suffered by our communities for too long. Communities in Scotland and England have used this legislation to save village halls, chapels and pubs and to safeguard historical landmarks, but under successive Labour Governments, this hasn't been applied to our communities. It's no surprise that the Institute of Welsh Affairs has described communities in Wales as those that are least empowered in the 'Our Land' report published in 2022. Cabinet Secretary, can you give me an assurance that the new legislation will be more similar to the stronger version introduced by the SNP in Scotland rather than the weaker one introduced by the Tories in England? And can you explain how the Government will ensure that the right gives a real advantage to communities over commercial buyers, particularly when developers with deep pockets show interest in the same assets? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785355 348 Cy 2026-11-10T17:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15602&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785383 349 Cy 2026-11-10T17:50:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15626&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you. As I said, we will be looking in detail at the plans in Scotland and England, and we'll be learning lessons from them, but we will want to create our own model in Wales. Our communities are different in a number of ways—rural communities, communities where the Welsh language is alive—so we need to consider everything within that context. Our programme for government does commit us to bring this legislation forward. As you say, it does relate to empowering communities to shape their own future. We hear from many directions the importance that decisions are made as close to people as possible. Giving a community the right to decide within their own space what buildings and what assets and land could be useful to them as a community to keep that community viable is crucially important and an important part of why we are doing this. This is an opportunity—it's giving the first opportunity to communities to take action when an important local asset is put on the market. The process needs to be a fair one and proportionate to owners. Just to finish the points that have been made, the funding, the advice, the expertise and the practical support are all required by communities as well. I hope during the consultation we will have a proper discussion about how we can use this sort of legislation to empower our communities so that people do feel that they have power in their own communities to make decisions about their future and that they don't feel that they have no power in terms of very important issues. So, I see this, in that very broad context, as a significant step forward. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785387 350 En 2026-11-10T17:52:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15762&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 12159 12159 David Hughes https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David While we all want to see thriving communities, any community right-to-buy scheme must put local people at its heart. Too often, communities watch valued pubs, chapels, sports clubs and historic buildings disappear while decisions are made without meaningful local input. We support the principle that communities should have a greater say over the future of important local assets. However, any scheme must be simple, transparent and affordable. It cannot become another layer of red tape that delays investment or places unnecessary burdens on property owners. From Reform's perspective, the priority is to empower local residents, community groups and volunteers to take ownership of assets that matter to them, while respecting private property rights and ensuring value for taxpayers' money. Strong communities are built from the ground up, not imposed from the top down. If a scheme is to succeed, it must give local people real power to protect their heritage, strengthen community pride and keep decision making as close to the community as possible. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785391 351 Cy 2026-11-10T17:54:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15850&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much. I very much appreciate that we had a very positive contribution from the Reform benches this afternoon. We started with a contribution that was extremely negative and was full of misinformation in terms of what is actually happening at this point, namely a consultation. So, I very much appreciate that there is a difference of opinion within your group. My job now, over the ensuing period, will be to convince everyone in this Chamber that this is a very important step forward. Just to conclude, on Saturday there is an initiative being launched in Abersoch. Some of you will know of the community of Abersoch, a community that has a large number of second homes and a community where the Welsh language is under real threat. The community there has come together and created the Menter Rabar enterprise. They have succeeded in getting the old school, which has closed down. They have attained that site. The site has been transformed. There are business units there, there is a cafe there, they have worked with the village hall opposite and have installed solar panels and so on by coming together to work in this way. I want to see more communities doing that sort of thing. I want to see communities empowered to take ownership of assets within their own communities, and legislation of this type would help that, because too often they lose these assets. They stop benefiting the community, and we do need to be ambitious. I welcome your contribution. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785374 352 Cy 2026-11-10T17:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15902&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785388 353 En 2026-11-10T17:56:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=15976&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike I wrote an article on community right to buy in the run-up to the Senedd election as a member of the Co-operative Party. Community gives people a sense of belonging—where you live, where your community is. Your community is where you feel you belong. Some people live in an area that may have very close community, where everyone knows each other or about each other. The hub of their community could be their church or chapel, community centre or their sports club. People have a strong sense of attachment to buildings in their community. Far too many old buildings are left to deteriorate by owners who often live many miles away, sometimes outside Great Britain. What we need is the ability for local communities to come together and to register places they love as assets of community value. If enough people register their support, ACV status is granted. Then, if the asset is put up for sale, local communities have first refusal on the building. This gives local communities and future generations real protection from harmful and destructive development, or just leaving places to rot. The community right to buy is proven, popular and politically effective. We need to legislate to bring it in in Wales. Why doesn't the Minister want to do it now? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785390 354 Cy 2026-11-10T17:57:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16042&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you, Mike, and thank you for your continued support for this agenda. I know that you, amongst others in the Labour group, have been very supportive of this idea for a number of years. I'm moving as quickly as I can and building on the work that has been done over a number of years. The evidence is there, but we now have to hold a short consultation, and we'll move forward, before the end of next year, as the first part of this Government's legislative programme, to bring a Bill forward. There'll be an opportunity for us all to contribute to that scrutiny. But, more importantly, it'll be an opportunity for communities to come together to discuss and to think about their own future and for them to feel that power that is so important. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785392 355 Cy 2026-11-10T17:58:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16098&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Finally, Cabinet Minister, Sarah Cooper-Lesadd. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785393 356 En 2026-11-10T17:58:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16102&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 12167 12167 Sarah Cooper-Lesadd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12167 Cooper-Lesadd, Sarah Minister, it's important that the record is accurate. Some non-conformist chapels have been sold with few restrictions, but churches in Wales are usually sold by the representative body with restricted covenants for future use, in some cases barring any religious use at all. The Church of England takes a similar approach. It has very rarely sold a church to become a mosque. When planning permission was granted for this in Hanley, it invoked a covenant to block it. Conversions to mosques represent less than 1 per cent of Anglican church closures. So, will the Minister agree that claims about our churches have to be grounded in evidence, and will she consider how communities hoping to save their local churches can make use of this scheme? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785394 357 Cy 2026-11-10T17:59:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16150&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 4981 4981 Sian Gwenllian https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4981 Gwenllian, Sian Thank you very much for presenting that information to the Chamber. You're referring back to a claim made at the beginning of this debate, I believe. So, thank you very much for the detail that you've provided on that issue. I do believe that churches, chapels, mosques, if they are available to the community and that the community wants to retain them, perhaps not as places of worship and perhaps to be changed for another use, but for the benefit of the community—. There are a number of examples of chapels and churches that have been transformed with community hubs as part of them. They host foodbanks, and there can be temporary accommodation that can be used there too, and more permanent accommodation. I know of chapels that have been turned into community housing. So, they have a specific place in this programme, if a community believes that that would strengthen them as a community in retaining those assets. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785370 358 Cy 2026-11-10T18:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16202&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785371 359 Cy 2026-11-10T18:00:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16227&l=en 261110-6 6. Statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning: Community Right to Buy Scheme C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you, Cabinet Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785372 360 En 2026-11-10T18:00:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16229&l=en 261110-7 Statement by the Llywydd C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Before moving ahead to the next item, I have a ruling to report to the Siambr relating to business earlier this afternoon. Having discussed with the Deputy Presiding Officer and reviewed the record, alongside Standing Order 13.9, we consider that the contribution made by Joe Martin, Member of the Senedd, during the business statement was unnecessarily provocative and deliberately offensive. Whilst it is always possible to raise legitimate policy matters in relation to immigration in this Siambr, the focus of that contribution on race and ethnicity was clearly discriminatory, offensive and detracted from the dignity of the Senedd. This is not the first time the Member has pushed the boundaries in his contributions, and I have previously warned him about his conduct. Until I receive a clear indication that the Member understands the boundaries of acceptable parliamentary conduct and apologises to the Siambr, we will not be calling the Member to speak. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785375 361 Cy 2026-11-10T18:01:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16299&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We now move to item 7, statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health. I call on the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health, Nerys Evans. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785386 362 Cy 2026-11-10T18:01:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16313&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health Evans, Nerys Llywydd, the World Health Organization defines public health as, 'the art and science of preventing disease, prolonging life and promoting health through the organized efforts of society.' Ultimately, public health is about protecting and improving the health of the population, preventing ill health and creating the conditions in which everyone can thrive. And as the first, dedicated Minister with specific responsibility for public and preventative health since devolution, my ambition is clear: to create and enable the conditions to give everyone in Wales the opportunity to live a long and healthy life. Over the past decade, improvements in health outcomes have slowed, healthy life expectancy has fallen, and inequalities have persisted. Wales now faces a combination of interconnected challenges that will require a renewed focus on prevention, protection and creating the conditions for good health.  There are three major challenges in which we need a national response, through a new public health strategy and framework. The first one is that the population of Wales live too many years in poor health and in too much avoidable ill health. In terms of what causes ill health in Wales, obesity is one of the most significant preventable causes of ill health in Wales. Around 62 per cent of adults are overweight or living with obesity, increasing the risk of diabetes, cardiovascular disease, musculoskeletal conditions and several cancers. The burden falls disproportionately on our most deprived communities, contributing to widening health inequalities. While smoking rates have fallen significantly over recent decades, tobacco remains one of the leading causes of preventable illness and premature death. The second is persistent and widening health inequalities. People living in our most deprived communities experience poorer health outcomes throughout their lives, develop long-term conditions earlier, and spend significantly fewer years in good health. Healthy life expectancy has been decreasing for both men and women for the past four years. Healthy life expectancy in Wales in the latest year was significantly lower than England for both males and females, and was the lowest in the UK for females. There is a stark difference in healthy life expectancy between the most and least deprived areas. For men, 49.7 years of good health in the most deprived areas, compared with 67.8 in the least deprived—a gap of 18 years. For women, the gap is wider, at 19 years. It's 47.3 in the most deprived and 66.3 in the least deprived. We also see persistent inequalities in screening and vaccination uptake between the least and most deprived areas in Wales, For vaccines, this is prominent for the adolescent vaccines, where there is a 20 per cent equity gap. Such inequalities are neither inevitable nor fair. In modern Wales, where someone lives should not determine how long they live in good health, nor how early ill health begins to limit their opportunities, independence and quality of life. The third challenge is the changing risk environment, changing population needs, infectious disease threats, and the climate and nature emergencies. The threats to public health are also evolving. The COVID-19 pandemic was a stark reminder of the profound impact that infectious diseases can have on individuals and communities and public services. Emerging challenges, including respiratory viruses, antimicrobial resistance, and future pandemics, require us to remain vigilant and prepared. Climate change presents an additional and growing threat, bringing increased risks from extreme weather, flooding, poor air quality, heat-related illness, and the spread of infectious diseases. At the same time, our population is ageing. More people are living longer, often with multiple long-term conditions that can affect their quality of life and independence. We're also seeing increasing concerns about mental health and well-being, particularly among children and young people, with a growing demand for support and services. Children living in our more deprived communities are also more likely to experience low birth weight, poorer developmental and educational outcomes, obesity, speech, language and communication needs, mental ill health, and lower uptake of preventative services. These are creating new and complex risks to health. From disease outbreaks and declining vaccination rates to extreme heat, flooding, and poorer air quality, these challenges are already being felt across our communities, often hitting the most vulnerable hardest. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785385 363 Cy 2026-11-10T18:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16502&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785395 364 En 2026-11-10T18:07:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16639&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys At the heart of these statistics are people whose health and well-being are being shaped by the changing world around them—an older person struggling through a heatwave, a parent worried about a child with a preventable infection, or a family coping with the impacts of flooding on their well-being. That is why public health matters. It's about anticipating risks, preventing harm, protecting those most at risk, and creating the conditions for everyone to live healthy, safe and fulfilling lives. This Government has already taken action to put prevention at the heart of our programme for government, not only through specific actions, such as creating healthier environments through millitr actif, working towards a smoke-free generation and improving access to affordable, nutritious food, but we are changing the way we govern and the way we make decisions. We're breaking down the barriers across Government, working towards a shared understanding of prevention, what we spend and what outcomes are achieved, and working across all ministerial portfolios. The scale of the challenge is immense, and it requires us to recognise that business as usual is simply not an option. If we want different health outcomes and a better future where everyone can thrive, we need a different, proactive approach to public health too. Today, therefore, we are starting that work on a root-and-branch review of current and future public health needs and developing 'Iechyd Da: A New Public Health Strategy and Framework for Wales'. We wish to hear directly from the people and communities of Wales about those issues that matter most to you in preventing disease, prolonging life and promoting health. We'll consider and seek views on current and future public health needs, the challenges, opportunities and priorities. We'll look at the system shifts needed to improve effectiveness and efficiencies, and create a public health system that is ready for the future. We also want to consult on the innovation and digital interventions needed to put Wales at the forefront of public health. The scope of this work is vast, as we know that creating and protecting health and preventing illness are not the responsibility of the health sector alone. They require co-ordinated action across Government and society. Whilst we have a core public health system of specialist organisations, teams and functions whose primary purpose includes protecting and improving population health and preventing ill health, there is, of course, a wider public health system of NHS bodies, local government and other public services, voluntary and community organisations, and other partners with substantial responsibilities or contributions to population health. We also need to consider the wider health influencing system, such as housing, education, employment, transport, planning, food, climate, and the economy, where the primary purpose may not be public health, but decisions have significant population health and equity consequences. The strategy will explore how these all work together to meet today's needs, protect and improve health and well-being, create healthier environments, reduce unfair differences in health, and prepare Wales for a better future. We also want to understand how people access, interpret and use reliable health information to support health and well-being. Good public health depends not only on the availability of accurate information, but on people's ability to understand it, trust it and act on it. Whether it's deciding to get vaccinated, managing a long-term condition, adopting healthier behaviours or responding to public health advice during an emergency, access to trusted information plays a vital role in helping people make informed decisions. While clear communication is essential, trust is what turns information into action. People's experiences can help us understand what strengthens that trust and also what undermines it, and how public services can work more closely with communities to provide information, advice and support that meet people's needs and help improve health outcomes for all. The public health strategy will connect to our wider programme for government, including the child poverty strategy, the national food strategy, and the climate and nature action plan. It will not attempt to cover every issue concerning public health or replace specialist strategies and organisational responsibilities. Its role is to set a clear direction, identify where collective action is needed and turn shared priorities into practical delivery. Alongside a written call for evidence, targeted conversations with communities, Marmot places and voluntary organisations will help us hear from people who might otherwise be missed. We know there is much we can learn from others. The challenges we face are increasingly global in nature, and we are committed to learning from international experience, embracing innovation, and applying the best ideas to improve health and well-being in Wales. The national call for evidence will start the week commencing 23 November and run for 13 weeks. Informed by what we hear and learn, I plan to publish insights from the engagement and guiding principles in spring 2027 and will update the Senedd. The full public health strategy and delivery framework will then be published in summer 2027. Llywydd, I encourage Members to support this work and help people in their communities get involved. Together, we can ensure that the future of public health in Wales is informed by the experiences and priorities of the people it serves. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785384 365 En 2026-11-10T18:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16802&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785389 366 En 2026-11-10T18:12:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=16973&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 12142 12142 Benjamin Hodge Mckenna https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12142 Hodge Mckenna, Benjamin Thank you, Minister, for advance sight of the statement today. I'll start, as I usually do, with where we agree. You said that public health is about creating the conditions in which everybody can thrive. I think we can all agree that that is an ambition that we should be pursuing. A healthy public means a healthy workforce for the economy, it means healthy students and teachers for our education system, and healthy doctors and nurses who can help treat people who only then end up using the NHS when they vitally need it for urgent issues. I also agree with you that the healthy life expectancy numbers are shocking and, frankly, bordering on scandalous. The idea that you can be born in Wales, and, depending on the street that you were born on, there can be a nearly 20-year difference in the life expectancy that you have before developing a chronic condition is a shocking indictment of the way that a quarter of a century of Labour rule has mismanaged public health in Wales. The fact that those numbers are decreasing still and that, at the low level, they can be as low as 49.7 years old, means that there are people across this country who are having to choose between struggling through the end of their careers, the final years of their careers, with a health condition, or having to give up the years of their life where they're most likely to earn the most money because of poor public health outcomes. I also agree with you that it's incredibly important that the Government provides access to high-quality information that is trusted. In my view, that is the role that Government should play in public health; it is not the Government's place to mandate behaviour, for example, as we've seen with the Tobacco and Vapes Act, banning a generation of people from buying cigarettes, because it sets, in my view, a dangerous precedent. If today we decide that we're going to ban people forever purchasing cigarettes in the name of public health, what's to say that, tomorrow, we don't do the same thing for alcohol and, in a few years' time, we're talking about a chicken-nugget-free generation of kids who can never buy junk food? I think that the role of Government in this scenario is to provide that high-quality information and advice to people so that people can make the best choices for their own lives. Obesity, of course, is a serious issue that does need to be addressed, and I think it's incredibly important that we always emphasise that the primary solution to obesity is diet and exercise. We're seeing the rise in glucagon‑like peptide‑1 receptor agonists and other pharmaceutical-based solutions to obesity, and whilst I agree with their use in severe cases where it's important, that emphasis must always be on diet and exercise as the primary treatment. And, of course, in order to encourage people to have better diets and exercise, we need to improve their access to high-quality food and facilities in which they can do so, which is why I was happy to hear you reference that you’re going to be working with partners in Government on the food strategy and how that works in public health, but I didn’t hear you mention in this statement how you were going to work with the Minister for Media, Culture and Sport on how we can improve access to facilities for people to exercise and engage in sport in public. A few questions to close off, then, with. One of the things that you mentioned in your statement is that you're working on breaking down the barriers in Government to deliver this strategy. I'm curious as to what those barriers are currently. Where is the Government not speaking to itself where it should in order to deliver the best outcomes for people? And you outlined as well that you anticipated publishing the strategy in the summer of 2027. That's going to be more than a year into this Plaid Cymru Government, which means that there's going to be very little time for the implementation of this strategy in the end, and as you mentioned, it's something that is going to require the buy-in of a variety of organisations across the country, from employers to local authorities, to schools and elements of our health system. So, what is the approach currently for securing the buy-in from those organisations? And beyond organisational buy-in, there also needs to be individual buy-in from people who agree with the strategy and who want to do their bit to improve their health and improve public health. So, I'd be interested in understanding what the Government strategy is to encourage engagement with this strategy on an individual level. Finally, my final question is: how will the potential success or failure of this strategy be measured? Will it be in improvements in healthy life expectancy? Will it be in reductions in certain diseases that are prevalent across Wales? And how can the strategy ensure that the change in metrics is correctly attributed to public health and not advances in things like technological treatments and improved diagnostics? Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785397 367 En 2026-11-10T18:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=17102&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785398 368 En 2026-11-10T18:17:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=17253&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thank you. I welcome the comments where we agree in terms of the shocking indictment in terms of the healthy life expectancy and the figures that we are facing and the scale of the challenge. You mentioned there high-quality information and the role of Government; well, the information that we have in terms of the impact of smoking is that it is the leading cause of preventable illness and deaths in Wales, causing around 3,800 deaths per year and costing around £1.5 billion. So, that is high-quality information and that absolutely reinforces the fact that we support the smoke-free generation policy, which will come into play next year, to make sure that nobody born after 1 January 2009 can legally be sold tobacco. And it's disappointing to hear the objections from Reform on the interventions to tackle what the leading cause of preventable illness and death is in Wales. You mentioned there diet and exercise and the increasing provision in terms of medication for obesity. This is a really complex picture. There is no one solution to tackle these really complex issues, and that is precisely why we're taking a cross-Government approach on obesity. You mentioned food there; we're working really closely on the food strategy to make sure that not only is it looking at buying local and looking at our procurement rules and supporting our agriculture industry, but that we're also looking at accessing healthy food in schools and teaching children about where food comes from. At the moment, we know of many schools who are growing fruit and veg, but can't cook or eat them in school because of the constraints on them at the moment. So, we want to be absolutely looking at a whole-system approach and changing the relationship we have with food and have a better understanding of where our food comes from. You mentioned the Minister for Media, Culture and Sport—absolutely, I’m working really closely with her on those issues in terms of exercise and sport, but also physical activity. So, the cross-Government work absolutely is that. It's not just about accessing sport and physical activity, it's also looking at our planning system in terms of food and access to food, but also access to open spaces for that physical activity, and that's why we're taking a cross-Government approach. Where previously this work was siloed in Government and across departments within health, we are taking a different approach, understanding that the levers to tackle public health—most of them lie outside of health. So, you mentioned the barriers and what we are tackling. It is breaking down those barriers, making sure that we don't think about prevention and public health as an afterthought when policy is developed. We are putting a prevention lens on all decisions. We have a Cabinet sub-committee, one Cabinet sub-committee, on preventative health, making sure that we have that framework in place, that all decisions—. We know we want to shift resources to prevention. At the moment, we don't know what is being spent on prevention. We are clarifying what we mean by 'prevention', the definitions of that, and then we'll be looking to define what we spend on it. It was heartening to see the Chancellor, in the recent budget, talking about prevention and tracking spend in England. There are, hopefully, some changes to Treasury rules, which then makes it easier for us to track in terms of creating a preventative departmental expenditure limit. So, our officials are working with Treasury officials to see what that actually means. We can't monitor what's happening unless we have that definition and we track the spend. In terms of the timeline, there's a lot of other activity going on at the same time. I mentioned some of the strategies already under way. This is not a stand-alone piece, this is how we get the views of the people of Wales in terms of how we create the conditions for better health, and get their views on what's important in terms of health outcomes, while also responding to the three challenges that I set out. So, we're confident, by the time the strategy is developed, we'll have sight on work that the Cabinet Minister for health is doing on health outcomes, so what are the key priorities for population health, and we're confident that we'll be able to co-ordinate that by next summer. In terms of measuring success and how do we define success, whether it's a public health intervention—I think we need to tip that on its head. These are not just public health interventions, they are interventions from all ministerial responsibilities, for example, looking at the Deputy Minister for Transport, ensuring that we have adequate transport systems in place, so people can access appointments, access physical activity opportunities. So, I would say that the measuring of this is not on public health, it's on the wider system of public service delivery, and how we really go to tackle those health inequalities and the healthy life expectancies that we set out. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785431 369 En 2026-11-10T18:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=17402&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785439 370 En 2026-11-10T18:22:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=17552&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 5038 5038 Jayne Bryant https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5038 Bryant, Jayne Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement today and for setting out this Welsh Government's national approach to public health. I do think there is much in what the Deputy Minister has said today that all Members across the Chamber can agree with. I think we all recognise the scale of the challenge facing our health service. Wales has an ageing population, rising levels of chronic illness, increasing complexity of need and persistent health inequalities that continue to hold too many people back. And we do know that if we are to build a sustainable NHS for the future, we cannot simply focus on treating illness after it occurs. We must do more to prevent ill health in the first place. But, Deputy Minister, while I welcome the emphasis on prevention, this is not a new thing. For many years, Welsh Labour Governments have recognised the importance of prevention, early intervention and person-centred care. We did establish Public Health Wales, delivered world-leading vaccination programmes, improved cancer outcomes, invested in screening, promoted physical activity and healthy lifestyles, and developed long-term strategies in areas such as mental health and suicide prevention. Indeed, the principle that health is shaped not simply in hospitals and GP surgeries, but in our schools, in our communities, our housing, our workplaces, our economy has long informed public policy in Wales. So, Deputy Minister, you've spoken of addressing the root causes of poor health, and I absolutely agree with that ambition. If we're serious about reducing health inequalities, then we must be serious about tackling poverty, and particularly child poverty. We know that income, housing, employment, educational attainment, access to childcare and mental well-being are amongst the strongest determinants of health outcomes. So, can the Deputy Minister tell us how this strategy will drive action across Government to address those wider social determinants of health, and how success will be measured?  I also want to ask about the Government's commitment to dedicated health plans for children and older people. Plaid Cymru's manifesto promised targeted children and older people's health plans, yet the commitments appear to have been diluted in the programme for government, with those specific plans not explicitly referenced. So, can the Deputy Minister provide reassurances today that the needs of children and older people will not be subsumed into a broader strategy and treated as an afterthought? Will we see those dedicated plans backed by clear objectives, measurable outcomes and meaningful investment? Llywydd, if public health and prevention is genuinely to become a whole-Government mission, then funding does matter. In its 'The First 100 Days' document, Plaid Cymru committed to exploring the feasibility of a prevention departmental expenditure limit, or PDEL, as part of the 2027-28 budget. A number of organisations, including the future generations commissioner and the Health Foundation, have argued that creating a dedicated mechanism to track and prioritise preventative spend could help drive that cultural change across Government. So, you've mentioned in your answer to the previous speaker about exploring that, and you mentioned the definition. So, I'm really keen to hear when we will have that definition. And if you are going to pursue that PDEL, how will you ensure that that preventative investment represents genuine additional effort, rather than simply rebadging existing expenditure? The UK Labour Government has committed to introducing it at the 2027 spending review, and the Chancellor has described the commitment as protecting prevention spending that brings down costs in the future. So, has the Deputy Minister or her officials had any discussions with the UK Government on this work, and when do you think we will see a decision from this Government? While the Minister's portfolio title might be a new one in this Senedd, there has already been a clear direction of travel on public health and prevention. The new challenge is to demonstrate how the Welsh Government will actually deliver those measurable outcomes. So, Deputy Minister, there is broad agreement on the destination—a healthier Wales with fewer inequalities and a more sustainable NHS. So, as I say, the test now is whether the Welsh Government can match that with the delivery and the ambition with action. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785438 371 En 2026-11-10T18:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=17702&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785443 372 En 2026-11-10T18:27:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=17845&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thank you, and thank you for the comments welcoming the approach and the consultation. I accept the work that's happened under the previous Labour Governments in this space, in terms of Public Health Wales and screening and vaccinations and the other initiatives you mentioned. But I hope the Member would also accept that we aren't where we need to be in terms of the inequalities that exist—the widening inequalities, the increasing health inequalities that we've got. That's why this—although it's a new title, I appreciate that—is a new approach in terms of the cross-Government nature of this role. We haven't had that before. We have political buy-in from every single member of the Cabinet to make sure that this is embedded and there are early discussions in policy development and legislation on how we frame things. But we are only a couple of months into this new Government. On your point on the budget, of course, we are in the process of laying the budget for next year. So, that work on identifying what we spend now, the clarified definition of what we mean by prevention, will not be in place for the next financial year. But officials are working with Treasury officials in terms of what that announcement by the Chancellor a couple of weeks ago for England means for us and what we can then feasibly do within Treasury rules in terms of how we report on prevention spend. The long-term ambition, of course, over this term of the Government is to make sure that we shift resources towards prevention. Now, you will know—you've heard the Cabinet Minister for Finance and other Ministers say—that we are facing a 0.5 per cent cut in our budget next year. So, we are unable to do everything that we want to do in the next financial year. But this is about the fundamental, significant strategic change in how we're governing—that we look at prevention earlier on in terms of our activity, in terms of our decision making, and that we have a prevention lens in everything that we're doing. We will see those changes over the next four years in terms of how we operate. We have that political buy-in from all Ministers and all departments to make sure that is a success. In terms of the wider impact, the health impact assessments, introduced by the last Labour Government, is a great example of that; they will come into force next year. I'm sure that will have a really big impact in terms of ensuring that public bodies in Wales look at prevention and at reducing those health inequalities. Some local authorities are already using that, of course, and it will be good to see how other public bodies take forward their duties under that and the impact that makes. In terms of the root causes, absolutely, and, again, that's why it's a cross-Government approach. We had a Cabinet sub-committee yesterday and the Deputy First Minister, we were talking about—. Absolutely, as you said, these are issues of social justice and poverty. And that's why, as a Government, we're prioritising. We've heard the statement by the Deputy First Minister this afternoon about cost-of-living measures; the Cynnal payment, the significant investment we're putting into childcare, is absolutely fundamental. It's not just a childcare issue—it's a health issue, it's an economy issue, it's a cost-of-living issue, it's an equality issue. And we've got that buy-in across Government. In terms of the children's health plan, investing in early life is one of the most effective actions, of course, as you rightly point out. So, that will be a key consideration as we move forward with the development of the children's health plan. The approach must focus on strengthening support for children and families at the earliest stage, improving co-ordination between health, education, childcare and family support services to ensure that children experiencing disadvantage are identified and supported at the earliest opportunity. And on the older people's plan, the Deputy Minister for Social Care, Mental Health and Women's Health is reconvening the ministerial advisory forum on ageing, bringing together key voices representing older people in Wales. The Deputy Minister will work with the ministerial advisory forum on ageing to develop a cross-Government older people's plan, applying an ageing lens to the programme for government commitments, and helping ensure older people's experiences are reflected in the delivery. And in terms of the public health plan, that will have a life-course element to it to make sure we don't lose that focus on those really important bits of work. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785408 373 En 2026-11-10T18:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18002&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785409 374 En 2026-11-10T18:31:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18104&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Can I thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement again today? I welcome the position you hold, because prevention is so fundamental to our health system. It must be at the heart of any sustainable health service. For too long, Welsh health policy has been dominated by crisis management, but unless we tackle the root causes of ill health the pressures on our NHS will only continue to grow. Indeed, our past health and social care committees have identified many avenues to drive prevention. Indeed, past Cabinet Secretaries and the current Cabinet Minister recognise the importance of prevention, and talked at several occasions in this Chamber about double funding and things like that to make a headway into prevention. So, prevention and all of its causes isn't a new conversation. It's one we've been having for, certainly, my five and a half years here. So, I'm quite surprised that, recognising all of the information, the plethora of information and strategies around here, we're going to have to wait until 2027 for the delivery of that framework. I would have thought that could be something that could have been accelerated really quickly, recognising the urgency of prevention in our health system today. You did mention that there are many strategies under way, and Wales has seen no shortage of strategies in this regard over the years, but we do need to see that talk converted into action and deliverable, tangible results. Deputy Minister, as you pointed out, cardiovascular disease remains one of the largest public health challenges facing Wales, with hundreds of thousands of people living with cardiovascular conditions and thousands of deaths every year. Many of the key risk factors, as you pointed out and has been pointed out around the Chamber, including smoking, obesity, poor diet and physical inactivity, are precisely the issues that preventative health policies should be addressing. I'm hoping that the food strategy will look at that holistic food system, which might drive some of those changes that we need. So, will the Welsh Government therefore support ambitions to significantly reduce cardiovascular deaths in Wales? And in that regard, what role will organisations such as the British Heart Foundation and the national cardiovascular research network play in helping to deliver that objective? Clearly, there have been huge efforts to do what—. There should be huge efforts to enable primary care to do what it does best. We've heard so many times in past committee reports that primary care is the answer in many ways to some of the preventative agendas we need to drive. All that said, Llywydd, there is one issue that towers above all others. The Conservatives, in addition to the Liberal Democrats, Reform and the Green Party, and indeed Plaid Cymru prior to the election, have all advocated for a full COVID inquiry. Now, while the Deputy Minister rightly acknowledges the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, there is no reference to the need for a Welsh COVID inquiry or clear process for learning the lessons from Welsh Government decision making during the pandemic. The coronavirus pandemic was the single greatest public health challenge of our lifetimes. Thousands of Welsh families lost loved ones. Front-line NHS and care staff made immense personal sacrifices. Children lost time in education. Patients saw operations cancelled and waiting lists rose dramatically. Entire communities saw their lives transformed. As this statement fails to reference that experience, it raises a fundamental question. How can we talk about the future of public health without talking about the biggest public health emergency in modern Welsh history? A genuine post-COVID reset cannot simply mean moving on and hoping people forget what happened. This Government cannot claim to support a post-COVID reset while simultaneously refusing to properly examine what happened during COVID. Those two positions are fundamentally incompatible. For a Government that frequently speaks about lessons learned and future resilience, this smacks of empty rhetoric and broken promises. And Minister, you spoke earlier about the need to build trust, but, sadly, it seems that trust has been lost when it comes to COVID. That is why the Welsh Conservatives remain clear that there must be a full, independent, judge-led, Welsh COVID inquiry. Families, healthcare workers and the people of Wales deserve answers. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785410 375 En 2026-11-10T18:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18302&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785412 376 En 2026-11-10T18:36:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18400&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Diolch, and thank you for the supportive comments in terms of the way forward. You referenced there the important work of the health committee, and obviously the Cabinet Minister was a member of the health committee in previous years, and a lot of the great work that the committee has done has fed into the thinking and the policies that we are now taking forward. It shows the importance of the scrutiny functions of committees here in the Senedd. You mentioned concerns with the timescale. I can assure you that does not stop the activity that's carrying on. This is about the public health framework and strategy. The work on prevention carries on and is central to every decision we make every day already: we launched a consultation last week on energy drinks and banning energy drinks for under-16s; the work on tobacco and vaping that we discussed last week; the cross-Government work on child poverty that we mentioned; and you mentioned and I know you've got a specific interest and expertise in the food strategy. That was cross-Government working, making sure it's not just an issue that the food division of the Welsh Government looks at, but that we look at procurement, we look at healthy foods, we look at the curriculum, and we look at how our schools can deliver healthier foods. We're looking at nutritional standards, we're looking at supporting businesses, so it's a whole-Government approach. So, although there's the consultation—and I think it's right and proper that we hear from the people of Wales in terms of their priorities—that does not mean that work is waiting until the strategy is in place. That will give us the foundations to make sure that we're tying everything together in terms of the national priorities while also preparing the three urgent points I mentioned there, and you mentioned one in terms of COVID and pandemic preparedness. We need to be facing the global challenges that are facing us. We know about climate change and the excess deaths we've seen in terms of the excess heat that we've had. We know the impact of climate change in terms of flooding and the other impacts, so we need to prepare the public health system in Wales, which is the intention behind this strategy, to make sure that we are prepared for the future.  In terms of the COVID review, you will know, obviously—. The Minister set out that he had considered the most appropriate model for this work, and concluded that an independent review offered the best way of assessing whether changes made since the pandemic have delivered meaningful and lasting improvements, and whether further action may be needed. I did of course reference COVID in the statement, because that absolutely demonstrated the importance of strong public health and health protection systems in safeguarding the population from major threats to health. We know the inquiry reinforces the importance—the UK COVID inquiry reinforces the importance—of preparedness, resilience and co-ordinated action, and we're, of course, learning the lessons from the inquiries and the modules that have already been published, and making sure that this root-and-branch review of public health provides the opportunity to consider whether the current arrangements we've got are sufficiently robust, integrated and future focused to meet those challenges for the future. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785416 377 Cy 2026-11-10T18:39:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18583&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw One-minute contributions now.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785417 378 En 2026-11-10T18:39:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18586&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Let's see how many contributions we can get in with good short questions and short answers as well—Deputy Minister, you can help us as well. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785419 379 Cy 2026-11-10T18:39:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18593&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Sera Evans first. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785420 380 Cy 2026-11-10T18:39:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18594&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera Thank you, Llywydd, and thanks for your statement today, Deputy Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785422 381 En 2026-11-10T18:39:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18597&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera Welsh policy making has embraced the language of prevention for some time now without being ambitious enough about what prevention really means. Part of that has to be about upstreaming focus to stop the very emergence of risk factors before they can take root. Focusing on the first 1,000 days of life and investing in the well-being of our children is a must. Those early years represent a unique window of opportunity to influence lifelong outcomes and improve population health. As we know, for example, the children exposed to adverse childhood experiences are at much greater risk of premature ill health. And when child poverty has remained at the scandalously high levels we've seen in Wales for so long, it's little wonder that so many experience poorer health outcomes down the line. As you've mentioned, Dirprwy Weinidog, the Welsh Government is already taking action here through the expansion of our childcare offer and the Cynnal child payment, which we hope the UK Government will make a decision on soon. How will this new strategy build on those interventions and ensure that investing in the first 1,000 days becomes a central pillar of a genuinely preventative approach to health? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785399 382 En 2026-11-10T18:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18602&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785400 383 En 2026-11-10T18:41:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18670&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Diolch yn fawr. As mentioned in the previous answer, we are taking a life-course approach in developing this strategy, for the reasons you rightly set out in terms of the focus on the first 1,000 days. We would even shift it further in terms of maternal health. We know a lot of these health outcomes for our babies, children and young people are determined by, down to, maternal health. So, some of the things we need to tackle are smoking prevalence amongst pregnant women, and the health of pregnant women as well. We need to think holistically about what affects children's health, and that's why we're taking that life-course approach to the strategy and the framework. We absolutely need to show—. Another reason why it has to be cross-Government is that this is not just a public health response to the challenges you set out. You rightly stated it's poverty. The Deputy First Minister has a child poverty strategy task and finish group, which I'm a member of, looking at what levers we have in public health to absolutely maximise the income available for the families that need it most and working on how we can do it collectively, rather than piecemeal, which has been the approach. And given we know that—. Peter Fox mentioned about some of the double funding. We know there are lots of great initiatives, but it absolutely needs to be laser focused on outcomes to make sure we're not doubling up on activity and being very clear on what we're trying to do in terms of the health outcomes we're trying to achieve. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785401 384 En 2026-11-10T18:42:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18760&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 12191 12191 Steven Rodaway https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12191 Rodaway, Steven I welcome the statement by the Government on public health. To echo Peter Fox, it does talk about trust. I might suggest this Government is off to a bad start by avoiding a statutory inquiry on COVID again, but, moving on, prevention must begin in schools. The Government has made relationship and sexuality education mandatory. Wales also mandates health and well-being, but does not guarantee consistent teaching and content about preventable illness. We believe the balance of the curriculum is wrong. Some of the classroom time schools currently devote to RSE would be better used to provide practical teaching about excessive sugar, alcohol, smoking, vaping, poor nutrition and, crucially, inactivity, and their long-term consequences, including obesity, addiction, diabetes and liver disease. This knowledge could help them make healthier choices, reduce preventable illness and ease future pressures on the NHS. Plaid needs to review this option, spend less time wasting money on overseas vanity projects and work for Wales on the benefits of starting preventative health early. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785402 385 En 2026-11-10T18:43:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18833&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Well—. It's good to see the welcome for the focus on public health and the actual need to focus on smoking, which I'm not sure is shared by the whole Reform group in terms of the need to tackle smoking, as mentioned before. I think the comments last week were that it was discriminatory, the actions we're taking to tackle tobacco and vaping, which is extremely disappointing, given the challenges we set out and the impact of preventable diseases and deaths in Wales. The work on the healthy schools Wales network is being reviewed at the moment. We are working cross-Government, working with colleagues in education, to make sure we do make those links. You will have seen the first 100 days programme, where we developed a new swimming programme for primary schools. Too many primary schools are missing out, not just on the physical activity, but the crucial life-saving skills of water safety. So, we are rolling that out over the next couple of years to all our local authorities. And also, the milltir actif, the daily mile—some schools are already doing it, but we're setting out a clearer objective in order to measure the outcomes of that activity. That is cross-Government working, ensuring that we use the skills and knowledge that we have, making sure that we use every opportunity to embed that really important public health messaging at an early age and tackle the misinformation, and teach our young people how to tackle misinformation and see misinformation when they see it, because unfortunately it is far too common in our political rhetoric and on social media at the moment. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785430 386 En 2026-11-10T18:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18902&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785432 387 Cy 2026-11-10T18:45:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18930&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Good evening to you, Deputy Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785433 388 En 2026-11-10T18:45:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18934&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Just two things, if I may say. I really welcome this statement. There's some really great stuff in it. I just really want us to make sure that we look at what evidence we've got already and that we don't reinvent the wheel. So, for example, on food, the Equality and Social Justice Committee published a report only in March 2026, called 'Food for thought', looking at what the recommendations could be about sustainable food communities. So, it would be really great if you could grasp those. And I do echo the issue around the first 1,000 days. That's critical, isn't it? If we can get that right, then there's a good chance that that's a brilliant start in life. And, again, connecting diet and our babies. Omega-3, we know, helps brain development. So, can we look at how we can support pregnant women having omega-3 at an early stage when they can't afford it? Those of us who can, could, we were in a great position, but there are so many communities that can't. So, it's really great to see it, and I really will support you in everything. That's all I wanted to say. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785434 389 Cy 2026-11-10T18:46:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18995&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thank you for that support. I appreciate it a great deal. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785435 390 En 2026-11-10T18:46:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=18998&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys We're absolutely not reinventing the wheel. There's so much great evidence out there of what works, some innovation, some community projects, but we want to hear from people what's important to them and how we scale up, so that we don't lose that best practice. In terms of the research, absolutely, making sure that we gather the evidence. Also internationally, I think that's really important, that we look globally to the countries that are doing this well. I think the evidence is there. What we've lacked previously is ensuring that all those levers work together in the right direction towards the right focused outcome. The first 1,000 days is a perfect example of that, where it's a cross-Government initiative to make sure that we use all those levers, and we'll certainly make sure we pick up those committee reports, which are really important to feed into this process. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785440 391 Cy 2026-11-10T18:47:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19042&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Finally on this item, Gwyn Williams. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785441 392 En 2026-11-10T18:47:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19045&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. The Government is right to focus on prevention. Bad habits, lack of opportunities to improve, as well as negative reinforcement, all create generational health inequalities that burden our families, communities and national health service. The best way to look at this is through longitudinal studies. I'm happy to say that the Generation New Era study is the largest such study ever to be launched, and is launching this week, with 30,000 babies in the UK being recruited, with 4,500 babies here in Wales. I'm proud to say that Swansea University is running the Welsh arm of this study. But in the meantime, if we want behaviours to change, we must start young, promoting a healthy life via community activities, volunteering and particularly sport from a young age. It all makes a difference. What is the Deputy Minister proposing to do to encourage our children away from smartphones and tablets and towards the playing fields we are all so desperate for them to use, so that they can one day play for the Ospreys, which I'm sure you will agree is the highlight and pinnacle of Welsh achievement? [Laughter.] Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785476 393 Cy 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health I The Deputy Presiding Officer (Kerry Ferguson) took the Chair. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785448 394 En 2026-11-10T18:48:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19112&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Well, even though my great-uncle played for Swansea and beat the All Blacks in that famous game in the 1930s, I am an avid supporter of the Scarlets. We want to see community opportunity to play rugby in all our communities across Wales. But you're right in terms of making sure those opportunities are there. We know that, in secondary school, only 23 per cent of boys and I think 14 per cent of girls meet the recommended activity guidelines. So, we have to create the conditions. This is not about blaming people; it's about the conditions that people are in, either poverty or a lack of access to facilities or lack of awareness. So, we need to create the conditions as Government to make that happen. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785450 395 Cy 2026-11-10T18:49:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19159&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys I would also say that I visited— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785451 396 En 2026-11-10T18:49:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19162&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys I visited Ysgol y Dderwen in Carmarthen last week, a primary school, a school the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability attended, and spoke to their school council, an all-age council. They had some fantastic ideas in terms of what we need to be doing. One was increasing the lighting in our communities to make sure that they can be physically active at night. One was tackling vaping and making sure that we absolutely do that and try to stop people from starting to vape. Hearing that from six and seven-year-olds was quite something. They also wanted new goals for the school, which I don't think is in our jurisdiction, but the headmaster certainly heard them. But that's really important, isn't it, hearing from our young people; they understand the challenges; they can see what's around them. And the Chief Medical Officer for Wales is doing a really important piece of work on children's health and has been engaging with children across Wales, and we expect that to be announced early in the new year, with some really, really rich data and insight from our young people. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785481 397 En 2026-11-10T18:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19202&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785483 398 Cy 2026-11-10T18:50:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19222&l=en 261110-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Developing a New National Approach to Public Health C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you very much, Deputy Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785485 399 Cy 2026-11-10T18:50:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19223&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry We'll move now to item 8, statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: developing a Welsh welfare system. I call on the Deputy First Minister, Sioned Williams. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785490 400 Cy 2026-11-10T18:50:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19237&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality Williams, Sioned Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I am pleased to make this statement today to outline our progress in developing a Welsh welfare system, a fairer and more compassionate welfare system that reflects the needs and values of Wales, and provides effective support for individuals and families. This work has long been championed by my party. A proposal that I brought forward on this was supported by the Senedd and was initiated through co-operation with the last administration. The Government's focus on prevention and directly addressing the need to ensure fairness for the people of Wales means that this is an absolutely key priority for me as Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality. Poverty rates in Wales are among the highest in the UK. If we do not act now, there is a real risk that more households will be drawn into financial hardship or into crisis. We're already taking action where the levers lie with us in Wales, including through our childcare offer and our expanded free school meals offer. However, many of the key levers on welfare rest with the UK Government. Dirprwy Lywydd, the principle of making a Welsh welfare system easier to access and simpler to understand is central to its development. The goal is a system that enables more people to receive the help that they are entitled to, from schemes such as the council tax reduction scheme, free school meals and healthy start vouchers. This is a shared commitment with local authorities and other partners to make sure that Welsh benefits are delivered in a way that is compassionate and person centred. At its heart, this is about addressing a simple but fundamental challenge: too many people in Wales are not receiving the right support, at the right time, despite the existence of a raft of support designed to help them. Too often, it can be too difficult to find support and gaining access to that support can be complicated or inconsistent. When that happens, families miss out on vital income, and hardship deepens and inequalities widen.  We all know the consequences of that: the growing use of foodbanks, rising levels of problem debt, and the pressures facing households struggling to meet the costs of everyday essentials. The consequences can be seen in the impact that poverty has on health, educational attainment and life chances. That is why improving access to financial support is a crucial part of our wider efforts to tackle poverty and improve well-being across Wales.  We have already delivered on our commitment for an independent review of Welsh benefits. The review examined the purpose, delivery and impact of Welsh benefits, and it has provided recommendations that will help to inform the expansion of our work on streamlining Welsh benefits. I have been clear that, through this work, we want to see tangible action that delivers improvements to how people access their entitlements to Welsh benefits. Our steering group has developed a route-map that consolidates the activity in phase 1 and expands the scope of the programme to include other Welsh benefits that have scope to be streamlined. I look forward to presenting the route-map to local authority leaders at the partnership council later this week, for collective endorsement as part of a shared, renewed commitment to deliver an approach that is more coherent and more person centred. Dirprwy Lywydd, this work on the accessibility of Welsh benefits sits within a wider context. Wales does not have full control over welfare policy, and there are people, in my view, who are suffering unnecessarily as a result. The UK welfare system does not always align with Welsh Government priorities, and it does not align with our principles of fairness and compassion. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785436 401 Cy 2026-11-10T18:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19502&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785437 402 En 2026-11-10T18:55:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19522&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned While improving access to existing support is essential, we must also continue to explore how an expanded Welsh system of benefits and support can better meet the needs of our communities. There's a strong case for this. Wales faces distinct social and economic challenges, and our experience has shown that policies are most effective when they are designed around the realities of Welsh communities. The more influence we have over the design and delivery of support, the greater our ability to ensure that help reaches those who need it most and reflects our values of fairness, dignity and social justice. When we look at what Scotland has been able to achieve through its devolved welfare powers, we can see the clear benefits of having greater control over the design and delivery of welfare. The Scottish child payment has made a real tangible difference to child poverty in Scotland. And this is something we want to do here in Wales through our Cynnal child payment, building the case for devolving the powers we need to roll the payment out in full, Wales-wide. The biggest obstacle to delivering Cynnal now stands, not in Wales, but in Westminster. While there has been some recent engagement between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, the fact remains that we wait to hear whether we will get the DWP and HM Revenue and Customs disregards we need so that the payment, targeted at low-income families with young children, who most need it, will not lead to those families being penalised as a result. Dirprwy Lywydd, I therefore reiterate my calls for the UK Government to support us to make the Cynnal pilot a reality, not an aspiration. Having the ability to design solutions that meet the needs of communities in Wales is why we must continue to make the case for the devolution of welfare powers, enabling Wales to develop a system that better reflects our values, our priorities and the needs of the people we serve. This is not something that can be achieved overnight. Pursuing and implementing devolved welfare powers is a complex, long-term undertaking, and the transfer of powers will need to be based on a clear and well-thought-out approach, a fair fiscal settlement, and carefully planned with the UK Government. Our focus must be on making the correct decisions, based on robust evidence on where devolved welfare powers could deliver the most significant improvements for people and communities across Wales. This is how we will develop the Welsh welfare system in a measured and sustainable way, and deliver better outcomes for households across Wales. In the meantime, I will continue to make the case for change in the current welfare system. Alongside Scottish Ministers, I have repeatedly called on the UK Government to abolish the benefit cap, which continues to have a negative impact on people in Wales and undermines our efforts to tackle child poverty. I have also urged the UK Government to commit to restoring local housing allowance to the fiftieth percentile, ensuring that housing support better reflects real rental costs and providing greater security for families at risk of poverty and homelessness. But lasting change requires more than reforming individual UK social security policies. It requires Wales having greater control over the welfare decisions that affect the lives of our citizens. That is why the Welsh Government is pressing for greater powers for welfare, so that Welsh Ministers can design and deliver made-in-Wales financial support schemes that reflect the needs and values of people and communities in Wales. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785455 403 Cy 2026-11-10T18:59:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19748&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned We are building a system based on rights, which works for the people of Wales and is shaped by the commitments in the Welsh benefits charter, which are person centred. Ultimately, a welfare system should provide a reliable foundation that prevents people from falling into poverty and helps them to live with dignity. That is the goal driving this work, and that is why this Government remains committed to creating a welfare system that works better for the people of Wales. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785492 404 En 2026-11-10T18:59:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19784&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana After last week's exchanges, I'd hoped that the Deputy First Minister might surprise me with something truly radical: a costed proposal, a measurable target and a delivery deadline. Instead, familiar Welsh Government economics: demand more power, promise another plan and blame Westminster when delivery fails. Let me be clear: welfare must protect those in need, reward work and respect taxpayers. Compassion without financial responsibility is an unfunded promise, and Wales has had quite enough of those. The Minister admits Welsh poverty remains among the UK's highest—quite an achievement after decades of devolved Government. An economy struggling to generate prosperity, public services under pressure and a growing reliance on state support. And the Government's prescription? More powers, more spending and more bureaucracy. Apparently, the cure for decades of Government intervention is even more Government intervention. The Minister speaks enthusiastically about fairness, dignity and compassion—fine words—but fairness is measured not by how much taxpayers' money is distributed, but by whether people's lives actually improve. I noticed Plaid Cymru's audible gasps earlier when I exposed the dire state of our public finances. Apparently, confronting the figures is more uncomfortable than confronting the debt. I repeat, annual debt in the UK—debt interest alone—exceeds by four times the Welsh Government's entire budget, and still this Government demands greater spending responsibilities without explaining how it intends to pay for them. And what evidence of financial competence do we have? An independent review, a steering group, a route-map awaiting another endorsement, plenty of process, precious little proof of delivery. The Minister's own statement admits that existing Welsh benefits are difficult to access, complicated to understand and inconsistently delivered. If Ministers cannot make the existing system work properly, why should taxpayers trust them with a larger one? Then we come to Cynnal. The Minister praises Scotland's child payment as a model for Wales. Perhaps you should examine Scotland's finances as enthusiastically as its welfare policies. By 2029-30, Scotland's devolved social security system is forecast to cost £2 billion more than its corresponding UK funding, a shortfall Scotland must fund itself. Meanwhile, Cynnal remains dependent on decisions about interactions with UK benefits. So, Minister, before demanding Scotland's powers, have you calculated Scotland's price tag? And which Welsh public services would you sacrifice to pay for it? And there is a deeper ideological problem. The Minister calls for abolishing the benefit cap and increasing housing support, but offers no financial assessment of either proposal, no additional cost, no analysis of work incentives, and no convincing explanation of how this reduces long-term welfare dependency. Because welfare should be a safety net, not a permanent substitute for economic opportunity. A successful system helps people through hardship and, whenever possible, towards financial independence. It rewards work, removes barriers to employment, and encourages enterprise. Yet the Minister's statement contains remarkably little about wealth creation, productivity or making work pay. You cannot sustainably redistribute wealth that your economy is failing to create, and you cannot spend your way to prosperity by expanding the machinery of redistribution. I have three questions. The first: where is the fully costed financial model, including administration, future liabilities and the fiscal risks of further welfare devolution? Second, what measurable evidence demonstrates that this Government can efficiently deliver existing Welsh benefits before assuming additional responsibilities? And third, what specific targets will show that these proposals reduce dependency, improve employment and help households become financially independent? Dirprwy Lywydd, Wales needs prosperity, not another political monument to devolution. A Government cannot redistribute wealth it has failed to create nor substitute political ambition for economic competence. Deputy First Minister, your problem isn't a shortage of compassion, it's a spectacular shortage of financial credibility. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785473 405 En 2026-11-10T19:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19802&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785493 406 En 2026-11-10T19:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=19802&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785482 407 Cy 2026-11-10T19:04:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20089&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you. I heard you say at the outset that you recognise that the welfare system is there to protect people who need it. That, of course, is the purpose of the welfare system. And it was good to hear you recognise that. But later in your response, you said that there shouldn't be more interventions. Well, the welfare system is an intervention, so I can't quite follow the logic of your argument. You went on to talk about those in need. I'll tell you who is in need: children living in poverty in Wales. They are in need. Things like the LHA and the benefit cap are having a detrimental impact on people in Wales who live in poverty. And I have set out the reasons why in my statement earlier today.  We know that there are things that we could do if we had the powers. In looking to Scotland, we see that they are the only nation in the UK where experts predict that child poverty will reduce. I think that any reasonable person in this Chamber would think that it should be a duty upon any Welsh Government, and anyone who serves communities here in Wales in this Chamber, to focus on reducing child poverty. Having those powers, for example, to do something similar to the child payment that Scotland can do with their powers, and therefore achieve the outcomes that they are expected to achieve in relation to that, which will have long-term impacts, way beyond targets in the first or second year—this is something that will make a lifelong difference to those children that can be raised out of poverty—. So, having those powers—. There are things that we know that we could do with those powers.  You then insulted the partnership work that is ongoing with the 22 local authorities that are involved in the work of delivering on simplifying and making benefits more accessible to the people of Wales—and you said that you understood why that needed to happen. Well, there are 22 local authorities. We need to bring them together to look at all of the different ways in which they support communities at the moment, and the way that they distribute and deliver on their own plans, and also the plans and schemes that they deliver on behalf of the Welsh Government to support families in need. So, that work, as you can imagine, with 22 local authorities—. They are all committed to this, but we do need to ensure that we do this properly and that we understand the challenges that we need to overcome in order to deliver in this area. You can't flick a switch on systems that are complex and have existed over a number of years. You have to work in partnership. That is how you effectively implement policy.  And then, in terms of the cost to Welsh Government, in relation to the devolution of welfare, as I mentioned in my statement, this, of course, would have to be done in a responsible way over a period of time, as was the case in Scotland, if truth be told. I do acknowledge that there would be financial implications for the Welsh Government in this regard, but what we would want to do, certainly, is ensure that we get a fair settlement in terms of that work, to go hand in hand with those powers, from the UK Government, as we gradually devolve powers that would enable us ultimately to serve people in need in Wales more effectively.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785403 408 Cy 2026-11-10T19:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20102&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785406 409 En 2026-11-10T19:09:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20352&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav As the Cabinet Minister says, the development of a clearly defined Welsh system is a continuation of a process that I've personally long supported. It was a system that was put in place by the previous Welsh Government, so I really welcome that the focus is going to remain today. In the previous Senedd term, the Welsh Labour Government invested £7 billion in policies that put money back into people's pockets, helping with the cost of living. We launched the Welsh benefits charter with our councils to maximise the take-up of Welsh benefits. We provided cash support to people in need through the discretionary assistance fund, and helped people with more than 1 million social welfare issues. So, it is important that this work continues, as you say, in partnership—an endeavour between the UK and Welsh Governments, local authorities and the many charities that do this important work in Wales.  The Cabinet Minister will be aware that her predecessor also called for the abolition of the benefit cap and the restoration of the local housing allowance, and so we are very much together on those issues as well. Will the Cabinet Minister also join me in recognising that lifting the two-child benefit cap has had a positive impact here in Wales? Last year, there were more than 73,000 children living in a household that was affected by this cruel policy, and the decision by our UK Labour Government to abolish that cap has had a tangible impact on the percentage of children here in Wales who are living in poverty. But recognising that not everyone, obviously, is able to work, how will the proposed new Welsh welfare system help those who can work, including disabled people who need reasonable adjustments and support to access and remain in employment? If and when the Welsh Government gets the green light to deliver the Cynnal payment, does the Minister have a plan in place to deliver the pilot scheme? What would be the timescale for payments actually getting to families and the time frame for a wider roll-out? Ensuring a comprehensive and joined-up framework for benefits will place a significant operational demand on front-line services, so what specific financial and administrative resources is this Government allocating to our 22 local authorities to ensure that they can then deliver this automated framework smoothly without overloading local council budgets? And finally, Welsh Labour committed to putting the benefits charter into law, so will the Cabinet Minister today commit to pursuing this? Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785444 410 En 2026-11-10T19:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20402&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785445 411 Cy 2026-11-10T19:11:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20507&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you. Yes, that work was done through the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, and I was pleased to work on that commitment. As I said, I pressed the Government as an individual Member, and others, of course, like the Bevan Foundation, over a long period of time, said that this work was vital. So, I was pleased to be able to start on the work through the co-operation agreement. I just want to remind Members about the two-child limit. That's not the same as the benefit cap. That very cruel decision by the Conservatives was overturned far too late by the UK Labour Government that came into power. I was pleased to see that being reversed. But the cap still captures many of those children and families who have benefited from lifting that limit. They're now caught by the cap. There are statistics from the Bevan Foundation on this. I would welcome if the Labour Party in Wales pressed their sister party—or whoever they are, the party in Westminster—to act on that. That's within the power of the Westminster Government, and it would make a great difference. What I can't understand is this: if the UK Government can do something that was greatly welcomed by us, namely lifting the two-child limit—and we do recognise that that makes a great difference—why not help us to deliver the Cynnal pilot? I just can't understand it. It's something that we could do with our own funding and within our own powers, in terms of delivering that pilot. So I don't understand the delay. In terms of how prepared we'd be and in terms of the timescales and that, we're more or less ready to go. We've been meeting with Steffan Evans, the chief executive of the Bevan Foundation, who's the co-chair with me in our steering group, including also the Welsh Local Government Association and other partners. The scheme is ready. What we need to do is get that consent before we can do it. When we came into Government, we said that we wanted to do this as soon as possible, and so it's a source of great frustration to me that the Prime Minister, who says that he wants to see prosperity in all postcodes, and we know in Wales that many of those postcodes, nearly all of them, in fact, include children in poverty—. He's not willing to press on the Treasury to give us the consent, which would cost the UK Government nothing. And so I appeal to you again on the Labour benches to make that appeal yourselves to your MPs and to your leader in Westminster. So, you're totally right in terms of—. And I recognise and have recognised the work that local authorities have done on this. They are key partners and are vital to the Welsh Government in so many areas, and, of course, as part of this work too. Something that we have considered, for example, is ensuring that we can enable and fund that delivery with programmes such as Cynnal—and, if we had the powers, other things as well—to ensure that they have the capacity to deliver that. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785442 412 Cy 2026-11-10T19:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20702&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785447 413 En 2026-11-10T19:15:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20741&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thank you again, Deputy First Minister, for another statement. Everyone wants a system that is easy to navigate and ensures support reaches those who genuinely need it. The question, however, is whether this latest announcement is simply creating another layer of bureaucracy and administrative cost. At a time when public finances are under significant pressure, taxpayers will rightly want to know how much this new Welsh welfare system is costing, what savings it will generate and what measurable improvements it will actually deliver. So, I'm afraid our respective political philosophies might differ on the way forward for future generations. Too often, under Labour, and now Plaid Cymru, we have seen resources devoted to restructuring Government rather than improving outcomes for people who rely on services. The Conservatives believe that every pound spent by Government should deliver value for money and that waste should be rooted out wherever it exists. Those who genuinely need support from the state should receive it—nobody questions that. We have a duty to support disabled people, carers, those facing unexpected hardship and those who, through no fault of their own, are unable to work. We should always ensure that help is available for the most vulnerable in society. However, welfare must also be sustainable. Where people can work, they should be supported and encouraged into employment because work remains the most reliable route out of poverty, providing not only financial security, but opportunity, purpose and independence. We should also be honest about the broader challenge facing the welfare system. As Kemi Badenoch recently put it, 'Just because it’s called Universal Credit doesn’t mean that everyone in the universe' should be on it. We believe the best route out of poverty is not over-expanding dependency, but economic growth, job creation and helping more people into employment. Our focus is on getting Wales working, creating opportunities, supporting business and ensuring that work always pays. Deputy First Minister, you have confirmed today what many people may have suspected, that this agenda is no longer simply about improving access to existing support, but about making the case for further devolution, and we don't believe this is the right way forward. Ministers have pointed directly to Scotland's welfare powers and argued for greater Welsh control. Before pursuing new powers, the Welsh Government should demonstrate that existing devolved services are delivering measurable improvements for the people who depend on them. Again, up against that backdrop, Deputy First Minister, can you provide some clear answers? Taxpayers deserve to know what additional costs these proposals will create and what measurable outcomes you have achieved so far through your policy frameworks. You have repeatedly spoken about improving take-up and access. After years of work in this area, how many additional people are now successfully accessing support and what evidence is there that outcomes have improved as a result? What evidence is there that this programme has improved outcomes rather than simply expanded administration? And can you, Deputy First Minister, guarantee that this initiative is focused solely on improving services for claimants rather than acting as a stepping stone toward further welfare devolution? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785454 414 En 2026-11-10T19:19:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=20978&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Diolch yn fawr. I think we will probably differ on our approach to this, and that's why we're in different parties, Peter Fox. I reject that false binary, really, between dependency and support. Obviously, people who are able to work should be encouraged to work, but 'enabled to work' is the language that I would use. We have to make sure that people are able to take up opportunities for employment and, sometimes, from places of disadvantage, they're not able to do that. That's one of the reasons, for example, why we're expanding funded childcare, because we know that the high cost of childcare is a barrier to people being able to work. Therefore, those people are unable to either take up work or increase their hours, which would boost their incomes and, perhaps, then, they wouldn't require so much support from the benefit system. But it goes broader than that, doesn't it? First of all, on the bureaucracy piece, the whole point of the work on the Welsh benefits charter is to make bureaucracy less, because, obviously, what we're doing is trying to take a 'tell us once' approach. That can make a real difference to people's experiences, reducing that unnecessary bureaucracy, so they don't have to go to many departments within a council to get different types of support that they'll be eligible for, but there's one gateway, one way to access key benefits. At the moment, that's three, and what the next part of this work will be how we can then move on from there. So, we're now working with local authorities to embed this approach more consistently over Wales, creating a much more joined-up and a much more user-friendly system, and I think it will be easier, also, for local authorities to do. So, we're going to build on the progress that's been made to date. We're going to expand the scope of the programme to include additional benefits. And these are not extra things; these are things that we're already funding, we're already doing and giving money for. The point is that people are finding it difficult to access these things. And we know, then, when people aren't given sufficient support, the cost on the public purse down the line is a lot greater. We heard in the statement previously, given by my colleague the Deputy Minister for Preventive and Public Health, what the impact of low income and poverty can be on health. We know the cost of health, don't we? We know the cost of providing healthcare. This is the ultimate prevention. This is putting in that support when people need it, get it to them as quickly and easily as possible, to prevent the consequences of not having enough income further down the line. So, really, this is a classic example of invest to save. You talked about being effective, this is absolutely to do with being effective. This is effective policy making, this is effective delivery of support funded by the Welsh Government. So, investment, as I said, in the take-up of entitlement is a key preventative measure, and that's why we are—. You can tell I've got personal feelings about this. I've campaigned on this for a long time. This is something that Plaid Cymru as the Welsh Government, now in Government, feels very strongly about, and I think it is really part of the centrepiece of that preventative agenda. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785446 415 En 2026-11-10T19:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21002&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785449 416 En 2026-11-10T19:23:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21209&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub I'd like to thank the Deputy First Minister for the statement today, and I welcome the calls to develop a bespoke Welsh welfare system. But, in order for it to be effective, it must be accessible and inclusive as well. In this statement, you spoke about the importance of being person centred, so I'd like to focus on our elderly population specifically. Around 53,000 people aged 60 live in my constituency of Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf, which makes up about 25 per cent of the population, and, as we know, Wales does have an ageing population as well. Many of those receive both pension credit and universal credit and, as we know, too often, it's the case that you can't get one benefit without receiving another, so the difficulty is in even just getting on the first step of the ladder, in that respect. A recent report by the Older People's Commissioner for Wales showed, as well, that poverty and digital exclusion can often reinforce one another, and particularly with our elderly population. Digital systems can be really overwhelming and difficult to navigate. So, I'd like to know how the Cabinet Minister will work across Government to design a Welsh welfare system that is accessible for our older people, and ensure they are able to claim what they are entitled to? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785452 417 Cy 2026-11-10T19:24:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21283&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for that question. It is a very important consideration for us in terms of this work and the work of the steering group. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785453 418 En 2026-11-10T19:24:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21299&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned As you pointed out, the person-centred approach is absolutely key to this, because we're talking in the end about people, aren't we—people with all kinds of different lives and circumstances that need to be supported, perhaps in similar ways, but the way that they can access that support and the circumstances in which they find themselves are, obviously, unique to every single household, aren't they? So, ensuring that applications and promotional material are available in a variety of accessible formats is really key, and not just online. I think that's really important when it comes to older people. There is a representative from the older people's commissioner's office on the streamlining Welsh benefits steering group. So, we get key intelligence there and challenge from that representative, who really ensures that the views and perspectives of older people in Wales are heard as this work is progressing. As older people are a key population group in the single advice fund, funding has been awarded to Age Concern Morgannwg and Age Cymru Gwent for a three-year period from April 2025 to March 2028. That funding also is being used to increase access to social welfare advice, digital inclusion support, and that community-based engagement for people over 50. Those advice services then, which are also key, aren't they—they are the way to signpost people to this support—are being delivered through a combination of things like home visits and outreach pop-up sessions. They can happen in all kinds of places. You may have seen them. I know I've seen them in my own constituency, where they go to supermarkets and libraries, where older people go from day to day and week to week, and, obviously, those partnership-based community venues. So, I think that blended approach does support accessibility for clients who have got health conditions or mobility issues or, of course, who are elderly. You will have heard me speak earlier about the 'Claim what's yours' campaign as well. Again, that's about helping, isn't it? That's about making sure that, perhaps for elderly people, who would find it a little bit difficult having some of those conversations, or a little bit shy about it—. That's something that comes up again when we hear from groups who represent elderly people—they're quite shy about claiming what's theirs. There's a generational attitude towards it. So, that's why Advicelink Cymru and the 'Claim what's yours' campaign are crucial there. Again, 'Claim what's yours', as I said earlier, uses a variety of media channels, not just online, and it also includes a mail drop to homes across Wales and advertising through pharmacies and GP services. You did mention universal credit and pension credit. Of course, they are reserved benefits. Again, I think that points to the fact—and we've heard it, and I'm sure many Members have heard it—that this interaction between benefits can sometimes be problematic. Again, if we could design those in Wales, we could design them better. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785464 419 En 2026-11-10T19:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21302&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785472 420 En 2026-11-10T19:28:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21496&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian Deputy First Minister, I want to talk about a group of people who haven't been mentioned in your statement. Unpaid carers provide enormous support for the existing welfare of people in Wales. I was amazed when I actually researched the statistics here: the economic contribution of unpaid care providers was £10.7 billion each year as of 2026, which exceeds the whole NHS Wales budget. Collectively, unpaid carers provide 9 million hours of care each week in Wales alone. The percentage of people providing unpaid care in Wales is 10.5 per cent, compared to 9 per cent in England. The burdens of unpaid care are particularly pronounced for older people. Age Cymru reports that 29 per cent of older people provide unpaid care to at least one person, and more than 57 per cent find this a challenge. So, Deputy First Minister, what is being done to enhance support for unpaid carers in Wales and to recognise their invaluable contribution to welfare services across Wales, and why haven't they been included? Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785477 421 Cy 2026-11-10T19:29:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21563&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for that question. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785478 422 En 2026-11-10T19:29:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21564&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for raising the issue around the support for unpaid carers. We absolutely acknowledge and recognise the contribution that you outlined so clearly there that unpaid carers make. There's been a change recently, but we've known for so long that there has been a cliff edge as regards carers allowance, hasn't there? That's something we could have put right a long time ago had we had those powers here in Wales. I know the sacrifices and the situations in which unpaid carers can find themselves, because many of them have to reduce their hours of work or even give up work completely to look after their loved ones. They do it out of love, and where would we be without them? But we know also that there's a great sacrifice there, and that's also in financial terms. So, I think, again, having this integrated system that can point unpaid carers to all kinds of support for which they would be eligible—. And it also acts as that point of contact with services, because we also know that unpaid carers—many of them, a large percentage of them—are not getting the carers' needs assessments that they should have. Many of them don't even recognise themselves as carers. So, it's having this point of contact with local authorities, a tell-us-once approach, where those needs can be recognised, and where they can be signposted to the support that the Welsh Government provides specifically for unpaid carers, such as the respite scheme, for instance, but also making sure that they have everything that, absolutely, they're entitled to as well. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785411 423 En 2026-11-10T19:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21602&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785413 424 En 2026-11-10T19:31:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21678&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca I welcome the statement by the Government today that sets out our ambition, not just as a party, but as a nation that prioritises people, families and those left behind in our communities. This is something that is already long overdue, as people in Wales need the support now and that this support reaches the people who rightly deserve it. People aren't asking for handouts. People need lifelines. This support is needed to buy food, pay energy bills and meet increasing rent costs. I'm proud that this Government is working hard to make sure that those who are entitled to support can access it. We have been hearing for far too long that the rate of child poverty in Wales is too high. I'm proud that this Government is working hard to bring it down, including through our Cynnal child payment, which could help up to 15,000 children. With decisions about Wales best made in Wales, can the Minister provide an update on discussions happening with the UK Government to devolve the powers Wales needs to those best placed to make those decisions? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785414 425 Cy 2026-11-10T19:32:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21748&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for the question.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785415 426 En 2026-11-10T19:32:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21752&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I absolutely agree with you, of course, and I've said that a few times this afternoon and this evening. Just as regards an update, on 8 September I met Baroness Sherlock, who is Minister of State in the Department for Work and Pensions, to discuss the Welsh Government's ambitions around child poverty broadly, but also specifically the Cynnal pilot. Baroness Sherlock agreed to work with us, I'm glad to say, to explore a disregard for the payment, but we're yet to hear any update since then. The Cabinet Minister for Finance wrote to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury on 25 September regarding a number of matters again, but it included seeking a tax exemption for the Cynnal payment. So, engagement with the UK Government is ongoing, is under way, of course, at official level to discuss the pilot, to discuss that interaction with tax and benefits and access to data, which is also key. So, early discussions have been constructive. There's a willingness to explore options, but no formal agreement has yet been forthcoming, and I'm extremely disappointed about that, especially since the change in Prime Minister in Westminster. We need to see action that matches the rhetoric here. So, we will continue to press the UK Government to ensure that those Cynnal payments are neither subject to taxation nor considered in benefit assessments, so that eligible families can realise the full value of the payment, and that we in Wales then can realise the full value of what lifting those children out of poverty, or at least helping to do so, within our own budget and powers can be. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785418 427 Cy 2026-11-10T19:34:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21861&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry And finally, Steve Bayliss.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785421 428 En 2026-11-10T19:34:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21864&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8696 8696 Steve Bayliss https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8696 Bayliss, Steve Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Deputy First Minister, by January all 22 councils in Wales are due to serve free school meals to pupils in years 7 to 8 from households that receive universal credit. In Rhondda Cynon Taf, the expanded offer was due to start on 2 November. Families who newly qualify still have to apply. The Welsh Government's own progress report says councils can use data they already hold to enrol eligible families, where the right data sharing agreements are in place. Families in Afan Ogwr Rhondda need to know when this will happen. Will you publish a timetable by January showing each council and start automatically enrolling pupils who can already be confirmed as eligible? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785423 429 En 2026-11-10T19:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21902&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785424 430 Cy 2026-11-10T19:35:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=21916&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for that question. I am pleased that learners in your constituency are eager to take advantage of this expansion of free school meals in secondary schools for those learners who are in greatest need. Again, it is something that we as a party, and now as a Government, have felt is crucial. It is a key support for our young people. So, this has commenced, as you've just said. All learners will be able to access those free school meals by January of next year at the latest. So, some local authorities have started to roll that out, but it does depend on their capacity to do so. Just as we rolled out free school meals in primary schools in a gradual manner, we of course do have to take into account the circumstances in all schools and all local authorities to be able to deliver that. But by January 2027 at the latest, these eligible learners will be able to access free school meals in secondary schools. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785425 431 Cy 2026-11-10T19:36:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22004&l=en 261110-9 8. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Developing a Welsh Welfare System C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you very much, Deputy First Minister. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785427 432 Cy 2026-11-10T19:36:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22006&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry We move on now to item 9, a statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: shaping healthier, greener, better connected communities—updated active travel Act guidance. I call on the Deputy Minister for Transport, Mark Hooper. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785428 433 Cy 2026-11-10T19:37:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22024&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Deputy Minister for Transport Hooper, Mark Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Today I am publishing our updated Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 guidance. Active travel policy is about giving people the freedom to make more of their everyday journeys by walking, wheeling or cycling, but it is also about the kind of Wales that we want to build—healthier, greener, fairer and better connected. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785429 434 En 2026-11-10T19:37:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22068&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark It means children travelling safely to school, older people reaching local shops independently, and disabled people travelling with confidence, with more opportunities for everyone to meet, socialise and stay connected to their community. For too many people, walking, wheeling or cycling is still not an easy or obvious choice. The purpose of this new guidance is to help change that. The Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 places duties on local authorities to plan, develop and improve infrastructure and facilities for walking, wheeling and cycling. This guidance provides the technical framework to support them. It is not simply a technical manual for engineers. It is a statement about the places we want to create and who they need to serve. That is why inclusion is at the heart of this revised guidance. Active travel must work for everyone. Designing for the widest possible range of people from the outset is fundamental to creating routes that people can actually use. This includes women and girls, children and older people, neurodivergent people, disabled people, as well as people travelling with pushchairs. That principle has shaped the way in which this guidance has been updated. It is based on extensive consultation between November 2025 and February this year: 165 formal consultation responses, four workshops and extensive targeted engagement with those most affected by this guidance, and with professionals. For example, we engaged directly with people who are neurodivergent and autistic, as well as those with a range of disabilities, during the development of the guidance through the accessibility and inclusion panel. I want to personally thank everybody who gave their time, their professional expertise and, crucially, their lived experience. The contributions have directly informed more than 200 substantive amendments to this final guidance. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785456 435 En 2026-11-10T19:40:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22218&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark One of the clearest messages from the consultation was that good design cannot simply be about applying a formula. People broadly supported the proposals, but they also told us that guidance has to recognise the reality of different communities. This Government has listened. Let me highlight some of the most significant changes. Firstly, we are strengthening our approach to shared use routes. People told us that, wherever possible, we should reduce conflict between people walking, wheeling and cycling, rather than trying to mitigate it afterwards. They wanted separation to be preferred and shared use not to be the default. The final guidance now makes these context-specific decisions easier and better reflects the travel patterns of rural Wales and the Valleys.  Secondly, we have made substantial changes to guidance on the interaction between cycle routes and bus stops. This was rightly one of the most closely examined issues during consultation. There was concern, particularly from people with sensory or mobility impairments, about situations where people boarding or leaving a bus had to cross a cycle track. We heard people wanted clearer priorities, greater separation and a clearer hierarchy of solutions. We have responded with a new bus stop design selector. Thirdly, we are strengthening transparency and professional accountability. The guidance contains clearer tools to help designers make decisions, but it does not pretend that every street in Wales can be designed by following a flowchart. A new design decision log gives designers a clearer structure for recording why decisions have been taken. It is intended to support transparent, evidence-based decision making. There is another important change that I want to highlight. The guidance now gives greater prominence to placemaking. People do not experience active travel routes as lines on a map. They experience streets, neighbourhoods, town centres and villages. They strongly welcomed the inclusion of placemaking and the recognition that active travel should not simply create movement corridors, but should contribute to places where people live, learn, play, socialise and access services, helping people stay active, feel connected to their community and support their mental health and well-being. We have strengthened the guidance to recognise that walking, wheeling and cycling are part of the wider transport system. Most public transport journeys begin or end with walking or wheeling, and better connecting active travel and public transport can make sustainable travel a realistic choice for many more journeys. The revised guidance therefore places greater emphasis on integrating walking, wheeling and cycling with public transport. Dirprwy Lywydd, publishing guidance does not by itself change any journey. It does not create a cycle route, improve a crossing or make a pavement accessible. The value of this guidance will ultimately be judged by what happens on the ground. That requires ambition and consistency from everybody involved in the planning, design and construction of active travel routes, whether this is the Welsh Government itself, the local authorities who are currently finalising their updated network maps, the corporate joint committees who are preparing regional funding applications, and also Transport for Wales and other partners. And it requires us to listen to communities and to people with lived experience, not simply at the end of the design process, but throughout it. Our programme for government puts active travel at the heart of the transport system. Our aim is a Wales where more people can choose to walk, wheel or cycle because there is a route available that connects them with where they need to go and because the conditions feel safe, accessible and welcoming. This will support our ambitions on healthier lives and reducing emissions, but it is the prize that is bigger. It is the child gaining the confidence to travel independently. It is the person who is able to move through their local community under their own power. And it is streets that once again become part of the shared life of our towns, cities and villages. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785460 436 En 2026-11-10T19:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22502&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785461 437 Cy 2026-11-10T19:45:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22513&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark That is what healthier, greener and better-connected communities look like. This new guidance gives Wales a stronger foundation on which to build them. Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785462 438 En 2026-11-10T19:45:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22536&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12158 12158 Jason O'Connell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12158 O'Connell, Jason Thank you for your statement, Minister. It's unusual—I'm going to stand here and say I agree with a lot of what you said. There was a high degree of common sense in this. So, I would take this as the win that perhaps it could be. Wales absolutely needs an active travel system, and one that works for everyone. I think we can all agree with that. I'm pleased that you recognise the needs of the disabled community and those with sight loss who have to use the system, who will find it hard to navigate their way around the transport network. For those getting off buses and entering the pavement, poorly designed bus stops and cycle lanes absolutely provide a great danger to them. It's important that we recognise and adapt to their needs when we can. Minister, could you provide us with more detail about how the design selector will work and what feedback has been given to those with disabilities? I'm really pleased that they were engaged in the consultation, so I'm hopeful that a lot of their concerns will be assuaged. There are a lot of warm words in the statement about making communities a better place and improving the integration of transport systems, which I agree is important, but you have to address that, in the guidance, it does say, and I quote, this 'does not by itself change any journey. It does not create a cycle route, improve a crossing or make a pavement accessible.' And I agree with you, Minister. So the question, therefore, we have to answer now is: how are you going to measure achievability and improvement in active travel across Wales? What mechanisms do you have to measure progress for this investment? How are you making sure that what you're saying in this Chamber right now will actually make a difference to the lives of the people of Wales? I would like to remind the Chamber and our audience at home that millions in taxpayer money has been spent on active travel to date. Good intentions are not enough. Wales needs results. Between 2018 and 2024, Welsh Governments have spent £324 million on active travel. We're entitled to ask what we got for that investment. Are our communities healthier? Are we using the systems more? Are wide pavements enough of an investment that we can feedback to our communities as some kind of success? Cycle rates are the same. Rates of walking have actually fallen since before the pandemic. So, I would argue that £324 million has not been invested wisely. Minister, while previous Governments are directly responsible for failure, you are now in Government and in charge of public funds. How much public money has Plaid Cymru spent on active travel since entering Government? How are you ensuring that we aren't wasting money on a purely ideological plan to get people out of their cars and onto pavements? People need that freedom of choice. This is behaviour change that will not happen overnight. We need to understand and work with communities that are affected. The reports by Audit Wales have made this very clear. Why is this Government so intent on wasting millions and millions of taxpayer money on projects such as widening paths when they're not required and not used? You could argue about schemes such as tree planting in Uganda, beekeepers, and who knows what other schemes have been spent on over the past few years, but taxpayers deserve to know where their money is going. This statement today is about more than active travel. It's about a class of politicians that are stuck in the bay. We don't see what's going on in our communities. It's important that we keep our heads up and understand that we are spending taxpayers' money, and they deserve to know how that's being spent. We need to make sure that we get our priorities straight. The people of Wales are embarrassed by spending so much money and not having the benefit for it. I'll end with one final question, and I'm, unusually, under time so I'm going to take it slowly: how are you working with councils to improve the effectiveness of active travel spending and deliver the most value for money possible for Welsh taxpayers? Thank you. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785469 439 En 2026-11-10T19:49:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22773&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Diolch, Jason. I welcome this newfound consensus that we're building, to a point—to a point—because I think, halfway through there, you lost the fact that we are talking about active travel, which is the important thing. You made some really important points, and I'm glad you made them. The whole point of this guidance is to make sure that we can make our spaces more accessible for everybody. This is one of the things where we've failed previously to take a real interest in those people who find it inaccessible at the moment, and this, I think, changes that. But the point being made about how this is a piece of paper at a moment and how you turn that into reality is probably where I am with this as well. For that matter, I think that one of the things we've got a focus on is not necessarily putting down more assets, so not about building new cycle paths, but encouraging people to use them. Hopefully, in the statement, you recognise that we're talking about how to get people, for example, on transport networks. We know that people need to walk to a station to use the train. Sometimes those routes to the station aren't safe—they're encouraging people to walk through places that don't work for them, don't work for their wheelchair. These are the opportunities where we can make a real difference. In terms of measurement, measurement's really important, and I think you referenced the Audit Wales report. My key reflection from that Audit Wales report is that we didn't have the data to know whether we did a good thing or not. So, although there's been a reduction in walking since the pandemic, what we're doing now is making sure we measure it properly. In the first meeting that we had together, I pointed you to the national travel survey, which is about to be re-released. I'd encourage all Members to take advantage of that national travel survey when it comes out, because that gives you real data that we can use as to how people need to use these assets that we're making. I'm also—. And the guidance is very clear as well about making sure that we are spending public money wisely. I think part of this is about making sure that it's integrated between one form and another. This is just a part of the transport network. It's really important. I think it makes a real difference when we start to talk about people engaging with placemaking—so these routes will walk through real places that people live and work in every day. Your last point about working with councils is critical to this, and I referenced that corporate joint committees are currently putting together their bids for the regional transport fund, which includes active travel. We're looking forward to seeing those being things that integrate these parts and take advantage of this document. All Members would have been sent the 300-page document earlier today, so I hope you've all read it like I have. Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785475 440 En 2026-11-10T19:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22802&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785484 441 En 2026-11-10T19:52:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=22952&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 5107 5107 Vikki Howells https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5107 Howells, Vikki Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement here this evening. Before I address your statement on the updated active travel guidance, and with your indulgence, Dirprwy Lywydd, I just want to welcome your recent announcement on boosting female representation in the Welsh transport sector and the £7 million bus services support grant plus scheme. It's really great to see this Government's support for flagship Welsh Labour policies to promote equal opportunities, employment in the transport sector and the radical improvement of access to bus services as well. I know that temporary bus grant will help protect the affordability of and access to bus services promoted by the last Labour Government. Now, turning to your statement, you'll be pleased to hear that I welcome the statement, which implements, of course, the review of and the subsequent consultation on the active travel guidance between November 2025 and February 2026 undertaken on the watch of the previous Government. Welsh Labour shaped this Government's vision for active travel to encourage people to make more everyday journeys by walking, wheeling and cycling. Of course, greater take-up of active travel will make Wales healthier by encouraging people to take more exercise, reducing car journeys and associated pollution, and make Wales greener by reducing carbon emissions from car journeys, and also better connected by developing those dedicated walking, cycling and wheeling routes. The consultation flagged concerns about making the built environment and pavements more sensitive to the needs of women, those with poor eyesight and other disabilities. I think this new guidance improves the original guidance by seeking to improve safety for walkers and wheelers in particular, particularly that recommendation of separating walking and wheeling routes from cycling routes. It incorporates the lived experience of those with accessibility needs who I've met in recent months who've shared their views with me. So, I do welcome the broader definition of active travel to integrate with public transport and take greater account of the needs of walkers, wheelers and those with buggies. I welcome the opportunity provided by investment in active travel infrastructure to improve place, enabling renewal of town-centre schemes where active travel schemes are implemented. I also welcome how the guidance addresses concerns around island bus stops and e-bikes as well. These improvements, allied to the improved safety of our 20 mph roads, will make active travel a safer and more attractive option in the transport mix, and while good policy is, of course, always welcome, it wouldn't be much good without the resources to implement it, so a key driver of the policy was to delegate implementation of active travel improvements to local authorities through the regional transport planning process and its associated grant regime. So, I will just end, Minister, by seeking some assurances from you—firstly, that you will retain the resourcing of regional transport grants that will enable the continued improvement of active travel infrastructure, and, secondly, that you'll maintain the local leadership of how and where to invest in active travel infrastructure, so that it is always relevant and sensitive to local need and travel patterns. But, other than that, thank you for implementing and maintaining one of our best policies. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785510 442 En 2026-11-10T19:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23102&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785518 443 En 2026-11-10T19:56:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23167&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785519 444 En 2026-11-10T19:56:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23167&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785523 445 En 2026-11-10T19:56:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23167&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785524 446 En 2026-11-10T19:56:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23167&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785515 447 En 2026-11-10T19:56:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23166&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Diolch yn fawr, Vikki; that was great. I think the key thing that came out of this particular exercise is the amount of listening that needed to take place. The point that I made in the statement is that the guidance actually changed 200 times substantively because of what people said. So, this isn't just a listening exercise that became a tick box; this is about actively listening and taking advantage of lived experience, and that, I think, has shaped something that is a point in time now. What I have said to officials is that I think this will improve as we go forward as well. But, going back to the point I was making with Jason earlier, one of the things that this makes sure we do get right is that we put in the investment without having to reinvest, and changing things afterwards. I think there have been too many times where we've had to revise what's there because it isn't good enough, and, by listening properly, we won't be doing that. To your main question that you asked, I'm very supportive of the decisions being taken at the lowest possible level, so the level that's closest to where the need is. I think there is an opportunity for the CJCs, frankly, to make sure that they get these things right. They need to be better than they are at the moment, which is the reason why we're trying to connect up those decision makings. But too often I think you end up with a great asset that people may be cycling on, and, the end of it, it doesn't work, and it's about making sure those joined up points work, which probably is one of the reasons why people don't feel comfortable at the moment, because I think if you start off on your cycle or walk you need to know you can finish your journey, and that's the critical thing in it. But, broadly, thank you for your support for the guidance. I think it is a good piece of work, and I appreciate your words. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785526 448 En 2026-11-10T19:57:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23277&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 212 212 Janet Finch-Saunders https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=212 Finch-Saunders, Janet Can I just say how well your Welsh is coming along too? I think I'll have to— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785528 449 Cy 2026-11-10T19:58:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23282&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark And you too. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785530 450 En 2026-11-10T19:58:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23284&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 212 212 Janet Finch-Saunders https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=212 Finch-Saunders, Janet [Laughter.] Right, moving on. Thank you for your statement. No—diolch yn fawr for your statement. I actually rolled my eyes when I saw it come through on the agenda, but, when I read the statement itself, there's a lot of good stuff in there, and I can see the shift change from the previous Welsh Labour Government, because there was an over-obsession on active travel meaning cycling, building active travel routes just concentrating mainly on cyclists. Now we know, don't we, that 52 per cent of people walk for active travel at least once a week, 7 per cent of people cycle for active travel once a week, 50 per cent of our primary schoolchildren and 33 per cent of secondary schoolchildren undertake active travel on a daily basis to go to school. Now, as I've said, and it's been repeated here today, £324 million on active travel. I actually put a freedom of information request in last term—there'd been no per cent increase in actual use of these cycle tracks, so it was clear that the focus had to change. Now, I'm all for this walking, wheeling and cycling, which is great if you are able-bodied, but I have a lot of people in my constituency, mothers with pushchairs, people in wheelchairs, and, frankly, our pavements, we have potholes in our pavements, and we also have issues with people not being able to use our pavements because of the money that needs spending on them. Then significant spending on the 20 mph project, which actually led to bus companies highlighting that their journeys have become slower since the introduction of the speed limit, with some noting the impact that this has on their punctuality. And if people, particularly people who are disabled, make it to the bus stop, that bus needs to be there.  Most of us are keen to see people become more active, but there is so much, Mark, that needs to be done to ensure that active travel becomes practical and workable. I am particularly concerned about conditions in our rural parts, where schoolchildren, if they are outside that catchment area, are often walking on really unsuitable surfaces, in poorly lit areas, and parents inevitably think, 'Well, we will have to take them to school.' So, that needs to be looked at in the main as well. Some roads are poorly lit, creating significant safety concerns. Some schools do not even have a pavement along the country roads leading to them. There must be meaningful changes to the active travel strategy to ensure that our roads have adequate lighting and pavements, enabling more children to be able to walk safely to school. But really, I'm going to throw you the gauntlet now. Where pavements are provided, they can be of little use as part of an active travel route, if they are being blocked by parked cars. Now previously, under the Welsh Labour Government, propped up by Plaid Cymru, Ken Skates and Mark Drakeford actually promised us that they would bring a ban in, and follow the UK Government to bring in a ban on pavement parking. They did a u-turn. I would ask you now: will you look at working with our group, and other groups who are interested, and look at banning pavement parking? It is dangerous; it is dangerous to people who are partially sighted. It often happens on these estates—new estates, new housing developments—where there are not enough parking spaces and people prefer to park on the pavements, and it should not be allowed. It's as simple as that. How can we expect people to walk more and use more active forms of travel when there are these physical obstructions? While active travel encourages people to walk and cycle more, a strong and reliable public transport service also plays an important role. And again, if you work in the Conwy valley, you cannot get a bus after five o'clock to the Conwy valley or back. And it's the same with the trains. So, you need to be making part of your active travel agenda more user-friendly transport, and make sure that we have the introduction of more buses at times that are more suitable. There are some serious challenges when it comes to ensuring that our public transport systems are reliable and resilient. As you've outlined, we must also ensure that all groups of society are considered in the active travel route, as for everyone, and especially neurodivergent people who can find changes in travel or significant cancellations stressful. And that is never taken account of when we have delayed trains, when we have delays, or buses not turning up—it is really difficult for people with neurodivergent issues. Will you work to ensure that our roads, our paths, and our public transport network are all considered, and actually look at reviewing how you can make those aspects better? Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785466 451 En 2026-11-10T20:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23402&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785470 452 Cy 2026-11-10T20:03:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23612&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Thank you for the question, Janet. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785471 453 En 2026-11-10T20:03:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23615&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark I appreciate the—. You've clearly read the whole—. Because almost everything you talked about then is stuff that is in this guidance. So, when you talked about making sure that we were focused on people pushing their pushchairs, wheelchair users, about pavements not being effective enough, those are all things that are within that guidance. So, you clearly have gone through this with a fine-toothed comb, which I support. I also think the point about neurodivergent people, which again I reflected in my statement, is really important because the changing circumstances can be really overwhelming, and I think that's one of the elements that's in this document here. I'll focus on the main gauntlet that you threw at me, if you don't mind. And I think there's starting to be some real cross-Siambr agreement on the requirement to solve the issues around pavement parking. A number of Members have written to me about this since I've been in office. It's probably the biggest single thing that people have written to me about. And it is one of the first things I did on coming into office; I said that I want to tackle pavement parking. I think we need to make sure that we get it right as well. And we're in a place now—whereas I think, in previous administrations, they would have been the first out of the traps on it—where we are lagging behind some of the other countries in the UK. It is important that we get on with it. I've got my officials working on it now and I'd be looking for cross-Siambr support on that to make sure that we, not only get it right, but that it becomes effective and that we give the power, I think, to the local authorities to make the right decisions for them. But thank you for your support for the statement, it is appreciated. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785502 454 En 2026-11-10T20:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23702&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785504 455 En 2026-11-10T20:05:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23711&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12176 12176 Paul Rock https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12176 Rock, Paul I welcome the Deputy Minister's statement and the refreshed guidance. Promoting opportunities and facilities for active travel is vital for helping to create welcoming, healthy, vibrant communities where people want to live. The benefits are almost too numerous to mention. Supporting safe, accessible walking, wheeling and cycling helps promote physical and mental well-being, helps to ease congestion on our roads and helps younger and older people to achieve independence. However, the proliferation of badly sited pavement furniture—and I think I'd call out mobile phone cabinets in particular there—pavement parking, uneven surfaces too, can really, really discourage people. It can make it impossible actually, especially for the old and the disabled. So, how will the Minister hold local authorities and corporate joint committees to account to ensure they follow the Welsh Government guidance to deliver and maintain safe, accessible travel routes that work for everyone? I'll stop there.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785509 456 En 2026-11-10T20:06:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23779&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Thank you, Paul, and I hope you picked up in the statement as well that we talked about improving the governance and transparency of this guidance. So, it's an important element of it. So, not only is it giving suggestions about how people might be able to improve the routes that they use but whose benefit they're for as well, because a lot of the things that most people are talking about are making them more accessible for everyone, for all, as well. Because a cabinet for a mobile phone operator may make it difficult for a wheelchair user, but it also makes it difficult for someone who is partially sighted. It also makes it difficult for somebody who is elderly. These are things that we can make a difference on that will benefit more people over the long term as well.  But in terms of monitoring and ensuring that we're following the guidance, the decision logs that have been put into this guidance are really important. They aren't things that are just, 'You have to follow this answer to get to that solution.' We're asking professionals to use their judgment, based on local circumstances, to make it right, because what is needed in rural Wales will be quite different to what is needed in your constituency. So, it's making it right for the right place. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785514 457 En 2026-11-10T20:07:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23850&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12173 12173 Nick Carter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12173 Carter, Nick I, too, welcome the Deputy Cabinet Minister's commitment to put active travel at the heart of Wales's transport system and to provide clear guidance to local authorities setting out priorities and expected outcomes. As Jason and Janet have already pointed out, the previous Welsh Government invested hundreds of millions of pounds in active travel, but weekly cycling for travel has barely moved and walking for travel has fallen. Audit Wales has found that targets were set without baseline data and infrastructure investment was not matched by enough work on awareness and behaviour change. Our public accounts committee has reported painfully slow progress on active travel, and that the 2040 target of 45 per cent sustainable journeys may be out of reach. Although the recommendations of their report were accepted in principle by the previous Government, this has meant little in practice. In Cardiff, the Labour-led council has spent £42 million on cycling schemes and £27 million on walking schemes since 2018, including nearly £5 million on a 560m cycleway through the grade I listed Roath recreation ground, but journeys by bike and on foot in the city have actually declined. What steps can the Welsh Government take to ensure spending on active travel is targeted at initiatives that both increase participation and provide value for money? Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785516 458 Cy 2026-11-10T20:08:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23926&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Thank you for the question, Nick. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785517 459 En 2026-11-10T20:08:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=23928&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark I think that there are two parts to that. I think that one part is making sure that this guidance is out there. So, actually setting the tone as to what's important makes a real difference as a starting point, because what we want is for local authorities to be able to pick this up and see this as a living document to help them to make the right decisions. So, it has already started to change the hierarchy. You talked about Cardiff, and Cardiff is one of the places that had issues with people getting off their bus into a live cycle path. These are things where the concerns that were raised there stopped people who are partially sighted actually using the bus. So, we really get things wrong when we make mistakes like that. And the fact that we then need to go and do them again and make good what went wrong is hugely expensive. And I think some of the things that we've made mistakes on before have been really expensive mistakes. In terms of making sure we spend our money wisely, it's about making sure we use the data. So, I referenced the point that we've got the national travel survey that's going to be coming out again in the coming weeks. I'd urge people to look at that. That's our base point. That gives you a starting point as to where we're going to go from. I've been keen—. What I've been doing across my portfolio is to make sure that we're focused on the data. So, we'll be following the data to make the right decisions. But I'd also encourage corporate joint committees, who are putting together these funds as well, to utilise data in that fund making. And I think the point that I was making to Vikki earlier as well is making sure that we connect up those parts of pieces of work that currently aren't connected—the final bits of the railway station, the bits and pieces that Janet referenced earlier as well. Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785512 460 En 2026-11-10T20:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24002&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785513 461 En 2026-11-10T20:10:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24034&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12188 12188 Claire Johnson-Wood https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12188 Johnson-Wood, Claire So, Deputy Minister, Reform welcomes any genuine effort to improve safety and accessibility, but this updated active travel Act guidance is another example of Cardiff Bay ideology being imposed on communities across Wales that simply do not live that way.  In Gwynedd Maldwyn, and across Wales, people rely on their cars. Distances are long, public transport is thin, and weather and the terrain make walking and cycling impractical on an everyday basis, whether for work, school runs or simply supporting local businesses and going to the shops. Yet the guidance continues to prioritise walking, wheeling and cycling as if it's a default for everyone, which it is not. Local authorities are expected to divert scarce resources into schemes that serve a minority, especially in our rural areas of Wales.  We already have the damaging 20 mph default, business rates that hit hospitality and tourism harder in Wales, and the visitor levy that will make our vital tourism sector less competitive. This guidance adds more cost, more bureaucracy, and more pressure on councils without addressing the real barriers that people face. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785529 462 En 2026-11-10T20:11:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24115&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can we have the question, please, Claire? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785531 463 En 2026-11-10T20:11:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24116&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12188 12188 Claire Johnson-Wood https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12188 Johnson-Wood, Claire Okay, sorry. So, in rural constituencies like Gwynedd Maldwyn, distances are long, as I've said; I've said about the—. Sorry, I'm cutting it down now. Pouring tens of millions of pounds into walking, wheeling and cycling schemes, but the A55 needs proper upgrades, and the A470— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785532 464 En 2026-11-10T20:12:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24134&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Sorry, Claire, can we have the question? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785533 465 En 2026-11-10T20:12:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24135&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12188 12188 Claire Johnson-Wood https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12188 Johnson-Wood, Claire Yes, okay. So, Reform will prioritise connectivity, reliability, and the people—[Interruption.] Sorry, excuse me, I'm just getting to it in a second. So, I ask: how many more millions will the Welsh Government waste on schemes that most of rural Wales will never use, while the roads my constituents actually depend on continue to fail and fall apart? [Interruption.] Do you want me to read the question again? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785534 466 En 2026-11-10T20:12:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24167&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark No, I got the question. This is a debate about active travel guidance, but it's interesting that you didn't want to talk about that. The 'but' was a real shame, because the first bit of your statement was really good. You welcomed changes to active travel that will make things easier for people. This is exactly what this guidance does. [Interruption.] To be fair, you've had over two minutes to speak. You didn't get— 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785536 467 En 2026-11-10T20:13:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24188&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Sorry, can you let the Minister answer? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785537 468 En 2026-11-10T20:13:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24190&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark You didn't get your question out, so I'm going to answer this in the way that I feel is appropriate.  You also referenced 20 mph. This gives me the chance to say again: collisions on 20 mph and 30 mph roads are 43 per cent lower than before that policy was changed. That means—[Interruption.] Claire, you've had your chance. That means we've got young people who are less likely to die on our roads. That makes those roads easier for people to get around, whichever way they want to do it. So, your wasting money is my saving lives. There's a huge difference. And I think that exemplifies the difference between this Government and the people who are behind me.  The other thing that is really important—and had you listened to my statement, you wouldn't even have asked the question in the way that you did—is that this guidance is designed to be appropriate for those different areas of Wales. This is not a one-size-fits-all guidance. We have listened really carefully to people, and I suggest you do the same. That would be a lot easier and make your life a lot easier.  16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785539 469 En 2026-11-10T20:14:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24253&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah Deputy Minister, as someone who could only afford to learn to drive in my 30s, I'm well versed in active travel as a necessity. Like many constituents, I've struggled on and off trains with a pram or a wheelchair. I've often found myself taking my car rather than relying on the kindness of strangers, or those I'm travelling with, to help me on and off. Constituents tell me that they struggle to use buses because not all buses, bus stops and pavements are accessible. Overcrowding and noise can make public transport nigh on impossible for someone neurodivergent to use, whilst women avoid travelling at night because poorly lit spaces and lack of staff can make journeys simply unsafe. And whilst some people can fall back on using a car when public transport doesn't meet their needs, that's a luxury that many people experiencing poverty simply don't have.  If we're serious about reducing carbon emissions, what steps are you taking to ensure that transport infrastructure and decision making are designed inclusively from the outset rather than retrofitted? 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785503 470 En 2026-11-10T20:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24302&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785535 471 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785542 472 Cy 2026-11-10T20:18:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24517&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785543 473 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785544 474 Cy 2026-11-10T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=-48598&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785505 475 En 2026-11-10T20:15:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24309&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Thanks for the question. This talks to why this guidance is here and why it's been done in the way that it has. I think it also talks back to the point I made that there was a lot of listening that went into it to make the changes. I think you'd struggle to find a Welsh Government policy that was changed 200 times because of what people said. That shows there's a real, genuine interest in understanding people with lived experience and how they use the transport network. So, a woman with a pushchair and a baby unable to access—that's included in this guidance. You've got people who are neurodivergent trying to make their way through a transport system that's not been designed for them—that's in this guidance. All of these elements are covered in this guidance, because we recognise how important it is. The key, though—and this is something where I think we're going to start moving on from where the previous administration was—is about connecting the public transport links. I think that's really important, because it's clear that people need to walk to a station, walk back from a station, and need to cycle on, or whatever it is, to their place of work. That's the critical next step. Again, that's included in this guidance. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785520 476 Cy 2026-11-10T20:16:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24382&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Thank you for the question. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785521 477 Cy 2026-11-10T20:16:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24383&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry And finally, Gareth Beer. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785522 478 En 2026-11-10T20:16:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24386&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 8650 8650 Gareth Beer https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8650 Beer, Gareth Deputy Minister, the active travel Act has been with us since 2013, and £334 million has been spent. So I think we should be asking a very simple question: has it actually resulted in more people choosing active travel? In Carmarthenshire, for example, just 0.6 per cent of people commute by bicycle, compared with 62 per cent by car. We must recognise the county's rural nature. People often travel considerable distances to work in Carmarthenshire, many roads are narrow, and the cycle network is not sufficiently connected, plus the weather, plus the hills. My constituents tell me what would encourage them, though, is well-maintained footpaths, cycleways kept clear of vegetation and broken glass, that safely connect them to where they want to go. Connectivity is important, which I encourage, but it's also important to my constituency that we make sure the routes we already have are properly maintained and genuinely usable. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785593 479 Cy 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance I The Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) took the Chair. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785525 480 En 2026-11-10T20:17:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24448&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 4822 4822 Mark Hooper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4822 Hooper, Mark Thank you for the question, Gareth. I think the points you're making about different communities being different are really important. What suits the centre of Cardiff won't suit rural Carmarthenshire. These are the differences that we're reflecting in this guidance, which is the important part of it. I also take your point about making sure local authorities can keep routes clear. That's really important as well. That's a challenge. We live in challenging financial times, so we can put pressure on them to help make the right decisions. The last thing, though, I would say, and I think this is something where I feel like I'm on repeat a little bit, but it's about making sure where we find those—. We all know ways of making active travel better. I think what's happened is we've had a situation where we've spent money on it previously, and a lot of the assets have been good assets, but it feels like they haven't been connected sufficiently to one another. And that's the opportunity we've got now, because people need to believe they can finish a journey, not just be on a great cycle path in the middle of it, because the start and the end aren't good enough. So, I think that's the critical thing. But thank you for the question. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785527 481 Cy 2026-11-10T20:18:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24516&l=en 261110-10 9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Shaping Healthier Greener, Better-Connected Communities—Updated Active Travel Act Guidance C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you very much. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785545 482 Cy 2026-11-10T20:18:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24518&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We will move now to our final item, item 10, a debate on remembrance. The motion has been tabled jointly by Heledd Fychan, Paul Davies, Lynne Neagle, Jane Dodds, Llŷr Powell and Paul Rock. I now call on the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality to move the motion—Sioned Williams. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785546 483 Cy 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance I Motion NDM9348 Heledd Fychan, Paul Davies, Lynne Neagle, Jane Dodds, Llŷr Powell, Paul Rock, Anthony Slaughter To propose that the Senedd: 1. Recognises the enduring importance of the Remembrance period to families and communities in Wales. 2. Pays tribute to the service and sacrifice of individuals from across Wales who now serve or have served in our armed forces. 3. Acknowledges the tireless work of organisations, individuals and volunteers who support our armed forces community and veterans across Wales. 4. Supports the need to endeavour to reach a peaceful solution to every conflict and bring an end to war. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785547 484 Cy 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance I Motion moved. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785548 485 Cy 2026-11-10T20:19:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24543&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality Williams, Sioned Thank you, Llywydd, and I move the motion. The remembrance period is one of the most solemn events in our national calendar, a time to remember those from Wales and beyond who lost their lives in war and conflict, and to reflect on the devastating and lasting impact that conflict has on individuals, families and communities. During one of the darkest times of the last century, the poet Waldo Williams wrote about y tangnefeddwyr, the peacekeepers. As we remember those who served, those who suffered, and those who died, his words remind us that the purpose of remembrance is not only to reflect on war, but to strengthen our commitment to peace: 'Brotherhood is the mission of man.' We remember those who served in our armed forces with courage and commitment, often in circumstances that most of us can barely imagine. This is the time to remember those who serve in the armed forces, in the past and today, in two world wars and numerous other conflicts. One hundred and ten years ago in Mametz Wood, the 38th (Welsh) Division suffered terrible losses. Four thousand soldiers died in five days. 'The wasted young', as described by the poet Owen Sheers. The warnings sounded by poets like Wilfred Owen and Hedd Wyn went unheard, but the cry of the boys still resonates in our time. Thirty-five years ago, we saw the first Gulf war, and this year marks 15 years since the end of UK operations in Iraq after the second Gulf war in 2003, where a more recent generation of Welsh veterans served and paid a high price for war. We remember those who returned with physical and psychological wounds that stayed with them long after the fighting ended. We also remember those who are serving today and their families. Warfare is evolving quickly and in worryingly new ways, creating new dangers for the lives of our armed forces and civilians. But remembrance also means looking beyond the armed forces. War doesn't only affect those in uniform. Across the generations and around the world, ordinary people have suffered the terrible consequences of conflict: families displaced from their homes, communities destroyed, families torn apart, children deprived of safety, education and opportunities, and countless lives lost. As we remember those who served to defend freedom, we also honour their sacrifice and service by striving to be a nation that offers dignity, compassion and sanctuary to those displaced by conflict. We think of those living with us in Wales today from Ukraine and other countries, where conflict continues, and the anxiety that that causes. While remembering, we must also be firm in our opposition to what can lead to war, whether that stems from imperialism, ideology or treating nations or peoples as inferior or unjustly. So, as we remember, we need to do more than just look back; we need to learn. We need to ask difficult questions about how conflict starts, about the human consequences of violence and about our responsibility to pursue other peaceful choices wherever possible. We continue to support the peace academy as they promote discussions about peace from a Welsh perspective. This included their annual lecture at the Llangollen international eisteddfod to celebrate the centenary of the women's peace march across the UK, in which women from all over Wales played a leading role. In 1926, thousands of Welsh women left their homes in communities across Wales to march for peace, not war. Their journey from places like Penygroes, Swansea and Cardiff to London showed that Wales has a deep-rooted commitment to peace, shaped not just by political leaders but also by ordinary women who were determined that future generations should not have to suffer the atrocities of war. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785474 486 Cy 2026-11-10T20:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24602&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785480 487 En 2026-11-10T20:24:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24848&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned As a nation, Wales has a proud tradition of international solidarity, of community and of seeking peaceful solutions to disputes. Every year since 1922, there has been an annual peace message at the National Eisteddfod from our youngest generation. It provides a platform for the next generation to share what matters to them and to influence their future. Over the years, themes have included the atomic bomb, refugees, poverty, war, violence and global warming. These values are not in tension with our respect for those who serve. Rather, they help explain why that service matters. The highest purpose of defence is not conflict itself, but the protection of people, democracy and peace. That is why we must continue to uphold the principles of human rights, international law and ethical conduct as it applies to conflict. These principles are not optional extras. They are safeguards for our shared humanity, particularly when that humanity is under the greatest strain. Today, we remember, across the different parties represented here, those who served, including those Members of the Senedd here with us today. We remember those who suffered. We remember those who never came home. One of the privileges and responsibilities of having a voice in this Senedd is being able to bring testimony and stories from different parts of Wales to inform this debate. I look forward to Members contributing in that vein. We renew our commitment to building a future in which disputes are resolved through dialogue rather than violence, co-operation rather than division, words rather than weapons, peace rather than war. In Wales, we have a legal duty to consider the well-being of future generations. Let's work for a future that sees our young people remember war as a feature of the past, as remembrance, as a dire warning heeded that there should be no more sacrifice required. Together, we remember the unacceptable price of war and promise the soldiers and families who have paid this high price, and our future generations, that we will do everything in our power to create and sustain peace in our world. Our programme for government commitment sets out clearly our intentions that we support the principles of the armed forces covenant and that we want to strengthen how such support is provided across our services. We maintain the commitment to support the armed forces community in Wales through our armed forces liaison officers, Veterans' NHS Wales and Supporting Service Children in Education Cymru. Moving forward, I'm looking forward to the Wales armed forces covenant conference that we are jointly sponsoring later this month. The conference will provide an opportunity to look back with partners from across the armed forces community at what has been achieved through the armed forces covenant since its introduction in 2022, and, importantly, challenge ourselves about what more we can do to uphold the armed forces covenant. This motion also calls on us to remember those who work so hard to support the armed forces community—organisations, individuals and volunteers. I attended an inspiring Royal British Legion festival of remembrance, and I put my thanks on record for the work that they do, through their many volunteers, to support the annual poppy appeal. Words are important, but I recognise the importance of action. So, in taking forward our programme for government commitment to the armed forces covenant and to veterans, having processes in place to support due regard to the covenant is key. There will be a new emphasis across this Government in looking at policy through that lens. To help prepare for this, I will be taking a paper on the armed forces covenant to Cabinet later this month, and I look forward to bringing together an expert group to consider the needs of the armed forces community in Wales in early December. The programme for government commitment is a cross-Government one and where there are opportunities to respond to need. Llywydd, in conclusion, let us honour memory not only through words, but through the choices we make today, supporting those who have served, standing alongside those affected by conflict, and working tirelessly for a world in which peace is secured through dialogue, co-operation and mutual respect. That is the responsibility remembrance places upon us, and it is one that this Government is committed to fulfilling. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785458 488 En 2026-11-10T20:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=24902&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785467 489 En 2026-11-10T20:28:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=25137&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz First, I'd like to thank the Deputy First Minister, and I'd also ask if I could be a part of that group when you form it, if that's possible. As a veteran, I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak in support of this debate. War memorials across Wales, from the plaque on the chapel wall to the Welsh national war memorial in Cathays Park, are carved with the names of those who left our cities, towns and villages and never came home. Every one of those names belonged to someone—a loved one, a neighbour, a friend. That is what remembrance means in Wales. It's a promise handed from one generation to the next: we will remember them. Wales has a military history of which every one of us can be proud. The Royal Welch Fusiliers, founded in 1689, are among the oldest regiments in the British army. In 1915, the Welsh Guards were formed, and on St David's Day that year, they mounted their first King's Guard. At Rorke's Drift, in 1879, men of the 24th Regiment of Foot, later known as the South Wales Borderers, held their ground against overwhelming odds, and seven of them were awarded the Victoria Cross. The first world war asked more of Wales than any conflict before it. At Mametz Wood in the Somme, in July 1916, as has already been mentioned, the 38th (Welsh) Division took the wood, but nearly 4,000 of its men were killed or wounded. A red dragon stands there today in their memory. In the second world war, the 53rd (Welsh) Division fought through Normandy and north-west Europe. That proud tradition of military service did not end in 1945. Across almost four decades of Operation Banner in Northern Ireland, soldiers from the Welsh regiments served tour after tour, often in the most dangerous of circumstances, and were the targets of terrorist atrocities. In 1982, the Welsh Guards suffered grievous losses aboard the Sir Galahad, a loss still felt by many families in Wales. From Korea to the Balkans, from Iraq to Afghanistan, men and women from every corner of Wales have served. Today, there are three Welsh regiments: the Royal Welsh, the Welsh Guards and the Queen's Dragoon Guards. Welsh men and women across the Royal Navy, the army and the Royal Air Force continue to defend our country and represent our nation. As an army veteran, I know that service is shared not only by those in uniform, but by the families who wait for them, support them, and, too often, grieve them. Remembrance is for them too, and for those who came home carrying wounds and scars, both visible and hidden. This is why this debate rightly thanks those who support our armed forces and community: the Royal British Legion, whose poppy appeal is carried through our streets each November; Blesma; SSAFA; Help for Heroes; Blind Veterans UK; regimental associations; Veterans' NHS Wales, which I'm proud to have volunteered for; and countless local groups who serve and who make sure that no veteran is forgotten. Today, the Senedd thanks them. Could I also add that those who served in the police, the fire brigade, the NHS and other blue-light services also deserve our deepest respect for all they did then and now? Tomorrow, across Wales, the words of Laurence Binyon will be spoken once more: 'At the going down of the sun and in the morning / We will remember them.' Let the Senedd say with one voice that we will remember them. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785499 490 En 2026-11-10T20:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=25202&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785540 491 En 2026-11-10T20:33:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=25397&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken Can I begin by thanking Members across the Chamber for bringing forward this debate? Every remembrance, I'm proud to join in paying tribute to all those who have served and who continue to serve in our armed forces, to honour the courage and sacrifice of armed forces personnel, and to think of the families and the communities left behind. It is also an important opportunity to recognise the contribution of the organisations, charities and volunteers who support veterans and their families across Wales. Their work makes a real difference to people's lives. They deserve our thanks and recognition. Across Wales, families and communities came together on Remembrance Sunday to pause, reflect and pay their respects. I was honoured to lay wreaths at services in Flint and Wrexham on Sunday. Both services were phenomenally well attended, showing the enduring importance of remembrance to our communities and the deep respect and gratitude families in Wales feel for those who have served our country. Like many others across the Siambr, remembrance is deeply personal to me. I was proud to be part of the officers' training corps when I was younger, an experience that gave me a real appreciation of the commitment and dedication required for those who serve. It taught me vital skills, as well as the importance of discipline, routine, teamwork and the responsibility we have to look out for one another. Around 30 years ago, I also had the opportunity to spend time with the Welsh Dragoon Guards at the British Army Training Unit Suffield, otherwise known as BATUS, in Canada. Many of the personnel I spent time with there subsequently went on to serve in Afghanistan and Iraq, and every year at this time I reflect on those who never returned home from those conflicts. I also reflect on the tragedy of the Sir Galahad during the Falklands war, when so many members of the Welsh Guards lost their lives. One of those brave men was the relative of a high-school friend. Llywydd, the importance of remembrance remains undiminished to families across Wales, and I am grateful that we have this opportunity today to unite across the Siambr and to reflect on the sacrifices made by those who served our country. We will remember them. Diolch.   16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785457 492 En 2026-11-10T20:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=25502&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785459 493 En 2026-11-10T20:35:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=25547&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Can I put on record my interest as a board member of the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association for Wales? I do welcome the fact that this is a debate that has been tabled on a cross-party basis in Remembrance Week. And I was thinking while I was sat listening to the contributions that have been made so far of a very dear friend of mine who served on the town council in Towyn and Kinmel Bay in my younger years, just setting out in politics. His name was Ron Hastings, and he was an RAF veteran who'd been on Lancaster bombers during the war as a gunner and a radio commander. He passed away last year, aged 96, after a very rich and rewarding life and of service to his country, both in the military and in civilian life, as well as a local community councillor over many years. And I know that there are many veterans out there, but there are not that many now from the second world war. It's really important that we put on record their stories to make sure that we really do never forget their service and the sacrifices that they made. Because we know that in 1940, Britain faced the very real prospect of defeat in world war two, an invasion by one of the most evil ideologies the world has ever known. There were those, including those in our own country, unfortunately, who argued that Britain should surrender. There were those who thought that appeasement was the right path. Others believed that we should never have taken up arms against the Nazis. But thank God that millions of courageous men and women thought otherwise. Because it's due to their willingness to fight and, if necessary, to make that ultimate sacrifice, as so many did, to help to save our country, that we can stand in this Chamber today and enjoy the freedom to be able to debate and to disagree without fear of being thrown into prison, being deprived of our liberties, or our life for the values for which we stand. But, of course, we know that that sacrifice that people make for their countries did not end in 1945. In almost every year since, British servicemen and women, including people from Wales, have lost their lives on military operations. So, this week, of course, we remember those who fell in those first and second world wars, but we do also remember, as we've been reminded of already, those who fell combating the communist regimes in Korea and Malaysia, those murdered by terrorists in Northern Ireland, those who confronted the Argentine dictatorship in the Falklands, those who fought regimes and extremism in Afghanistan and Iraq, and those who lost their lives defending freedom and democracy elsewhere. We do remember their families too, those long and enduring separations, the fear of people not returning home. And of course, we are reminded also that our responsibility to those who serve does not end when they leave their military service. We've already put on record in this Chamber our thanks to the Royal British Legion, SSAFA, Blesma, all of the other organisations that work so hard to serve our veteran community. We must play our part too, upholding that armed forces covenant, making sure that we do our bit to make sure that Wales is a veteran-friendly nation, one where people's contribution to our armed forces is properly honoured and recognised. That's why we must all work together, putting our party politics to one side, to make sure that our veterans get the highest possible priority when it comes to addressing the homelessness that still, shamefully, we see on our streets amongst the veteran community; to make sure that Veterans' NHS Wales continues to get the resources that it needs—and it's wonderful to hear of your role in supporting Veterans' NHS Wales today; to make sure that those individuals with poor mental health also get the peer mentoring support from the charities that are out there, supporting the other health professionals that they engage with in Veterans' NHS Wales; and honouring the memory of the Welsh military and its contribution towards keeping the peace, as the Minister outlined, by having some formal recognition, I believe, in a national military museum for Wales. These are practical things that I think we should all be able to work on together in order to demonstrate our commitment, not just to remembrance, but to our veteran community and the wider armed forces family. We will, of course, remember them today and always. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785463 494 En 2026-11-10T20:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=25802&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785479 495 En 2026-11-10T20:41:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=25876&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn I'm glad we're united on this. I declare an interest: my son serves in the Royal Artillery. The first duty of the state is to keep people safe. Without that, our economy cannot thrive, our schools and hospitals cannot do their work. We owe a great deal to those who keep us safe. War has been around since the dawn of time and will doubtlessly be here at the end. It might even cause the end. It is a sad part of human nature, it seems. On Remembrance Sunday, I attended a service in Pontarddulais, and I heard a reading from the book of Micah that stayed with me. 'And He shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off. And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree, and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.' This is a wondrous future, of course, but until then we rely on our servicemen and women to protect us. But this comes at a terrible price. Those killed in combat are sadly easy to count; less so those who survive but suffer complex PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. This is a real issue. Swansea Veterans Hub, and its leader Wayne Jenkins, are doing such good work in trying to address this life-altering condition among veterans. But The British Journal of Psychiatry indicates that 7.4 per cent of veterans suffer from this PTSD, with another 20 per cent reporting another common mental health disorder—more than a quarter. Eleven per cent report alcohol misuse, according to the Ministry of Defence, compared with 6 per cent in the general population. A study published in The Lancet indicated almost a fifth of those who had served in the UK military had a criminal record, with the largest group being violent offenders, and the odds ratio for this increases with increased exposure to traumatising events experienced during deployment, and subsequent alcohol misuse. All these issues are inextricably tied. Our veterans, who give us the peace to live our lives, pay for it with their own mortality and ongoing morbidity, and we as a society are letting them down. How can we argue that these figures are acceptable? I have not even begun to talk about physical disabilities, for I have no time. Too many of our veterans are being left alone and unsupported after their duties, and suffer as a consequence—a suffering that is passed on to friends, family and society at large. Without help from a multitude of charitable organisations, the names of which we've heard today, things would be so much worse. Swansea Veterans Hub, for example, provides vital support networks, help with financial advice, personal independence payments and DWP forms, and help with a multitude of issues such as housing, employment and mental health support. But as I learnt on Saturday at a ceremony at the Brangwyn Hall, Swansea Veterans Hub, unfortunately, is only aware of 20 per cent of the veterans in our city. Veterans know veterans, as I believe doctors know medicine, nurses know nursing, and teachers best know teaching. Veterans and those who understand military life should help shape and lead the services that veterans rely on. At the moment, these organisations face a Sisyphean task, with difficulties applying for funds, bureaucratic health board processes stymieing access to mental health services, and direction from organisations and people who know much less about our veterans than they do getting in the way of an adequate delivery of services. I ask the Welsh Government to work directly with groups like the Swansea Veterans Hub to listen to veterans about what they need, to make it easier for the people they trust to get them the right care. We have a sacred duty to look after our troops as they have given us so much: the ultimate gift. Micah asks us to imagine a world where no-one makes us afraid. Until that day, we have a duty to those who keep us safe. Let us all commit today, as Senedd Members, to do everything we can to tackle complex PTSD in our troops, and work with all the different Wayne Jenkinses of this world to make it a better place for those who serve. Let's make sure they can count on us when they come home. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785465 496 En 2026-11-10T20:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=26102&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785468 497 En 2026-11-10T20:45:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=26147&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art This time of year is a highly emotional period for our veterans, and many of them will go to a cenotaph with names of their friends upon their lips. I too did that this weekend, as I said goodbye to my two friends, Jamie Rawsthorne and Kevin Thompson, as I do every single year. Military self-sacrifice is the ultimate expression of love, duty and courage. It's found in that soldier who runs towards danger while others seek safety, knowing the risk but refusing to leave a comrade behind. It is measured, not only in lives lost, but in the futures surrendered, the families left waiting and the personal dreams set aside for the greater cause. Their sacrifice is a profound reminder that freedom and security often come at too deeply high a cost, paid by those who are willing to give everything for others. The purpose of my debate—I'm going to try and go on a different angle to where other people have. I want to talk about ultimate sacrifice. Many people in Wales are on this list—in fact, every single one of them is. Born in Carmarthenshire in 1884, Lance Corporal Fuller of the 2nd Battalion, the Welch regiment, displayed remarkable bravery near Chivy-sur-Aisne in France. On 14 September 1914, under intense rifle and machine-gun fire, he reached his mortally wounded commander, Captain Mark Haggard, treated his wounds, lifted him upon his shoulders and carried him 100 yds through fire to the dressing station. Fuller remained by Haggard's side until he died that night. His final words being, 'Stick it Welch'. James Llewellyn Davies, born in Ebbw Vale, Gwent, in 1886. Corporal Davies of the 13th Royal Welch Fusiliers showed extraordinary courage at Polygon Wood. On 13 July 1917, despite being wounded and after several of his men had already fallen, he charged a German machine-gun position alone, killing two enemy soldiers, capturing another and bringing back the gun. He then led an assault on a defended farmhouse being taken to use as a dressing station, where he later died of his wounds. He was 31 years old. Born on 13 January 1887, Ellis Humphrey Evans, better known as Hedd Wyn, was a shepherd, farmer and a celebrated Welsh language poet. He was fatally wounded at Pilckem Ridge on 31 July 1917. During the opening hours of the third battle of Ypres, weeks earlier he had submitted his poem, 'Yr Arwr', to the National Eisteddfod, where it was announced as the winning entry on 6 September 1917. The author failed to answer the customary summons. The audience was told he'd been killed in action, giving rise to the famous Eisteddfod of the black chair. Moving on to world war two, Tasker Watkins, a native of Nelson. Born in 1918, Watkins enlisted in 1939 and was commissioned into the Royal Welsh in 1941. Near Barfleur, Normandy on 16 August 1944, he led a company across booby-trapped fields under intense fire during the battle to close the Falaise gap. With many casualties and as the only officer remaining, he led a bayonet charge, personally silencing a machine-gun post and helped repel the German counter-attack. Aged just 25, he earned his Victoria Cross, the only one awarded to a Welshman in the British army during world war two. He later became a Lord Justice of Appeal and thankfully died an old man in 2007. The South Wales Borderers, D-Day, June 1944: the 2nd Battalion was the only Welsh battalion to land in Normandy on D-Day, coming ashore at Gold Beach with the 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division. It advanced further inland than any British unit and captured more enemy territory than any force on that day. On 6 June 1944, despite its achievements, the battalion suffered just four killed and 20 wounded. A memorial plaque at Asnelles marks its landing site still to this date. Last event, the Suez Maru. On the morning of 29 November 1943, the Japanese hellship Suez Maru, carrying more than 551 sick and starving Allied prisoners of war, 41 of them Welshmen, was torpedoed in the Java sea. Hundreds managed to escape that sinking vessel and cling to rafts, planks and any debris in the water that they could find. They drifted helplessly for hours, exhausted and wounded. Rescue never came. What came instead was a Japanese escort vessel that deliberately opened fire on the survivors in the water, systematically killing the men stranded in the sea over an hour and a half. By nightfall, virtually none remained alive. In a last stand, those who had survived all that time in the water stood on the flotsam and bared their chests to the enemy with defiant chants, each accepting their fate. The silence fell only when no man was left alive. It stands as one of the most shocking atrocities committed.  I know I'm running over time, Llywydd; I'll be quick. This is why I and many others stand by our veterans, not just once a year but every single day. We as a nation owe them a massive debt that in many ways can never be repaid, but we must make the effort. The best of us gave so much, even to the ultimate sacrifice. 'Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.' Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785489 498 En 2026-11-10T20:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=26402&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785495 499 En 2026-11-10T20:52:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=26525&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 12176 12176 Paul Rock https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12176 Rock, Paul My mother grew up during the Blitz. She wrote about walking to school in Essex with the battle of Britain going on overhead. I inherited the shrapnel collection she picked up on the way home. Her father was a conscientious objector and a member of the Auxiliary Fire Service. Every night, he put his life in danger, putting out the fires from incendiary bombs. My father had been a coal miner here in south Wales and then a bricklayer, which meant that, after being conscripted, he was transferred into the Royal Engineers. When we were children, he often told us of his experiences serving in India. I suspect he didn't tell us everything. War is unfortunately not just in the past. I was listening to a radio phone-in recently and a caller implored the listeners to open aerial photos on Google Maps and look for Gaza. I did that and I was shocked at what I saw. I would ask everyone here to do the same. Those Ukrainian friends that we have welcomed to Cymru live in constant fear of terrible news from home and their loved ones. On Sunday, I had the privilege of laying a wreath at the war memorial in Whitchurch in my constituency. The wreath contains red poppies for all those brave people who, like my father and grandfather, served and continue to serve. It also contains white poppies, because now, more than ever, we need to work for peace. Diolch. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785496 500 En 2026-11-10T20:53:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=26638&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen I'm pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate and join my colleagues from across the Chamber in paying tribute to the heroes who have served our country. Remembrance brings people together, regardless of their political views or backgrounds. It gives us an opportunity to reflect on the sacrifices made by previous generations and remember those who gave their lives in the defence of our country and freedoms. Most of us will have grown up hearing stories about relatives who served during the first or second world wars. Some returned home and were able to tell those stories themselves. Others rarely spoke about what they'd experienced. Sadly, many never returned at all. In almost every town and village across Wales, there is a war memorial bearing the names of local men that made the ultimate sacrifice. This year marks the one hundred and tenth anniversary of the battle of Mametz Wood, one of the most significant events in Welsh military history. In July 1916, the 38th (Welsh) Division fought to capture Mametz Wood during the battle of the Somme. The fighting was fierce and more than 4,000 Welsh soldiers were killed, wounded or reported missing. Many of those men had come from small rural communities, industrial towns and villages throughout Wales. Llywydd, while preparing for this debate, I came across an account of the battle written by Sergeant Thomas Phillips of the 16th Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers. He describes dodging sniper fire and trying to maintain communications in the chaos of battle. One particular sentence stood out to me. He wrote, 'The chief messages required to be sent were for more and more stretcher bearers'. Just imagine being there, seeing your friends and fellow soldiers wounded around you and knowing that so many of them would never return home. I find it difficult to comprehend what those young men went through. It makes me think of my own family. I've mentioned previously in this Chamber that both my brothers are currently serving in the British armed forces. I cannot begin to tell you how incredibly proud I am of them, proud of the decision they made to serve our country, proud of the commitment they have shown and proud of the sacrifices they make as part of their service. But as anybody with loved ones in the armed forces will understand, that pride always comes with worry. When somebody you love serves in the military, you understand that the risks are real. You understand that they may be called upon to put themselves in harm's way and that their families must live with that possibility. I think that gives me a very personal appreciation of what remembrance means. I look at my brothers, and I'm immensely grateful for the men and women who served before them, those who made the ultimate sacrifice and those who continue to serve alongside them today. I want my children and, one day, my grandchildren to grow up knowing that our family proudly served in the British armed forces. I want them to understand what that service represents, the responsibility, the courage and the willingness to put the safety of others before your own. I want them to be as proud of their uncles as I am. But above all, I want them to understand why we remember. Remembrance isn't about looking back at events from 100 years ago. It is about recognising that there are families in Wales today who continue to make sacrifices in the service of our country. It's about remembering the families whose loved ones never came home. Llywydd, I also believe that we have a responsibility to look after those who return from military service as touched on by other Members today. For many veterans, adjusting to civilian life can be difficult. Some live with physical injuries, while others struggle with their mental health or the lasting effects of traumatic experiences. We should never accept a situation where somebody who has served our country finds themselves homeless or struggling to access the support they need. It is easy for politicians to stand up in November and express their gratitude to our armed forces. But that gratitude must mean something throughout the rest of the year as well. I would also like to thank the Royal British Legion and the many veterans organisations and volunteers working across Wales. They do tremendous work supporting former service personnel and their families, as well as ensuring that future generations understand the importance of remembrance. Every November, people gather around war memorials in towns and villages across Wales. Veterans, serving personnel, cadets, schoolchildren and families all stand together to pay their respects. I believe we have a duty to ensure that this continues for generations to come. As the years pass, there are fewer people left who can tell us about the two world wars from their own experiences. It falls to us to preserve their memories and pass their stories on. As we mark Armistice Day tomorrow, I'll be thinking of my brothers and all of those who continue to serve this country. But I'll also be thinking of those who served before them: the young men who went to Mametz Wood, the soldiers who landed on the beaches of Normandy and the generations of British service men and women who have defended our freedoms. We are fortunate to live in a country where we enjoy freedoms that previous generations fought to protect. Those freedoms came at an enormous human cost. While I am immensely proud that my brothers serve our country, I'll be forever grateful to those families who gave their sons and daughters and never saw them come home. May we never forget them. We will remember them. Diolch yn fawr. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785506 501 En 2026-11-10T20:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=26702&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785538 502 En 2026-11-10T20:59:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=26943&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav I'm really glad that we get the opportunity to recognise the enduring importance of remembrance to communities all over Wales. As we remember those who served in our armed forces, we must also recognise the millions of ordinary working people from across the Commonwealth who answered the call to serve. More than 1.7 million service men and women from over 150 countries and territories fought alongside British forces during the first and second world wars. Many later then settled here in Wales and helped shape the communities that we know today. Indeed, the very land on which this Senedd stands was shaped by the generations of people from around the world who made Wales their home. The dockland communities of Cardiff brought together people of African, Caribbean, Arab and Asian heritage alongside communities from across many nations. Just a stone's throw away from here stands the merchant navy memorial, commemorating the 1,700 men from Cardiff, Barry and Penarth who lost their lives while serving during the two world wars. We should also of course remember the extraordinary contribution of Indian soldiers, more than 3 million volunteers from the Indian subcontinent who served during the two world wars and played a pivotal role—many people from all communities, all faiths, including many from my own family. So, like for many of us, this isn't just a matter of history; many of these soldiers were people just like members of our own family. So, while I reflect on the service, I think of the sons, the daughters, the husbands, the fathers who left their homes and loved ones behind, not knowing if they would ever return—some, of course, carrying the scars; many never returned  at all. I also want to pay tribute, of course, to Patti Flynn of Butetown, who spent 26 years campaigning to ensure that the sacrifices of Black and ethnic minority servicemen and servicewomen were properly recognised. Her efforts helped ensure that the memorial at Alexandra Gardens honours those from Wales and across the Commonwealth who served and gave their lives in wartime. Over the weekend, I joined members of the community in Whitchurch and Taff's Well to pay our respects to all of the servicemen and servicewomen whose lives have been lost to war, and to think of the lives being shaped by conflict today. The message was not only one of remembrance, but of peace. The sermon reflected on how poppies grow from tiny seeds, and reminded us that lasting peace also begins with seeds that we plant ourselves in our communities, in our schools, in our workplaces, and amongst our own families. That message is as relevant today as it ever has been. As the trade union movement has long recognised, remembrance is also about honouring ordinary working people who left the mines, the factories, the railways, the docks and the farms to serve on the front line, and that really is the true reflection of the human cost of war. So, as we remember those who gave their lives, let us also remember the genuinely diverse communities across the Commonwealth, including those who settled here in Wales, who stood shoulder to shoulder with their British comrades and made the ultimate sacrifice. Their contribution is an important part of our shared history and deserves to be recognised in all acts of remembrance, lest we forget. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785556 503 En 2026-11-10T21:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27002&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785562 504 Cy 2026-11-10T21:02:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27153&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I thank all Members for their contributions to this debate. I now call on the Cabinet Minister to reply to the debate. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785564 505 Cy 2026-11-10T21:02:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27163&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality Williams, Sioned Thank you very much, Llywydd, and thank you to everyone for their contributions. I would particularly like to thank those Members who are veterans, like Gaz Thomas and Art Wright. Your voices here and your experience and your perspective are important and enrich us as a Senedd. Likewise, many Members, like Gwyn Williams and Helen Jenner, have close family links with those who are currently serving in the armed forces. And of course, we heard from a number of Members who have family members and friends who were lost to or injured by war. I think it's an important point on the fact that we are now losing that lived connection with the second world war and those who served in that war. Those stories are important, and it's important for us to remember and keep those stories alive. I remember I had a neighbour when I was growing up in Cwmbrân, Mick, and he had been a prisoner of war in Japan, and he shared a number of stories with me—but not every one, of course; some were too horrific to voice. Thank you to the Members too who addressed the need to ensure the care and support that our veterans deserve and the importance of remembering the contribution of everyone who has served—including, of course, soldiers from the Commonwealth and black and minority ethnic communities. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785582 506 En 2026-11-10T21:04:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27266&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned This day is an important occasion in our national calendar and I'm really grateful that the motion for this debate was agreed by consensus across the party groups. I think that that is really important, and I think the unity of the Senedd this evening reflects the importance of remembrance to communities across Wales in all their diversity, honouring service and sacrifice, recognising those who support our armed forces community and expressing our shared hope for a peaceful future. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785581 507 Cy 2026-11-10T21:04:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27299&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned As Members of this Senedd, with our rich diversity of beliefs and backgrounds, we come together to remember in a spirit of shared compassion, and, as we think about the sacrifice of everyone who has suffered harm and loss and who continue to serve, we come together to commit to creating a world that is safer, where words can achieve more than weapons, and where remembering the losses of the past and the pain of war encourages us to work for peace every day. Thank you. Wales remembers. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785584 508 Cy 2026-11-10T21:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27302&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785604 509 En 2026-11-10T21:05:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27358&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785596 510 Cy 2026-11-10T21:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27302&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you very much to everyone. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785602 511 Cy 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance I Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785603 512 Cy 2026-11-10T21:05:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16422?startPos=27357&l=en 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw And that brings today's proceedings to a close. 16422 7 2026-11-10T13:30:02 785605 513 Cy 261110-11 10. Debate: Remembrance I The meeting ended at 21:06.