Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Welcome, Members, to the public session of this virtual meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitutional Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I've determined that the public are excluded from the committee's meeting in order to protect public health. In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for this meeting. The meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptations relating to conducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements remain in place. We have a full committee in attendance today, and the usual housekeeping rules apply. Are there any declarations of interest? I don't see any declarations of interest, so I move straight on to item 3.

We move on to the Education (Admission Appeals Arrangements) (Wales) (Coronavirus) (Amendment) (Amendment) Regulations 2020. These regulations further amend the 2020 regulations of the same name, which themselves amended the Education (Admission Appeals Arrangements) (Wales) Regulations 2005. The regulations before us change the existing amendment regulations such that they continue to have effect until 30 September 2021. I don't think there are any issues the lawyers want to raise. Is that correct? In which case, any comments or observations? No, I don't see any, so we note that.

I'll move on to item 4, then. We move on to the Official Feed and Food Controls (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2020. Members have before them the report, the regulations and the detailed explanatory memorandum. The regulations amend three instruments relating to food and feed hygiene and controls. They allow for the further implementation and enforcement of EU implementing and delegated regulations on official controls and other official activities performed to ensure the application of food and feed law. Can I go over to the lawyers for some reports?

Diolch. There are two technical points. The first notes an incorrect cross-reference in the Welsh text, and the second point notes an inconsistency between the Welsh and the English text. The Welsh text in one place includes a little more detail as to the meaning of 'operator' than the English text.

Okay, well, thank you for that. Any comments or observations from Members? I don't see any, so move on to the next item, which is the Firefighters' Pension Schemes and Compensation Scheme (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2020. These regulations make various amendments to several instruments relating to the firefighters' pension and compensation schemes. Gareth.

There is one merits point, which notes that these regulations give effect to a Supreme Court judgment. That judgment required pension benefits payable to surviving civil partners and surviving same-sex spouses to be brought in line with the benefits payable to surviving widows of opposite-sex marriages, and the regulations also remove provisions that discriminate against unmarried scheme members, again as required by the judgment. 

This was an area of considerable legislation, going all the way to the Supreme Court eventually, and these regulations are now the outcome and the implementation of that, as Gareth has reported. Any comments or observations from Members?

In which case we move on to the next item, 4.3, which is the Planning Applications (Temporary Modifications and Disapplication) (No. 3) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Order 2020. The Order amends the Town and Country Planning (Development and Management Procedure) (Wales) Order 2012 and the Developments of National Significance (Procedure) (Wales) Order 2016. Article 2 of the Order amends the 2012 Order to extend the emergency period during which the publicity and notice requirements for pre-application consultation are modified. It also extends the emergency period for the purpose of the time that community councils have to make representations on applications notified to them. Article 3 of the Order amends the 2016 Order to extend the period during which hard copies of applications for developments of national significance are not required. And in both cases, the new period ends on 8 October 2021. Over to the lawyers for comment.

There is one merits point, which notes that the Welsh Government has not formally consulted on these regulations, which the Government says is because of limited time and the need for the amendments to be made immediately. And the merits point also notes that there is a detailed explanatory memorandum, which includes a commitment to formally consult on a long-term solution. 

Okay, thank you for that. Any comments or observations then? No, I don't see any on that. Thank you for that report, Gareth. 

We move on now to item 4.4, the Meat Preparations (Amendment and Transitory Modification) (Wales) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021. We have the relevant papers before the Members, including a letter from the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd dated 5 January 2021. These regulations temporarily suspend the requirement for meat
preparations imported into Wales from establishments situated in the European economic area member states, the Faroe Islands, Greenland or Switzerland to be deep frozen. This provision is transitionary. The explanatory memorandum notes that, in line with the UK Government's border operating model, the UK will introduce a requirement for imports of animal products from the EU to be accompanied by export health certificates and with the conditions therein. Decisions on these conditions from April 2021 will be taken within the governance arrangements of the animal health and welfare common framework. Over to the lawyers for a report. 

There is one merits point noting a breach of the 21-day rule, and the Welsh Government explains that there is a need for these regulations to come into force as soon as possible to allow chilled meat imports into Wales, so that the food supply chain is maintained. And England and Scotland are making equivalent changes, so there is alignment across Great Britain. 

Thank you for that. Any comments or observations? No, so we move on to item 4.5, made-affirmative resolution instruments. We have the Official Controls (Animals, Feed and Food, Plant Health Fees etc.) (Wales) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020. Accompanied with the papers is the letter from the Minister for the Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs of 23 December 2020. These regulations are made under powers in Schedule 7 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. They address failures of retained EU law to operate effectively, and other deficiencies arising from the United Kingdom withdrawal from the European Union. The amendments made by the regulations make corrections relating to the operability of the Trade in Animals and Related Products (Wales) Regulations 2011, and the Official Controls (Animals, Feed and Food, Plant Health Fees etc.) (Wales) Regulations 2020. The Plenary debate in respect of these regulations is scheduled for the following week, 26 January 2021. Over to you, Gareth, to report.

The draft report notes that the made-affirmative procedure, which is the urgent procedure, is being used rather than the negative procedure, because the Welsh Government says there is urgency in making these regulations. These regulations are linked to the previous regulations under agenda item 4.4. These regulations include an enabling power that allowed the previous regulations to be made. So, without these regulations coming into force quickly, the previous regulations allowing chilled meat imports could not also have been made quickly. 

Okay. Any comments, observations? I don't see any. We move on, then, to item 4.6. We have two sets of regulations that are to be debated in Plenary tomorrow, on 19 January. The first of these is the Public Health (Protection from Eviction) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2021. Again, we have the report, the regulations, the explanatory memorandum, and the letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government of 6 January 2021. And, of course, there was the written statement of 8 January 2021. The regulations re-enact the Public Health (Protection from Eviction) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020; these are regulations that expired on 11 January 2021. As such, these regulations came into force on 11 January 2021 and expire at the end of the day on 31 March 2021. And what they do is they prevent, except in specified circumstances, attendance at a dwelling-house for the purpose of executing a writ or warrant of possession or of restitution or delivering a notice of eviction. Over to you, Gareth, to report.  

There are three merits points, which reflect familiar issues regarding justification for any interference with human rights and consultation. The fourth merits point notes that this is an extension of previous policy to limit the ability of landlords to seek possession of their property for unpaid rent, and therefore asks the Welsh Government to explain what financial support is being made available to landlords who may themselves find themselves in financial difficulty.

A Government response was received on Friday, which refers to the early alert scheme, which is designed to support tenants at the first sign they are struggling to pay rent or bills, and that scheme helps tenants establish affordable repayment schemes with landlords. There is also a tenancy saver loan scheme to help tenants in arrears or struggling to pay rent as a result of the pandemic, and those loans are paid directly to landlords, repayable by tenants over up to five years. The Welsh Government says it has maintained regular engagement with representative bodies of both landlords and tenants to address issues arising from the pandemic.

Thank you, Gareth. Any comments or observations from Members? Yes, David.

I think this is something we need to constantly keep an eye on, because the main organisation here, the National Residential Landlords Association—if I've got that right now; it's recently changed and two have merged—do say there have been weaknesses in the consultation procedures. Now, where the truth lies between those two statements—what the Welsh Government say and what the landlords organisation says—is not for us to determine, but we do need robust procedures. Landlords are such a wide spectrum, from people owning one property to, obviously, large companies providing services, so it has quite a big impact, and people can become almost accidental landlords if they've inherited a property and then they've been encouraged, before sale perhaps, to rent it out; that's an efficient use of housing. There are a lot of very human stories here, and I think it is something that we need to be aware of in terms of the impact of the pandemic and suspending the current processes where eviction notices are served and action is taken against people who have refused to pay rent or have not been able to come to terms some way or the other. I think tenants have to be the first group we protect—obviously, it is a home—but there are knock-on issues here, particularly at the smaller end, I think, with those landlords that have small portfolios, because there they could really be exposed if we don't consult effectively and give every practical assistance. I do acknowledge something has been done—obviously, this is a policy issue—to assess that, but I would have hoped that there would have been more evidence of really careful consultation with the main landlords organisation.

We can make those points in the debate tomorrow and so on. Any other comments or observations? I think those points are well made. It's actually the diversity of landlords. We tend to focus on the corporate side, but it is a very diverse area. But, obviously, there's the public health aspect in respect of these regulations. 

If there are no other comments or observations, we move on, then, to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Restrictions) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2021. These regulations amend the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (Wales) Regulations 2020 and the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) Regulations 2020. They retain the additional restrictions already in place in relation to South Africa and extend them to other southern African countries. Over to the lawyers to report.

There is one technical point, which notes an inconsistency between the Welsh and English texts, and this inconsistency is particularly important, because the list of closed premises in the Welsh text was different to the list of closed premises in the English text. And I say 'was', because the Welsh Government has already corrected the error in regulations that were made on Friday. The draft report also raises familiar merits points and notes one minor error in the footnote in the regulations.

Okay. Well, thank you for that. Any other comments or observations? I don't see any. So, we can move on, then, to item 4.8, which is the Non-Domestic Rating (Multiplier) (Wales) Order 2021. This Order sets the non-domestic rating multiplier for the financial year 2021-22. In relation to Wales, the non-domestic rating multiplier is calculated in accordance with paragraph 3B of Schedule 7 to the Local Government Finance Act 1988 for each financial year when new rating lists are not being compiled. New rating lists are not being compiled for the financial year beginning on 1 April 2021. The Plenary debate in respect of the Order is scheduled for 9 February 2021. Over to you, Gareth.

There is one merits point, which notes the importance of this Order and its effect on annual local government revenue settlements. And in case Members are having a feeling of déjà vu, an almost identical Order was made a few weeks ago with a multiplier of 292.6. Since then, the Government has decided to change the multiplier to 291.0; otherwise, the Order is exactly the same as the Order from a few weeks ago.

Any Members want to comment or express experiences of déjà vu? No. Well, thank you for that, Gareth.

We move on, then, to the next item—5.1, I believe—which is the Digital Health and Care Wales (Establishment and Membership) Order 2020. We have the report and we have the Welsh Government response. We considered these regulations on 11 January and we laid our report on the same day, so, really, we're just being invited to note the Welsh Government's response, which has been received, and, of course, note the comments with regard to Welsh language resource and the procedural aspects that they refer to. Gareth, anything from the lawyers? No. Any comments or observations from the Members? Okay.

Let's move on, then, to the Digital Health and Care Wales (Membership and Procedure) Regulations 2020. Again, we considered these on 11 January and we laid our report the same day, so, really, just to note the Welsh Government's response, which has since been received. Are there any comments on that? No. We've all seen that. Okay. We've noted those points.

We move on to the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2020. Again, we considered these regulations on 11 January; we laid our report the same day. Welsh Government response to the reporting points was circulated to Members in advance of the Plenary debate last week, and we're now just formally invited to note the response. So, we can note that. Any comments or observations? No, there's nothing there.

Then, we move on to item 6, subordinate legislation that raises issues to be reported to the Assembly under Standing Order 21.7. We have the Political Parties Campaign Expenditure (Senedd Elections) Code of Practice 2020. The code of practice gives guidance as to what does or does not fall within paragraphs 1 and 2 of Schedule 8 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. Those paragraphs are relevant to the definition of 'campaign expenditure' and in particular to what expenses a political party is required to report. The code was prepared by the Electoral Commission. It was submitted to the Welsh Ministers for approval, and it will be issued by the Minister for Housing and Local Government. There are some matters to report. Over to you, Gareth.

There are two points raised in the draft report. The first notes that a couple of paragraphs in the code appear to offer an oversimplification of the applicable law. For example, paragraph 1.24 of the code summarises the conditions that determine expenditure that is treated as campaign expenditure. However, the draft report also notes that the summary in the code will not override the more detailed law set out in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. The Welsh Government response, received on Friday, appreciates the point raised, but also says that the code itself is clear enough that the actual law is as set out in the 2000 Act. 

The second point notes that there are differences between the consultation version of the code and the code laid before the Senedd. The Welsh Government response says that the changes were made by the Electoral Commission following consultation. Had the changes been made by the Welsh Ministers, then they would have had to lay a statement before the Senedd of the reasons for the changes, but because the changes were made by the Electoral Commission no such statement is needed.

Okay. Any comments or observations? No, I don't see any on that.

In which case, we move on to the next item. Thank you for that, Gareth—sorry. We move on to the next item, 7.1, the Framework for the Free Flow of Non-Personal Data (Revocation) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021. The Welsh Government’s statement notes that there is disagreement between the UK Government and the Welsh Government as to whether this matter currently falls within the legislative competence of the Senedd. Nevertheless, the statement notes that the Welsh Government has consented to the making of these regulations as there is no divergence between the Welsh Government and the UK Government on the policy for correction. Are there any comments?

Could I just add that while the trade and co-operation agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union now deals with the exchange of non-personal data, and all Governments of the United Kingdom will have to comply with and implement that international agreement, it doesn't, of course, address the underlying disagreement as to whether this area is devolved?

Okay. Are there any other comments or observations? No. Thank you for making that point, Gareth. I move on, then, to item 7.2, the International Waste Shipments (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021. Again, the Welsh Government’s statement gives notification that it has consented to the making of these regulations for reasons of efficiency and expediency. Are there any comments or observations? No, I don’t see any.

We move on to item 7.3, the Official Controls (Animals, Feed and Food, Plant Health etc) (Amendment) (EU Exit) (No.2) Regulations 2020. The Welsh Government’s statement, which Members have, gives notification that it has consented to the making of these regulations. The statement notes that consent was given for reasons of efficiency and expediency, and to ensure consistency and coherence of the statute book. It also notes that the concurrent functions contained in the regulations have the potential to engage the consent requirements in Schedule 7B to the Government of Wales Act 2006 and, as such, represent a potential restriction on the future competence of the Senedd. The statement also adds that assurances have been provided by the Secretary of State for Wales in relation to a section 109 Order under the 2006 Act to amend Schedule 7B to negate the potential restriction on the future competence of the Senedd. Gareth.

Just to note that that Order in Council is the Order in Council that the committee scrutinised and reported on last week. Therefore, the Senedd will be free to remove the Secretary of State element of these concurrent functions, if the Senedd wishes to do so, once the Order in Council is actually made.

Okay, well, thanks for that; that's helpful to know. Are there any comments or observations? No.

We move on to item 8, the legislative consent memorandum on the Trade Bill. We have the supplementary legislative consent memorandum and the letters from the Counsel General of 11 January 2021 and, of course, of 13 January 2021. We're invited to note the supplementary legislative consent memorandum No. 3, which has been laid in respect of the Trade Bill, and the letter from the Counsel General, et cetera. Again, I think we're all aware that the Senedd voted on a legislative consent motion in respect of the Bill last week. Gareth, are there any comments? No. Are there any other comments or observations? Okay, thank you for that. 

Moving on, then, to item 9, papers to note, we have the correspondence from the Minister for Education on the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill. Really, we're just invited to note those letters, which respond, in fact, to our report on the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill. I think six of the recommendations are accepted in full or in part by the Welsh Government. Are there any comments or observations? I don't see any.

Item 9.2 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government on the Public Health (Protection from Eviction) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020. Again, we're just noting the letter from the Minister, which responds to a query that we raised in consideration of the regulations. If there are any issues, we can, perhaps, raise these in the private session. 

If there are no other comments or observations, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi), I invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Do the Members agree? I see that that's agreed. We will now move into private session.