Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Yn ôl i Chwilio

Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol

Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee


Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Lee Waters AC
Mandy Jones AC
Mick Antoniw AC Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor
Committee Chair

Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a oedd yn bresennol

National Assembly for Wales Officials in Attendance

Gareth Howells Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
P Gareth Williams Clerc
Ruth Hatton Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk
Sarah Sargent Clerc

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 14:30.

The meeting began at 14:30.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau, dirprwyon a datganiadau o fuddiant
1. Introduction, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

Welcome to the meeting of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. The usual housekeeping rules apply. I have apologies from Dawn Bowden, Suzy Davies and Dai Lloyd. Are there any declarations of interest? If there aren't any, we'll move straight on with the agenda.

2. Offerynnau nad ydynt yn cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 na 21.3 ond sydd â goblygiadau o ganlyniad i ymadawiad y DU â'r UE
2. Instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 but have implications as a result of the UK exiting the EU

Item 2: instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 but have implications as a result of the UK exiting the European Union, negative resolution instruments. We have the Plant Health (Wales) Order 2018. This is an Order that replaces the Plant Health (Wales) Order 2006 and the Plant Health (Phytophthora ramorum) (Wales) Order 2006 and it implements European Union plant health legislation in relation to Wales. The Order implements various EU obligations in respect of plant health law, and therefore this Order will form part of retained EU law after exit day. I might just ask, first of all, are there any comments from the lawyers?

Only to add that the inter-governmenal agreement between the Welsh Government and UK Government says that this kind of area is likely to be an area subject to common frameworks after exit.

3. Datganiad Ysgrifenedig gan Lywodraeth Cymru: Hygyrchedd Cyfraith Cymru
3. Welsh Government Written Statement: Accessibility of Welsh Law

Then, we move on to item 3, which is the Welsh Government written statement on the accessibility of Welsh law. There's a written statement issued by the Counsel General for Wales announcing a series of initiatives to make Welsh law more accessible. Any comments on the statement, or is it just there to be noted? This follows on, obviously, from a number of discussions we've had about codification of law and change of promulgation of the law.

4. SL(5)257 - Rheoliadau Meysydd Tref a Phentref (Datganiadau Perchnogion Tir) (Cymru) 2018 - Gohebiaeth
4. SL(5)257 - The Town and Village Greens (Landowner Statements) (Wales) Regulations 2018 - Correspondence

We move on to item 4: the Town and Village Greens (Landowner Statements) (Wales) Regulations 2018. There's a letter to the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs, which raised concerns and the public interest issues with regard to privacy and so on, and we have the letter in response. Any comments on that?

Only to note that since the Welsh Government letter, the Welsh Government has actually laid amending regulations before the Assembly that would revoke the original regulations with which we had concern, and the new regulations set out what would seem to be a much more proportionate requirement as far as the public register goes, and those regulations will come before the committee for the usual scrutiny.

The issue was with the requirement to publish certain personal details in respect of the landowners. There's been a change to that in respect of the objections made, but there is still some requirement, which is argued on a public interest issue, which I don't see any issue with.

No, but in terms of the register and the record, it's as set out in the letter as to what would be provided, and the rationale for allowing some of that, because it's a public interest in actually having some of those details.

Yes. The point was well made. Paper 4 is a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs dated 17 October 2018. This is also on the village greens issue. This is actually the matter that we've just dealt with, isn't it? 

Sorry, I beg your pardon. I'm just looking at a narrative. No, we've dealt with that adequately.

5. Papurau i'w nodi
5. Papers to note

Moving on to item 5, then, papers to note. On the school organisation code, we have a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education of 11 October 2018. I'll just ask the lawyers for any comments on that, first of all.

Only to say that the letter is quite self-explanatory; it confirms that a children's rights impact assessment was carried out when drafting the school organisation code and that impact assessment has been included, attached to the letter.

And, is there an issue on article 12? I note that Suzy Davies has raised an issue with me with regard to the specific failure to mention article 12 in the children's rights section. What she says is that she would have expected a statement acknowledging the children's voice to be heard on decisions affecting them. We can, of course, write and just ask why article 12 hasn't been referred to within the impact statements, and then that will come back to us at the next meeting. Is that okay?


Okay. We then move on to item 6, I think—have I got that right? Which one have I missed? I beg your pardon—5.2, the Education (Student Loans) (Repayment) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2018. We have a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education of 12 October 2018. It's on page 19 of the bundle. Any comments from the lawyers?

Just to say, again, the committee noted a lack of information around consultation in the explanatory memorandum that came with these regulations, and the Welsh Government letter accepts that it should have published more details of the consultation at an earlier stage.

So, that's been, more or less, recognised, hasn't it—the point that was raised? So, we note that.

And then we move on to the Education (Student Support) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018—a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education, 12 October. Any comments on that? We note that.

Then we move on to item 5.4: the Food and Rural Affairs (Miscellaneous Revocations) Regulations 2018—a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs, dated 16 October 2018. This was a point we raised with regard to the Welsh language usage and there's a response there. Any comments on that? Any comments from the lawyers? No. Note that.

Item 5.5: changes to Standing Orders relating to section 116C Orders in Council, and we have a letter to the Leader of the House and Chief Whip of 8 October 2018 and a letter from the Leader of the House and Chief Whip, dated 16 October 2018. Could I suggest that we discuss this in private session?

Okay. Moving on to the next item, which is item 5.6: Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill—a letter from the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care of 17 October. This relates to the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill. It provides an update in relation to recommendation 4 of this committee's report about placing the childcare offer on the face of the Bill. The Bill, of course, completed Stage 2 last week. It makes a number of concessions in accordance with points that this committee specifically raised. Any comments? Just note that? Anything from the lawyers? No. Okay.

6. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod
6. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting


bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).


that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

That takes us, I think, now on to a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to meet in private. Is that moved?

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 14:38.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 14:38.

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