Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Good afternoon, everyone. This is a meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. We move straight on to item 1. The usual housekeeping rules apply. We have a full committee. Are there any declarations of interest? If there are not, we'll move straight on to the agenda. We have a number of matters to consider—a fairly detailed draft report in private session later on on the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Bill, which we need to consider.

So, we go straight on to item 2, then, the Care and Support (Charging) (Wales) and Land Registration Rules (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2020. We have before us the report, regulations, and the explanatory memorandum. These regulations amend the Care and Support (Charging) (Wales) Regulations 2015 and the Land Registration Rules 2003. The 2015 regulations set out the requirements that local authorities must follow when making a determination of the amount of the charges that apply in relation to care and support that they are providing or arranging, or propose to provide or arrange, in the course of carrying out their functions under Part 4 of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. Now, there have been a number of technical and merits points identified.

Yes. The draft report raises one technical point and two merits points, and these start on pack page 2. The technical point raises an issue with cross-referencing. So, one of the amending provisions in these regulations refers to a regulation being amended, rather than the specific paragraph within the regulation, of which there are three paragraphs. The Welsh Government response notes the point, however, it is satisfied that the provision as drafted is clear and will have the required legislative effect. Now, whilst it is possible to work out from the context which paragraph is being amended, this is inconsistent with previous amending regulations and an earlier amending provision within these same regulations.

The first merits point raises a query about clarity and why amendments to Schedule 4 of the Land Registration Rules 2003 have been dealt with in an illogical way. Whilst the Welsh Government accepts the point, it considers that the provision will still have the required legislative effect. And the second merits point notes the uplifts in the amount authorities can charge a person for the non-residential support they receive, and the increase in the level of minimum weekly income a person in residential care is entitled to retain, and how these regulations ensure there is a consistent maximum amount that a local authority can make for these.

Okay. And you have, I think, in front of you the Government response, which is basically the technical scrutiny point noted. However, the Government consider the provision as drafted is clear and will have the required legislative effect. And then the merits point is also noted: Welsh Government consider the provision as drafted will have the required legislative effect. Shall we just note those points? Okay.

We move on, then, to 2.2, the Social Care Wales (Specification of Social Care Workers) (Registration) (Amendment) Regulations 2020. The Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016 requires Social Care Wales to keep a register of social workers and social care workers of any description specified by the Welsh Ministers in regulations. The Social Care Wales (Specification of Social Care Workers) (Registration) Regulations 2016 specify descriptions of social care workers for whom a register must be kept. These regulations amend the 2016 regulations. I think there's an issue with regard to consistency in Welsh and English text.

Yes, that's correct. The technical point in the draft report starts on pack page 17. It notes an inconsistency between the English and Welsh texts in the explanatory part of the regulations, and that the word 'drafft' is missing from the heading of the Welsh text. The Welsh Government notes the inconsistencies. It states that this occurred due to issues of version control and that procedures are being put in place to reduce the risk of this happening again.

Okay. Shall we note that? 

Yes.

Right. 2.3, then, the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016 and Regulated Services (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2020. These regulations make a number of amendments relating to the oversight of regulated service provider organisations, and registration of the domiciliary support workforce. Again, there's a slight error that has been identified. Of course, the Plenary debate in respect of this is going to be on 10 March. The slight error identified—?

Yes, it was a point noting that the title of the regulations was incorrect in a couple of places in the explanatory memorandum. The Welsh Government accepted the point, and they have laid a corrected memorandum.

Okay, that's good to note. So, do we note that?

Yes.

We move on to item 3. We're on to the—

Sorry, can I just ask a question real quick?

Please.

Because this one is subject to the draft affirmative procedure, have we had any further detail on what happens next from the Government's perspective?

In what way?

Well, if it's subject to the draft affirmative procedure—. This one isn't going to Plenary, then?

Yes, 10 March.

We've got a date for it, all right.

Sorry, yes, 10 March it goes forward. There'll be a debate in the Assembly on that date.

The code of practice on the exercise of social services functions in relation to Part 4 (direct payments and choice of accommodation) and Part 5 (charging and financial assessment) of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. This code of practice is issued under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. It covers a number of issues, including designing a charging policy, charging for care and support in a care home, choice of accommodation when arranging care in a care home, and charging for care and support in the community. Are there any comments or any issues? 

I'm guessing this is going off to a different policy committee as well, isn't it, this one?

It will be, yes. Do we know that it has gone to another committee? I presume it has.

It may go to the health committee. The health committee will be aware of it. It will be a matter for them to decide whether to look at it further.

Yes, okay. 

Item 4, subordinate legislation that raises issues to be reported to the Assembly under Standing Order 21.7. We have the code of practice in relation to the performance and improvement of social services in Wales. Again, we have the report, the code of practice and the explanatory memorandum. This code of practice applies to the exercise of social services functions by local authorities in Wales. It sets out how improvement in services and for individuals will be supported, measured and sustained by local authorities. Again, there are a number of items to report on this.

Yes, there are two reporting points on the draft report, starting on pack page 87. The first point asks why a data protection impact assessment has not been carried out when the code places a heavy focus on the collection, use and sharing of data in order to improve social services in Wales. The Government response indicates that an impact assessment has not been carried out because the information to be shared and collected in accordance with the code is limited to numerical data and does not identify any individuals. However, there is no mention in the code or the explanatory memorandum that the data to be collected and shared in accordance with the code is limited to numerical data. The second point notes that the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, under which this code of practice is issued, was made by the National Assembly for Wales and not, as the explanatory memorandum states, by the Welsh Government.

And have we had any response in respect of that?

Yes, sorry. The Government's response was that the impact assessment has not been carried out. 

I beg your pardon. Okay. Anything further on that? No further comments or observations.

Apologies. My question wondering about 'Will this go to another committee?' wasn't directed to this. I had skipped on one, sorry.

Right. Okay. 

So, we then move on to item 5, just to note the Welsh Government statement: legislation related to leaving the EU. This starts at pack page 110. That is a statement that impacts on the work we are doing, particularly with regard to Sewel. There are issues that arise from it, because it does vary to some extent from the evidence from the Counsel General in respect of Sewel. What I suggest is that we discuss this in private session in due course. 

Item 5.2, letter from the Minister for Economy and Transport, the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs and the Minister for Education: update on inter-governmental relations. You'll see the list of the various meetings that have taken place. Any comments or observations? 

Okay, that takes us to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi), invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Do Members agree? 

Agree. 

Agreed. We move into private session.