Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Yn ôl i Chwilio

Y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol

Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee

04/12/2017

Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Dai Lloyd AC
David Melding AC
Mick Antoniw AC
Nathan Gill AC

Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a oedd yn bresennol

National Assembly for Wales Officials in Attendance

Alys Thomas Ymchwilydd
Researcher
Gareth Howells Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
P Gareth Williams Clerc
Clerk
Tanwen Summers Ail Glerc
Second Clerk

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 14:30.

The meeting began at 14:30.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau, dirprwyon a datganiadau o fuddiant
1. Introduction, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

I'll open the committee meeting now. Welcome to the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. Item 1 is introduction and apologies. Any declarations of interest? Do we have any apologies? No. I see there are none.

2. Offerynnau nad ydynt yn cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 na 21.3
2. Instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3

We move on to item 2, items that raise no reporting issues under Standing Orders 21.2 or 21.3. And that takes us on to the regulated affirmative resolution instruments. The Regulated Services (Service Providers and Responsible Individuals) (Wales) Regulations 2017. I think, Dai, you will have been involved in the scrutiny of this on the health committee. Are there any comments to be made? 

No. Nothing from legal? No. Okay. So, we can note that and the report to the Assembly.

3. Offerynnau sy'n cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt i’r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 neu 21.3
3. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Assembly under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3

Item 3: instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Assembly under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. We have a negative instrument: the Seed (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2017, and you have a number of documents before you, including the regulations, explanatory memorandum, report and the Welsh Government response. There are some merit points and implications arising from the UK exiting the EU to consider in the draft report. Any comments, legal?

Just on the merits points quickly, there's early implementation of an EU directive. The directive requires certain changes to apply from 1 January 2018, and these regulations apply the changes from 15 December 2017. There is late implementation of a European Commission decision. The decision applied from 1 April 2017, but it is only now being applied in Wales. The Government responses are on pack page 11.

4. Offerynnau nad ydynt yn cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 na 21.3 ond sydd â goblygiadau o ganlyniad i'r DU yn gadael yr UE
4. Instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 but have implications as a result of the UK exiting the EU

Item 4 is instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 but have implications as a result of the UK exiting the EU. We're on the Novel Foods (Wales) Regulations 2017. Again, you have the regulations, explanatory memorandum and report. I invite the lawyers to make any legal comments.

These regulations are another example of legislation that has an EU context. The regulations are made by the Welsh Ministers and will form part of retained EU law on exit. As the withdrawal Bill is drafted, the Welsh Ministers are given powers to modify such retained EU law, and the UK Ministers are also given powers to amend such retained EU law, even in devolved areas.

There's also a relevant regulation made at EU level in this area, and that EU regulation will also form part of retained EU law, but the Welsh Ministers are not given powers to amend EU legislation made at EU level. In those cases, the UK Ministers are given powers to amend EU law made at EU level, even in devolved areas. And, of course, the Assembly has to comply with retained EU law, so, if the Welsh Ministers or the UK Ministers modify any retained EU law, then that will affect the Assembly's competence. So, in effect, the Assembly's competence will be defined by Executive action either of the Welsh Ministers or the UK Ministers. 

Okay. Are there any Members' comments on that? Otherwise, we will note that.

5. Papurau i'w nodi
5. Papers to note

Moving on to item 5—I think is the next item—which is papers to note. We have the House of Commons Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee report 'Devolution and Exiting the EU and Clause 11 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill' to consider. There are a number of points within the report that are worth specifically paying attention to. I think paragraphs 42 and 43 are particularly relevant to our inquiry into institutional relations. Those are the paragraphs that refer specifically to the lack of communication and established mechanisms for both proper consultation and shared decision making between Governments. Also, the further conclusion of that report is that an effective system of intergovernmental relations is the missing aspect of the current UK constitutional arrangements, and the dispute around clause 11 brings this issue into sharp focus, and that a set of effective relationships based on mutual trust and effective communication and consultation are essential for the internal governance of the UK. Of course, some of these are matters that are actually being debated in Westminster, as amendments to the withdrawal Bill, at this very moment. So, this is open to any comments that anyone wants to make. No? We then just note that very interesting report.

14:35
6. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o'r cyfarfod
6. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the meeting

Cynnig:

bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).

Motion:

that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Moving on to item 6, which is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to meet in private. Do Members agree?

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 14:35.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 14:35.

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